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View Full Version : New Mark Grant Interconnects (G1500HD and G2000HD)



Steve Toy
03-08-2010, 11:44
The Mark Grant story for me began with a notion of wanting to get back to basics regarding those bits of wire joining different hi-fi boxes together. Over the years I have grown weary of endless circular objectivist/subjectivist debates about whether a piece of wire between two such boxes could possibly make a difference to the noise at the end coming out of the speakers. My own experience of this began, like most people as I imagine, with hoping that it would not. That way you can save yourself lots of money and focus your hi-fi expenditure entirely on the boxes themselves using the freebie connectors supplied.

Hi-fi dealers, advertisers and reviewers alike all pressed upon inexperienced punters like myself the need to set aside some of our overall budget for your speaker cables and of course those pesky little interconnects. One magazine even suggested a ball-park figure of 10 percent. This doesn't sound like an awful lot when your starter system costs well under a grand new, but it starts to make your eyes water as you upgrade and the total spend is over, say, ten grand.

At this point allowing yourself to believe that they make no difference whatsoever becomes kind of comforting, especially when there are scientists and people in the music and recording industry supporting this view as well as a chap called Rudi who, after ten yeas or so has still got $1 million US to give away to the first person who can identify different interconnects in blind tests on his premises.

Interconnects are on the market for silly money, the kind that would buy you a brand new car and people are actually gullible enough to pay such prices thinking that so doing will transport them at least closer to audio nirvana. What fools! But they are free to squander their hard-earned as they see fit, aren't they? Hearing is believing, especially at that kind of money.

It is easy to regard the entire cable industry as one of snake oil when you consider that no interconnect could possible cost anywhere near the tenth of the retail asking price of a new car to manufacture. Thus we have two polarised viewpoints - one that regards spending such vast sums on wire to be worthwhile and the other that says you are a fool for lining the pockets of a charlatan.

However, I'd like to suggest that there is a middle ground where common sense can prevail and we can evaluate an interconnect swap subjectively in the same way we would a box swap, secure in the knowledge that we are not being fleeced. Of course we need to consider the issue of expectation bias, which exists for sure and always needs to be acknowledged, but I think the kind of cynicism which results in the expectation bias being inversely proportional to the asking price also needs addressing...

My own experience was telling me that unfortunately different interconnects did make a repeatable difference to my enjoyment of recorded music. I even found certain well-known and highly regarded wires to render my system at the time unlistenable to my ears. There was not really any such thing as a good interconnect, there were simply those that buggered up the signal less than others or in ways that I found more acceptable and detracted less from my enjoyment of music. Surely, anyone viewing interconnects differently would only either be bestowing some cables with actively magical properties, thinking they are sprinkled with fairy dust or some such on the one hand, or on the other believe them all to be identically perfect, lose no signal and allow no noise to be added either. My gut feeling is that common sense prevails somewhere between these two absurd extremes.

As I upgraded my system it became necessary to keep upgrading the interconnects too in order that my system did not irritate me after the initial hit of the new box had worn off and it had become clear that the system hierarchy was somehow audibly out of kilter. At the end of 2006 having gone through various including from Chord and Nordost I was running two pairs of Siltech SQ28s costing £800 in total. This was roughly in keeping with the 10 percent of the total system ball park figure at the time.

Anyway, back to "back to basics," a friend and I in late 2008 noted that there were suppliers assembling and selling the kind of cables used in the recording industry from the likes of Belden and Canare. They presumably did the job and could be purchased retail for no more than around £20 a pair. My friend had ordered some from Blue Jeans, a US company but pointed me to the Yorkshire-based mail order company called Mark Grant Cables and I ordered two pairs from them.

In a phone conversation with Mark he agreed to send me three different types of these cheap but not nasty professional interconnects that he assembled himself. All I had to do was try them all and select the ones I preferred before returning the others and paying just for the ones I kept.

The plan was that if any of the three did the job as well as my £400-a-pair Siltech SQ28s I could sell the latter and put money in my pocket. To my surprise all three were actually better. They made the Siltechs sound rather flat and slightly muddled at the top end in comparison. I swapped back to the Siltechs just to be sure my ears/brain weren't deceiving me... Nope. Definitely flat and muddled at the top end!

I found very slight differences between the three types but settled on ones labelled "Canare video cable." All three seemed neutral in tonal balance and as such would show up deficiencies or mismatches in your system for what they were without masking them or acting as a tone control. These very slight differences between them seemed to be down to definition/timing not tonality.

Meanwhile my friend was deriving similar results with his Blue Jeans offerings versus his Transparent leads at nearly a grand a pop. I took my Mark Grants for him to hear and we both preferred them to the Blue Jeans. Despite the fact that they looked virtually identical they seemed livelier without straying into stridency. Apparently the difference may be attributable to Blue Jeans using their own design crimped connector that they call Taversoe, they look very similar to the Canare but are slightly different on close examination. My friend also picked the "video cable."

Anyway, Mark hinted that he was working on another version which would have additional screening and would therefore likely perform better. He eventually designed his own and rolls of the cable itself were eventually manufactured to his own specification. An early prototype was used in the AOS setup at Scalford Hall in March 2009. The final version became available in the autumn of 2009, was called the G1000HD and retailed at £75 for a 1 metre pair with a 30 day return refund policy.

G1000HD

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2902/g1000hdconnectors003.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors003.jpg/)

From Mark's website:

"This is a high purity copper cable, not silver or silver plated copper.

The cable has been produced to my own design to an extremely high tolerance.

The central conductor is a single solid core of high purity copper, this is surrounded by low density gas injected dielectric insulation and a dual layer shielding system consisting of two layers of dense coverage high purity copper and a very flexible clear sheathing.

The connectors are Canare phono RCA (Canare part number RCAP-C53). They are crimped so no solder is used. This is one of the reasons the cable performs so well."

Ok, £75 is a bit more than twenty quid but these interconnects still prove to be a veritable bargain for the performance on offer. There are no pseudo-scientific claims made by their manufacturer, just sound engineering and workmanship using good quality components. Over the standard £20 interconnects the G1000HDs remove even more background hash that in itself adds distortion and brightness to the upper registers. The result of such removal is even more precise imaging and better resolution of harmonic detail and decay of notes into space. Voices in particular gain more presence and subtle vocal inflections are more easily heard. These were my own experiences and I could go on but this interconnect is already well documented elsewhere. It was stated that it simply was not necessary to waste much bigger sums of money on interconnects by other manufacturers with fancy connectors. Sound advice indeed but it dig beg one question:

What would happen if you put such fancy connectors on the ends of G1000HDs?

First of all it would add to the cost but perhaps not as much as other manufacturers may wish to charge you for this privilege...

