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jcbrum
05-05-2008, 10:08
Some may be interested in this thread

http://www.hifiwise.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=58&st=0&gopid=280&#entry280

Looks to me like the thing is dead in the water on grounds of price/utility and legality.

(IMHO of course)

Marco
05-05-2008, 10:45
Why in terms of legality, JC? I'm curious; bearing in mind I don't know anything about this product :)

I would like hear the HDX, purely out of curiosity, to assess its performance in comparison to other more 'affordable' products of its type on the market.

In about 6-8 months time, or so, I will be in the market for some form of 'serious' computer audio set-up, which will involve the use of a hi-end media server connected to my Sony DAC, using (probably) Apple's highest performance laptop available at the time to stream lossless music files through my system, so I would like to hear any appropriate recommendations.

I have no fixed budget in mind at the moment, but I would like something firmly of the 'no compromise' variety both in terms of technology/facilities and, most importantly, performance, particularly in terms of sound quality. It will require to be integrated into my existing system in conjunction with an AV set-up, including screen and projector, so the components recommended will need to play both music and movies to the highest standard possible.

I know you don't like Naim, so I'm not exactly expecting an unbiased response from you as far as the HDX is concerned ;)

So what else would you, or anyone else, recommend given the priorities I have outlined above?

Marco.

lurcher
05-05-2008, 11:44
I am not sure what legal problems they would have, it looks as if they have taken measures to prevent files from remote devices being permanantly copied into the machine, and I don't think there are any more issues format shifting a copy protected CD you own than a red book one you own. The RIAA might want you to believe there is, and they would love to get that into law, but they are not there at the moment.

lurcher
05-05-2008, 11:51
Marco, it doesn't address the AV side I am the last person to have a view on that), but why not just buy yourself a squeezebox, run slimserver on your Mac (as Steve was at Owston), get someone to fit puse transformer to the digital output of the squeezebox and connect it to your DAC. It will sound as good as your DAC will allow it, and we know your DAC sounds very good.

Use EAC (if you can on the MAC) to rip your CD's to FLAC and there is no downside :-). Ok, or Apple lossless, but the F in FLAC means something to me.

jcbrum
05-05-2008, 11:57
Why in terms of legality, JC? I'm curious; bearing in mind I don't know anything about this product :)

I would like hear the HDX, purely out of curiosity, to assess its performance in comparison to other more 'affordable' products of its type on the market.

In about 6-8 months time, or so, I will be in the market for some form of 'serious' computer audio set-up, which will involve the use of a hi-end media server connected to my Sony DAC, using (probably) Apple's best laptop available at the time to stream lossless music files through my system, so I would like to hear any appropriate recommendations.

I have no fixed budget in mind at the moment, but I would like something firmly of the 'no compromise' variety both in terms of technology/facilities and, most importantly, performance, particularly in terms of sound quality. It will require to be integrated into my existing system in conjunction with an AV set-up, including screen and projector, so the components recommended will need to play both music and movies to the highest standard possible.

I know you don't like Naim, so I'm not exactly expecting an unbiased response from you as far as the HDX is concerned ;)

So what else would you, or anyone else, recommend given the priorities I have outlined above?

Marco.

OK.

Your vision of your system in six months time is inaccurate in that you don't need a media server and a laptop, they do the same job. it's one or the other. The stunningly good 17" Macbook pro is under 2k but a 700 MacBook will do the same job and sound the same.

The most superb sound possible is a very undemanding task for a good computer designed in the last 12 months or less. Older ones are not worth bothering with unless you are short of the money.

The secret is using the right components and setting it all up correctly. it's not hard but it is a steep learning curve initially for some.

Marco I think you are not particularly short of "pocket money", and you already have a sony laptop, my advice to you is simple. Don't piss about for 6 months, do it now.

1. order a 24" iMac 1200 + vat = 1389 and dedicate it as a music server.

2. ring up Ash and buy ADM9's and tell him to include the correct optical cable.

