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sburrell
03-08-2010, 21:14
I just picked up a QED Digit Opto with Positron PSU for a _very_ reasonable price, and because I don't have the requisite cable to connect it to my PC's 3.5mm Optical Out, I've swapped out the Beresford and am giving it a test run.

Well, I'm astonished.

First and foremost is the fact I'm noticing a lot in my reference tracks that I previously hadn't. For example, track 2 on The Shawshank Redemption OST ("Shawshank Prison (Stoic Theme)") I was suddenly acutely aware of increased vibrato in the string section—and it wasn't a subtle change.

Track 3 from Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet OST ("Kissing You") placed Des'ree front and centre, and I had a far stronger feeling than ever before of a singer being in the room with me. There was more detail in the piano, and it sounded more realistic.

All of the tracks I listened to on Lemon Jelly's Lemon Jelly.ky contained a lot more detail, and pulled stuff more forward than before. I felt like I was listening to studio monitors compared to before! Once again, stuff I'd never heard before was being produced effortlessly.

On the whole, the front to back soundstage was vastly improved across the board. Instruments seemed more realistic, as did voices (especially voices, actually), and IMHO timing was far improved. I also think the bass was tighter and more controlled.

If anything was wrong, I think there was a little less high-end reach, but I could be wrong. To be honest I'm quite confused now, because everything seems so much more musical, but some songs sound so different too, with different sounds and instruments being given emphasis. There's definitely more detail, that's a given. But I feel as though something has been lost. Maybe it's just more accurate, and I'm not used to how some songs are supposed to sound—I've heard that can happen.

So, this QED Digit Opto was intended for my gaming PC, but now I'm not so sure. Both DAC and PSU come in their original boxes with original parts, packaging and leaflets, and all in excellent nick. And the princely sum? £25 plus a bus across the Firth of Forth @ £4.90 return.

Can anyone chip in and help clarify what these differences are I'm noticing? I honestly didn't expect this purchase to challenge my 7510 but now I'll be spending the next few days (waiting for the 3.5mm TOSlink adapter for the supplied TOSlink cable) deciding which DAC to make my main. All advice welcome!

Thanks for reading :)

DSJR
03-08-2010, 21:31
The Digit was conceived as a textbook Philips Bitstream implentation and was done by Martin Grindrod (the chap who designed those "piddly little computer speakers with inbuilt DAC" :rolleyes: Martin did very little indeed and only took a moderate fee for the work.

I don't know how the Positron supply came about, but it was regarded as a useful upgrade at the time. I remember the two being friendly but not the last word in definition - you think they're good, why not look out for the AVI S2000DAC from the same era - it's in a different league I remember from comparisons at the time... ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
03-08-2010, 22:12
Didn't Richard Dunn have something to do with the positron? Or have I just imagined reading something?
I gave my digit and psu to Dan Jennings, but have recently been looking on eBay for one as I remember liking with my marantz cd6x ki (can't remember which one ... Dan also has that) and my naim kit...

The Vinyl Adventure
03-08-2010, 22:16
Check out this that I missed
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320563384717&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3D R40%26_trksid%3Dp3907.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D32056338 4717%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1#ht_500wt_920

DSJR
03-08-2010, 22:29
Didn't Richard Dunn have something to do with the positron? Or have I just imagined reading something?


RD did his own version and tweaked it to high heaven in his DAC-On model I believe.

Spectral Morn
03-08-2010, 23:00
Didn't Richard Dunn have something to do with the positron? Or have I just imagined reading something?
I gave my digit and psu to Dan Jennings, but have recently been looking on eBay for one as I remember liking with my marantz cd6x ki (can't remember which one ... Dan also has that) and my naim kit...

Yes he did according to the August 1994 HiFi News review of the NVA Emotive Statement CD Player.