In May, two pairs of G1000HDs with Neutrik Pro-fi connectors on each end arrived through the post for me to try and to connect between the Acoustic Precision Eikos CD player, based on the Pioneer PD-S904 player from the mid/late nineties that I was borrowing at the time and my pre amplifier, a grounded grid valve design prototype by Anthony Matthews using 3 ECC82 valves and also the latter to my power amp, a Copper chassis 30 Watt Class A KT88 push-pull valve amp. The Eikos CD player has been in my system since early April now but I've been given the opportunity to buy it and I'm grabbing this chance with both hands because it's one of the best CD players I've heard at any price. As well as playing music impeccably it'll certainly show you precisely what interconnects plugged into it are taking away in terms of signal or what they are adding in terms of noise.

G1500HD (shown as G1000HD) with Neutrik Pro-fi connectors

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3484/g1000hdconnectors002.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors002.jpg/)


Talking of noise, a Spice Girls CD belonging to my wife was in the disc tray. Ok, I'd put it there and I know there will be some music snobs who like to spend a lot more time than I do dancing about architecture and who will now be scoffing,

"He said the Spice Girls! Uhuh, uhuh!!!"

The reason why this disc was in the tray is because of one track that I like - Saturday Night Divas. Apart from this track I find everything about the Spice Girls to be irritatingly brash, in-yer-face and devoid of any talent and I held this opinion of them back in the day when I was still in my twenties. This self-styled "Girl Power," or rather, more likely styled by their producers, epitomised the era of talent-less celebs which began in the late nineties with the Spice Girls and later gave us Big Brother and worse still (talent-less) Celebrity Big Brother. Ok, Mel C went on to make a very good solo album Northern star, Gerry Halliwell continued to play the role of the talent-less celeb on yo-yo diets or something and Ms Adams married Mr Beckham...

Saturday Night Divas begins with a cascading synth effect that pans from left to right and back again along with the chorus. Each pulse of this cascade could be heard much more distinctly. It was a no-brainer and I was barely a few seconds into the track and still at the intro. Then the percussion joins in and finally with the first verse a rather stonking bass line. The measure of the percussion, notably high hats was just perfect and in time with everything else.

A great pop song was now even better. Ok, I hate the Spice Girls as I've said but this was '97, just before the days of loudness wars, compression and MP3. The recording quality is actually rather good and the easy rhythms made for a foot tap-tastic listening experience.

Anyway, I decided to try some proper music. Beth Rowley's Little Dreamer and Katie Melua's new CD The House were duly spun. I derived a more involving listen from both these excellent female solo artists. More pace, rhythm and timing derived from improved leading edge definition as a result of these better connectors did not come at the expense of subtlety and emotion or the body and decay of notes; it wasn't simply a case of reproducing metronomic percussion.

Late in June my wife and I went to stay at the home of Dimitri, a fellow hi-fi/music enthusiast, in the South of France for a few days. I took with me both pairs of these Neutrik-terminated G1000HDs with me as they aren't exactly heavy and sit nicely at the bottom of a suitcase. Dimitri already has the standard Canare-terminated ones so the comparison was to be quite straight forward. Similar results were obtained although the improvement in definition perhaps didn't extend as far down the frequency range as I derived in my own system. This may be due to a very slightly fruity (not straying into boominess though) quality to his bass with this splendid Logitech Squeezebox, Croft Series Seven pre/power amps and a rather WAF-friendly pair of Sonus Faber floorstanders. Good interconnects like these are not going to radically alter the tonal balance of a system and if they do, there's definitely something wrong with them!

Replacing the Canare plugs and adding 25 quid to the price of the G1000HDs was definitely worth it and it was good to hear this improvement in two rather different systems. There aren't many upgrades out there for just £20 and here's the really good news:

If you've already shelled out for a pair of standard G1000HDs, provided you can send them back in working order you get a pair of these for just the difference in price. If you don't derive any improvement just send them back. Either way, all you have to do is send back the pair you don't want within 30 days for a full refund. All you pay is the cost of return postage plus your bus fare to the post office.

I don't think Mark could make the whole ordeal of trying these things out for yourself any fairer than that!

At the end of June another couple of sets of G1000HDs arrived through the post, this time with WBT connectors. My friend who had already tried WBTs told me I had a pleasant surprise in store and that these connectors would make as big an improvement again as the Neutriks had a month earlier. So with considerably high expectation I rather carefully plugged them in. WBTs come with an outer cover which screws onto the inner core in order to establish a tight contact with the socket. In order to avoid damaging either the plug or the socket at the rear of your equipment, when you want to remove them you need to remember to unscrew this cover first.

If there was any improvement at all it was very subtle. Perhaps the top end was a touch more refined but if anything the Neutriks were maybe slightly more involving. Any difference at all was negligible and given that these WBT 0147s more than double the price of the original Canare-terminated G1000HDs they are simply not worth the expenditure. Suffice to say, my expectations had not been met.

G1000HD with WBT 0147

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5259/g1000hdconnectors001.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors001.jpg/)


However it turned out that the WBTs my friend was using and had been raving about were not the same ones. He had the Nextgen 0110 cu and they were likely to be a different beast entirely. At £200 for a fully-assembled pair of G1000HDs with these connectors, the connectors alone costing over £100, they ought to be good. In the grand scheme of things £200 is still a lot of money for a pair of interconnects but it's still well short of even mid-priced leads from the likes of Nordost, Siltech or Transparent.Two pairs duly arrived last week for me to try and this time I had to be even more careful connecting them than with the 0147s. There is a screw-on outer cover just the same but instead of gripping two metal clasps with a narrow gap on each side, there are three clasps equally spaced with wider gaps between them that grip the socket. Two of them are plastic and one is a copper conductor. The assembly looks quite flimsy and you need to tighten the outer cover just enough for the connection to be secure but not enough that you might break the clasps. My guess is that the use of plastic is perhaps to decouple the connection from vibration.

G2000HD with WBT nextGen 0110 cu (shown as G1000HD)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4920/g1000hdconnectors005.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors005.jpg/)


With Francis Cabrel’s Des Roses et des Orties in the disc tray I pressed play...

Nice! Timing was up several notches, tiny pauses and inflections were a sheer delight and the accordion on the track “Madame...” now had a lovely rasp to go with the already pleasing tone. He sings, “Madame n’aime pas l’accordion...” just as the accordion kicks in and sounds vibrant and so real. How can she not like it, miserable cow?! The bass doesn’t go down an extra octave or even a half-octave or other such nonsense but the rhythm of the bass lines now has an extra element of complexity that I hadn’t hitherto perceived. The bottom end now has a more solid foundation that tells both its own story candidly and with conviction as well as driving the rest of the music along in tempo with it, which in turn is presented in a fashion that enables the listener to derive the pitch of each note much more easily.