That's all you need, everything is included, even the reote control. It will be WONDERFUL.

if after 3 months you don't like it and it you haven't learned how to make it outperform your present system, then the resale value is very high.

Stop arguing just DO IT.


JC :)

jcbrum
05-05-2008, 12:03
NB I said IMAC



http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/8352/1064/store.apple.com/Catalog/uk/Images/imac/img/gallery-big-01.jpg

Marco
05-05-2008, 12:06
Nick,

Thanks for that. I must go and hear Mo's set-up with his Squeezebox at some point to form an opinion on doing things that way :)

Marco.

jcbrum
05-05-2008, 12:26
p.s. FWIW IMO etc,

Don't bother with Squeezebox's and similar stuff, you just don't need them, and compared to running without, the sound is worse.

They're for PC's really, although they will work with macs there's just no point.

Apologies to sqb owners, I'm sure you love 'em.

anthonyTD
05-05-2008, 12:27
OK.

Your vision of your system in six months time is inaccurate in that you don't need a media server and a laptop, they do the same job. it's one or the other. The stunningly good 17" Macbook pro is under 2k but a 700 MacBook will do the same job and sound the same.

The most superb sound possible is a very undemanding task for a good computer designed in the last 12 months or less. Older ones are not worth bothering with unless you are short of the money.

The secret is using the right components and setting it all up correctly. it's not hard but it is a steep learning curve initially for some.

Marco I think you are not particularly short of "pocket money", and you already have a sony laptop, my advice to you is simple. Don't piss about for 6 months, do it now.

1. order a 24" iMac 1200 + vat = 1389 and dedicate it as a music server.

2. ring up Ash and buy ADM9's and tell him to include the correct optical cable.

That's all you need, everything is included, even the reote control. It will be WONDERFUL.

if after 3 months you don't like it and it you haven't learned how to make it outperform your present system, then the resale value is very high.

Stop arguing just DO IT.


JC :)
marco, jc, ashley,
here is an idea, since it dosent look like the avi day out is going to happen, why not ask ashley to provide you with a pair of adm9's and recomend a lap top, and let you compare the two systems in the comfort of your own home, and if you dont think that its better than your current system, ashley agree's to take them back with no charge, i think if he is that confident he would do it, i would, and have done, then marco can give his opinion on the whole thing!
just a thought...:)
anthony...;)

jcbrum
05-05-2008, 12:48
You don't need another laptop you've already got a Sony Vaio.

Just get the iMac and use it as a file server, I'll show you how to configure the Vaio as a remote streaming device controller later but you won't need it initially.

If you need to reduce the budget to a minimum use a MacMini 399 but an iMac has a really superb display for Library Display, and simultaneous music videos. (Beyonce, Christine Aguilera, Madonna, Ken Dodd etc).

anthonyTD
05-05-2008, 12:53
marco, jc, ashley,
here is an idea, since it dosent look like the avi day out is going to happen, why not ask ashley to provide you with a pair of adm9's and recomend a lap top, and let you compare the two systems in the comfort of your own home, and if you dont think that its better than your current system, ashley agree's to take them back with no charge, i think if he is that confident he would do it, i would, and have done, then marco can give his opinion on the whole thing!
just a thought...:)
anthony...;)

any replies???

Ian Walker
05-05-2008, 13:02
Tip:Just go out and get one of these.
http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/X5000/x5000_tech_specs.shtml




Bet you knew that was comin:lol:

Marco
05-05-2008, 13:08
Tip:Just go out and get one of these.
http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/X5000/x5000_tech_specs.shtml




Bet you knew that was comin:lol:


LOL.