The Positron PSU was a Richard Dunn design. The Digit was modded and along with the Positron became the DACON. Richard then developed the Emotive from those foundations. The HiFi News review was fairly positive about the player and I must admit to loving the look of the design and the other Statement pieces but I have never heard any :(

Here is a link http://www.nene-valley-audio.com/frames/nva/archive.html


Regards D S D L

sburrell
04-08-2010, 01:47
@Hamish: Aaw, I thought I got a steal! That one went for 96p less—but then it wasn't an Opto. Guess I'm still happy :)

The Vinyl Adventure
04-08-2010, 10:37
is the opto the same but with a tos link instead of or as well as coax?

Ammonite Audio
04-08-2010, 11:08
Richard Dunn has stated the following on the HiFi Subjectivist Forum and I'm happy to post his clarification/correction to Neil's post above:



I didn't design the Positron and never said I did. What I did was take a standard QED Digit - re output stage it and re power supply it to create the DACon. QED when they heard the difference a bigger PSU made produced the Positron PSU, it was not my design.

sburrell
04-08-2010, 12:24
@Hamish: yes, it's the same only with an additional optical out.

I'm beginning to realise the way in which the QED may be lacking: it doesn't excite me the way the Beresford does. I think it's partly down to the timing---perhaps it keeps too much grip? And what i thought may be a lack of high-scale reach may be a lack of dynamism?

I'm definitely torn. I think each DAC excels in different areas, and I'm going to have to just see which I prefer.

By the way, been very interesting to read about the history of the device. Shame it's not a Richard Dunn design like DSDL thought---despite a certain message-board notoriety his equipment seems highly-regarded, and i was chuffed to think I owned one of his. :)

Well, the side-by-side continues...

DSJR
04-08-2010, 12:28
It wasn't just the low price, but at the time, we regarded the Digit with supply a "nice and cheap" DAC with a "nice and cheap" sound. The better sub £1000 integrated CD players from Arcam, Naim CD3, AVI and Cambridge (the CD2 was ageing by then, but we had one to compare) were rather better as I remember, having far more dynamics and "space between the notes" - less plump colourations..

sburrell
04-08-2010, 14:04
Ah, nice to have my opinion seconded. Means I'm beginning to get a handle on things.

So, what DAC would I be looking at (or what mods for the 7510) if I wanted the detail and timing of the QED, but the dynamics, airiness and scale (and build quality) of the 7510?

Spectral Morn
04-08-2010, 17:28
Richard Dunn has stated the following on the HiFi Subjectivist Forum and I'm happy to post his clarification/correction to Neil's post above:

The information came from an issue of HiFi News...which seemed to suggest that Richard was the designer.

Thank you for the clarification Richard.

Regards D S D L

DSJR
04-08-2010, 18:49
Ah, nice to have my opinion seconded. Means I'm beginning to get a handle on things.

So, what DAC would I be looking at (or what mods for the 7510) if I wanted the detail and timing of the QED, but the dynamics, airiness and scale (and build quality) of the 7510?

Caiman?

The other option which tempts me for low cost DAC work is the MF V-DAC or a Rock-Grotto'd X-DAC V3 which apparently is crying out for good mods...

sburrell
04-08-2010, 19:53
Actually, I think I've decided to pursue a second Positron and perform the dual-supply mod on the QED—I found two complete walkthroughs on Google, including the Hi-Fi World one from June 1993. I'm not in the slightest bit handy with a soldering iron but there's an independent DIYers' electronics shop on the other end of town that I'm sure would be happy to supply the bits and perform the mod. The dual-supply mod, according to Hi-Fi World, "seemed [to give the music] greater energy and life [without being] bright." Also, "its speed and dynamics [throw] the music at you in an unhindered manner." Just what I need! Until I find the second Positron, I'll relegate it to my gaming PC as intended.

