View Full Version : Superex Pro B Headphones Questions
I am still listening to and experimenting with the Superex Pro B headphones. I've been experimenting with the crossover a bit trying to make notch filters and L-pads. Goraman or anyone else, do you know the specs for the headphones and the individual drivers: resistance, inductance, etc., any specs you might have? I like the sound-stage and deep bass, but would also like to adjust the balance to bring out the details a bit more. I would just like to know the specs to be able to more accurately experiment with L-pads and notch-filters. I think the Superex have a lot of potential with some minor crossover adjustment.
Thanks
Why L pads and notch filter?The beauty of the whole thing is it's simple circit.
Why would you add a notch filter to narrow the bandwith,this isent ham radio.That would colapes your soundstage.
The pro B iv has much of what you want to add-minus the L pads that would roll off the highs some,while reduceing volume.
The magic was lost in my opinion. To much path.
I had a pair and was very disapointed compaired to the older modles.http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Superex-Professional-PRO-B-VI-Stereo-Headphones-/290457680645?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a0a07b05
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-700
Just order 2 of these caps and use them in place of the little brown ceramic disks.
I rolled a lot of more expencive caps before landing on these.
I have an origanal spec sheet for these phones but the file size is to large to post here.
I added the specs to my Superex thread.
http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6821
The reason it is lacking in detail is the 40+ year old ceramic disk capacitors.
Change them out with the above mentioned audio caps.
And problem solved.
Also the value has shifted some with age,the stock specs where 0.01uf @ 400v.
They sometimes go out compleatly,replace them and your tweeters will wake up.
Hi Jeff and Everyone,
I appreciate all the info on the Superex headphones. They do sound great and have extreme soundstage. They are quite good the way they are, especially with vinyl. Based on my personal HiFi tastes, I would prefer a little more sparkle at the top end. I attached a pic of what I think the stock schematic should look like.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=305
It looks like a first-order series crossover. These are new to me. From what I've read, series crossovers are thought to significantly increase soundstage. This crossover design could be an important part of their sound overall. Apparently successful series crossovers require drivers that roll-off gently with few dips or spikes. There are no calculators online that I can find and no specs on the drivers. From the design one could deduce that the Superex drivers are indeed high quality. I'm now interested in trying a first-order series crossover with my Altecs.
A simple -2 or -3db voltage divider on the woofer should have no effect on the response or impedance curve. Below is where I think the divider should go in the circuit. Any advice on this plan and possible parts value or placement would be appreciated.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=306
Thanks :)
I took them apart and checked continuity on the transformer to find the windings. The transformer has two windings. The following is the correct schematic for the headphones. They are wired in series, but not like the example I found online posted above.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=311
I forgot to mention earlier that I already change the capacitors. I tried both metalized film and PIO. Rewiring with the unused braided silver cable I have might add some detail. Regardless, I'm interested in experimenting with the Superex crossovers just to understand how they work.
I may not have been clear before. For my subjective taste, I would like to attenuate the woofer around 1-3db to make the high frequencies slightly more prominent than they are now.
I understand now,If you want more from the upper end,the silver cable may just be enough.They do go to 22,000 KHZ.
There scematics where never relesed as far as I can tell,and they made there own drivers and most of there own parts is what I was told.
I was also told the woofers have alinco magnets,they where the olny headphones of there kind.
No headphones do a pipe organs low notes so well, E.Power Biggs is a mind blower on them.I belive they go lower than there rateing of 18 Hz. even if there is a little roll off after that. I'm worried attinuating the woofer may degade that.
Post pictures as you go please.
Aslo if you have an email address I can send you a scan of the only info and specs I have ever found for them.PM me if you want that.
I sent it,Hope it helps.If you have the know how to reduce the file size it would be nice to post it.
