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MartinT
23-08-2010, 01:58
So what do forum members know about flat screen TVs? I've decided to replace my venerable Sony Bravia KDL-W40A12U with something more modern supporting the full HD resolution.

Criteria: 40-42" size, best picture quality in 1080i and 1080p modes for feeding from Sky HD and Blu-ray. Don't care about standard def, don't care about looks, will never use the built-in sound. Don't need Freeview or games mode. Prefer network connection for firmware updates and media streaming. Must be able to wall hang.

Shortlist so far: Panasonic TX-P42G20B and Sony KDL-40NX803. Have seen both of these and the Panny edges the Sony for picture quality but the Sony has better network facilities. Any others I should consider?

Alex_UK
23-08-2010, 08:21
I have a 5 year old Panasonic plasma which has been fantastic. Way behind in the features stakes now but has been utterly reliable, and the picture is as good as ever. That said, the Sony should be built like a tank too. The Sony KDL-40HX703 has just won a WHFS&V Supertest (1050) and has the same 200hz refresh that the one you looked at has, and is said to be great for motion. They also said the picture benefited from being set-up with a THX optimiser disk and with the ambient sensor off, so the same may apply to the one you've looked at.

The Panasonic looks to be quite a bit cheaper, though at 800? (The best price I could find for the Sony KDL-40NX803 was 1250.) If it was my money I'd save the cash and have the extra 2"!

Dave Cawley
23-08-2010, 08:29
I have a 50" 1080p LG, it's crap, can't even display straight vertical lines.

Dave

Rare Bird
23-08-2010, 08:36
I have one of the first Samsung LCD's still going strong with a great picture.I'll replace this when it breaks down..

Ali Tait
23-08-2010, 09:22
How about the new full led from Samsung is it? Or LG,can't remember.If not the Panny Vieras are very good IMO.

MartinT
23-08-2010, 09:25
I have a 50" 1080p LG, it's crap, can't even display straight vertical lines.

Funny you should say that, Dave, I was at a friend's house recently and they have a 42" LG LCD set. It's the worst panel TV I've seen with awful upsampling from SD pictures. There were so many digital artifacts that I tried in vain to adjust it for a better picture but couldn't.

The Vinyl Adventure
23-08-2010, 09:26
I sell both those tv's, I'd go for the panny... Although I prefered the g10, the g20 is trying to hard to be an LCD in my eyes I still don't get the unnatural retina burning LCD image.... I might be able to sort you out a good price on one too Martin ... I think I owe you a favour for the train station runs :)

MartinT
23-08-2010, 09:27
The Panasonic looks to be quite a bit cheaper, though at 800? (The best price I could find for the Sony KDL-40NX803 was 1250.) If it was my money I'd save the cash and have the extra 2"!

The Sony is very good indeed but critically lost a little to the Panny in black level & contrast when I saw them yesterday. It's hard therefore, as you say, to justify the extra even though I'd like to stay with Sony.

Love their TVs, hate their laptops!

MartinT
23-08-2010, 09:30
I sell both those tv's, I'd go for the panny... Although I prefered the g10, the g20 is trying to hard to be an LCD in my eyes I still don't get the unnatural retina burning LCD image.... I might be able to sort you out a good price on one too Martin ... I think I owe you a favour for the train station runs :)

Thanks Hamish, that's good to know. I did like the G20 a lot and, interestingly, the more expensive V20 didn't look any better.

I have 280 of Amazon vouchers to use and their price of 799 looks very competitive, but I appreciate the offer. Ruth wants a Blu-ray player so maybe I could come to you when she's ready?

MartinT
23-08-2010, 09:33
How about the new full led from Samsung is it? Or LG,can't remember.If not the Panny Vieras are very good IMO.

I couldn't find it anywhere, Ali, but I believe it is still an LCD panel with full LED backlighting?

Ali Tait
23-08-2010, 09:37
Not sure Martin,I've just seen it advertised on tv.Supposed to be good though I imagine not cheap at the moment.

The Vinyl Adventure
23-08-2010, 10:36
Thanks Hamish, that's good to know. I did like the G20 a lot and, interestingly, the more expensive V20 didn't look any better.