The overall effect is a wonderfully coherent and compelling listening experience. I’m finding myself listening to tracks wishing they could go on a bit longer. I guess I’ll just have to play them again. I breezed through Mary Chapin Carpenter’s The Age of Miracles and also Beth Rowley’s Little Dreamer. As well as listening to tracks I was previously perhaps skipping past, I also noticed that the soundstage was a touch deeper. I derived a heightened sense of instruments being in front of others and vocals were placed centre-stage with more precision giving a greater impression of intimacy.

In all, expectations have been exceeded by the Nextgen 0110 cu connectors. Are these interconnects worth £200 in the context of my system? Yes, every penny. I’d have to spend more elsewhere in the system for a similar level of improvement in my music listening enjoyment. Fortunately, as I already own the original Canare-terminated G1000HDs I’m entitled to a full refund on their return so the upgrade cost is actually only £125 per pair.

The purpose of this opening post is to give people the opportunity to try these out for themselves. Objectivity here can be obtained through a body of consensus of people willing to try them rather than measurement or listening under testing conditions.

G2000HD

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2715/g1000hdconnectors004.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors004.jpg/)

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8356/g1000hdconnectors007.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors007.jpg/)

System:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5070/g1000hdconnectors008.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors008.jpg/)

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1986/g1000hdconnectors009.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/g1000hdconnectors009.jpg/)

Speakers: Heco Celan 700.

Gazjam
03-08-2010, 13:28
Good writeup Steve.

DSJR
03-08-2010, 13:35
What is it in the WBT's that makes them "better" I wonder? Mugs and wallet's eyeful or better materials? Since they're all gold plated and well shielded it can't be better conductivity. Perhaps the insulation between centre pin and screen is different?

Steve Toy
03-08-2010, 13:51
It might also be down to the ability to screw them tight or the decoupling effect of the plastic clasps on the Nextgen 0110.


Mugs and wallet's eyeful or better materials?

A decent pair of ears. :)

John
03-08-2010, 15:44
Nice write up Steve

Alex_UK
03-08-2010, 15:54
Yes, good effort Steve. (The WBT plug on my MikeH Coax didital interconnect nearly caught me out yesterday shifting my Caiman around until I remembered! :doh: They are so nice to use, though.)

DSJR
03-08-2010, 16:04
It might also be down to the ability to screw them tight or the decoupling effect of the plastic clasps on the Nextgen 0110.



A decent pair of ears. :)

You're probably correct in ALL of these assumptions :D

As I said on PFM, many thanks for going to the trouble. Mark may have forgotten now, but he did make me an offer recently I couldn't refuse as I had a dicky Canare plug. I'll drop him another email :)

DSJR
03-08-2010, 16:05
P.S. £200 for WBT'd Hd1000 cables has GOT to be a FAR better bet than a Chord Chorus, or whatever it's called these days.....

Mike
03-08-2010, 16:33
decoupling effect of the plastic clasps on the Nextgen 0110.

Plastic!?!... Tut, tut! The body is constructed of Ultramid®, while the negative contact uses Dyneon™ with contacts manufactured form pure Oxygen Free Copper and plated with a thin layer of 24k Gold to provide protection from oxidation.

Obviously! :rolleyes:


:D

Alex_UK
03-08-2010, 16:39
Ultramid®

Isn't Nylon a plastic then? http://iwww.plasticsportal.com/products/ultramid.html


Dyneon™

And neither is fluoropolymer? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/dyneon_fluoropolymers/Home/

;)

Don't you just love marketing-speak! :rolleyes:

Mike
03-08-2010, 16:44
Isn't Nylon a plastic then?
And neither is fluoropolymer?

Tssh, really! :rolleyes:

Of course not, they're 'polyamides'! .... Don't you know nuffink or wot! :lolsign:

leo
03-08-2010, 17:21
Nice write up Steve, you just need the Nextgen sockets fitted to CDP and pre now ;)

Its a shame Mark didn't sell this cable off the reel, be nice to use it to wire the inside of our equipment

anthonyTD
03-08-2010, 17:52
very well written and indepth acount of your findings steve.
well done once again to Mark Grant for another great product.:)
A...

Clive
03-08-2010, 18:30
Great write up.

Were Bullet phonos considered or tried?

Steve Toy
03-08-2010, 19:57
No they weren't but personally I've had mixed feeling about them having used them in the past.

Spectral Morn
03-08-2010, 20:06
Yes nice review :)

I heard this sound difference plugs makes a few years back when True Colours Industries (TCI) used the dem room of the shop I worked in to train a new staff member.

The TCS Viper was used in standard form then with WBT lockable plugs there was a quite marked difference in sound quality with the WBT version sounding more open and detailed with better bass.

Must say though I don't like WBT next gen plugs as they both look and feel, flimsy in construction. WBTs ideas though on these are interesting, I just wish they were a bit more robust. This is through experience as I have used cables fitted with them from time to time in the past. That is not to say that they don't sound good though.

Regards D S D L

Steve Toy
03-08-2010, 20:10
The WBT 0147s are more robust but sound inferior and aren't much cheaper either.

Steve Toy
15-08-2010, 10:26
Update:

Having lived with the Nextgen-terminated G2000HDs for a couple of weeks now I can confirm that they have worked their magic with just about any half-decent recording I care to throw at them and I have a better idea of precisely what their effect is on overall performance - dynamics, resolution and timing are all improved and this is no placebo effect or it would have worn off by now.

I'd go as far to say as I think my system is starting to outclass my speakers ever so slightly now. I get the impression that they are teetering on the brink of sounding congested. Not quite there yet but a certain effortless quality is slightly lacking now. I think that any more ancilliary or component upgrades I may have planned (Furutech plugs/sockets, improved PSU for the CD player, ReVo support to replace the QS Ref, modifications to my mains block) may make this more obvious.

Although I believe that provided speakers match both the characteristics of the room and the amp reasonably well and they have sufficient bass extention they only account for 5-10% of a system's performance, there comes a time when, relatively speaking, they are the bottleneck in the system.

I think I may be reaching that point. I'm not quite there yet but very close. I also think the Hecos have done very well to get this far as they form part of a system which has frankly awesome resolving power.


My budget is very limited and dependent on the sale of the Bel Canto CD2*.

The ideal speakers for my system and room I reckon would be a pair of Tannoy Kensingtons as heard when I was in Montpellier at Audiophile Technologie but they cost 7.5k new :eek: so I've really got to look at s/h or the possibility of some kind person agreeing to build me a pair of DIY speakers with Tannoy drivers, preferably 10 or 12 inch not the full 15 as I doubt my room would cope.

I am open to suggestions over the coming weeks.




