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337alant
02-02-2017, 07:39
Ballfinger are proposing to build a New R2R, see web site for model M063

http://www.ballfinger.de/

http://www.ballfinger.de/tape-recorder-m-063

Click translate page in Chrome

Mod please move to R2R section sorry

Alan

Lodgesound
02-02-2017, 12:01
Looks lovely - I imagine the price will be staggering.

I am guessing at between £10 000 and £18 000...

Although these figures sound high they are comparable on a relative scale to the cost of such a machine (for home use) measured against an average salary in 1971.

Studio recorders at the time such as the Studer A80 literally cost the same as a house.

337alant
02-02-2017, 16:16
It wouldn't surprise me Stuart if you are right with the pricing when you look at what goes into a R2R some are a masterpiece of engineering :stalks:
Compare that with some of the ridiculously priced turntables, arms and Carts out there:scratch:

Alan

paulf-2007
03-02-2017, 01:25
As lovely as is it looks a lack of recorded tapes means it's of little use for home. I would love to be able to buy tapes of my music. There seems little point in recording from say vinyl onto tape.
How are you keeping Stewart?

337alant
03-02-2017, 07:47
I don't buy any of the pre recorded stuff any more as the ones I bought years ago were of such poor sound quality, and I have never been fortunate enough to come across and master tapes
Too hear the best of R2R I record directly from an output from my DAC or Phono Stage with superb results IMO, I like to make up compilation tapes like I used to with Cassette, I still used my R2Rs a lot.

There are some company's that are producing pre recorded tapes from master sources.
http://tapeproject.com/
http://http//www.openreelrecords.com
http://www.opus3records.com/
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/wpsite/home/?/home
https://www.yarlungrecords.com/#piivonen1
http://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/premonition_records.htm

New Tape stock is still available from RTM (Recording the masters formally RMG / Pyral) and ATR Magnetics
https://atrtape.com/
http://www.recordingthemasters.com

Alan

Ali Tait
03-02-2017, 08:50
As lovely as is it looks a lack of recorded tapes means it's of little use for home. I would love to be able to buy tapes of my music. There seems little point in recording from say vinyl onto tape.
How are you keeping Stewart?

I record a lot of stuff from Sky Arts HD, some of the gigs are superb sound quality.

paulf-2007
03-02-2017, 10:50
I don't buy any of the pre recorded stuff any more as the ones I bought years ago were of such poor sound quality, and I have never been fortunate enough to come across and master tapes
Too hear the best of R2R I record directly from an output from my DAC or Phono Stage with superb results IMO, I like to make up compilation tapes like I used to with Cassette, I still used my R2Rs a lot.

There are some company's that are producing pre recorded tapes from master sources.
http://tapeproject.com/
http://http//www.openreelrecords.com
http://www.opus3records.com/
http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/wpsite/home/?/home
https://www.yarlungrecords.com/#piivonen1
http://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/premonition_records.htm

New Tape stock is still available from RTM (Recording the masters formally RMG / Pyral) and ATR Magnetics
https://atrtape.com/
http://www.recordingthemasters.com

Alani use Spotify to compile a list of songs I've found and liked and very diverse it is too.

topoxforddoc
03-02-2017, 13:22
To be unveiled in Germany tomorrow, I believe :)

Real, not vapourware.

Beobloke
03-02-2017, 13:36
I'll be honest, I'm more excited by their turntable...

http://www.ballfinger.de/turntable-ps-2

Barry
03-02-2017, 13:43
I'll be honest, I'm more excited by their turntable...

http://www.ballfinger.de/turntable-ps-2

Moi aussi.

Cas
03-02-2017, 13:56
That looks very nice indeed, best start saving :)

topoxforddoc
04-02-2017, 10:09
It's been unveiled - Eur 27 k.

That sum will cause some consternation, but I calculated the 2016 cost of my Sony APR5003 and Studer A807/II, allowing for inflation only (not small production quantities). The Studer would be £36 k and the Sony £25 k now.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj516/topoxforddoc/Ballfinger%20R2R.jpg (http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/topoxforddoc/media/Ballfinger%20R2R.jpg.html)

337alant
04-02-2017, 13:39
Bloody Hell :stalks::eek:
Thats OTT IMO

Alan

struth
04-02-2017, 13:44
Moved... sorry for delay, but only just saw it

337alant
04-02-2017, 15:04
Thanks Grant

Alan

Arkless Electronics
04-02-2017, 15:09
I can't see anyone buying one of these in a million years! Better (probably) second hand machines from the likes of Studer, Otari etc etc are available at a fraction of the price and the pro studious that once owned the Studers we can buy now won't be interested in a two track 1/4" machine...

