MBL 116F Elegance Radialstrahler speakers - Review & Blog

[jandl100]

Got these last Tuesday, just on a week ago.

MBLs have been my Dream Speakers for years but were simply not an option due to the extravagant pricing. But the missus saw me ogling some pics of them on t'internet.
"My dream speakers" I said. :stalks:
"Why don't you get them, then" she said. :rolleyes:
"They cost umpty-ump £K" I said. :(
"Well, get them anyway" she said. :eek:
So I did.

From those nice Scottish fellas at Audio Emotion. On 30 day trial. To save you reading the rest of the review ... I really don't think they are going back.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/MBL1.jpg

Funny looking things, aren't they. Actually, in a Dalek kind of way, they look very impressive. Swmbo likes them, too.
Totally minging if you take off the metal grille, though - luckily (and contrary to some of the reviews of MBL speakers I have seen) they sound fine with the grilles on.

About 4 foot high, with the grilles.
A 4-way design. two 8.5 inch aluminium bass cones, two 5.5 inch lower midrange cones, and one each of those funny Radialstrahler drivers for the upper mids (above about 650Hz) and treble.
One bass driver cone and one lower-mid cone on each side of the cabinet.

Those Radialstrahler drivers are what the speaker is all about, really. Carbon fibre 'petals' arranged in a circle. They flex along with the electrical signal and create a true 360 degree omnidirectional sound source. Clever stuff.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/MBLRadstrahlers.jpg

They are said to need 100 hours to run in, and I can well believe that. On first hearing the bass, the phrase "tight as a duck's arse" sprang immediately to mind, and no real deep bass either. Whoops - these babes can do with loosening up a bit! But after about 30 hours of use so far, they are loosening up and going deeper quite nicely. And while the sound seemed very coherent to start with, that aspect is really coming on song now.

The resolution of fine detail seems easily on a par with the Martin Logan CLS2z full range stats I had last year, but they go deeper & better in the bass and the 3D imaging is definitely superior.

3D imaging? Jeezus H. C on a pushbike. Simply amazing. The musicians are in front of you. Simple as that.

I've been driving them with my little AVI Lab Series integrated. Don't laugh! - a very fine amp with oodles of uncoloured power and control.
But I do wonder how they would be with some valve watts up them ... something tells me that the MBLs would be in their element in many ways with a touch of glass behind them ... so I have a Graaf 5050 valve power amp on order.
Fun times. :)

Anyway, enough prattling for now ... I am sure there is a lot more running in to do and that the sound will continue to change and, hopefully, get even better as the days go happily and musically by.

I shall end this first post with a system pic ....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/MBLsystem-1.jpg

[twelvebears]

Hey Jerry.

Thanks for the post and the pics, great to hear you're getting on well with them.

Will be posting some pics and comments on my new WBs shortly but have decided to wait until the ATC pre/power is in place too and cover off both at once.

Roll-on Friday!

[John]

Great to hear they fitted so well within your system I am really looking forward to hearing what they do with Valves I never really listened to Ommi directional speakers and Imagine they have a very 3d sound

[Alex_UK]

On first hearing the bass, the phrase "tight as a duck's arse" sprang immediately to mind

Does that explain the new Avatar, Jerry? ;)

Glad you're getting on well with them. And you are very lucky to have Mrs Jerry, might I suggest! Enjoy!

[jandl100]

Well, quite a big change yesterday ... I took away the wallmounted GIK Acoustics mid/treble absorbers from behind the speakers (see photo in first post on this thread).

Ah. Wow. Hmmm ... not all room treatments are good for all speakers! Seems that those panels have been turning the MBLs into more of a front-firing speaker than an omni. What was good imaging has just got a fair bit better. Well, an awful lot better actually.

Taking the panel away from behind the listening seat (I sit close to the rear wall) was a bad move, though - that one's a keeper.

I then tried mounting the now-freed-up back panels at the rear corners of the room (same wall as the spejkers) ... ooo, no :scratch:, suddenly the treble openness and sparkle disappears.

So with the MBLs - room treatment behind the speakers is def not advised, the omni thing likes to do its stuff unfettered, although a panel behind the listener works well.

Funny stuff, hifi! - the rear panels had worked well enough with 'normal' speakers.

Listening today to some very large scale music - My Gawd, these things can sling it out! :eek: The only 'home' system I have heard that was as good as this at large scale stuff while remaining clean and tonally neutral belonged to Mick at Unique Audio, he had big Rockport speakers and Jadis JA200 amps and a Rockport turntable. Now that was a mega system! :stalks:

[Stratmangler]

The big MBL's are the only speaker I've heard that can get close to the physicality of sound that a big Church pipe organ creates with all the stops out.

