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Tarzan
15-01-2010, 17:39
Hi all, having sold my Volvere, l am looking for a MM cartridge for my stock Techie, except for a Sumiko headshell,any l would like a full, smooth and musical cart with low surface noise, l am currently using lowly Stanton, but it ticks some of the way the boxes, but l know l could do better,any recommendations appreciated- no bright cartridges, thanks for looking:)

freem
15-01-2010, 19:45
Hi all, having sold my Volvere, l am looking for a MM cartridge for my stock Techie, except for a Sumiko headshell,any l would like a full, smooth and musical cart with low surface noise, l am currently using lowly Stanton, but it ticks some of the way the boxes, but l know l could do better,any recommendations appreciated- no bright cartridges, thanks for looking:)

Hi Andy

When I got my 1210 I started with a Grado Prestige Gold which I liked a lot and to me had the qualities you mention. I then started to upgrade and got a Musicmaker 3, which as you may know is a reworked Gold.

I still have the Gold with only a few hours on it. Yours for half price if you're interested.

DSJR
15-01-2010, 20:43
A goodie Stanton like the current 681EEE mk3 is a refined, slightly gentle but good sounding cartridge for £85 on fleabay. it used to be priced alongside the Shure V15 series and ADC's/Empires etc and if they were made now, they'd be around £300 - £400..

The AT120e and 440MLa are refined and neutral cartridges and Dave Cawley even sells them pictured in a Techie arm...

If you really want an overtly coloured, over-warm-rose-tinted balance, look no further than the Grado range, although the lighter Techie stock shell may be better for these, as the Grado's used to have little damping inside them.

A good universal and pleasant sounding cartridge for the Techie, but not an MM, is the high-output MC Denon DL110, which can be bought at a reasonable price again if you shop very carefully (it suddenly jumped in price way outside the currency situation a year or so ago). It's a forgiving cartridge, shouldn't over-drive the arm mechanically and plays straight into a MM phono stage.

Gazjam
16-01-2010, 00:19
Andy/ Paul,

if you guys dont settle something for the cart I might be interested...

How much would the Cart be going for, at half price?

Thanks!
:)

Marco
16-01-2010, 01:05
Hi all, having sold my Volvere, l am looking for a MM cartridge for my stock Techie, except for a Sumiko headshell,any l would like a full, smooth and musical cart with low surface noise, l am currently using lowly Stanton, but it ticks some of the way the boxes, but l know l could do better,any recommendations appreciated- no bright cartridges, thanks for looking:)

Hi Andy,

Up to what price? Once I know that, I can recommend a few options :)

Marco.

dmckean
16-01-2010, 04:37
Stay away from the Audio Technica and Ortofon MM carts. They're all a little bit bright a clinical sounding.

The Grado isn't a bad choice and the Technics tables have no problems with them. They can pick up motor noise and hum on other tables. The nice thing about the Technics arm is it's low to medium mass and will accept about any cartridge you throw on it. You can use a light headshell for something like the Grado. You can also add weight to the headshell and couterweight and use lower compliance carts like the Denon DL-103 a lot of us use here.

The Nagaoka MP-110 will get you a nice smooth midrange. Just don't use the cheap headshell screws that come with it. The entire line of Shure carts have great midrange and bass. I like the SC35C, M35S and the M97xE. The SC35C and M35S have a conical stylus and track at 3 to 5 grams so they're not for everyone.

--Dave

Tarzan
16-01-2010, 08:24
Hi Marco, up to say £100, l must admit l must admit the Stanton 681 EEE appeals and the Shures, but have not heard these carts- keep the suggestions coming:).

freem
16-01-2010, 09:26
Andy/ Paul,

if you guys dont settle something for the cart I might be interested...

How much would the Cart be going for, at half price?

Thanks!
:)

£65. Less than 20 hours use.

MartinT
16-01-2010, 13:43
Andy

A Denon DL-110 may tick all your boxes. It certainly makes music and makes you listen to it. Absolute bargain in the hi-fi market.

DSJR
16-01-2010, 13:49
The Shure 97Xe would be the Shure to go for, but I've read they are variable. The 55E is a relic from a bygone age and has a suckout followed by a NASTY spike at 15KHz which can play havoc with some phono stages...

