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Colinx
01-07-2008, 15:37
Although I appear to be in a flat solid state minority, I hope the membership can nudge me in the right direction in my quest for a replqacement pre-amp.

I am currently using a Rega Cursa/exon set up, and although will keep the Cursa, would like to try a more open sounding in pre in front. I have had the use (short term) of a croft built box (vitale or viagra or some such) and although it did some of the sonic things I would like to have, and did show that the exon's can live with a much better pre, it also had some little foibles that although I could live with, the rest of the family could not. Little sillies, such as having two gain knobs rather than 1 etc.

What pre amps, up to say £1500 (new or used) should I be looking around for. I want something that lets a bit more soundstage through, but does not take away Rega's basic ''play the bloody music'' attitude. I don't much care if its valve or SS, but would prefer it not to have a Naim in the name. I suppose what I really want is Rega to build a better pre. In fact a pre built to match the new phono stage would be spot on.

Mike
01-07-2008, 16:36
Phew... £1500 should give you a pretty wide range of options, especially in the used market!

Where do we start? :scratch:

Might help if you gave some idea's about what sort of sound you're looking for and what facilities you need.

scoobs
01-07-2008, 16:39
I would suggest sampling an NVA rig...AP80a integrated, or pre /power. Whatever folk say about the ol' muppet, his amps are bloody good, you simply won't find better SS at the price...IMO.

Colinx
01-07-2008, 17:36
I am currently using a modified Rega P25, Denon DL110 or 103 cart, Rega phone stages (mm built into cursa) or MC phone stage, Cursa 3 pre, pair of exon monoblocks, Rega Saturn, and Radio 3, Spendor S5e speakers, strung together with Chord Cobra I/C's and Van Damme speaker cables (10 metre runs) .

With the exception of the deck and the pre I am more than happy with the systems at the moment, the deck will have stay for a while, I know what I want, but until I have 3K to spare the 25 will do.

The Cursa is not a bad pre, but I am aware of its shortcomings, I want to keep the basics that the Cursa has, good drive, evan handed, it is I suppose to some people a 'thin & stripped down' sound, which I suppose could be a fair description, but it suits us, and the system has a good balance at the moment. I suppose what I want is more of the same, a Cursa on steroids. Just a touch more soundstage width and depth, a little more space around instruments.

I have tried and was not particularly impressed by Linn, Naim, Ayre, Copland, Prima Lunar and Quad, either as pairs with their own power amps, or in front of other power amps, (few places have exons kicking around). Not impressed by is the wrong phrase, Yes they were good, and in some cases very good, and I can understand why they are chosen, but if they had the air and space, then they seemed a tad polite, if they had the balls, then they lacked the other stuff.
It could well be that my dealer is right, and I am just one of those people who latch onto what Rega does, and nothing else will do it, and I will just have to wait for the signature series to include a pre (if it ever does- speculation on his part)

The croft was probably the nearest to the sound, certainly sorted the sound stage thing, but as a practical piece of kit to be used by a family it smacked of being a bit hair shirt.

Mike
01-07-2008, 17:51
Hmm... well I have an idea. Are you in a hurry?

Colinx
01-07-2008, 18:07
No, not really

Mike
01-07-2008, 18:16
OK, I've got one in mind that might be a bit 'left field'. I'm flitting in and out doing a BBQ at the moment, so I'll explain a bit later if that's OK?

(Sorry, gone a bit 'Marco' there!) :lolsign:

Cheers,
Mike.

Colinx
01-07-2008, 19:34
Not at all, I'm in between various meal bits and pieces myself, (who made fish bones that small?)

Neil McCauley
02-07-2008, 08:45
........... would like to try a more open sounding in pre in front. What pre amps, up to say £1500 (new or used) should I be looking around for. I want something that lets a bit more soundstage through, but does not take away Rega's basic ''play the bloody music'' attitude.

Based on the above, then from the vintage era, I suggest the Audio Research SP11. In terms of spaciousness, and I base my suggestion on direct personal experience rather than hearsay, this specific model is a, if not the reference standard - even today. Bass is a bit soggy though. This should fit within your budget.

Guideline prices for used Audio Research can be seen here:

http://prices.listencarefully.co.uk/

As an aside, and out of your current budget, my personal choice, from today's market, in the LFD LineStage3 - as this has the fastest, most coherent and credible bass performance I've yet encountered. However, it isn't as spacious at the old SP11.

In the pursuit of a unit that may, just may combine the attributes of both, I'm considering a Manley Neo-Classic 300B valve pre.


---//---

Colinx
02-07-2008, 09:35
Thanks for that, would it matter which of the variants of SP11?, it appears there are 3, a SP11, SP11 revised, and Mk II.

Just to show how technically inept I can be, having tracked down the odd photograph of the SP11, it seems that the pre takes it power feed from the power, I assume this can be replaced by some kind of power supply?

Neil McCauley
02-07-2008, 09:52
Thanks for that, would it matter which of the variants of SP11?, it appears there are 3, a SP11, SP11 revised, and Mk II.

Just to show how technically inept I can be, having tracked down the odd photograph of the SP11, it seems that the pre takes it power feed from the power, I assume this can be replaced by some kind of power supply?