*if anyone's interested in a bomb-proof CD spinner in mint condition used in the system at Scalford Hall as a transport because it's one of the best transports out there. Even with PSUs all being off-board, this cute looking box of tricks weighs in at 10Kg)

Clive
15-08-2010, 12:59
Steve, any thoughts on te marginally more expensive wbt 0102cu? They seem to be a later, more robust version. I'm even starting to be drawn to the even more expensive ag version having read about what the ag/rhodium mix is said to do. I realise Mark doesn't offer the 0102....yet....

DSJR
15-08-2010, 13:19
Big tannoys only sell at trade price in the UK - or nearly new used. Noone seems to want to pay full price for them, which I suppose is par for the course these days :(

Steve, if you can find some modern Tannoys (what about some DMT15's and get the drivers updated if possible by Lockwoods?) on the used market. You may have to do some trawling, but I'm sure there may be some around and they'll eat those Heco's alive ;)

Mike
15-08-2010, 13:29
Steve, any thoughts on te marginally more expensive wbt 0102cu? They seem to be a later, more robust version. I'm even starting to be drawn to the even more expensive ag version having read about what the ag/rhodium mix is said to do. I realise Mark doesn't offer the 0102....yet....

Strictly speaking, the 0102's should be used for analogue cables and the 0110's for digital. The latter having a 'claimed' characteristic impedance of 75 ohms.

Mike
15-08-2010, 13:33
Strictly speaking, the 0102's should be used for analogue cables and the 0110's for digital. The latter having a 'claimed' characteristic impedance of 75 ohms.

Hmmm... ignore that. WBT seem to be claiming 75 ohms for both. :rolleyes:

Although they do say...



WBT-0110 nextgen™ pure was designed as the perfect RCA plug for digital links, the new WBT-0102 Cu optimizes analogue connections. WBT-0102 Cu has the more conductive and with the minus contact element connected brass clamping sleeve in order to provide the necessary electromagnetic shielding.

colinB
15-08-2010, 19:44
Yeah, im confused about that too. Im really impressed with the Ringmat tonearm cable im using and want to pair it of with a cable terminated with nextgens between my phono stage and amp. But Ringmat have chosen the 010 plugs for an analogue connection. There doesn`t seem to be any difference.

Reid Malenfant
15-08-2010, 19:51
Strictly speaking, the 0102's should be used for analogue cables and the 0110's for digital. The latter having a 'claimed' characteristic impedance of 75 ohms.
I like the way you say "claimed" ;) I get the impression you know that they are all over the place & have no characteristic impedance :lol: That's one reason i don't like S/PDIF cables, though they are better than Toslink imo.

colinB
15-08-2010, 20:50
On the german website the 0110 cu plugs are described as totally free from eddy currents but the description for the 102 is mostly free from eddy currents:scratch: Apart from that no descriptive differences. Strange.

Marco
15-08-2010, 22:12
Hi Clive,


Steve, any thoughts on te marginally more expensive wbt 0102cu? They seem to be a later, more robust version. I'm even starting to be drawn to the even more expensive ag version having read about what the ag/rhodium mix is said to do. I realise Mark doesn't offer the 0102....yet....

I think Mark will terminate G1000HDs in any WBT plugs you like - just ask for a quote.

As for sonic differences between 0110s and 0102s, I'd expect them to be very subtle, but why not get the best plugs available? :)

I'm not sure I can be arsed going there myself, as I'm very happy with the 0110cus. When I have my Supra digital coaxial cable re-terminated with WBTs, I may try some 0102ags on that....

My focus at the moment is on having all the 13A sockets on my mains filter and distribution block replaced with the new Furutech FP-1363-S (R) sockets. So far I've done the block and, bloody hell, what a improvement that's made in conjunction with my existing Furutech FI-1363 mains plugs!! :eek:

The quality of connection in terms of the way both plugs and sockets 'mate' together is incredible (it's as tight as a very tight thing!), together with the design's highly effective decoupling from vibration, and this is translated into noticeably improved audio performance in all usual areas.

Mark's G1000 and G2000HD WBT terminated interconnects are quite superb, but IMO, his Furutech terminated DSP 2.5 mains leads are even more sonically effective. For people who are really serious about getting the most from their system, and have addressed the interconnect side of things, then the Furutech terminated DSP 2.5s are the next step and an absolute must!

Marco.

DSJR
15-08-2010, 22:50
Oh Marco, I bet your system was unlistenable last year before all these "improvements" you've carried out and with a turntable power supply that sounded "broken" too... I bet that if someone was to put your system tweaks back a year without your knowledge, you'd barely tell any difference... :D ;)

Marco
15-08-2010, 22:54
Lol!

Nae laddie - it's all about fine tuning and eking out that last few percent. In effect, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, old chap. When you get to where I'm at with a system, it's the attention to detail that makes all the difference :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
16-08-2010, 03:35
It's fair to say that the systems of people who know what they want will evolve over time through a process of small steps although some of these steps aren't exactly small.

Both Marco's and my system have improved considerably in terms of resolution over the last couple of years.

As for not noticing the difference I think if you took either of us from two years ago and transported us to the present day our respective 2008 versions of ourselves would be pretty gobsmacked, or should I say jawsmacked.

Clive
16-08-2010, 07:04
As for sonic differences between 0110s and 0102s, I'd expect them to be very subtle, but why not get the best plugs available? :)

Hi Marco,

Therein lies the problem, from the WBT website it seems that the 0102s are more robust than the 110s but there's no clarity on which sounds better. I was hoping Steve might have known why the 110s were chosen over the 0102, the cost difference is small. The cu vs ag issue is another matter with cost being a factor here.

Mike
16-08-2010, 07:32
I like the way you say "claimed" ;)

I was careful when choosing the wording... :)

Marco
16-08-2010, 07:52
Therein lies the problem, from the WBT website it seems that the 0102s are more robust than the 110s but there's no clarity on which sounds better. I was hoping Steve might have known why the 110s were chosen over the 0102, the cost difference is small. The cu vs ag issue is another matter with cost being a factor here.

Sounds like a project doing some comparisons, Clive, you may wish to embark on :)

Btw, 75 Ohms impedance or not, who cares? The WBTs in question significantly improve the sonic performance of Mark's cables, so that's the important bit!

Marco.

Clive
16-08-2010, 08:20
Sounds like a project doing some comparisons, Clive, you may wish to embark on :)

Marco.
Yup, that's the conclusion I'm coming to...sitting by the pool at a villa near Frejus.

I would have emailed Mark but I'm only on the net via my phone (wifi in the villa), I don't have Mark's email address on my phone. I know you don't like smart phone but it's less hassle to lug than a laptop.

Marco
16-08-2010, 08:26
Lol - love it! :eyebrows:

Far be it for me to condemn the use of these things when it's done so judiciously!

Enjoy... I hope you're drinking something nice, although perhaps it's a bit too early for alcohol :cheers:

Marco.

Mike
16-08-2010, 09:07
Btw, 75 Ohms impedance or not, who cares? The WBTs in question significantly improve the sonic performance of Mark's cables, so that's the important bit!

Marco,

You've missed the point mate...

WBT themselves recommend the 0102 for analogue and the 0110 for digital. If you can be bothered to read through all the narcolepsy inducing gumpf you'll find something about improved screening on the 0102 plugs. The 75ohm impedance is neither here nor there when it comes to analogue.

Marco
16-08-2010, 09:21
Hi Mike,

No, I know what you mean, dude, and the point you're making is valid.

It's just that if I get improved sound from doing something, be it fitting new plugs or anything else, I'm not really interested in the technical 'whys and wherefores', just the end result. Therefore, I'm not bothered if the WBTs are genuinely 75 Ohms or not :)

You're far more inquisitive than me though in that respect, which is no bad thing!

Interesting, however, that 0110 is recommended for digital. I might try a G1000HD with 0110s between my transport and DAC, in place of the Supra, and see what happens :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
16-08-2010, 12:59
Lol!

Nae laddie - it's all about fine tuning and eking out that last few percent. In effect, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, old chap. When you get to where I'm at with a system, it's the attention to detail that makes all the difference :)

Marco.

..until you the upgrade to a better system that doesn't NEED all this faffing arround ;)

Marco
16-08-2010, 13:09
Lol - it's not faffing around, mate. I'm merely ensuring the best set-up, so that I realise the full potential of my gear.

The same would apply no matter what equipment I used. This is one of the reasons why I have an exceptionally good sounding system. It's not just about the equipment!

It's the attention to detail that matters, which is at the heart of the AOS ethos :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
16-08-2010, 14:17
Dave obviously believes there is this perfect hi-fi system out there that can resolve immaculately the dynamics and detail of live music.

Until that happens, significant steps closer are still beneficial to our enjoyment of recorded music.

The effect of nextgens on the enjoyment of the above is not insignificant.

Mike
16-08-2010, 15:42
The effect of nextgens on the enjoyment of the above is not insignificant.

Don't forget to fit the matching sockets though!.... :eyebrows:

Marco
16-08-2010, 15:47
Indeed... That's my next move after the two 13A sockets on my filter have been 'Furuteched'! ;)

Marco.

Mike
16-08-2010, 16:52
More from WBT.

It sez 'ere....



The basic element having influence on the sound quality of WBT-0102 Cu is the Central Contact Unit which has been developed exactly the same way as for the plug model WBT-0110 Cu: minimal mass of signal conductors made of fine silver. Copper was chosen as one of the best electrical conductors which is the absolute guarantee not only for an ultra rapid signal transmission, but also for an excellent fine resolution. The signal conductors are gold plated (nickel-free) and thus best possibly protected against oxidation. which would affect the contact quality.

WBT-0102 Cu lies with its transmission bandwidth up to 200 MHz far in excess of the transmission bandwidth of conventional RCA plugs.

Through the collect chuck device which works like a chuck of a drill machine the plug’s outer contact once inserted clamps firmly to the RCA socket. The maximum contact pressure provides not only a secure connection, but also minimizes the transition resistance (http://www.wbt.de/index.php?id=34#c145).

Thanks to the two-piece clamping sleeve the sleeve’s cone does not turn while the clamping sleeve is tightened and thus the contact elements are not exposed to twisting pressure. Besides, this way dimension inaccuracy of the outer contacts of the female sockets are compensated for.

The centre pin is slotted and slightly bent up and thus guarantees with its firm spring feature a long-lasting secure electrical connection with lowest transition resistance possible.

The body element is made of brass (gold plated) in order to accept rigid and particularly thick cables. The metal connector body is of course electrically uncoupled from the Central Contact Unit und is made of as little metal as possible so that also WBT-0102 Cu is free from eddy current to a large extent.

Other than for digital outputs it is very important for phono outputs (record players, microphones) to have a good shielding against electromagnetic interfering fields. The undesirable interspersions can be very high depending on the nature of the devices and first of all on what they are surrounded by (cellular phones, computers etc.). WBT-0110 nextgen™ pure was designed as the perfect RCA plug for digital links, the new WBT-0102 Cu optimizes analogue connections. WBT-0102 Cu has the more conductive and with the minus contact element connected brass clamping sleeve in order to provide the necessary electromagnetic shielding.

For soldering your cable WBT recommends using silver solder WBT-0800 (http://www.wbt.de/index.php?id=94#c112) (see also solder connection (http://www.wbt.de/index.php?id=34#c135)) which is gentle on the surface.

Torx screw (http://www.wbt.de/index.php?id=34#c144) provides a secure cable strain relief. (The position of the Torx screw on the plug´s round shaft can vary depending on the production process).


So there yo go!

I'd be interested to know if anyone here has actually 'heard' the two different plugs on the same cable and could tell us about it?

Dunno why, but I always find this sort of thing interesting. :)

Cheers...

Marco
16-08-2010, 17:04
Thanks for posting the info, Mike - interesting :)

What do you think this means, though:


WBT-0102 Cu has the more conductive and with the minus contact element connected brass clamping sleeve in order to provide the necessary electromagnetic shielding.


The more conductive what exactly? :scratch:

I don't really understand in what way the two plugs are different from each other in terms of design, and how this is supposed to make one better than the other for either digital or analogue purposes.

How do you interpret it?

Marco.

Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 17:23
Well I've got two of your digi cables Mike,one with the cheaper jobbies on,and another with the expensive ones,and I can't tell any difference.

Mike
16-08-2010, 17:29
What do you think this means, though:
Specifically the bit in bold, which makes no sense in English.

You need to try and read the sentence as a whole remembering it's from the German WBT website.

I think it says the outer sleeve is made of brass and connected to the outer pin, and is more conductive than that on the 0110 so gives better shielding.

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 17:34
I think it says the outer sleeve is made of brass and connected to the outer pin, and is more conductive than that on the 0110 so gives better shielding.
I always thought that copper was a better conductor than brass :scratch: Silver being better than copper... However i do see they mention in comparison to another plug & as i don't know what the outer of said plug is i guess what you say could be correct Mike ;)

Marco
16-08-2010, 17:34
I think it says the outer sleeve is made of brass and connected to the outer pin, and is more conductive than that on the 0110 so gives better shielding.


Ok, I'll go with that... So why would a supposedly less conductive plug (the 0110) be better for digital applications? :scratch:

One would presume that the highest signal conductivity is an asset for plugs in all applications.

Marco.