The BBC abandoned the SC35 Shure in favour of the Ortofon OM Pro, which apparently treats records rather better long-term..

Your choice guv. The Grado at a good price would a be smooth and sweet toned, but not truthful to what's really there IMO. Still, when did accuracy ever get in the way of a good sound? :lolsign:

Beobloke
16-01-2010, 22:47
The Shure 97Xe would be the Shure to go for, but I've read they are variable. The 55E is a relic from a bygone age......:lolsign:

To be honest the 97Xe is a bit of an old clunker as well. Personally I'd nominate a Goldring 1042 if you subscribe to the "all Ortofons and ATs are harsh and evil" theory!

Marco
16-01-2010, 23:11
Hi Andy,


Hi Marco, up to say £100, l must admit l must admit the Stanton 681 EEE appeals and the Shures, but have not heard these carts- keep the suggestions coming:).

The Stanton's definitely a viable option, as is the Shure SC35C. Both will give you the qualities you're looking for; the Shure has better bass, and the Stanton is a little more open and expressive in the midrange.

Incidentally, when I use my SC35C I track it at 2.5g, and it works much better for hi-fi purposes like that - only DJs would want to use downforces of 3 and 4g with it!!

*However*, the stand out sub-£100 MM cartridge for me is the Nagaoka MP-10 @ £62.50 (see here):

http://www.musonic.co.uk/cartridges-nagaoka-c-4_22.html

I've heard one of these at length on my own Techy and it's an absolute corker for the money. In my opinion it outperforms the 1042 Adam recommends in the areas important to you, punches way above its lowly price level, and strapped to a Sumiko headshell will suit the stock Techy arm down to the ground.

Quite simply, buy with confidence :cool:

Marco.

P.S Adam, HFW should promote the Nagaokas along with the Goldrings and ATs you guys love!

dmckean
17-01-2010, 05:02
P.S Adam, HFW should promote the Nagaokas along with the Goldrings and ATs you guys love!

I can't figure out why nobody gets excited about these carts. I had a MP-11 on my Rega for years and loved it.

--Dave

dmckean
17-01-2010, 05:12
To be honest the 97Xe is a bit of an old clunker as well.

All the Shure cartridges are kind of old outdated designs but that's a large part of their charm.

Marco
17-01-2010, 07:57
Hi Dave,


I can't figure out why nobody gets excited about these carts. I had a MP-11 on my Rega for years and loved it.


I know - they're fab, and they give tremendous bang for your back, too!

What gets me with magazine recommendations (sorry Adam) is that they always offer 'obvious' mainstream recommendations - there's little evidence of lateral thinking to offer instead more 'left-field' options.

Not everyone wants to own the boring 'usual suspects', as it were, so chaps let's cast the net out a little further in future, because doing so often means that you land the real gems! :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
17-01-2010, 10:01
Back in the day, the Nagaoka's and excellent old techie EPC205 III sounded too brightly lit on Linn/Naim systems, so it was the cartridges that were wrong, not the systems they were played through - NOT!

ALL later Shures need careful loading, plenty of capacitance to minimise treble droop and/or a slightly raised impedance. I still advise caution on the SC35C, as the beeb wouldn't have abandoned it so readily if there wasn't a very good reason.

Mr Beobloke, the 1042 is far too expensive these days and tends to sound leaden, rather than powerful, with a one-note fizz in the treble. Twenty years ago, it was a life-saver for those dealers like us, who were chucked off the Linn tour bus, but technology and prices have had a substantial re-alignment in recent years and the DL110 is so cheap now when compared with its once similar priced competition.....

I haven't heard the new Goldrings though, so can't say if they're a genuine improvement or just a re-style..


Thanks to marco, I must repeat my recommendation for the latest 681EEE. It's SO cheap at £85 and tracks well, without loading low mass arms unduly. The mid is superb, the treble nothing like as dull as I remember it being and the bass is clean, if not as powerful and punchy as modern models...

kcc123
17-01-2010, 10:55
I think, besides the Stanton, the NOS Ortofon M20FL Super is another good alternative that one can take a serious consideration.