I can imagine that you're very pleased with your 116F's.

[jandl100]

A tale of two amps ....
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/GraafandLyngdorf.jpg

The Graaf 5050 and a Lyngdorf SDAi2175 integrated.
Yup, long-time Jerry-Watchers will recall that I've had a Lyngdorf before and liked it, but I thought I'd try one again as I suspected it would be a fine match for the MBLs.

Very different beasts! The Graaf is about transparency and incisiveness and uber-control alongside a beguiling 3D soundstage, with a somewhat lean tonality; the Lyngdorf majors on relaxed musicality with a warm and succulent midrange.

Without doubt, the Graaf has superior apparent power and grip - even (especially?) in the bass. There is more slam and tautness to be had from the Graaf's 50 watts than the Lyngdorf's 220w ... go figure! :scratch: I daresay that would change if the Graaf's power limits were reached, but I've played some pretty heavy stuff with the combo and it hasn't happened yet!

Which amp is best? Well, neither. Both are excellent in their different ways with the music. I am currently swapping them over every few days and enjoying the different presentations on offer. The Graaf is an exciting ride, but after a while it's nice to return to the more relaxed and gentle musicality of the Lyngdorf. :)

I tried early on bi-amping the 'obvious' way with the Graaf on the mid & treble Radialstrahler units and the Lyngdorf's mighty 220w on the bass - but that didn't seem to gell well at all.
Now that I have sussed out the relative merits of the two amps, I'll hook them up the other way around with the Graaf on the bass. Maybe later today ....

[twelvebears]

I tried early on bi-amping the 'obvious' way with the Graaf on the mid & treble Radialstrahler units and the Lyngdorf's mighty 220w on the bass - but that didn't seem to gell well at all.
Now that I have sussed out the relative merits of the two amps, I'll hook them up the other way around with the Graaf on the bass. Maybe later today ....

Hey Jerry.

Do you know if the gain of the two amps matches? If it doesn't then using different amps is going to throw the HF/LF balance out of wack.

As I've discovered myself, the relative power of the two amps doesn't matter. just the gain.

Dave Rothwell of Rothwell Attenuators will make up custom sets to gain match amps and only charges his normal price for doing so.

[jandl100]

Yeah - the gain is damn close between the 2 amps - when swapping amps I never felt the need to change the volume control setting.

The character of the 2 beasties is just too different for a good match.

[YNWaN]

You seem to enjoy living with the most extraordinary level of clutter Jerry.

I bet the whole thing would sound a lot better if you moved that big telly and pile of equipment from between the speakers.

[jandl100]

Tee Hee Hee ... I tidied up a lot before taking that photo! :lol:

Yeah - I'm a slob, but I'm happy. :carrot: ... perhaps it's just as well we decided not to get married after all, Mark. :lolsign:

[YNWaN]

Hey Jerry - how about an update? Curiously, I am strangely tempted by a pair of these (£18,300.00) speakers - I have always been genuinely impressed when I have heard MBL's.

(I was married - it's so much more tidy now :))

[jandl100]

Update?

Well ....

I'm still very pleased with the speakers, I don't regret the purchase at all.

Could I have spent £xxk differently and got better for my money?
Possibly/probably.
But .... and it's a big but .... I would always have wondered if I'd be happier if I'd bought The Dream, the MBLs, instead. As it is, I am relaxed and just enjoying the speakers. They really don't do much at all that's wrong and easily show up differences in partnering equipment - very handy for a box-swapper like me. :)

I borrowed a pair of Unison Research Unico DM power amps a week or two back for a few days. The idea was a trial swap for my Graaf 5050 amp.
No doubt about it, the UR DMs are better amps in some ways. More clearly focussed soundstage ... a bit too much so, probably. Images were a bit etched, where as the Graaf has a more relaxed and homogenous presentation. In truth, I think I'd like a halfway house between the two! The UR DMs weren't quite right, but the trial has got me trawling the eBay amp listings again! :doh: In fact, there's something that has attracted my interest on auction at the moment. ;)

Also spent an interesting evening at the home of a Wammer a couple of days back. Refurbed Apogee Duettas fed by huge German valve monoblocks (211 direct-heated SET). Cor blimey - stunning attack and transparency, and fabulous on his choice of music ("percussive rock" might be the best description). The system didn't really do classical, though, due to a lack of welly and tonal fullness in the mid/upper bass (deep bass was superb). But that experience has me hankering after more attack and transparency ... am currently in the process of buying some Nordost Red Dawn cables that I suspect will take me along that road. The Apogee system had Red Dawn speaker cables that I feel were a major contributor to the overall speed and clarity of the sound (as well as the lack of mid-bass!). That's my theory anyway! I'll see how it goes - always interesting to experiment with these things.

