Examples of an apparent downgrade being an upgrade...?

[Bonky]

A 'downgrade' here being defined as swapping one or two devices for an older and/or cheaper unit(s) and hearing an improvement in SQ (not just a change)

I've got, besides other things, a Sugden A21a amp and Living Voice Speakers ("a match made in Heaven"). I've temporarily ditched the Sugden and got a Tisbury pre-amp and Quad 306 (modified by DADA/RedHill). I view this as an upgrade as I think the definition/soundstage etc etc etc is better. Quad 99 is in the pipeline as I like the Quad sound (at present RedHillAudio is 'breathing' over it as I speak).

Do others have the experience - I hesitate to say 'less-is-more' - of getting older and/or cheaper items actually improving their present systems?

(Thanks BTW to a forum member advising the 306 - I owe you a drink!)

BW

Usual disclaimers!

[Ian7633]

I changed ml LP12/Ittok for a Toshiba SR-370/SME3009S2, cost around a third as much as the Linn, put my Ortofon 2m Black on it and definitely heard a much more listenable result. I wouldn't go back if you paid me.

[jandl100]

Oh, easy. :)

My Philips Black Tulip 270 pre-amp and 390 power amps are the best sounding that I have heard - cost me £50 and £140 resp, and I have owned many multi-£k components.
Same story for my £75 Xiang Sheng DAC-01A.

[Sherwood]

We are conditioned to think that there is a (largely) linear relationship between price and performance. Indeed, many companies within the hifi industry spend huge sums of money in marketing to drive home this notion. It is not true. First of all, some companies benefit from the halo effect conferred by their elite products. At one point, I am sure that Linn and Naim could have marketed a toilet brush for £99 if it carried their respective logos and some psychobabble marketing blurb about innovative design, fancy materials, or technology borrowed from Nasa or Formula 1! Bottom line is that not all high end products are as great as we are led to believe, and likewise, not all budget products produced by upmarket companies benefit from their higher level products.

Yes, it is possible for some products to sound better than the higher priced components they replace. This may be the result of superior performance but it could be that they just mesh better with other parts of the system. This really drives home the importance of "listening". Make no assumptions. Listen for yourself. Your ears are the only tools you need to judge!

Geoff

[struth]

Yup, Ive downgraded the cost of my system but think it deffo sounds better for it. I might be the only one who thinks it of course, but I'm the one that counts. Trouble is I have lots of spare gear again:D

[Frazeur1]

We are conditioned to think that there is a (largely) linear relationship between price and performance. Indeed, many companies within the hifi industry spend huge sums of money in marketing to drive home this notion. It is not true.

Yes, it is possible for some products to sound better than the higher priced components they replace. This may be the result of superior performance but it could be that they just mesh better with other parts of the system. This really drives home the importance of "listening". Make no assumptions. Listen for yourself. Your ears are the only tools you need to judge!

Geoff

I agree with your words here. Also while there is the thing about price to performance, I believe another little thing happens with "downgrades"-those cheaper items that do replace more expensive ones, and all of a sudden, wow, best thing since sliced bread. Everyone, well, most, love a world beater, the giant slayer, the seemingly so cheap item that absolutely destroys all that went before it. The underdog thing. Many things come into play here with both sides, tricks of the mind, the wallet, the whatever. We can lead ourselves at times to believe so many things, even if we really don't want to believe.

Ultimately, time to really listen is the key. Some things take longer than others but worth the effort in the long run.

[Yomanze]

Putting a pair of £200 Royd Sapphires in front of a £10k system really opened my eyes. Yeah my Amphion Argon3s were more transparent, flatter response, more power handling, more detailed etc., but the Sapphires, and then the Sorcerers that I got for £350 were just more musical and involving. Eventually I moved up to Royd RR3s, which I guess wouldn't be considered as a downgrade to the Amphions, but it put me on a path & have ended up with a system I just don't want to change.

[paulf-2007]

I sold my PX25 monos for £1000 and bought a Sony STR6055 receiver for £69, bass is better so an improvement in that sense, tbh I doubt it's better than the PX25 in the midrange but not being able to swap them I've forgotten about any differences and enjoying my budget amp. Also using the inbuilt phono stage and not missing my stand alone stages, one sold and the Haden Boardman stage soon to be put up for sale.