Yep it's definitely in the equation, mate. I just want to suss what else is out there, and to see if it's justified spending any more money :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
05-05-2008, 13:13
Marco,I had Mo round at the weekend with his squeezebox,as I'm thinking about going down this route.Now his is extensively modified-black gates and silver-wired throughout by Red Wine Audio.Interestingly,we came to the same conclusion as when he took it round to Nick's place,in that we could tell no difference between using the squeezebox straight into the amp,and using it through my Beresford dac.This then doesn't seem to say much about the output stage on the squeezebox,but of course the idea would be to use it with a much better dac.I've two cd players,an Arcam cd63 bought new and a Pioneer PDS505 that I picked up at Cash Converters for 19.99.I know these are not exactly the last word in cd replay,but the Pioneer is well-known as a pretty good transport.We compared the squeezebox to the players on their own,then each player through the beresford,then the squeezebox on it's own and finally the squeezebox through the beresford.The upshot was that the squeezebox lost nothing to the cd players,so it would seem that the route to go down for me would be a squeezebox with the best dac I can get.It would be interesting to compare the squeezebox to a top-notch transport such as yours,but I don't think there would be a significant difference as it all seems to be on the quality of the dac.This all seems good news to me,as there will be no need to spend a lot of money on a transport,but instead spend it all on a very good dac.I'm sure Mo would contribute his impressions,but he's banned for some reason :confused:

Regards,Ali.

Marco
05-05-2008, 13:28
Hi Ali,

Great post, mate. I'm just in the middle of doing something right now so I'll comment later :smoking:

Mo's banning was a mistake, and unfortunate, but his ban has now been removed and he should be able to post. If that's not the case please let me know and I will sort it out :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
05-05-2008, 13:49
No worries Marco.I forgot to mention in my post that I will be coming into possession of an Audio Note dac 0 at the end of the month,so will be getting Mo round again to try the squeezebox on that.Should be a significant upgrade from the Beresford I hope! Anyone here used one before?

Ian Walker
05-05-2008, 16:16
Hurry up Marco i'm waiting to read about our exploits with the Helios,Sony,DAS R1 and CDS2...................................Lazy sod slouches off:)

Chris Frost
05-05-2008, 16:19
Some may be interested in this thread

http://www.hifiwise.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=58&st=0&gopid=280&#entry280

Looks to me like the thing is dead in the water on grounds of price/utility and legality.

(IMHO of course)
JC really does post some of most puerile drivel.


Marco: "Why in terms of legality, JC? I'm curious; bearing in mind I don't know anything about this product"Marco, I presume you already know the answer and that you were simply trying to see what sort of bollocks JC would post as reasons.

If your question was genuine then the answer is "there is really no problem at all" - well for music at least. DVD's are another matter.

Regards

Marco
05-05-2008, 19:28
JC really does post some of most puerile drivel.


Hi Chris,

He does indeed, and he won't be getting the opportunity to post more as he has been banned for a week. His 'poodle-in-tow' Mr James is banned for the foreseeable future.

My question was genuine because I don't know anything about the HDX. What I'd like to know is if 'hi-end' computer audio products, like the HDX, are worth the extra expenditure and if they offer genuinely superior performance to well-known 'mainstream' products currently on the market, or is one simply paying for a 'badge'?

Marco.

Marco
05-05-2008, 19:33
Marco,I had Mo round at the weekend with his squeezebox,as I'm thinking about going down this route.Now his is extensively modified-black gates and silver-wired throughout by Red Wine Audio.

Hi Ali,

I would like to hear this, as I like Mo's methodology and can see merit in his approach of modifying an existing excellent product with high quality components. I have had great success in the past doing this with the likes of my CDP and T/T.

We must arrange a little bake-off sometime soon :)

Marco.

Marco
05-05-2008, 19:35
Hurry up Marco i'm waiting to read about our exploits with the Helios,Sony,DAS R1 and CDS2...................................Lazy sod slouches off:)

Where does the CDS2 come into it, mate? :scratch:

Marco.

Marco
05-05-2008, 22:28
Ok, I getcha ;)

Marco.

Chris Frost
05-05-2008, 22:31
My question was genuine because I don't know anything about the HDX. What I'd like to know is if 'hi-end' computer audio products, like the HDX, are worth the extra expenditure and if they offer genuinely superior performance to well-known 'mainstream' products currently on the market, or is one simply paying for a 'badge'?
Well now, that is a very 'big' question.