I have 280 of Amazon vouchers to use and their price of 799 looks very competitive, but I appreciate the offer. Ruth wants a Blu-ray player so maybe I could come to you when she's ready?

see if you can find a g10 and have a look at the picture on that, its less possessed than a g20 ...

that's fine buddy, i am always open to trying to work out good prices for the people on here ... i cant always beat everyone online but we usually have a trick up our selves to make the deal better one way or another ... for eg we have 5 year g'tee on the pannys at the moment... .... ..... ...... but i do understand that 280 of amazn vouchers is gonna override that :)

Reid Malenfant
23-08-2010, 16:28
All the LED TVs are LCD panels with LED backlights ;) The LEDs are simply much easier to control the brightness of than the standard cold cathode tubes used in most LCD TVs :)

If you are interested in aan LED TV to get the best contrast (I have seen 5,000,000:1 advertised) then you'll need to know that there are two systems in use :scratch: One type is edge lit, the other uses a much larger bunch of LEDS but directly behind the screen (i think it might be know as "area lit").

With the edge lit LEDS the whole or better part of the screen will darken when a good portion of the screen is displaying black. Where as the area lit LED TV will only darken the area that is displaying black (with possibly a little spillover).

This makes the area lit screen much better simply because it'll display a much higher native contrast ratio than an edge lit screen where damn near everything dims down :eyebrows:

Most shop assistants probably won't have a clue about this & unless you find a real specialist shop they are usually full of monkeys being paid peanuts :lol:


Can i ask why you specify a 40" - 42" screen?

MartinT
23-08-2010, 22:51
Can i ask why you specify a 40" - 42" screen?

Because my current set is 40" and is sized appropriately, although I could use another 2" (what man couldn't). The plasma displays still outperform the edge/full LED backlit screens to my eyes.

Anyway, perish the thought that a TV could dominate my room. That role is already adequately performed by my speakers :)

goraman
23-08-2010, 23:36
Unless you are wall mounting it,look at the Samsung or Mitsubishi DLP picture ia awsome and there not to bright like a LCD or needs to be in an under ground cave like a plasma.

and less expencive too...

The Vinyl Adventure
24-08-2010, 05:14
All the LED TVs are LCD panels with LED backlights ;) The LEDs are simply much easier to control the brightness of than the standard cold cathode tubes used in most LCD TVs :)

If you are interested in aan LED TV to get the best contrast (I have seen 5,000,000:1 advertised) then you'll need to know that there are two systems in use :scratch: One type is edge lit, the other uses a much larger bunch of LEDS but directly behind the screen (i think it might be know as "area lit").

With the edge lit LEDS the whole or better part of the screen will darken when a good portion of the screen is displaying black. Where as the area lit LED TV will only darken the area that is displaying black (with possibly a little spillover).

This makes the area lit screen much better simply because it'll display a much higher native contrast ratio than an edge lit screen where damn near everything dims down :eyebrows:

Most shop assistants probably won't have a clue about this & unless you find a real specialist shop they are usually full of monkeys being paid peanuts :lol:



We still have to fight with the "I've seen an led tv up at Currys" - "led backlit", "no they said it was led", "yeah, it led light used as the backlight" - "no the said this was an led tv, don't you have any led tv's here" convo .... It's like banging ya head against a wall

retro
24-08-2010, 08:06
Martin,surf a little over this (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/reviews.php)site.
I think they are really objective.At least I thought so when I was in your position two years ago.
And tip for you,after a month or two of using your new TV make calibration (with calibrator like Spyder,Eye...) or a pay someone to do it.Worth every penny.

Regards

MartinT
24-08-2010, 08:25
Thanks, Robert. That review and a German review that I put through Google translate are both very comprehensive and have told me what I need to know. Combined with actually seeing the Panny & Sony sets over the weekend, I have pretty much made up my mind to get a TX-P42G20.

I am waiting for one of my Amazon vouchers to arrive. Meanwhile they are playing silly buggers by pricing it one day at 799 and another at 749. It has changed price four times in the last week! I need to catch it at the right time...

I was looking at the Eye One calibrator and thought I might invest. The forums suggest that setting the Panny to THX mode takes it to not far off perfect settings for picture quality.

retro
24-08-2010, 17:16
Thanks, Robert. That review and a German review that I put through Google translate are both very comprehensive and have told me what I need to know. Combined with actually seeing the Panny & Sony sets over the weekend, I have pretty much made up my mind to get a TX-P42G20.

I am waiting for one of my Amazon vouchers to arrive. Meanwhile they are playing silly buggers by pricing it one day at 799 and another at 749. It has changed price four times in the last week! I need to catch it at the right time...

I was looking at the Eye One calibrator and thought I might invest. The forums suggest that setting the Panny to THX mode takes it to not far off perfect settings for picture quality.