@DSJR: The V-DAC was the first DAC that bit the dust in my side-by-side at HiFi Corner—it trails the Beresford 7510 significantly. I think my review was my first ever post here after my intro thread :)

The Vinyl Adventure
04-08-2010, 21:01
Blimey, I thought the v-dac was half decent ... A bit "zingy" maybe
There is a new mf dac that looks interesting

sburrell
05-08-2010, 16:01
Aaargh! Disaster!!! As I mentioned above, I intended to hook the QED up to my gaming PC, and would you credit it: the sound card doesn't output 44.1kHz in the Game mode (requisite for all the fancy game effects, and essential for ambience)! The QED Digit is a 44.1kHz–only design… So, a post has been made on the appropriate forum to see if there's anything I can do to bypass this currently inexplicable decision. It outputs 44.1kHz in other modes, just not the one I need to use…

On a brighter note, the nice chaps at Hifi Corner in Haddington Place have kindly said they'll let me do a side-by-side between the Beresford and the QED through a high-end Bryston system—apparently more exclusive than the Sugden equipment used for the V-DAC vs Beresford test. Very excited! I'll post a review probably next week. Oh, and while we were on the phone, he re-iterated his belief that the Beresford 7510 securely beat the V-DAC for audio quality. I think his words were (in reference to Miles Davis' `Solea': "the Beresford sounded like Miles Davis; the V-DAC sounded like someone imitating Miles Davis."

Bis nächte Woche!

DSJR
05-08-2010, 16:24
Thanks for reply re V-DAC. Perhaps it needs a better power supply too?????????

All this faffing around with the Digit/Positron's is still going to give you a coloured BITSTREAM sound, allbeit, a refined one I reckon...

sburrell
05-08-2010, 23:00
@DSJR: I'll come to the point—it's not "faffing," it's a young man exploring a new world of audio fidelity. A lot of this is new to me, though it clearly isn't to you…

That said, could you direct me to information that backs up your negative view of the BitStream standard? If it really is, as you imply, so undesirable, I'd like to know why.

coloured BITSTREAM sound
I'd have thought that, with my paltry budget, coloured but satisfying is all I could ever hope for regardless of the equipment I bought or how I matched it. In fact, from what I gather from this forum, and others on the topic of hifi, that's all most of us can hope for…

I'm looking even more forward to my side-by-side now, because I'll have an experienced ear next to me helping me understand the differences I'm hearing.

Peace :)

EDIT: I should explain that I took offence at what I perceived as a rather derogatory tone. If I misread, then I'll humbly apologise.

Ali Tait
06-08-2010, 07:23
Simon,if you want any mods doing,bring the dac to me,I'll do them for you.The passive mod is very worthwhile IMO.

DSJR
06-08-2010, 11:28
After the now famous TDA1541 series of DAC chips, the bitstream ones were seen as a cheap and cheerful way of getting a sweeter sound out of walkmans. I understand the chips were rated at 2V working or so and weren't regarded as "proper High Fidelity" at the time.

Of course, Meridian took the chipset and made something of them, but most of us well versed in the previous generations of players and DACs found the sound to be sickly and rather clogged in nature, the Meridian implemtation suffering in the quest to sound more "analogue" than it should. The better the system, the more obviously contrived and coloured this chipset sounded.

The Digit was a wonderful and very inexpensive way of getting nasty CD players with digital outputs to sound half decent and it succeeded admirably IMO. The Positron helped too but I never got involved with the other NVA tweaks.

If you like what you hear, great - ENJOY - but excuse me for being around the industry since the early 70's. Experience and age tends to take the edge off youthful enthusiasm - apologies :peace:

Clive
06-08-2010, 12:14
I agree that Bitstream was generally poor sounding when it was introduced. When these things were current I found the Meridan 203 (bitstream) DAC horribly anaemic compared to the multibit DAC in my Meridian 206.

DSJR
06-08-2010, 13:20
I used Philips CD880 for a few months and it made a lovely transport. The Marantz CD10 and TEAC VRDS10 I also owned were both bitstream players too as I remember and in a stark sounding system, they could inject some "humanity" without sounding soft-n-soggy. The Burr Brown chips soon took over in mainstream players and Marantz returned to their ultimate TDA1541 player, the CD-7, which was the last gasp for this chipset as I remember (and very solidly made too as I recall.

sburrell
06-08-2010, 14:25
@Ali: Crikey, I forgot you lived in Dunfermline. I actually bought the QED from a guy that lives in Carnock just to the west, though I met him at the bus station in Dunfermline.
And thank you for your very kind offer! I'll gratefully accept. So, what's this passive mod you refer to? Sounds interesting. Oh, and I'm assuming you're referring to the QED? Um, would it be presumptuous to ask for your help modding the Beresford too? :)

@DSJR:
Apology accepted. Sorry if, as I'm beginning to believe, I over-reacted.

found the sound to be sickly and rather clogged in nature[…]. The better the system, the more obviously contrived and coloured this chipset sounded.
I appreciate your explanation of the drawbacks. I was considering this last night, and it occurred to me that my main problem is that I don't really have a good idea of what a reference hifi sounds like. When people refer to colour, it's in reference to the ideal, and the truth is I don't truly know what the ideal sound is (in most cases). I'm sure I'll agree with you in due course about the BitStream standard, but at the moment I'm like someone buying burgers from McDonald's who's never had a proper Aberdeen Angus beef burger—tastes fine, even enjoyable, but there is definitely better to be had. Well, I'll get a better idea of the flaws and boons of the QED on Monday…

The Positron helped too but I never got involved with the other NVA tweaks.
From what I've read, the DACon was startlingly good, to the extent that it appeared to embarrass the reviewer when he discovered it was based on what I now understand to have been considered an inferior DAC chip.

they could inject some "humanity"
That's a good way of describing what I'm perceiving, I think. When I swapped the Beresford back in, there was definitely a mellifluousness that was missing in the QED, but the QED still has a lot to commend it.

Ali Tait
06-08-2010, 15:21
I was referring to the Beresford passive mod,but if you have info on the mods required for the QED,get the parts and I'll do it for you.The passive mod on the Beresford makes a big difference IMO,well worth doing,and may change your mind as to which you prefer!

Anyway,if you'd like to hear the difference,bring your dacs over sometime and you can compare to my 7510,and get a listen to the Audio Note too.

sburrell
06-08-2010, 15:37
@Ali: I'm PMed you.

Ali Tait
06-08-2010, 15:53
Replied!

DSJR
07-08-2010, 17:14
Simon, PLEASE may I add that by now, the little Creek 4040 and especially the 601v3'sssssssssssss may need to be replaced with something a little better. The Creek was wonderful in the days when LP's dominated, but the designer distrusted CD with a vengeance and I never felt the 4040 was entirely happy with the format - the 4140 was a lot better, but even now it'd be showing its age. Believe it or not, the current Rega Brio integrated (or a used clamshell era Luna or Mira) would make a relatively inexpensive and MUCH better inexpensive amp for a digital source and that's before I've thought of modern Rotels, Cambridge or Arcam).

I liked and sold plenty of series 1 601's and found they mellowed out nicely after a few years of thrashing. I didn't know the series 3 models very well, but those that clients brought in for dems when they were current almost took one's filllings out, they were so spitty and, well, "metallic" sounding. I thought this a great shame, as the bass and mid were better than ever. Once again, several years of good use may have sweetened the tweeter by now, but I thought I should warn you, as you may just be in danger of balancing one failing against another in the hope of getting a better sound.

Modern budget audio products are often made in the far east and despite coming into the UK for very little indeed, still sound a lot better than much of what went before. People like Rega can still make competitive product in the UK and as there's new stuff coming, their speakers may be advertised at a good price - and their speakers have always sounded lively and very engaging to listen to...

sburrell
07-08-2010, 20:41
Hi DSJR,

I appreciate the input. Unfortunately, as ever, money is tight, so upgrading more of the system is pretty unlikely at the moment. I've got a sailing course to do, and the continuing refurbing of my flat (living room now), not to mention the odd PC upgrade (CPU and RAM at the moment) and another pair of Mark Grant cables.

Balancing aside, I was always told that it's better to have a fantastic source feeding a poorer amp and speakers than a crap source feeding excellent amp and speakers. At the moment, I think there's still some scope for improvement in the front end---the QED proved they can produce far tighter bass than I'm currently getting, for example.

By the way, I hope your "PLEASE" doesn't indicate that you think I no longer welcome your input. If so, you're mistaken.

Man, I can see the bank balance taking a hit soon. :)

DSJR
07-08-2010, 21:30
My bank balance is permanently in the red these days.

If the Caiman sounds a bit safe and maybe a bit "bland," it may be a bit like my memories of the Linn CD12. Unlike the Naim CDS2/XPS, which sounds great into anything, the CD12 sounded very uninteresting into an inexpensive setup. Put the darned thing into summat with real scale and dynamics and the subtlety and genuine sense of "layering" in the mix was nothing short of spectacular with the CD12, the much cheaper Copland 289 sounding more like a CD12 in miniature than Linn's own Ikemi, which sounded two dimensional by comparison..

You may find it worthwhile to look out for some good old classic speakers. There are still one or two "sleepers" out there (KEF 104ab, Concerto, Concord III and IV, B&W DM1, DM2a, DM4) which fleabay hasn't quite yet cottoned on to. AR did some goodies (2ax, 3a, 6, 7 and 48 amongst others), but they need more controlled power IMO and all will need their bass cone surrounds attending to by now.

Please keep these and similar comments in mind when sorting out the DAC situation. I also read today that the V-DAC really does benefit from a bigger power supply.

sburrell
11-08-2010, 21:21
@DSJR: Okay, I've managed to source a second Positron for £40 including P&P. It appears to be a brand-new, end of stock Positron, returned because it was sold as a pair with a malfunctioning Digit. That puts the total, not including the costs of having Ali Tait mod it, at £65 for a DAC for my PC. I guess I should make sure that there isn't something that is definitely available _for the same price_ that I should be buying instead. Whilst there is definitely something I'm enjoying about the Digit, I accept it's based on old technology that was never truly intended for audiophile use.

So, the challenge, should you choose to accept it, is spend £65 (and _no more_, ie. inc. P&P) for a second-hand DAC that is unarguably superior to a twin-PSU modded QED Digit Opto.

Hit me! :)

Oh, PS: there's one thing about the Digit that is demonstrably superior to my ears—positioning. One of the intros to a game I play is a bunch of swirling letters, and the QED far more successfully suggests their movement from left to right, the Beresford FAR less so.

Ali Tait
11-08-2010, 21:31
Try that once the Beresford has had the passive mod.

Alex_UK
11-08-2010, 22:04
Someone really must try the CYP AU-D3 (http://www.froogle.richersounds.com/product/av-interconnects/cyp-(uk)-ltd/au-d3/cyp-aud3) sometime... :eyebrows:

sburrell
12-08-2010, 00:47
Ali, have you seen my thread about that mod? I'm hoping someone (or eventually, Stan) will post the non-destructive version. Knowing that it exists I'm reluctant to sacrifice functionality when it seems there is ultimately no need. But I am excited to hear what the improvement is like :)

Haha, Alex. You're dying for someone to have a wee gamble on it! :) I checked it out when you first mentioned it here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=133902&postcount=4). Unfortunately, What HiFi's review is too luke-warm—they only really talk about it improving over very poor DACs in cheap sources. For my money I'm hoping to get something better. Nice try though ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
12-08-2010, 05:53
I shall see if i can get one on the cheap through one of the supplyers at work if you like Alex ... If i can, il let you borrow it if you want :)

Ali Tait
12-08-2010, 07:02
Ali, have you seen my thread about that mod? I'm hoping someone (or eventually, Stan) will post the non-destructive version. Knowing that it exists I'm reluctant to sacrifice functionaliity when it seems there is ultimately no need. But I am excited to hear what the improvement is like :)

Haha, Alex. You're dying for someone to have a wee gamble on it! :) I checked it out when you first mentioned it here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=133902&postcount=4). Unfortunately, What HiFi's review is too luke-warm—they only really talk about it improving over very poor DACs in cheap sources. For my money I'm hoping to get something better. Nice try though ;)

Sorry can't help with that,that's one for Stan.As for the passive
mod,as I said,it's easily reversible,and you said you don't use the variable out,so not a problem.I can show you how to reverse it in the future if you wish to,very easy to do.