I have spent the last 18 months working very closely with a company developing a digital media server/player system in the hope of reaching a personal Holy Grail - something that beats a pile of standalone boxes yet works as simply and reliably.

FYI I'm approaching this from the point of view of a Videophile as much as an Audiophile. In the course of this investigation I have looked at quite a few other solutions - MediaMax, Idyl, Kaleidoscope, Imerge, and others. So far nothing I have found quite manages to tick all the boxes.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a HDX when it launches to hear how it compares to a stand alone Naim players under 5K.

Marco
05-05-2008, 22:56
Nice one, Chris. Keep me posted of developments. I'm also interested from the perspective of a 'videophile', as the HDX *could* be the hub of my future AV/computer audio set-up, and you'll be the man installing it all :smoking:

I intend to listen to one myself, and compare what it has to offer to other more 'affordable options'. I'm going to be doing a lot of research and auditioning over the next 12 months as far as this stuff is concerned to ascertain if it's worth spending serious money on something 'hi-end' or not. Nothing is out of the equation at the moment. I'm afraid the HDX, though, and products like it, is an itch I'm going to have to scratch! ;)

Marco.

Chris Frost
05-05-2008, 23:38
I know that Geoff at Acoustica in Chester is looking to get into the NaimNet/HDX range this summer. Could be a good place to start evaluating.

Marco
05-05-2008, 23:45
Or perhaps at 'Adventures in Hi-fi' - the other Naim dealers in Chester? They've got marginally better dress sense than Geoff :lol:

;)

Marco.

Steve Toy
05-05-2008, 23:46
Oh dear, the Geoff/Marco interface definitely needs some work. :(

Marco
05-05-2008, 23:49
Hehe... Indeed. I'm not quite sure I want to contribute towards the purchase of another one of his cars ;)

How's the copper amp doing, Jimmy?

Marco.

Steve Toy
06-05-2008, 01:00
Jimmy?

Chris Frost
06-05-2008, 03:54
Or perhaps at 'Adventures in Hi-fi' - the other Naim dealers in Chester? They've got marginally better dress sense than Geoff :lol: LOL.

Oh yes. I'd forgotten about Pinky & Perky ;)

Marco
06-05-2008, 06:35
Jimmy?


Yes it's your new name, Brenda.

Chris,

Have you dealt with Rob and Steve? :)

4.54am... Bloody hell, did the wife kick you out of bed or something? :lol:

Marco.

Chris Frost
06-05-2008, 08:59
4.54am... Bloody hell, did the wife kick you out of bed or something?No mate, the dog farted ;)

Yes I knew Steve and Rob from waaaay back when they used to help out at Geoff's many moons ago. I've kept in touch through business when they were at Wigan and latterly Chester, although it's a good 2yrs since I did any work for them at Chester.

Regards

Marco
06-05-2008, 09:15
Farking 'ell your dog must have a potent arse! :lol:

Yeah, Rob and Steve seem to be doing quite well since moving from Wigan. They've got an excellent spot there in Chester; one which I'm sure Mr Coleman is extremely envious of ;)

Marco.

Chris Frost
06-05-2008, 09:42
Yeah, Rob and Steve seem to be doing quite well since moving from Wigan. They've got an excellent spot there in Chester; one which I'm sure Mr Coleman is extremely envious of ;) I take it you and Geoff have some, err..., history then :sofa:

Marco
06-05-2008, 09:54
LOL. I'll fill you in when we next chat ;)

Marco.

Marco
07-05-2008, 23:46
http://www.naim-audio.com/products/hdx.html

What particularly intrigues me is this:


Unique Naim firmware effectively handles copy protected CDs that in most other hard disk music players are likely to be ripped with compromised audio quality. The same firmware also overcomes the track start and end errors that occur in most other hard disk players.


Now that sounds like a genuine audiophile consideration and appeals to my purist sensibilities :)

Can anyone tell me if this facility is available with other similar products or is the HDX the only one to do this?

Marco.