I am glad you are thinking of the calibrator,and Eye One is good one.I have purchased Spyder 3 Elite.
Do not think twice about buying it.I bet you have a few Tv set,PC monitor...at home.Their calibration costs more than Eye One.Plus you can earn some extra money in your area ;)
I would not bet that the same two models of TV have the same settings.Settings can vary greatly.
To make your life easier (while you wait for tv) a few links for calibration from my bookmarks:

GREYSCALE & COLOUR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES (http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457)
AVS forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=139)
HCFR Colormeter (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php)

Hope that helps,
Regards

Reid Malenfant
24-08-2010, 17:30
Because my current set is 40" and is sized appropriately, although I could use another 2" (what man couldn't). The plasma displays still outperform the edge/full LED backlit screens to my eyes.

Anyway, perish the thought that a TV could dominate my room. That role is already adequately performed by my speakers :)
Ah, ok fair enough :)

I was going to suggest something a little different though :eyebrows: I was just wondering if the TV height was a problem as i know my 42" Toshiba is quite a size height wise. I don't use my TV for anything other than monitoring, usually just blu rays & occasionally DVDs. Having owned this TV i'll never go back to a standard 16/9 2501

Just remember it's the same kind of height as a 42" (http://www.richersounds.com/product/lcd-tv/philips/56pfl9954/phil-56pfl9954) & in all honesty (& i'm not the only one who has said this round here) it really does fit well with the way humans actually visualise things :eyebrows:

It's even cheaper then when i bought mine :doh: When i agreed to buy one they were 3000, i got mine for 2000 with a free 5 year warranty ;) Best money i ever spent in my life :cool:

MartinT
24-08-2010, 17:40
I love 21:9 in the cinema, but do you really get enough broadcast and disc media in that format to make it worthwhile (and I don't mean by cutting top & bottom off the image)?

MartinT
24-08-2010, 17:41
Do not think twice about buying it.I bet you have a few Tv set,PC monitor...at home.Their calibration costs more than Eye One.Plus you can earn some extra money in your area ;)

Cheers, appreciate the tip and the links.

Reid Malenfant
24-08-2010, 17:52
I love 21:9 in the cinema, but do you really get enough broadcast and disc media in that format to make it worthwhile (and I don't mean by cutting top & bottom off the image)?
Hi Martin, every one of your 2.35:1 - 2.40:1 films will fill that TV screen ;) You can choose not to scale up in which case a 1.77:1 & 1.85:1 image will have black bars either side of the image, making it the same size as an image on a 42".

I'll be honest though & say that most stuff of that aspect ratio i still scale up to fill the screen, yes i may loose a bit at the top & bottom, but all the real action is in towards the middle of the screen & i have never had anyones head cut off.

If you think avatar looks good in 1.85:1 then you'll be gobsmacked (like i was & still am) with it scaled up to 2560 pixels wide :)

Honestly, i'd cry at having to go back to a 16/9 TV - this just looks so right. Ok, so the contrast ratio is only 80,000:1 (but it's still good) but this is the worlds fastest LCD panel with a 1ms response time. It shows to, turn off the perfect pixel & 200Hz & just let the TV scale.

Frankly it doesn't matter if the TV pops in a year or so either. The 5 year warranty states that if it can't be repaired then the same kind of spec TV will be supplied. Philips are bring out a 3D version of this panel & as it's (at the moment) the only 21/9 TV then what do you think the replacement would be when these go out of production :lolsign:

Ali Tait
24-08-2010, 17:53
It's not all good.A review of that Philips tv-

http://www.igizmo.co.uk/articles/blogs/954-home-entertainment-world-isnt-ready-219-cinema-tv

Reid Malenfant
24-08-2010, 17:55
It's not all good.A review of that Philips tv-

http://www.igizmo.co.uk/articles/blogs/954-home-entertainment-world-isnt-ready-219-cinema-tv
Ali, i own one is all i can say :eyebrows:

Once it's set up correctly, IE calibrated it's a winner. No review i have read has done the thing justice.

No i don't work for Philips ;)

Ali Tait
24-08-2010, 18:00
Fair enough! I would like to have a look at one.