Mike
16-08-2010, 17:39
I always thought that copper was a better conductor than brass :scratch: Silver being better than copper... However i do see they mention in comparison to another plug & as i don't know what the outer of said plug is i guess what you say could be correct Mike ;)

Yep... it's in comparison with the WBT-0110. The outer 'barrel' of which feels to be made out of some sort of light alloy, probably something with a fancy name that translates into "aluminium". ;)

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 17:40
Ok, I'll go with that... So why would a supposedly less conductive plug (the 0110) be better for digital applications? :scratch:

One would presume that the highest conductivity is an asset for plugs in all applications.

Marco.
It might be less conductive but it could well have a much better impedance match. While this isn't important at audio frequencies it most certainly is at the radio frequencies used via the digital S/PDIF link.

The frequency might not at first appear to be that high, however we are talking about sending a square wave down this interconnect & it'll be dead important to keep the rising & falling edges of the square wave as undistorted as possible to minimise jitter.

Mike
16-08-2010, 17:42
Ok, I'll go with that... So why would a supposedly less conductive plug (the 0110) be better for digital applications? :scratch:

One would presume that the highest signal conductivity is an asset for plugs in all applications.

Marco.

I don't thing it says the plug is more conductive, just the outer 'barrel' (which connects the the -ve terminal) so it provides better screening. Which WBT claim is more important on analogue cables... not so sure about that, personally. :scratch:

Marco
16-08-2010, 17:43
Hi Mark,


It might be less conductive but it could well have a much better impedance match.


Sure, but why not design their ultimate plug for digital applications with both the highest conductivity and the best impedance match - or perhaps that isn't possible? :scratch:

I insist on having the best of both worlds! ;)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 17:48
Aha, what you need then is to use BNC plugs which have a proper characteristic impedance or go one better (like i have) & use an AES/EBU balanced 110 ohm connection ;)

The difference is quite remarkable even using a cheap midi type lead on the AES/EBU compared to an expensive so called digital S/PDIF cable :eyebrows:

You want the best, use the best :cool:

Marco
16-08-2010, 17:50
I don't thing it says the plug is more conductive, just the outer 'barrel' (which connects the the -ve terminal) so it provides better screening. Which WBT claim is more important on analogue cables... :scratch:

Okies, so surely they could also design the 0110 that way whilst retaining its superior impedance match characteristics? That would result in even better performance, no?

Marco.

Marco
16-08-2010, 17:54
Aha, what you need then is to use BNC plugs which have a proper characteristic impedance or go one better (like i have) & use an AES/EBU balanced 110 ohm connection

The difference is quite remarkable even using a cheap midi type lead on the AES/EBU compared to an expensive so called digital S/PDIF cable.

You want the best, use the best...

Oh I do, matey, and have every intention of doing precisely that.... ;)

I'm aware of the BNC option (and had intended to implement this at some point) but had never heard before of an "AES/EBU balanced 110 ohm connection".

So what does this look like (pics please) and why is it better than BNCs? Moreover, why is 110 Ohm better than 75? :)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 17:59
The AES/EBU connection uses a twin conductor & screen cable & the signal is sent in phase on one conductor & out of phase on the other. At the receiver end any interference that has been picked up is naturally cancelled out :)

The connectors are Neutrik type 3 pin XLR plugs & sockets (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Neutrik-NC3MXX-B-XLR-3-Pin-Male-Cannon-Plug-Black-Gold-/200508015277?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL).

You probably won't find a lot of kit that uses this connector, the Krell DT10 transport i have does though, as does the Theta Data Basic that i was using prior to the Krell. The Americans tend to favour it on top end equipment & it's the usual connection option on studio type equipment.

It really does wipe the floor with phono connected S/PDIF, i can't say i have heard anything via a BNC connector though as i haven't owned any gear that had that connector fitted. However i really don't think i need to, balanced is universally regarded as a far better type of connection simply because of the natural cancellation of any interference :)

The 110 ohm bit is simply the natural cable impedance it has been designed as, much like you can get both 50 & 75 ohm single ended cables. On any single ended connection you definately ought to use a 75 ohm cable & plugs that have the same specific impedance. Unfortunately phono plugs as a rule don't have as they were never designed to. They were a simple audio connector & as such they aren't impedance rated, due to there geometry it's difficult to design them to be impedance specific.

Mike
16-08-2010, 18:04
Oh I do, matey, and have every intention of doing precisely that.... ;)

Then save yourself a small fortune and go straight to the good old British Naval Connector! :)

They cost peanuts compared to these fancy RCA jobbies. :eek:

Or there's AES/EBU. ;)

Marco
16-08-2010, 18:07
Ah, so an "AES/EBU connection" is just another word for XLRs?

So in my instance, would fitting XLR sockets to the digital output of my CD transport and input of my DAC, thus replacing the existing RCAs, be the way to go instead of fitting BNCs? Btw, neither my CD transport or DAC are balanced.

And why is 110 Ohms better than 75? :)

Sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm genuinely interested!

Marco.

Marco
16-08-2010, 18:08
Then save yourself a small fortune and go straight to the good old British Naval Connector!


So wossat when it's at home? :)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 18:16
Ah, so an "AES/EBU connection" is just another word for XLRs?

So in my instance, would fitting XLR sockets to the digital output of my CD transport and input of my DAC be the way to go instead of fitting BNCs? Btw, neither are balanced.

And why is 110 Ohms better than 75? :)

Sorry to ask all these questions, but I'm genuinely interested!

Marco.
110 ohm bit hopefully answered in a post edit :)

If you were to go the balanced route you'd need to change from a single ended output to balanced. Luckily it's not very difficult as you just need to change the output transformer in the player/ transport. Winding one isn't difficult as we are talking a about 10 turns on a ferrite bead. I have done it myself so if you feel like experimenting (before cutting holes in your gear to fit XLR sockets) i'd be more than happy to let you know how to go about it ;)

& my apologies for possibly getting this tread a tad :offtopic:

colinB
16-08-2010, 18:17
When i worked for the Navy all the connectors were made by Plessey.
They were highly conductive and immune to the corrosion of salt water and the male female coupling was secured by bolts!

Marco
16-08-2010, 18:22
Thanks for that, Mark. However no way am I messing about with the output transformers in my highly treasured (and rather expensive) vintage Sony kit! :eek:

Apart from anything else, you're talking to a ham-fisted technically ignorant b*stard who's rarely used a soldering iron in his life!! ;)

No, I have experts, or at least people who know what they're doing, for those sorts of things :)


On any single ended connection you definately ought to use a 75 ohm cable & plugs that have the same specific impedance.


I think that's the route I'll go down, with BNCs fitted on both my digital coaxial interconnect and sockets on my CD transport and DAC. I suspect that this will be a sonic upgrade from the existing RCAs.

Marco.

Mike
16-08-2010, 18:36
BNC = British Naval Connector. ;)

Mike
16-08-2010, 18:41
Ah, so an "AES/EBU connection" is just another word for XLRs?