337alant
04-02-2017, 18:45
It does look an absolutely fab machine I have to say but as Jez says there are still some fantastic professional machines out there which can be fully restored for a fraction of that price and lets face it has any one heard this machine compared to any of the classic machines out there such as the Studer A80, A820, Otari MTR25, Ampex ATR 100, Nagra Taudio, etc
There are a lot of really great domestic and pro machines out there http://tapeproject.com/machines/ and with the likes of the Bottle head output pre amp would take some beating and coming in at way less than this sort of money.
My studer A810 owes me about £1500 fully restored and recapped and sound's every bit as good if not better than any other source I have heard, it looks great and it built like a brick s*it house :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJqRPte4dE

Also look at United Home Audio who take a standard Tascam BR20 and turn into a giant killer Phase 1 to 11 R2R, Its a bit bling for me but is said to be really special
http://www.unitedhomeaudio.com/the_uha_phase1_tape_deck.htm

Also look at what J-corder has done with the Technics RS 1500 series R2R
I have just bought an RS1500 and they are really fantastic domestic machines and look superb IMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWU39pXXNIM

Alan

topoxforddoc
04-02-2017, 20:47
Alan,

You're right in saying that there are quite a few excellent studio machines still around. However, many are nearing 30-40 years in age. Personally, if I had the spare cash, I would be buying a Studer A820. No point in buying anything else, as it won't be an upgrade compared to the Sony APR5000 machines, which I have at home.

Of course, some well heeled people would like a brand new R2R (not a refurbished/upgraded machine) and are happy to splash some cash. There are a fair number of people, who will spend near enough this sort of money for a turntable set up. After all, a fully specced LP12 is now almost £19k and something truly exotic like a Walker will be many times this sum. I don't know how many people buy a fully specced LP12 a year, but I suspect a small number will.

This is the sort of purchase for someone who buys a new pair of Avantgarde Trios, Living Voice Vox Olympian or Wilson Alexandrias. It is not for mere mortals, who grudgingly pay HMRC their dues. No this is for those, who have enough wealth to keep HMRC at bay, by offshoring etc.

Personally I am delighted that this has come to fruition. If the new Revox machine actually gets built, then at least buyers can choose brand new as well. I might not be one of those buyers, but then again I won't be buying a RR Phantom. It doesn't mean that I don't admire the craftmanship and design behind a Rolls Royce, new or old.

As for the actual tapes, that depends on the listener. I would much rather buy one master tape rather than 8-10 LPs now. If you look around, you can source the sort of music you like. I have found Beatles, Floyd, Bowie, Steely Dan, Billy Joel and the Doors as well as Miles Davis, Lee Morgan and Art Blakey. Look and ye shall find :)

Charlie

337alant
05-02-2017, 02:14
All very true Charlie and its a milestone that some one has actually produced a new R2R in 2017 :eyebrows:

Alan

ReggieB
09-02-2017, 10:46
Has anyone also spotted the new Ballfinger turntable (http://www.ballfinger.de/turntable-ps-2). Look at that arm mechanism! I've not seen anything like that before:

http://www.ballfinger.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Turntable_PS2_Front.jpg

http://www.ballfinger.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Turntable_PS2_Top_View_Dark-300x200.jpg

walpurgis
09-02-2017, 10:54
the 'rail' is just an armlift by the look of it. Bit of a big awkward one though.

ReggieB
09-02-2017, 10:58
I don't think it's just an arm lift. Have a look at this HifiPig article (http://hifipig.com/ballfinger-reel-to-reel-tape-recorder-and-tangential-turntable-unveiled/).

Ballfinger say the Schallplattenspieler PS 2 is the “first tangential disc player with a conventional rotary sound arm and the usual operation.

And this is from a google translation of the Ballfinger page (http://www.ballfinger.de/turntable-ps-2):


The PS 2 is the first record player whose radial arm has been combined with a processor-controlled linear guide.


The second processor controls the position of the tone arm base. For this purpose, the chip does not require any lateral force, but draws on the tonearm geometry as the controlled variable by means of the latest sensor technology, without force or contact. The tracking of the tone arm base is done in real-time and highly sensitively. A silent, finely balanced and decoupled precision drive takes over the mechanical work. The activation and deactivation of this drive is fully automatic. This allows the arm to be operated as an ordinary rotary arm. The scanning angle of the tone arm can theoretically be set to exactly 0.00 °, but the skating force is much more important: it is the main cause of most signal distortions. In PS 2, it is so small that it has no influence on the signal and does not have to be compensated.