The Vinyl Adventure
12-08-2010, 08:53
I shall see if i can get one on the cheap through one of the supplyers at work if you like Alex ... If i can, il let you borrow it if you want :)

we would have to get stuff direct from them and need to set up a acount i think so i cant be arsed

they do some interesting bits and bobs though
adc/dac http://www.cypeurope.com/Audience/AU-D9-Bi-directional-Digital/Analogue-Audio-Converter.html
could be usefull for those people who want to use a beresford with a turntable

DSJR
12-08-2010, 10:14
Haven't a clue here, but the original Cambridge DacMagic may be worth a look second hand and also the Colloms designed (IIRC) MF Digilog.

I never got the chance to hear the twin-power Digit-Positron, so if it's doing the job for you, then "Brilliant" is what I'd say. I mean, my hodge-podge lash-up has been patronised to high heaven elsewhere as it really belongs in a museum (to those who've moved on to little active speakers with built-in DAC's - you know the ones :)), but I don't care as it gives me huge pleasure and cost next to nothing :)

Alex_UK
12-08-2010, 10:19
Unfortunately, What HiFi's review is too luke-warm—they only really talk about it improving over very poor DACs in cheap sources. For my money I'm hoping to get something better. Nice try though ;)

You must have read a different review to the one I found then, there's no mention of "very poor Dacs" or "cheap sources" in this 4 star review (http://www.whathifi.com/Review/CYP-AU-D3-DAC/)


Great for budget Blu-ray decks
Given the price, it’s no surprise that the CYP has its limits, and the internal DAC of a half-decent CD player or AV receiver will produce better results.

However, if you’re running a budget Blu-ray or DVD player, or a Sky HD box, into a stereo amp, this is a neat and affordable way to coax out far more punch, detail and dynamics.

As they say, it will be bettered by a "half-decent CD player or AV receiver" (but I suppose anyone's guess what "half decent" equates too, £500?) I would expect a bang up to date chip (can't find what it is, though) to outperform old technology or a sound card, but of course new doesn't always equal better!

Can you post a link up to the "luke-warm" one you're referring to, or was it only in the magazine?

Alex_UK
12-08-2010, 10:30
we would have to get stuff direct from them and need to set up a acount i think so i cant be arsed

they do some interesting bits and bobs though
adc/dac http://www.cypeurope.com/Audience/AU-D9-Bi-directional-Digital/Analogue-Audio-Converter.html
could be usefull for those people who want to use a beresford with a turntable

Fair point matey, I understand! If I had a use for one, I'd buy one, but at the moment I don't really need anything, unless I used it in my office system, which is a definite possibility in the future, but I'd rather spend 40 quid on vinyl at the moment! :eyebrows:

I'm just curious as to how good this would sound for what really is peanuts in the grand scheme of things... maybe I should just put my money where my mouth is and then stop going on about it! ;)

Puffin
12-08-2010, 11:27
Pity there is no information on the net as to which chips it uses.

sburrell
12-08-2010, 14:13
Sorry, Alex, I was referring to the same review as you, I think I just interpreted it more negatively. I know it got four stars, but their words seemed so cagey. What I heard, essentially, was: it's an improvement over budget sources, but only because budget-source DACs are crap.

@DSJR: I haven't actually purchased the second Positron yet, I was waiting to get opinions on equivalent DACs. All of a sudden I've got to spend £240 on a Dinghy course, so I'm feeling the pinch and becoming super-cautious about my purchases! :)

Alex_UK
12-08-2010, 15:01
Sorry, Alex, I was referring to the same review as you, I think I just interpreted it more negatively. I know it got four stars, but their words seemed so cagey. What I heard, essentially, was: it's an improvement over budget sources, but only because budget-source DACs are crap.