Hi Jeff and Everyone,
I appreciate all the info on the Superex headphones. They do sound great and have extreme soundstage. They are quite good the way they are, especially with vinyl. Based on my personal HiFi tastes, I would prefer a little more sparkle at the top end. I attached a pic of what I think the stock schematic should look like.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=305
It looks like a first-order series crossover. These are new to me. From what I've read, series crossovers are thought to significantly increase soundstage. This crossover design could be an important part of their sound overall. Apparently successful series crossovers require drivers that roll-off gently with few dips or spikes. There are no calculators online that I can find and no specs on the drivers. From the design one could deduce that the Superex drivers are indeed high quality. I'm now interested in trying a first-order series crossover with my Altecs.
A simple -2 or -3db voltage divider on the woofer should have no effect on the response or impedance curve. Below is where I think the divider should go in the circuit. Any advice on this plan and possible parts value or placement would be appreciated.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=306
Thanks :)
These headphones do things with great sorce meterial no other headphones I've ever tried could come close to.
So menny times I'd have my eyes closed and a small noise in the recording would sound like someone standing next to me and make me jump up and spin my head around to see who it was,only to find it was just a low bass noise or someone from a live audiance to the side of the stage in the recording.
I've often said there is still some majic in audio, and these old phones prove it time and time agein.
As you get more time alone with them you will see that.
I logged at least 7 to 8 years of late night early morning listening 8 sometimes more hours a night 7 days a week. Some times takeing them off to towel the sweat off my ears! with the audio off you can sometimes hear your heart beat from the tenstion on your head,another weird thing about them.
Had my first success with the Superex mods. I took the foam pads out between the screens and tweeters which brought the high frequencies out more.
I may try that by just makeing a small circular hole around the center of the tweeter.
If I don't like it I can awlays replace the foam.
The foam is simple and should be easy to replace. I just pried two staples up and it slid out without ripping.
I got some help and a sketch of the schematic from someone on another forum. The first is the stock schematic. The second is mine with the voltage divider on the woofer. I tried it at -1db on the woofer. R1 is 1 ohm, R2 is 60 ohm. I used vintage Allen Bradley carbon composition resistors. It seems smooth and to be just about the right amount combined with removing the foams. Metal film resistors and silver wire would probably increase the presentation of details even more. The mods may have acutally added resolution and depth to the soundstage. I'll take more time to listen to be sure. After I put new cables on them, I'll make handmade leather ear-pads and headband cushions. These will be my tricked-out vintage headphones.
I've been using them with an Ipod Classic and an Almarro A205A MkII tube integrated amp using CD's and vinyl. I like them as much as much as my other headphones with my tube amp. I need more time to critically discern the differences. With the Ipod I think the loading needs to be adjusted.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=314
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=315
'
someone on another forum even knows about Superex?
I am impressed please show pictures!!!
P.S. I still havent found the broken pair but there is one more storage closet left to plow through. Jeff
What dose lo2 and hi2 mean?
BTW what are your other headphones?
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=55&pictureid=317
High-z and low-z is impedance. A Swedish guy into vintage audio on the AudioAsylum vintage forum said he has two pair of Superex. I put one of your interior photos from this forum (hope you don't mind) up with my schematic drawing to get help. After looking at his corrected drawing from my schematic, I realized what was happening with that transformer. The first winding serves as a low pass filter for the woofer and as a step up transformer to the second winding from low to high impedance for the tweeter to create the correct load for both tweeter and woofer. Pretty cool; it must have been custom wound just for the Superex Pro B.
In my new experiments this evening I disconnected the voltage divider and upped the high pass capacitor to 1uf. I am now fooling around with Zobels. I am getting close to having a sound that is very similar to my Altec speakers.
I have Sennheiser PX100 for Ipod, Sennheiser HD485 for computer, Sennheiser HD580 for tube amp, Superlux HD681 for everything because they kick @ss (new style with better darker color trim not red, smooth mods, and re-cable), the Superlux are my favorite, and Yuin PK3 for wife's Ipod.
The speaker they most remind me of is the Tannoy Westminsters, Not overly bright,big glorius mids and a full rich low end.
I was very impressed with the big Tannoys, Not nearly as much bass or as dramatic as the JBL Imperials I heard but a big and open presentation.
The Imperials where just huge both in size and in there thunderus sound, I remember feeling my beer can vibrate in my hand when Stevie Nicks sang.
I'm still waiting for a pair of Pro B's to come up on eBay.