Erm, no. :lol:

AES/EBU is a 'standard' for digital audio transmission (S/PDIF is a simplified version).

XLR is just a type of connector. From Wikipedia:



In reference to its original manufacturer, James H. Cannon (http://theartofsound.net/wiki/Cannon_family#James_H._Cannon), founder of Cannon Electric (http://theartofsound.net/wiki/Cannon_(company)) in Los Angeles, California (http://theartofsound.net/wiki/Los_Angeles,_California) (now part of ITT Corporation (http://theartofsound.net/wiki/ITT_Corporation)), the connector is colloquially known as a cannon plug or cannon connector. Originally the "Cannon X" series, subsequent versions added a Latch ("Cannon XL") and then a Rubber compound surrounding the contacts, which led to the abbreviation XLR.[1] (http://theartofsound.net/forum/#cite_note-rane-0) Many companies now make XLRs. The initials "XLR" have nothing to do with the pinout of the connector. XLR connectors can have other numbers of pins besides three.
They are superficially similar to the older and smaller DIN connector (http://theartofsound.net/wiki/DIN_connector) range, but are not physically compatible with them.


I'm getting good at this pasting lark... :lol:

DSJR
16-08-2010, 18:42
Naim had it right at the time regarding BNC's being better than phono plugs - at RF frequencies... I suspect the real reason though for using them was to make it difficult to use anyone elses amps without adaptors or re-termination...

As for DIN plugs, I understand that they really are truly terrible in electrical terms and should have been stifled in the 60's..

Marco
16-08-2010, 18:43
Lol - it's all flying over the top of my daft nut now, so I'll just stick with the BNCs! :doh:

Marco.

DSJR
16-08-2010, 18:45
You ain't daft Marco. You must have had some nous to be able to be as economically free as you claim to be :)

Ali Tait
16-08-2010, 18:48
Naim had it right at the time regarding BNC's being better than phono plugs - at RF frequencies... I suspect the real reason though for using them was to make it difficult to use anyone elses amps without adaptors or re-termination...

As for DIN plugs, I understand that they really are truly terrible in electrical terms and should have been stifled in the 60's..

So how come Naim always claimed they were better then?

Marco
16-08-2010, 18:49
Lol - I'm just daft in certain areas! You should hear what Del's says about that :lolsign:

Marco.

Stratmangler
16-08-2010, 18:51
So what does this look like (pics please) and why is it better than BNCs? Moreover, why is 110 Ohm better than 75? :)

It isn't.
It was fudged to accomodate for recording and mastering studios having balanced cables to hand, but not necessarily having S/PDIF cables.

Mike
16-08-2010, 18:56
It isn't.
It was fudged to accomodate for recording and mastering studios having balanced cables to hand, but not necessarily having S/PDIF cables.


Completely off topic here!

Chris!... rather disconcertingly, your avatar is bopping in perfect time to 'Dirty Vegas' which playing right now! :stalks:


:lolsign:

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 18:58
Lol - it's all flying over the top of my daft nut now, so I'll just stick with the BNCs! :doh:

Marco.
:lolsign: If you really want to have your head messed i can tell you that you can still have a balanced output using either phono or BNC connectors :scratch:

You just need to incorporate an unbalanced to balanced transformer (ferrite bead) inside the plug & then used 110 ohm balanced cable & do the same thing at the receiving end ;)

Trust me, i have done it & it works a treat :eyebrows:

I'd definately suggest going to BNCs over phonos though, at least you'll get the impedance right & it's damn important to avoid reflections (SWR - standing wave ratio needs to be kept as close to 1:1 as possible, IE all 75 ohm) at the high frequencies that the edges of the square wave produce. Reflections = jitter, so get things impedance matched & you should get better sound :) BNC connectors of 75 ohm impedance & the correct cable (75 ohm) should see a noticeable sonic improvement over any phono connector.

Mike
16-08-2010, 19:09
I'd definately suggest going to BNCs over phonos though, at least you'll get the impedance right & it's damn important to avoid reflections (SWR - standing wave ratio needs to be kept as close to 1:1 as possible, IE all 75 ohm) at the high frequencies that the edges of the square wave produce. Reflections = jitter, so get things impedance matched & you should get better sound :) BNC connectors of 75 ohm impedance & the correct cable (75 ohm) should see a noticeable sonic improvement over any phono connector.

I've said this before... but some people think I'm talking out of my arse! :pat: :lol:

Marco
16-08-2010, 19:14
You just need to incorporate an unbalanced to balanced transformer (ferrite bead) inside the plug & then used 110 ohm balanced cable & do the same thing at the receiving end...


Cost the job up then, including your labour, and I'll send the gear to you... As long as you realise that I *will* kill you if you f*ck it up!! :lol:

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 19:34
I've said this before... but some people think I'm talking out of my arse! :pat: :lol:
What planet were they on then? Obviously they don't understand about high frequency transmission :eyebrows: Pleased we are on the same wavelength, i'm with you 100% ;)

Cost the job up then, including your labour, and I'll ship the gear to you... As long as you realise that I *will* kill you if you f*ck it up!! :lol:

Marco.
I can look into it for you :) However as i have mentioned the BNC plugs are vastly superior due to them having a characteristic impedance. Unfortunately there is to put it mildly sod all room in the average BNC plug to fit in even a small ferrite bead :(

I was forced to do the balanced to unbalanced transformation as i love the difference the Monarchy Audio DIP24/96 made in my system & i wasn't prepared to lose it. Both previously mentioned transports have the AES/EBU output so i fitted the transformer in the receiving phono plug (enough room in there thankfully) & it was a win win situation. BNCs are a different matter & i have never seen one that'd house the extra stuff that would be required to run a balanced system :(

Seeing as i appear to be about to mod a few things i'll likely be fitting a Cannon socket (cheers Mike!) on the DIP24/96 & incorporating the balanced - unbalanced transformer internally rather than using a phono plug ;)

Mike
16-08-2010, 20:00
rather than using a phono plug ;)

Damn things! :spew:

Actually.... there are some beautifully engineered examples of the breed, admittedly. But, my God, look at the prices! :stalks:

Reid Malenfant
16-08-2010, 20:10
Damn things! :spew:

Actually.... there are some beautifully engineered examples of the breed, admittedly. But, my God, look at the prices! :stalks:
:lolsign: I actually agree with you as they aren't designed for anything specific (phono plugs/sockets), just like a 3.5mm jack plug can have audio flowing or DC from a power supply ;)

This is why i can't wait to go fully balanced with the Cannon XLRs & the Audio Research MP1. Just need to get balanced output phono stage built & i'm laughing :) As you know top quality XLRs can be had for about £4 each delivered so which appears to be the better value :doh: :lol:

I'm off, blu ray time ;)

Stratmangler
16-08-2010, 20:11
There's a good page on BNC on Wikipedia, from which this quote came from


False acronyms

Over the years the BNC has acquired a number of 'backronyms' such as

* Baby Neill-Concelman
* Baby N connector
* British Naval Connector
* Bayonet Nut Connector
* Bayonet Naval Connector.