Reid Malenfant
24-08-2010, 18:08
Fair enough! I would like to have a look at one.
Take it from me that any picture you might get to look at on one in a shop will be rubbish compared to what the thing can do when calibrated & run on a good blu ray player ;)

I know the reviews go on a bit about the scaling & it switching between different modes, i actually looked into this before i purchased one. It is simply a case of selecting which mode you want it on rather than leaving it on auto :lol:

I have set the ambilight up to reproduce the same effect as D65 backlighting & i don't use the adaptive settings as this distorts the proper screen colours as you'd see them. It's an optical illusion but it's real to us..

I don't want an LED TV or a plasma unless they use this 21/9 panel. It's as simple as that :) If i was given one i'd sell it to buy another of these :trust:

chris@panteg
25-08-2010, 11:11
Just catching up with this thread ! Mark that looks to be an awesome TV , i can understand why you like it , if your a film fan and want recreate that cinema experience , then it has to be one of these or a projection system .

Ali Tait
25-08-2010, 12:05
Mark,what's it like with broadcasts?

Reid Malenfant
25-08-2010, 14:57
Just catching up with this thread ! Mark that looks to be an awesome TV , i can understand why you like it , if your a film fan and want recreate that cinema experience , then it has to be one of these or a projection system .
I happen to have a 1080P projector as well :eyebrows: Lets just say though that it hasn't been switched on since the TV was set up, the screen size is 120" & yet it i haven't been tempted to fire it up :scratch:

Mark,what's it like with broadcasts?
Ali i honestly couldn't tell you chap, it has never had an aerial plugged into it, let alone me bothering to tune anything in :eyebrows:

As i say, i don't watch TV, it's just a monitor :) Trying to convince TV licensing of this was rather difficult though, that reminds me i still haven't had the expected visit from Herr Inspector :lol: I was informed someone will come & visit to check - fine, that was May :rolleyes:

MartinT
25-08-2010, 16:46
Well I've just got home to find my 200 Amazon voucher had arrived (thanks Amex), together with an 80 one I already had (thanks Nectar). This morning the Panny had reverted to 799 but this evening it was back down to 749 so I keyed in the quickest order you could imagine and it's on its way.

I'm looking forward to receiving and setting up my Panasonic TX-P42G20B and I'll report my findings. Now to enjoy the last of my (sob) loyal Sony before I eBay it off.

Reid Malenfant
25-08-2010, 17:12
Don't sell it too quickly Martin ;)

Run the Panny for at least a week or two to make sure it gets over the infant mortality stage (bathtub curve) :)

MartinT
25-08-2010, 17:38
Will do ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
25-08-2010, 18:46
Nice work Martin, I'm jealous, it's a very nice tv that you have bought, I was ogling the one in the shop today... 998 on the price tag in the shop, so I think you have done extremely well!

chris@panteg
26-08-2010, 06:49
Impressive TV ' great spec, they have along with pioneer kept plasma going , Sony ditched it years back but still a great picture and better motion .
And i don't mean those you get after a night on Old Hooky either;)

Mark Grant
26-08-2010, 09:02
it was back down to 749

Thats a great price :)

I have installed a few G20 for customers and they are always good.

If you need a wall bracket these are good quality and reasonable:
http://www.m-formonline.co.uk/index.php

http://www.m-formonline.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=31&Itemid=26

The 32" to 42" super slim or 32" to 52" univesal are reasonable price, flush and sturdy :) I always use them on installs.

Mark.

Alex_UK
26-08-2010, 12:49
Ah, ok fair enough :)

I was going to suggest something a little different though :eyebrows: I was just wondering if the TV height was a problem as i know my 42" Toshiba is quite a size height wise. I don't use my TV for anything other than monitoring, usually just blu rays & occasionally DVDs. Having owned this TV i'll never go back to a standard 16/9 2501

Just remember it's the same kind of height as a 42" (http://www.richersounds.com/product/lcd-tv/philips/56pfl9954/phil-56pfl9954) & in all honesty (& i'm not the only one who has said this round here) it really does fit well with the way humans actually visualise things :eyebrows:

It's even cheaper then when i bought mine :doh: When i agreed to buy one they were 3000, i got mine for 2000 with a free 5 year warranty ;) Best money i ever spent in my life :cool:

I've just had a Richer Sounds email advising that they have a bank holiday sale going on - if anyone is after one of the Phillips 21:9 56" displays then hold off until Saturday but don't wait until after the 1st - down another 200 to 1500 this weekend only... wish I had a grand-and-a-half spare... :(

MartinT
26-08-2010, 14:44
It's arriving tomorrow and I've taken the day off <rubs hands with glee> :)

Alex_UK
26-08-2010, 14:52
It's arriving tomorrow and I've taken the day off <rubs hands with glee> :)

Excellent - enjoy it Martin! I'm still regularly astounded at HD on my old Panny plasma even after 5 years and it's only 720P so I think you will be very pleased with your choice. Hope you've got someone to help you hang it - they weigh a bloody ton! Also, as suggested in the "cleaning" thread, absolutely the best thing for keeping the screen clean is Mr Muscle Window & Glass Cleaner, though I doubt you'll have to do it several times a day like I have to, chasing after my Avatar's grubby little mits!