I'm still waiting for a pair of Pro B's to come up on eBay.
They will sooner or later,vintage headphone collectors sometimes drive the prices up on real clean ones Lebob got lucky and paid very little for an outstanding pair.
They will sooner or later,vintage headphone collectors sometimes drive the prices up on real clean ones Lebob got lucky and paid very little for an outstanding pair.
Yeah, I already regretted not pulling the trigger on a pair the other week - they were green and in mint condition and went for £29. That seems to be the average right now. I can't wait to implement your 'tweaks'.
I can see myself using a headphones based system a lot more in the future, so the Superex with a nice little headphone amp or decent soundcard would suit me well.
Green means pro B Iv, not pro B. Battle ship gray is what you wan't.
The IV's use different cross overs,possable different woofers and the inner framework is also different and the curly cable is horable.
Well, I've gone back down to .047uf on the capacitor. There is too much overlap with the woofer. Somewhere between .1 and .047uf is probably what I will use. The Zobel still seems like it has potential.
From my ham radio days I seem to remember something about the Zobel filter being used to widen freq. responce and increase capacity for weak anologe signals.
Help me if I have this wrong. KC6UJS.
Green means pro B Iv, not pro B. Battle ship gray is what you wan't.
The IV's use different cross overs,possable different woofers and the inner framework is also different and the curly cable is horable.
Noted. Thanks, I'll steer clear of green.
Anyone let me know if you happen to see some - I'm not always alive to what's goin' round, especially on US eBay.
The impedance of drivers often rises towards high frequency cutoff. A simple 1st order crossover can be ineffective where the impedance changes from the design point of the crossover. On the Superex woofer, the first inductor might not be able to filter out mid and high frequencies where the impedance rises. A Zobel might tame some of the midrange spikes and put the tweeter more in charge of high frequencies. I'm just experimenting, not sure how well it will work.
The zobel has been around for along time hasen't it?
Not an off the shelf idem though ,mostly used in anolog comunications.
I'm hopeing at some point youll post pictures.
I finally decided on mods adapted to my listening tastes for the Superex headphones. I increased the capacitor from .01uf to .047uf, removed the foam between the speakers and the screen (I may put it back), and lastly after some experimentation added a parallel notch filter. The sound-stage, bass, and vocal clarity are intact. The honky midrange is lessened and the highs are improved. Overall they compete well with my other headphones. The sound-stage is better than my open headphones. I have come up with values from the parts i have on hand: 470uh, 56ohm, .22uf. If anyone has ideas or suggestions for any of this feel free to contribute.
The next issue is comfort. I'm not sure what be done to improve it.
:worthless:
I finally decided on mods adapted to my listening tastes for the Superex headphones. I increased the capacitor from .01uf to .047uf, removed the foam between the speakers and the screen (I may put it back), and lastly after some experimentation added a parallel notch filter. The sound-stage, bass, and vocal clarity are intact. The honky midrange is lessened and the highs are improved. Overall they compete well with my other headphones. The sound-stage is better than my open headphones. I have come up with values from the parts i have on hand: 470uh, 56ohm, .22uf. If anyone has ideas or suggestions for any of this feel free to contribute.
The next issue is comfort. I'm not sure what be done to improve it.
Lebob,remember I recomended the Audiocap Thea in my other thread?
Well it seems they tend to bring out treble.I may have increased highs myself with out knowing it but next to my 2nd pair with PIO caps the treble is a couple of db. higher with more shimmer.
If you find another pair or have time to try this cap,you may not need to atinuate the driver to get what you wanted.
I don't think his opinion is compleatly right or it might sound different depending on the circit,but it works well in opening up the superex tweeter.
or it could be he never burned in his test cap.
look at around 10 reviews down.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Hey Lebob, new upgrade for you,go to my Superex thread.
A teaser pic for you!
Lebob,You stoll those,check the price on this pair.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120611698681&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
amazingly new from 1968.
These pics are as they came brand new.
I saw that. The person who sold me my pair sent me the link. The Superex have been on my back burner. I am currently working on a Sherwood tube tuner and an external tube Multiplex adapter.
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