[Theadmans]

The £20 delivered from Amazon Jays V-Jays headphones are great - sometimes I prefer them to my Sennheiser HD650s and sometimes I don't - nice to have the choice though.

[Yomanze]

The £20 delivered from Amazon Jays V-Jays headphones are great - sometimes I prefer them to my Sennheiser HD650s and sometimes I don't - nice to have the choice though.

Yup they're absolute gems the V-Jays.

[nthall]

I think my current setup is the cheapest it has been in 15 years, and I'm happy with it.

I'm really impressed by the Micro Seiki DD-35 and it was one of their low-end models. I paid $250 after getting an offer for my TD-125 that I didn't have to think about. A tonearm rewire, and some new cables, and it has been on the top shelf of my rack longer than anything has in a long time.

[fatmarley]

Dynaudio contour 1.3se to kef coda 8 - The Kefs were so much more musical.

[walpurgis]

Dynaudio contour 1.3se to kef coda 8 - The Kefs were so much more musical.

Hmm. I went from Contour 1.3 Mk.II back to a pair of Tannoy Eatons at a third of the price and gave a sigh of relief.

[alphaGT]

A friend was building a 2 channel stereo for his "Man Cave", and he had an Adcom amp and pre, a few other items he bought used for super cheap. So, I found some Cerwin Vega speakers near by for $99 US, and the result was amazing! I mean it sounded fantastic, in many ways it surpassed my $10K rig at home! Just crystal clear and played very loud without any breakup, nothing pretty to look at but most impressive.


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[Macca]

! I mean it sounded fantastic, in many ways it surpassed my $10K rig at home! Just crystal clear and played very loud without any breakup, nothing pretty to look at but most impressive.




Yep, no amount of foo or fancy casework, or 'the latest technology' will ever substitute for getting the basics right. Easy to get distracted from what actually matters in this hi-fi game.

[Sherwood]

Mentioned this elsewhere: when I replaced my solid state Rogers A75 amp with a knackered old Rogers Cadet 3. Completely, transformed the sound of my Rogers LS35a speakers.

[nthall]

Yep, no amount of foo or fancy casework, or 'the latest technology' will ever substitute for getting the basics right. Easy to get distracted from what actually matters in this hi-fi game.
Agreed. Too many people worry about the next piece they need to add more than setting up what they already have properly.

Those Cerwin Vega speakers have always been a steal. I keep a couple of them around for when I want to really crank it up.

[Macca]

They are pretty rare here, once we had 'Flat earth' at the end of the 'Seventies they and JBL fell out of favour. I don't think CV even have a UK distributor now.

[nthall]

They're still selling basically the same models that they did in they 70s here. If you put some power behind them they sound really good.

[Macca]

Totally agree. High sensitivity, big bass driver in a big cab. Hard formula to screw up.

[alphaGT]

Most of the CV's I see here in the states new are more like PA speakers than house speakers, with black textured finishes and metal grills. And their trademark red foam surrounds. No woodgrain cabinets, furniture looking pieces, or small speakers to speak of.


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[speedracer]

Back end of last year I needed to raise some cash urgently so sold my much loved Triode Corp. 845 SET & almost shed a tear when collected, but the replacement, a much modified Art Audio Quintet sounded a better match for the rest of my kit, indeed many who have heard both say the same, even when partnered by different components.
Cost less than half too!

[Alp]

I got rid of various VDH speaker cables and interconnects and replaced them with Van Damme cables for a fraction of the price. Also replaced a pair of Linn LK140s with 4 Temple Audio Monoblocks. Both resulted in big improvements and left me with cash to spare.

[Dynamics]

My upgrades have almost always seen improvements except a few cable changes but I think that's more matching. I Started with £1k tannoy dc6tse speakers then went to £2400 pmc 20-23, now to £3k pmc 25-23 (with part ex) and all an improvement. So to with cyrus amps starting with a 6dac and now having signature kit.

One big improvement was going from naim naca5 speaker wire at £25/m which audio t in Brighton sold me which I didn't like, and going to chord silver screen at £6.20/m. The chord was so much more balanced, musical, hearing layers of music and dynamics better too.