And let's hope the delivery doesn't arrive at 4.45pm! That's usually what happens to me when I take the day off for a delivery!

MartinT
26-08-2010, 15:03
Hope you've got someone to help you hang it - they weigh a bloody ton!

It's not the new one I'm worried about, it's taking the old Sony off the wall. I think it weighs about 40kg and I will be on my own. Yes - I'll be careful!

In order to get to the TV I will have to move all my hi-fi components and the system rack :steam:

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/system.jpg

retro
27-08-2010, 17:26
Any impression? :)

MartinT
27-08-2010, 18:20
It was relatively easy to set up although my wall bracket only just allowed the plugs to clear the wall (my chunky Chord HDMI cables were the most difficult to bend). I've set it up initially for THX picture mode, 1080p from Blu-ray and 1080i from Sky HD with 24p when playing films. I then used the Digital Video Essentials disc to fine-tune brightness, contrast and colour, which only needed fine tweaks to optimise. Sharpness and resolution enhancement turned off, intelligent frames turned on.

What I have is a stable, detailed and highly natural picture of great quality. The improvement is not world shattering, which I think says a lot for that old top of the range Sony set, but everything: detail, colour, contrast & black levels, motion sharpness are all improved.

I'm going back to watch some more HD material. Now, what's the number of that good Chinese take-away...

Reid Malenfant
27-08-2010, 18:27
I then used the Digital Video Essentials disc to fine-tune brightness, contrast and colour, which only needed fine tweaks to optimise. Sharpness and resolution enhancement turned off, intelligent frames turned on.
Cracking disc for setting contrast & brightness as well as colour accuracy. Like your TV mine didn't need a lot of adjustment at all.

Do you have Spears & Munsil high definition benchmark blu ray? Another i'd recommend ;)

If you are interested in how well your player de-interlaces (or the TV for that matter) & how things perform doing rather difficult video i'd recommend the Silicon Optix HD HQV Benchmark blu ray.

Enjoy the TV :)

Ali Tait
27-08-2010, 18:29
Martin,is that Talk Talk colour of spring cd on that little stand?

retro
27-08-2010, 18:53
I see that you were well prepared for a new tv. The entire arsenal of test dvd ;)
Enjoy in popcorn :lolsign:

regards,

MartinT
27-08-2010, 19:35
Martin,is that Talk Talk colour of spring cd on that little stand?

Well spotted! Have a gold star :)

Ali Tait
27-08-2010, 22:06
I love that album!

MartinT
28-08-2010, 13:39
Here's the system with the new Panny as of today. Just enjoyed the F1 Qualy with big picture and big sound (here the Caiman does a wonderful job). Most enjoyable.

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/system2.jpg

chris@panteg
28-08-2010, 13:45
Martin ' you must be very proud of that set up , those speakers still make my jaw drop:) just look at them .

MartinT
28-08-2010, 20:26
I do love my system, Chris. It keeps me happy on a cold wintry night, or any other night for that matter. I have to say that I'm settling in to long term enjoyment with no desire to upgrade anything except the Techie now. The speakers, well, they are really something. I feel very lucky.

MartinT
28-08-2010, 20:29
By the way, Alex, if you could identify the CD on my music stand now I'd be incredibly impressed. Clue: one of my all-time favourite female voices.

chris@panteg
29-08-2010, 00:07
I do love my system, Chris. It keeps me happy on a cold wintry night, or any other night for that matter. I have to say that I'm settling in to long term enjoyment with no desire to upgrade anything except the Techie now. The speakers, well, they are really something. I feel very lucky.

Martin ' upgrade the Techie ? do you want to take it further , are you thinking of an SP10 .

MartinT
29-08-2010, 09:41
No, not replacing it but continuing with the upgrades: Mike New base plate and a new PSU next.

chris@panteg
29-08-2010, 16:48
Bloody addictive ! this Techie modding malarky lol :)