My EVA2 LDR passive pre-amp has (hopefully temporarily) died. Am in contact with the seller/designer (DIY Paradise) so hopefully can get that sorted - in the meantime I am using the Lexicon MC-1 as a pre-amp. It's fine actually!

Oh, and a Talk Thunder 6 CD player has turned up and has taken up permanent residence (i.e. it didn't get kicked out after a few days, and I expect it to keep me happy for a few months yet :eyebrows:). Sounds bloody good, very pleased with it. It replaced a truly appalling Linn Unidisk SC universal player/pre-amp. That Linn was one of the worst things I have heard for many a year - at first I liked it - wonderful delicate nuance and dynamic shading - but after a few days a lack of tonal and dynamic heft became increasingly evident and annoying to my ears. I ended up loathing the thing with a passion, I couldn't bear to listen to it! I'll never buy a Linn again. Sometimes you just have to accept that a certain approach to music is not for you.

So, in summary, happiness still reigns at Jerry Mansions. The clutter that so appalls Mark is still much in evidence :eyebrows: and I wouldn't have it any other way .... Here's a recent system pic - taken when the Unico DMs were in residence - more pictures on the wall behind the speakers as a) it looks cool to me and b) the MBLs seem to like reflective surfaces behind them.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/System13-7-10.jpg

[YNWaN]

Hmm..unfortunately, I suspect that the 'Red Dawn' is a blind alley (and certainly unsuited to the current hungry Apogees) and what you really need is an altogether more powerful amp.

You description of the Linn electronics does rather parallel my own experience. However, not so long ago I was demonstrated the Urika phono stage and it didn't seem to have this character at all. I'm picking up a sample of the Linn Uphorik, which is the stand-alone phonostage based on the Urika, for loan and evaluation - so we shall see.

There is a Wilson model in the same sort of price range as the MBL - did you not also consider this?

Never mind the clutter - what about the interior decoration! ;)

[jandl100]

Hmm..unfortunately, I suspect .... what you really need is an altogether more powerful amp.

No, I don't agree at all.

As I said, I had a pair of Unico DMs ... bridged they give out 500W each. I don't think the extra power in itself gave me anything extra. It is surprising that the Graaf is up to it, I agree, but in my opinion and in the opinion of two hifi nuts who have visited, it is so.

The guy with the Apogees came around last week - he agreed that the Graaf drives the MBLs just fine, much to his surprise - he had advised me in advance of me buying the Graaf that it wouldn't work. He's the type who would have told me in no uncertain terms if he thought he had been right! In fact, he admitted explicitly that he had been wrong and that the Graaf is fine.

You really have to hear the Graaf with the MBLs ... it really does work! :)

[jandl100]

There is a Wilson model in the same sort of price range as the MBL - did you not also consider this?



There's a whole passle of speakers to be had in that sort of price band.

But as I said in my first post today .....

"Could I have spent £xxk differently and got better for my money?
Possibly/probably.
But .... and it's a big but .... I would always have wondered if I'd be happier if I'd bought The Dream, the MBLs, instead. As it is, I am relaxed and just enjoying the speakers."

I would have just driven myself crazy listening to the various pro's and cons of the different candidates. As it is I bought my dream speaker and am very happy with that decision.

[YNWaN]

OK

[jandl100]

Never mind the clutter - what about the interior decoration! ;)

What's wrong with the interior decoration? Seems fine to me.

Actually, it would be interesting to see a pic of your room so I could see what you thought was an aesthetically pleasing setup. .... I'm kind of expecting it be a stark and antiseptic airport lounge kind of environment. ;)

[YNWaN]

Pretty much - the hi-fi doesn't live in the lounge though as it has its own room.

[jandl100]

Urk. :scratch:
To each their own, eh?!

I'm surprised it's any good sonically - very little in the way of absorbent surfaces, what with that polished wood floor - must be a very bright sounding room. Or is that your living room rather than the hifi den? It's the latter I was enquiring about, really.

Mine's a dedicated hifi/music/me room, too. It's the way I like it. :)

[jandl100]

Errrr ... I thought we were discussing listening rooms. :scratch:

Ah well - whatever. We'll just have to agree that our tastes re: interior design are very different. Whatever you like, enjoy it! :cool:

[YNWaN]

Indeed, a minor concern in the greater scheme of things :).