Prior to Neill-Concelman's work, a similar twist–lock system was used in the UK for joining items other than coaxial cable. British Naval Connector came from American engineers who had been in the UK in World War 2: they recognised the twist–lock system as originating in Britain, and so assumed the BNC connector was designed there.

Ammonite Audio
17-08-2010, 11:17
Just had an e-mail from Mark Grant to say that my G2000HD cables will be here tomorrow. They'll be used between the Bob's Devices SUT and the phono amp.

Marco
17-08-2010, 11:29
Nice one, Hugo - I'll be very interested in your thoughts on them :)

Marco.

Tarzan
29-08-2010, 09:06
I have not been on the forum for that long but boy has it been productive! After reading about the Technics SL1200/1210, l bought one and am glad l did, so after a load of posts about the MG G1000HD cables and a firm cable believer - l loaned a pair and l will cut to the chase these are the best cables l have yet heard in my system, warm, full, musical and very refined- l am seriously impressed, l do however have a couple of quick questions, do the Neutrik equipped version sound the same as the base version-but more of what that cable provides ie more of the same, final question on a slightly different note, does the Mark Grant mains cable sound like the G1000HD, ie, warm, full musical, as l have noted they both use high purity copper cable and a load of shielding as l said before l really like this cable, now back to the music, LPs bought on holiday last week in beautiful but rainy Dartmouth, thanks again for the heads up on the cable:respect::)

MartinT
29-08-2010, 10:23
They'll be used between the Bob's Devices SUT and the phono amp.

I'm impressed with the MGs used in that position. I'm now waiting for balanced MGs to appear so that I can use them in the phono pre to preamp position.

Ammonite Audio
30-08-2010, 18:42
I'm impressed with the MGs used in that position. I'm now waiting for balanced MGs to appear so that I can use them in the phono pre to preamp position.

And they do seem to be much better than the 'cooking' Mark Grant interconnects. I shall be keeping them and sending the G1000HDs back for a refund. They will be used in the mains and cables room at the London Bake-Off show if anyone is interested.

Clive
27-09-2010, 21:25
My G2000HD have been run for a while now so I've just compared them to the G1000HD. This comparison involves the cable between my Nighthawk phono stage and Tram DHT preamp.

First of all I should mention that the G2000HD have the latest WBT 0102 Cu phonos, this seems to be a good move as they are better made than the 0110's.

These phonos allow me to see the quality of the soldering inside the plugs. All 8 connections (4 plugs) are very well executed indeed.

Now for the sound.

- Details are more apparent. I don't mean more obvious, I suppose more discernible is another way to put it.

- There is more time and space around notes, there seems to be a clearer background (some might say "darker").

- There is a greater precision, which is not in the least bit clinical.

- There are consequential soundstage improvements as a result of all this.

To put this into perspective, the improvements are easy to hear. They aren't as great as the improvements due to my £430 Audio Note Silver capacitors but they are very worthwhile and I'll be keeping the G2000HD and returning the still excellent G1000HD.

Peter Stockwell
28-09-2010, 11:17
Clive beat me to it, I just got set of G2000HD (WBT cu 0102 version), and I hear it like he does, more clarity, more precision.

In another thread I meantioned that my SB3/TeddySB3PS/Paradox 8i Dac/G2000HD sounded less engaging than my Audiocom modified CDX with standard XPS with DIN G1000HD. I'd say that the G2000HD pretty much wipes out that caveat.

So the replaced G1000HDs from the streaming rig will be back to Mark shortly!

SquireC
17-01-2011, 17:40
My summarised comments on the G1500HD – Best interconnects I’d heard (when I ‘listened to them’).

My summarised comments on the G2000HD – Even better than the G1500HD’s

I would suggest that everybody’s system is different to everyone else’s. Even if you have identical equipment and leads, the quality of your mains power, the room you are listening in, your own ears, will mean that identical systems will sound different. Add in the type of music you listen to, and the quality of the recordings, and I would suggest that it is impossible to say that Brand X is the best CD player you can buy, or Brand Y is the best amp, etc.

Have I listened to every available interconnect in my system. Of course not. Have I heard a wide range of equipment and systems? Over the last 40 years – Yes I have. And having worked with a friend of mine who was an agent for a valve amplifier manufacturer, I have heard equipment I am very familiar with plugged into some seriously expensive systems as part of the marketing of the amps, systems using ‘highly regarded’ interconnects. So while not claiming to be anything of an expert, just a music lover, I think I am in a position to voice an opinion.

Putting the G1500’s between CD and pre-amp, the sound became more ‘right’. A bit like the effect of the human mountain that stands in front of you at concerts moving out of the way. The music is the same but suddenly its easier to hear, you can hear more of it, the bass is less ‘muddy’, you can hear the vocalist better – everything is better.

Adding another G1500 between pre-amp and power amp – same effect, but you’ve moved half a dozen rows nearer the stage. Everything is better again.
Change the G1500 from CD to pre-amp to a G2000 and you really begin to appreciate what your system can produce. A bit less brightness (not that the G1500 is bright), but even better imaging, amazing vocal detail and presence (I think so anyway), wonderful decay on notes, you can hear the pitch of each note so much more easily, superbly natural percussion .... it becomes enthralling to listen to music you’ve listened to for years, and you hear things you haven’t heard before. So much that often tracks sound like new recordings , new mixes. As for bass ..... clean, deep, musical with none of that ‘upper bass bloom’ that can make harsh CD’s sound like analogue (but the sound just isn’t right) and is a feature of too many amps (in my opinion).
Change the G1500 from pre-amp to power amp to a G2000 and ……the merest touch of brightness or edginess disappears, soundstage goes wider and everything else just sounds ‘cleaner and better’.

If your system already sounds ‘good’, you’ll find that these cables can turn your listening into an overwhelming experience. I listened to one of my favourite tracks and I had tears in my eyes as the track drew to a close. I had never heard it better, ..... the cables had let so much music through it was breathtaking. It really was just like being in the studio sat next to them while they were playing.

Wonderful.

But a word of caution ...... these cables let the music through better than any I’ve heard. But bad recordings, and bad systems won’t become good by using them. You might find, because of all the other variables in your system, that 2 x 1500’s or a 2000 and a 1500 sound right for you. But get it right, experience the magic, and its one of the best investments you’ll make. Give them a try ........ what have you got to lose?
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