Hi. I've not had direct personal experience of the variants, if indeed there are variants. It's a sad fact of audiophile life that some sellers, either with an over-active imagination, or perhaps to try and mislead through adding value, invent so called upgrades. I'm unclear if this is the case here though.

My suggestion would be to find the official Audio Research website and look for a vintage section and/or email them as to the product evolution of the SP11.

Incidentally, the SP11 is a two-box unit and what you might have thought was the power amp is in fact the power supply.

There is, as you can see, some 'homework' for you to do. Worth it though in the long run.


---//---

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
02-07-2008, 10:31
Try this link;

http://www.arcdb.ws/

I would also give consideration to the ARC LS15 unless you require a phono stage, and also the Modwright SWL 9.0, with either standard or Valve Rectified PS.

Andy - SDDW

Alan
02-07-2008, 10:39
I would suggest sampling an NVA rig...AP80a integrated, or pre /power. Whatever folk say about the ol' muppet, his amps are bloody good, you simply won't find better SS at the price...IMO.


Amen.:)

Mike
02-07-2008, 11:43
Well my suggestion would be a World Designs WDPre3 and it's associated PSU. These are available as a kit or fully built and tested, theres some info here:

http://wduk.worldomain.net/acatalog/AmpKits.html

I'm hoping to get one myself in the near future and was thinking 'North Linconshire' is not far from me. I'd be happy to bring mine down to you for you try in your own system.

Have a look on the link above and see if this might interest you, alternatively, you could pop over to the WD forum and ask if there's anyone near you who has one. There are plenty of friendly and helpful folk on there.

Cheers,
Mike.

*EDIT* I should add that I am very firmly of the opinion that WD products offer a level of performance that is WAY beyond their price point and put commercial products that are several times the price, well and truly to shame! And I am NOT joking!

John
02-07-2008, 15:14
If you willing to do down the passive route the music first is pretty special. Also consider the SAC Invincible Preamplifier The transformers are all hand wound and sounds amazing.

lurcher
02-07-2008, 18:37
I would also give consideration to the ARC LS15 unless you require a phono stage, and also the Modwright SWL 9.0, with either standard or Valve Rectified PS.


I have been using a Modwright LS36.5 for the last week or so, and I have to admit its doing something rather special.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
02-07-2008, 18:41
Hi Lurcher
That's the pre I currently use and have done for the past 9 months. You are correct in that it does do 'something rather special'

Andy - SDDW

Mike
02-07-2008, 18:46
I've heard it... Agreed! :)

Colinx
02-07-2008, 19:09
at that price I would expect it to be a pre amp, cook breakfast and wash the car on sunday.

Mike
02-07-2008, 19:30
at that price I would expect it to be a pre amp, cook breakfast and wash the car on sunday.

Then perhaps I could nudge you in the direction of the WD option? ;)

I'd be more than happy to build it for you, for the (IMHO) very resonable price of, err, nothing!... I really do enjoy that sort of thing! :)

Colinx
02-07-2008, 19:38
I'll have a look into the WD, making generous gestures such as that could prove to be time consuming, especially when I thought a soldering iron was a leccy screwdriver.

Mike
02-07-2008, 19:54
Believe me... it is no idle offer. I would gladly let you hear 'mine' (I don't have one yet) first (hence the 'are you in a hurry'? question), and the performance of their gear is astonishing!

I openly admit that I have not heard a WD Pre3 yet, but it is widely acknowledged to be the 'jewel in the crown' of the range. I have NO qualms about buying one!

From what others who have built one have said, it would take little more than a weekend to get one up and running. And I really do enjoy this sort of stuff so much that I'd be more than happy to do the honours. Alternatively, WD will build one for you at a cost or £125 for the Pre-amp and £100 for the PSU.

I must stress though, that in all things HiFi, there is nothing like a home dem.

ATB
Mike.

Colinx
02-07-2008, 20:10
It really is a generous offer, when you have built yours let me know if the offer still stands, at some mutually agreable bribery level, and in the meantime i'll get over to the WD forum and see if any one more local has them.

RobHolt
03-07-2008, 00:44
I'd echo the recommendations for World Designs.
I used their Pre II for a couple of years and still use the Phono II as I've not heard anything better.

The kits are great value if you can build them but you can buy them built and tested.

The transformer output on the Pre II gives it an advantage over many valve pre amps as it can drive long/capacitive cables or low input impedance power amps.

Colinx
03-07-2008, 05:47
I'd echo the recommendations for World Designs.
I used their Pre II for a couple of years and still use the Phono II as I've not heard anything better.

The kits are great value if you can build them but you can buy them built and tested.

The transformer output on the Pre II gives it an advantage over many valve pre amps as it can drive long/capacitive cables or low input impedance power amps.

That's an interesting point, my room is laid out with the speakers on the 'end' wall and the kit on the other end wall, behind the main listening seat. It suits the room, but means i am using 10 metre + speaker leads. Would the WD drive I/C's of that length properly, allowing me to stand the monoblocks next to the speakers. If so would long I/C's and short speaker leads be better than long speaker leads and short I/C's?