Ah, ok, no worries. Guess I'm always a "glass half full" kind of guy! ;)

I think you've nutshelled it correctly, and there may well be not much of an improvement with the CYP unless it is a really nasty DAC in the component.

I've actually thought of a use for it now... The AV input on my amp is connected to the Analogue output of my telly via a 5m phono lead, which I don't really use, as I have a 5m optical lead from my PS3 and Sky HD box to my Caiman, which a bit annoyingly I have to swap over when I change sources - (and then at the other end by the Caiman, a switch box so that I can swap between the 5m lead and a 1m one from my Xbox360 which is set up with the hifi with it's own monitor that it shares with my music computer) - all a bit Heath Robinson, really. I could use a CYP from either the Sky Box or PS3 and then feed that into the AV input via the phono plug, which would save faffing around behind the telly changing plugs. Not a huge issue really, but would give me the opportunity to try one out and report back. I'll order one a bit nearer pay day or after I get my credit card bill...

DSJR
12-08-2010, 16:54
DAC chipsets are peanuts these days and it's really basic implentation, facilities, casework and profit that decides the costs. No reason a plastic cased DAC with basic facilities and a cheap wall-wart can't cost £50 or so if it's made in the thousands, I mean, listened to any reasonable CD "Walkmans" recently through a Hifi - not too bad at all ;)

Alex, if you buy one and you don't care for it, I'll have it off you - but not for a few months 'cos I have some expenses with the car coming up, an energy bill (the lowest one of the year though) and a very bad month's income end September as I'm not working during school hols..

sburrell
12-08-2010, 20:16
WooHoo! Someone just listed a QED Digit + Positron on eBay for £9.99 starting bid, £4.99 postage! If I get that it'll be ideal for comparing the difference between the twin-PSU modded Digit, and a bog-standard.

It's all good. :)

Yomanze
19-06-2011, 20:59
Thanks for reply re V-DAC. Perhaps it needs a better power supply too?????????

All this faffing around with the Digit/Positron's is still going to give you a coloured BITSTREAM sound, allbeit, a refined one I reckon...

Better to get a Rotel 965BX (Same DAC as the Digit) and reclock it. Then you get rid of that 'creamy' sound that is jitter rather than bitstream. For some reason the Philips SAA7323GP is a great, analogue sounding DAC, but if I had a Digit the first thing I'd do is work a new input stage as the early SPDIF receiver chips are blown away by stuff like the Crystal CS8412. The Rotel would blow both away with a bit of modifying... which reminds me, I need to get a couple of these players. ;)

Don't get me wrong I prefer multibit DACs; there are a few 1bit gems out there, but they need a seriously stable clock due to the massive oversampling methods used.

zanash
26-06-2011, 09:53
may be someone already compared the two ?

but here's my 2p worth ..

I was very suprised by the performance of the digit in stock form .....it was very good for its time and price point ....

I moded a unit ... in my usual way which I shaln't bore you with again ...the performance was given a real boost ..the owner thought I swapped the whole and just kept the cases !

shortly after I was passed a mk1 berrisford ....not certain of identification ...

my brief was do what I could with a £50 budget ......so not too restricted

on an initial listen I was underwhelmed by the performance ..as compared with similar ...nos dac , lite dac ah , digit ,src2496, entech ,

but there is/was a good dac in there tryoing to get out .... just a few choice component changes and a bit of silver wiring got it up to the level of modded digit ..

the flavour of sound was very different ...

so my conclusion was that your comparing apples with oranges !

better to compare the various family models maybe !

DSJR
26-06-2011, 10:17
The stock Digit is basically a "production realised" Philips implementation of their chipset and all the "designer" did was to lay the circuit out into a producable form. I don't use ot much, but I have to say that the Digit-Positron I bought from Simon sounds surprisingly good and far better than I remember. Single Positrons rarely come up and I thought a ton for one on ebay a few months ago was excessive, but since the Positron is quite a sophisticated power supply, I should look out for another while funds are less tight and do the twin-supply conversion.