Tarzan
17-01-2010, 11:19
Is the Ortofon smooth?

DSJR
17-01-2010, 11:56
Where is the M20FL Super? William Thacker had one IIRC and I bought a NOS stylus for my M20E Super (same body) last year.

Where the M20E Super has a totally beguiling sweetness and lack of nasties, if rather high compliance, the 20 FL Super is a dryer and more "Moving Coil" like performer, its lower compliance needing a massy arm if the soundstage is to become three dimensional, something the E version does so effortlessly. I found the FL tip to excel at side end and overall tracking is excellent.

All I have against the M20FL Super is that any surving NOS ones will be 30 years old by now and the slight "dryness" I mentioned may just be old age, as I remember at the time it being a perfect match to the Dual 701 I still use (I added a lead headshell weight from my Ortofon tool kit to help it out). I've read that the penultimate current Ortofon mm takes over where the 20FL left off, but it's £300 or more though..

kcc123
17-01-2010, 12:39
Hi Dave,

The M20FL Super has a compliance of 20cu which is considered to be high as well, so it also needs a low to medium mass arm, contrary to what you have just said.
A few months ago I bought a NOS M20FL Super at EUR 129 form William Thacker for spare. I have not tried and compared it with my original one yet. So far, I have not had any issues with my old M20FL or any other cartridges of similar age in my possession.

DSJR
17-01-2010, 14:32
The FL had reduced compliance when compared to the 20E varient, easily borne out on comparison. The FL plays at a higher weight too (1.7 as against 1.25 or so). HiFi Choice gave it a sincere Best Buy as well.

My caution is purely on the sample of stylus I bought last year and the sound quality when comparing with other cartridges I have (I do have a collection all mounted up and ready to go..) perhaps the stylus suspension needs many hours to bed in, but my sample in my deck preferred extra mass added to bring the air and space out. There's no instability issue, so I'll keep it this way for now (and enjoy the Stilton OC9/AT630 which is sounding grand right now). By the way, mine has a CAP210 fitted..

The thing is, the AT440MLa is a brand new cartridge with readily available NEW styli to replace tired old ones. I believe the body is the same family as the 120E so a latter could theoretically be upgraded(?)..

Beobloke
18-01-2010, 12:12
P.S Adam, HFW should promote the Nagaokas along with the Goldrings and ATs you guys love!

Actually, Noel's a fan of the new Nagaoka MP-x00 series cartridges and quite often mentions them. I have enjoyed the ones I've heard as well but I'd still personally go for a Goldring 1000, 2000 or Ortofon 2M series - sorry! ;)

DSJR
18-01-2010, 17:54
I thought Noel (or was it Dave) liked the Ortofons too...

I have an MP15 in mint nick. How different is the current one (MP150)?

dmckean
18-01-2010, 19:33
I have an MP15 in mint nick. How different is the current one (MP150)?

The updated ones have some updates like plastic bodies that are reinforced with carbon fiber and a different shielding.

Tarzan
19-01-2010, 14:43
Thanks for all the replies, l bottled it and went with Stanton sound, which l was used to, l got the 681 EEE, with a Sumiko headshell----- and l am one happy camper, for the money( not a lot in hifi terms) l would say it is quite an incredible bargain, the Cart and headshell, l set it up after coming home from nightwork:doh:,but l must have the set-up pretty good, because it sounds so good, anyway, l am going to ask plenty of questions, regarding my new SL1200 MK2/Sumiko headshell/681EEE, l am off for a nap, one happy music lover, thanks again for all the help:):goodnight:

DSJR
19-01-2010, 16:04
For £85, you're getting a bargain I reckon. The Sumiko may not be necessary at the mo, but it's a great headshell for future use. I use the plastic isolators on the Stanton, which decouple the cartridge body from the metal headshell, you may prefer to use conventional bolts and nuts, in which case the little earthing strap connecting either the blue or white labelled connectors to the body of the cartridge, which will then be earthed via the headshell and arm..

Set tracking weight to around 1.25 grammes (unless told otherwise) and then check out Dave Cawley's wise suggestions for Techie tweaking and do it in the order suggested...

:cool: