PDA

View Full Version : Croft pre/power amplifier latest



Haselsh1
24-12-2009, 08:45
Croft Micro Basic 25
Croft Series 7

Well it finally came around. I had the preamp for a few months and just had to have the matching power amp.

The preamp crucified previous preamps showing up so much hidden detail in the recordings and producing such a dynamic sound. How does the power amp sound…?

My God, what a dramatic about turn in sound. This amplifier is truly amazing. I am hearing things in recordings that I have never heard before.

Test records: Genesis, We Can’t Dance. Sting, The Soul Cages and Enigma, MCMXC a.D.

There are guitar sounds in the Genesis CD that are just about audible using this amplifier but which have never been heard before. There are vocal inflections in the Enigma CD that genuinely add to the overall sound that once again, have never been heard before. The Sting album has been turned into the most wonderful piece of music of the very highest order with some truly beautiful sounds and instrumental textures.

The bass is OK. Nothing stunning, nothing staggering. It’s there and it can hit some weight when it needs too. The midrange however is to die for. Apart from a WAD 300B PP valve amplifier, this has to be my No1 ever amplifier combination. The WAD 300B had more air and space to it but the Croft is not far off the mark. The cymbals are just so well controlled. They have just the right amount of splash and shimmer without getting all messy.

So, how does it compare to the Audiolab 8000M’s…???

The Audiolabs are forward and very ‘in your face’ with an extremely precise, etched sound. They really do suit rock and techno and would be fantastic for parties or all night long raves.

Get the glowsticks ready…!!!

All I have to do now is pay for the bloody thing...!!!:(

Haselsh1
24-12-2009, 08:57
I must add that the Croft pre/power combo is far quieter than the Audiolabs but that is due to the fact that the Croft has much more depth and therefore everything sounds so far away. The stereo imaging is as good as I've ever heard and is very good on Q Sound recordings. There are many sounds much wider than the speakers would have you believe.

Marco
24-12-2009, 09:56
Hi Shaun,


There are guitar sounds in the Genesis CD that are just about audible using this amplifier but which have never been heard before. There are vocal inflections in the Enigma CD that genuinely add to the overall sound that once again, have never been heard before. The Sting album has been turned into the most wonderful piece of music of the very highest order with some truly beautiful sounds and instrumental textures.


Welcome to the world of quality all-valve amplification! It's precisely what you describe above that most solid-state amps miss.

Enjoy and keep us posted as things burn-in fully :)

Marco.

anthonyTD
24-12-2009, 10:01
Croft Micro Basic 25
Croft Series 7

Well it finally came around. I had the preamp for a few months and just had to have the matching power amp.

The preamp crucified previous preamps showing up so much hidden detail in the recordings and producing such a dynamic sound. How does the power amp sound…?

My God, what a dramatic about turn in sound. This amplifier is truly amazing. I am hearing things in recordings that I have never heard before.

Test records: Genesis, We Can’t Dance. Sting, The Soul Cages and Enigma, MCMXC a.D.

There are guitar sounds in the Genesis CD that are just about audible using this amplifier but which have never been heard before. There are vocal inflections in the Enigma CD that genuinely add to the overall sound that once again, have never been heard before. The Sting album has been turned into the most wonderful piece of music of the very highest order with some truly beautiful sounds and instrumental textures.


The bass is OK. Nothing stunning, nothing staggering. It’s there and it can hit some weight when it needs too. The midrange however is to die for. Apart from a WAD 300B PP valve amplifier, this has to be my No1 ever amplifier combination. The WAD 300B had more air and space to it but the Croft is not far off the mark. The cymbals are just so well controlled. They have just the right amount of splash and shimmer without getting all messy.

So, how does it compare to the Audiolab 8000M’s…???

The Audiolabs are forward and very ‘in your face’ with an extremely precise, etched sound. They really do suit rock and techno and would be fantastic for parties or all night long raves.

Get the glowsticks ready…!!!

All I have to do now is pay for the bloody thing...!!!:(

hi shaun,
from experience i can tell you that the bass is one of the last things to come right after a burn in of a new product, but if everything else is there then the true bass potential will follow shortly, glad your enjoying your move into the thermionic world.:)
A...

Ali Tait
24-12-2009, 16:44
Yeah,wot Anthony sed! Give it some time,and the bass will be in yer face.

hifi_dave
24-12-2009, 18:11
Ali,

Are you the new Poet Laureat by any chance ?..:lol:

DSJR
24-12-2009, 18:22
The exact matching of amp to bass units can be dependant on a number of things, not least the godawful passive crossovers most of us are lumbered with, sapping amp damping factor and causing all sorts of problems in addition to their useful bits...

The Series 7 uses FET's in the output IIRC and although these can work miracles, I suspect that absolute control and low-impedance drive isn't one of them. My ATC 100A's had 16 Ohm drivers (a special for ATC's own product only I understand) specifically to match the FET amps driving them inside...

The Audiolabs you had were based on the 8000MX amps Audiolab introduced very late on I think. These were DC coupled rather than Cap Coupled as the previous ones were. These earlier models had a "friendlier" and more "organic" presentation style as I recall..

It's all a matter of taste at the end of the day. Stick to good 6 - 8 Ohm loads and I promise you won't go wrong at all... The current Harbeth biggies sounded amazing with the Series 7 and the integrated LFD sounded like a great SS amp by comparison. I think the Rega Elicit is somewhere in between the two...

Glenn's a good guy and doesn't charge a good profit from his goods. I mean, there's a dealer margin in there too, yet Avondale have higher prices for their new baby two-box preamp yet sell direct - nowt wrong with that at all as their prices are still reasonable IMO - just that Glenn's prices are ridiculously reasonable for the quality on offer IMO.

Ali Tait
24-12-2009, 18:46
Ali,

Are you the new Poet Laureat by any chance ?..:lol:

:lol:

trane
25-12-2009, 12:35
...Welcome to the world of quality all-valve amplification!...

just want to make things clear, it's a hybrid design using mosfets in the output, as suggested by Ali above.

anyway, i reckon ol' Glenn Croft knows something :) i collected as much as i could from the net regarding his amplifier-building/repair background and must say he's nonesuch in the most positive meaning of the word - i perfectly adore him!

moreover, i have gathered some experience about his recent designs as having owned the GCi - though i know that was a bit off-direction of the EA times -, and was entirely ethralled by the sonics Glenn could get out of mosfets. actually, that was the first time i heard MUSIC emanating from my speakers as driven by a mosfet amp though having tried some. thus, now i am very much in getting a 7 power somehow - only have to find the way to raise the funds...

kcc123
25-12-2009, 12:54
I wonder how my old Super Micro preamp is different from the Croft Micro Basic 25 in design and sound.

DSJR
25-12-2009, 13:55
Seriously, ask Glenn.... sending him an email's best and he's very courteous I found :)

Glenn has offered to have mine back for some tweaking along his current thoughts regarding the circuit. I'm so happy with it I may well leave it as is until I can afford the R version (the current version of my once £795 preamp).

Glenn is only too happy to have his old products back for a good and reasonably priced fettling. He's not into boutique components particularly, so he'd get the "basics" updated where necessary and I expect he'd check the valves out and replace where necessary - he likes Mullards, that I do know, although I think he uses edicrons currently (that's what I saw in HiFi dave's demo unit anyway.

You know, a good preamp is a good preamp and apart from fine tuning the noise floor and tweaking the phono stage for higher overload margin I doubt there's much difference between old and new. I'd be [sort of] delighted to be proved wrong though ;)


P.S. I'm currently playing a Christmas compilation CD at very low (indeed) volume while my din-dins goes down ready for the next course [ahem]. It's wonderful having a setup that retains the musical details at such low levels - I'm following bass "tunes" so easily and still hearing reverb and atmosphere in the better tracks as well as heartfelt emotion in the singing of some of the songs (Winter's tale by David Essex, the fun in Wizzard and Slade's classics and the respect in Freiheight's "Keeping the Dream Alive." Huge fun and many thanks Glenn for making such wonderful and reasonably priced gear :)

Marco
25-12-2009, 15:15
P.S. I'm currently playing a Christmas compilation CD at very low (indeed) volume while my din-dins goes down ready for the next course [ahem].


Hi Dave,

Merry Chrimbo! http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1407/santas.gif (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/santas.gif/)

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6820/happy0004c.gif (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/happy0004c.gif/)

Wotcha listening to and, perhaps even more importantly, wotcha eating and drinking? http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1817/character0104.gif (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/character0104.gif/)

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/235/party0036.gif (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/party0036.gif/)

Marco.

DSJR
25-12-2009, 20:44
Usual stuff guvnor, all oven baked and microwaved with my fair hands (madame did the bread sauce and trifle)...... A glass or two of chardonay to wash it down (I'm the only one who drinks here and I'm definitely no wine, spirits or beer buff.....) and I'm way sated. Can't afford fancy food and care about it even less, to be honest..........:)

Marco
25-12-2009, 21:07
Nice one, Dave, so what were you listening to? :)

{Edit: oops, just seen your edit!} :eyebrows:

Marco.

Haselsh1
06-01-2010, 21:26
I've just had a music session listening to the Roger Water's album 'Amused To Death' and have never heard the album sound so damn good. It is another Q Sound recording and the stereo imaging is to die for. The imaging is right out at almost 90 degrees to the speakers with many instruments and soundbites using this effect. The guitar, which is played by Steve Lukather is amazing and presented in the most natural way I have ever heard. In short, I have never heard this CD sound so good. OK, I never heard it using my previous WAD 300B PP amplifier but this Croft combo makes it sound sooooooo good...! And, the one thing I really do remember about the WAD 300B PP is that it's stereo effect was very limited.

chris@panteg
07-01-2010, 12:31
Hi Shaun ' sounds interesting the Dali's and the Croft work well together ' yes .

Haselsh1
07-01-2010, 13:30
Hey, I think that because the Croft is slightly bass shy when compared to the previous Audiolab monoblocks, the Croft is a better match for the Dali's. Also as I'm sure you're aware, the Audiolab's treble is clinical to put it mildly. This is again a better solution as the Croft is just so incredibly natural. The best speakers I have ever heard for my ears were Audio Note AZ-2's which were the most natural I have ever encountered. I am now thinking that these may be a much better match for the Croft pre/power.

DSJR
07-01-2010, 14:51
Bass shy Series 7 ?????? Bollix :lol:

Just get some Harbeths - not only will you have bass to die for, you'll have a decent mid too with the most delicate and sweet toned treble (often from metal dome units as well..)

Haselsh1
07-01-2010, 15:00
Bass shy... yes...! Especially when compared to the Audiolabs and especially in my system. I cannot speak for other peoples systems. For me though this is a positive not a negative.

Haselsh1
07-01-2010, 15:07
Hi Shaun ' sounds interesting the Dali's and the Croft work well together ' yes .


I've just noticed Chris that you use Snell speakers so my guess is that you know were I'm coming from with my love of Audio Note speakers...???

Jonboy
07-01-2010, 16:31
Hi Shaun,

I have been using a pair of AZ 2's for over a year and found them to be a very good speaker for the money, they work better placed near a wall as the rear firing quasi horn loaded cabinet needs this to get it bass from, i have still got them and use them in another system.
I have seem them fetch £200-£300 on freabay.

They have now been superseeded by a pair of Tannoy Pristige Sterlings which sound fantastic, they build on what the AZ's do, but with more finesse :)

Regards

DSJR
07-01-2010, 20:15
Why are AN speakers so expensive? It's not as if they used to have expensive drive units - quite the reverse on the popular models and I have bad memories of the previous Snell E's which were trounced by NS1000's which in turn were bettered by ES14's...

chris@panteg
08-01-2010, 00:52
Why are AN speakers so expensive? It's not as if they used to have expensive drive units - quite the reverse on the popular models and I have bad memories of the previous Snell E's which were trounced by NS1000's which in turn were bettered by ES14's...

Dave ' you must have met Qvortrup in your time ' surely .

Apparently the Audio note version's of the Snell's don't have any damping/wadding , and the SE version has silver wiring , but yest stupidly overpriced.

I like my type J ' yes it could be easily bettered i have no doubt, i did seriously consider swapping for either the LV auditorium's or OBX .

The thing is they have a forgiving nature which i like , and at the moment i am concentrating on my ' sound hifi SL1210 ' project ' any money spent this year is going to be a jelco arm i think.

chris@panteg
08-01-2010, 01:09
I forgot to mention ' one of the Snell's strengths as it were ' they work beautifully with valve amp's and i would think the Croft 's would be a dream match ? so maybe one day ! .

Haselsh1
08-01-2010, 08:41
I have an idea that the Snell's sound may be similar to the Audio Note's and therefore a fine match for the Croft pre/power. All I have to do now is find eight hundred quid for a pair of AZ-2's. Maybe next years project...?

hifi_dave
08-01-2010, 11:25
The Audio Note speakers are based on the Snell designs so they do have similarities.

DSJR
08-01-2010, 11:54
Oh dear...;) I'd better shut up then in case of another row :D

Seriously Chris, you're absolutely right in working towards a Jelco. A very sound idea that will reap dividends I reckon.

One question for you Jelco experts - which 750 is the Techie one. I expect the "D" is the main one as it's the nearest in length (I suspect) to the Techie arm, but what about the slightly longer "E" version????? This looks to be around Rega length, or is it actually more?

Themis
09-01-2010, 08:54
Croft Micro Basic 25
Croft Series 7

Well it finally came around. I had the preamp for a few months and just had to have the matching power amp.

The preamp crucified previous preamps showing up so much hidden detail in the recordings and producing such a dynamic sound. How does the power amp sound…?

My God, what a dramatic about turn in sound. This amplifier is truly amazing. I am hearing things in recordings that I have never heard before.

Test records: Genesis, We Can’t Dance. Sting, The Soul Cages and Enigma, MCMXC a.D.

There are guitar sounds in the Genesis CD that are just about audible using this amplifier but which have never been heard before. There are vocal inflections in the Enigma CD that genuinely add to the overall sound that once again, have never been heard before. The Sting album has been turned into the most wonderful piece of music of the very highest order with some truly beautiful sounds and instrumental textures.

The bass is OK. Nothing stunning, nothing staggering. It’s there and it can hit some weight when it needs too. The midrange however is to die for. Apart from a WAD 300B PP valve amplifier, this has to be my No1 ever amplifier combination. The WAD 300B had more air and space to it but the Croft is not far off the mark. The cymbals are just so well controlled. They have just the right amount of splash and shimmer without getting all messy.

So, how does it compare to the Audiolab 8000M’s…???

The Audiolabs are forward and very ‘in your face’ with an extremely precise, etched sound. They really do suit rock and techno and would be fantastic for parties or all night long raves.

Get the glowsticks ready…!!!

All I have to do now is pay for the bloody thing...!!!:(


A very refreshing description Haselsh. :stalks:

I can't wait for mine to come over, eager to invent some more superlatives. :)

Jonboy
09-01-2010, 17:57
The Audio Note speakers are based on the Snell designs so they do have similarities.

The Snell speakers have a rear firing tweater, where as the Audio notes don't

The Audio note silver speakers reatail at £32000, if you have that sought of money and you like the sound that silver gives.

Jonboy
09-01-2010, 18:02
I have an idea that the Snell's sound may be similar to the Audio Note's and therefore a fine match for the Croft pre/power. All I have to do now is find eight hundred quid for a pair of AZ-2's. Maybe next years project...?

Are you sure about the £800, i don't think they make them anymore, perhaps i'm wrong

trane
09-01-2010, 21:36
sure, they abandoned this part of speaker market...

trane
09-01-2010, 21:39
The Snell speakers have a rear firing tweater, where as the Audio notes don't...

it was the snell E, to my best knowledge, only bearing this special tweeter arrangement

Ali Tait
09-01-2010, 21:42
Hi-Fi Collective sell Audio Note speaker kits-

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/speakerhome.html

trane
09-01-2010, 22:03
Hi-Fi Collective sell Audio Note speaker kits-...

i personally do not believe that anyone can build an a.n. speaker sounding the same or 'better' than the original one. reason is, they have their plywood source, select the one to be used, they use one special type of glue and wadding material, put the boxes together with a joint technique no one's sure of, sell drivers that no one can measure and compare vs. the ones they build in their own speaker boxes, same goes with the caps, inductors, resistors, etc. ...

thus, i would definitley not venture, neither would i urge anyone, to go for that kind of project even though seeminly soooo easy

also, here in our country some truly talented guys have built - among others - a.n. speakers from 'factory kits', but the results never matched the original...

there is one lesson i have learnt at least about diy speaker building aiming at replicating any original: one may build a 'better', or 'same' speaker - but only for one system...

conclusion? buy the original and won't be disappointed

Ali Tait
09-01-2010, 22:12
That is discussed on the site if you read it.

trane
09-01-2010, 22:44
i'm sure - so am i about all topics at AOS having been discussed at other forums as well...

however, the site is way too big for reading all topics and posts, and i reckon my post was not intended to reveal the wisest stone, just meant to discuss a pretty important aspect arising directly from your post...

hope it's okay with you now :)

p.s.: btw, where it's discussed, i wonder, i'd love to read it really

Ali Tait
09-01-2010, 22:53
I meant it's discussed on that Hi-Fi Collective link how the kit speakers won't be quite the same as the factory produced units,so you were quite correct in what you said. :)

The Grand Wazoo
10-01-2010, 07:59
it was the snell E, to my best knowledge, only bearing this special tweeter arrangement

Don't know about the E, but the C certainly had a rearfiring tweeter.

Haselsh1
10-01-2010, 11:12
Are you sure about the £800, i don't think they make them anymore, perhaps i'm wrong


There are a few dealers on the internet still advertising these speakers for sale as brand new items so I'm really not sure what the situation is. In fact the dealer in question is advertising the whole range of Audio Note speakers. Also, the last time I priced them (around one year ago) they were eight hundred pounds a pair. That was for a pair of AZ-2's.

Haselsh1
10-01-2010, 11:14
Trane, I love your little statment about eating a Beaver. I hear they are reintroducing wild Beaver back into Scotland...? That really is something to behold... a wild Beaver...;)

DSJR
10-01-2010, 11:40
Wild, they'll be positively livid once the Scots have hold of them...:D

Ply speaker cabinets have to be loosely glued together - as I understand it, you don't rigidly fix the bits together as you do an MDF/HDF style of box. This certainly is true of "BBC Thin Wall" boxes, but I'm not sure how thick the AN ones would be..

Haselsh1
10-01-2010, 11:50
A very refreshing description Haselsh. :stalks:

I can't wait for mine to come over, eager to invent some more superlatives. :)


Themis, be prepared for the extra long switch on delay. Just when you think it's faulty...!!!

Themis
10-01-2010, 16:43
Themis, be prepared for the extra long switch on delay. Just when you think it's faulty...!!!
I'm not sure to understand... :scratch:
You mean the "on" switch is very-very long ?

Ali Tait
10-01-2010, 17:05
I'm guessing a delay on the HT to allow the filaments to warm up.

Themis
10-01-2010, 17:22
Glenn had said "one minute". Is it longer ?

hifi_dave
10-01-2010, 17:24
It's approximately a minute but feels much longer.

A watched kettle never boils and all that..:doh:

trane
10-01-2010, 17:43
Trane, I love your little statment about eating a Beaver. I hear they are reintroducing wild Beaver back into Scotland...? That really is something to behold... a wild Beaver...;)

sure, not only there but also in austria and hungary, there's a whole project going on them :)

Peter Stockwell
22-01-2010, 10:09
I'm scratching my head wondrin' how I can combine a Croft Micro, for when "I" want to listen to music and still keep the Naim 282 for all the other bits, like the remote control for when we're watching TV an all.

Looking at what I just wrote, the 282 looks like a bloody expensive remote controller an complicated to boot! (what with the Teddy Cap, an all). I need to do some serious thinking!

DSJR
22-01-2010, 12:39
Are there any remote switching units available that you could feed into the Croft with its volume preset?

One other option would be to sell the naim and look out for something like a a LATE AVI S2000MP preamp (under £300 usually for 97*** on serial numbers) and use this as a switcher/volume/clean line stage, or possibly an ORIGINAL Audiolab 8000Q (around £300 - £400) which is beautifully presented... I believe both of these could be configured as loop-through (for a processor) and somehow this could be used with the Croft?????

I'm sure someone out there has the answer..

Peter Stockwell
22-01-2010, 15:02
Dave,

Effectively, I can use something like the Croft for Serious Music and then use a decent line stage for the rest. In fact, I was wondering about the Benchmark DAC1-HDR. I could feed Squeezebox into the DAC1, and the TV feed. I'll have remote control for this path. Then I could run vinyl through the Croft.

That sounds suitably diabolical, but the Benchmark is just a bit too expensive.

I'll look into the AVI/audiolab options though.

hifi_dave
22-01-2010, 15:38
You could run a Croft pre as a phono stage into the 282 but then you will be listening to the combination, not just pure Croft. Whichever way you do it, you will be listening to two pre's unless you swop the pre's into the power.:scratch:

I don't see the point in changing your pre for an Audiolab as it doesn't sound anywhere near as good and it won't help in doing what you want. IMO of course.

Peter Stockwell
22-01-2010, 15:57
You could run a Croft pre as a phono stage into the 282 but then you will be listening to the combination, not just pure Croft. Whichever way you do it, you will be listening to two pre's unless you swop the pre's into the power.:scratch:

I don't see the point in changing your pre for an Audiolab as it doesn't sound anywhere near as good and it won't help in doing what you want. IMO of course.

Dave, Thanks for that. I have two inputs on the power amp, but they're not switchable.

Ali Tait
22-01-2010, 16:17
Well just turn off whatever source you are not using.

hifi_dave
22-01-2010, 16:24
But then you will have one pre playing into the back end of the other. This might not be a problem but then again it might. I'm not sure..:scratch:

It might be best to make up a simple switch box.

DSJR
22-01-2010, 16:28
I thought the original 8000Q was a fairly neutral line preamp with little "character" or "limiting" like the Salisbury product and I was suggesting it as a durable REMOTE CONTROL SWITCH mainly, with the Croft as the main device accepting signals.

The AVI's amazing for this as you should be able to configure either the record output circuit or, in the late S2000MP models, the processor output loop which takes the signal from BEFORE the line and volume stage...

hifi_dave
22-01-2010, 16:42
I can't get excited about using an 8000Q having sold heaps of the stuff. It was competent but not very involving - safe but (dare I say) boring. The Croft is light years ahead but if you play that through the 8000Q you will just be switching in the 'blandness' control. IMO of course.

I can't see any way of doing this without a two into one switch box or unplugging the pre not in use at the time...:scratch:

Peter Stockwell
22-01-2010, 18:01
Everything in it's time, I'll think of something whenthetime is right

Themis
22-01-2010, 18:40
Hi Peter, I have a few questions:
How many sources do you have ? I see TT, SB and TV. Are there any others ?
You use the S100 as power amp, right ?

Peter Stockwell
22-01-2010, 19:31
CD player as well. and and yes an S100 I think we might be neighbours (more or less :))

Themis
22-01-2010, 19:47
Not really, I live in Montpellier. ;)

I propose you the following : an RCA switch and an OBH-22 passive (or similar).

The RCA switch should be placed between the two preamps outputting towards the power.

You plug all "special" sources to the Croft and all the others to the passive. You keep the switch to the passive, so that the most of the time you can use the remote.
You switch the RCA switch to Croft when you need serious listening. Beware though : you need absolutely to wait 1 minute on power on of the Croft (or mute it accordingly) or you may blow the power amp. ;)

You can use any preamp instead of the Creek OBH-22. You can even output the Croft's tape out to the other preamp, if you want (one day) to use the remote for any "serious" source, without unplugging it.

Peter Stockwell
23-01-2010, 12:47
3h20 away then :)

Themis
23-01-2010, 12:57
3h20 away then :)
;)

Haselsh1
18-02-2010, 09:06
I have now been using the Croft Micro Basic pre since before Christmas and the Croft Series 7 power since January so I think it's time for an update.
As I'm sure you are all aware, the pre uses a separate left and right volume control that acts as a balance control. Elsewhere on this forum people have brought attention to the sensitivity of the volume controls. I have to add to this concern. It is almost totally impossible to set an accurate balance between the speakers due to the sensitivity of this pre. Just the merest touch of one of the volume controls is enough to shift the balance completely away from one speaker to the other. I am talking here about a movement of around one millimetre. This is ridiculous.
This sensitivity is not just due to the high output of CD. It is also present on vinyl and makes the system almost impossible to use accurately. If you manage to set an accurate balance it is very definitely due to luck rather than judgement.
In terms of a summary of the sound of this pre/power combination, I think everything has already been said. I have seldom heard an amplifier with this level of detail. My example is also driving four Ohm speakers which says something for it's guts.
Overall, sound quality is one of the best but this other issue makes a complete mockery of such a fine amp.

DSJR
18-02-2010, 17:31
Speak to Glenn. If enough people want the preamp to have less gain, he can change it in production, or he can maybe try different pots with a modified law or summat.

It seems to be a preamp anomaly rather than a power one I think, although it would be easier to reduce the power amp sensitivity, keeping the strong signals through the interconnect cable, which I think would be preferable.

I soon became used to the twin volume controls, although on my old preamp, half past one was low and quarter past about right with CD, adding a little with vinyl depending on the cartridge used (hardly anything with a Decca...)..

Ali Tait
18-02-2010, 18:28
If they are not already,shunt the pots.This gives most of the benefits of a stepped attenuator,and also lowers gain,so will give more useable range on the pot-

http://www.wduk.worldomain.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198

DSJR
18-02-2010, 21:47
Mine has a 500K pot (not 1M as shown below) followed by a resistor. Totally different...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Croft_SMA4_signal_circuit.gif

The 100K to earth on the line inputs have been removed on Glenns advice. Don't know what this does except increase sensitivity and input impedance????

Haselsh1
18-02-2010, 22:33
You're talking electronics in which I have no knowledge. My thing is chemistry. The one thing i do know and have stated is that this amplifier combo is very difficult to use due to the sensitivity. It is not quite as bad on vinyl as it is on CD but the difference is marginal.

The Grand Wazoo
19-02-2010, 00:08
With my rudimentary grasp of the principles of gearing, I'd suggest you could consider altering the volume knobs for something with a smaller diameter

Haselsh1
19-02-2010, 08:46
Wazoo, don't you mean a bigger diameter so that they have to go through a greater distance...? That way to get the same effect I'd have to turn them further...? I notice that HiFi Collective do some fab control knobs that would fit and would be a lot better than the cheap plastic ones that came with it.

The Grand Wazoo
19-02-2010, 08:56
Hahahaha!
I did say I had a rudimentary grasp didn't I!
Sorry, yes it was a long day yesterday ............

Haselsh1
19-02-2010, 09:14
That's OK Wazz...
It's a very good idea and also a cheap one...! A set of 30mm control knobs may make all the difference between 1mm movement and 3mm's of movement. I've just checked out the price at HiFi Collective and they're about twelve quid each plus VAT. I call that quite a nice upgrade and they just have to look a lot better than the standard knobs.

The Grand Wazoo
19-02-2010, 09:38
I did that in the past with the knob on the record level of a tape deck - allowing me to be much, much more precise when setting levels on very dynamic music - worked a treat but looked really stupid, cos the knob was h u g e

Stratmangler
19-02-2010, 17:08
I did that in the past with the knob on the record level of a tape deck - allowing me to be much, much more precise when setting levels on very dynamic music - worked a treat but looked really stupid, cos the knob was h u g e

What's this about big knobs ???????(Ooerrrrrrr - Missus !!!!).

Chris:eyebrows:

DSJR
19-02-2010, 17:53
For Gawds sake. ASK GLENN!!!!!!!!!

The basic Micro 25 looks to have a very simple line stage and if changing a couple of resistors doesn't meet with approval, then SURELY there are suitable lower gain (and therefore lower microphony?) line valves that could be easily used and, hopefully, just a drop-in replacement for what's there.......

Greg2010
20-02-2010, 22:07
First post here, so I hope it's vaguely constructive.
I recently bought a croft micro 25 (not the basic) and was immediately impressed with the clarity and openess of this pre. I did however encounter the problem of too high gain and an inability (for me) to accurately set the dual volume.
I contacted glen who simply suggested that the feedback resistor on the line stage could be changed from 470k to 100k to reduce the gain, which he would do if I wished.
I assume the topology of the micro will be similar and that the same solution will apply to this unit too.

dowser
22-02-2010, 12:38
Not sure it is relevant, but I recently sent a 2nd hand purchased Croft Micro II to Glenn to have the output stage updated to his most current design (along with a check up). While there is a difference between line and phono (PU) volume usage ranges, it is not a problem for me (50% usable for line input, 70% for phono).

I'm a very happy bunny with my purchase :)

Richard

ElTwang
27-03-2010, 22:42
Congrats Dowser.

And I just found a Croft Twinstar II power amp (plexi front, blue diode). WOW! What a unit. Precise, clear, tight and huge sound. I'm really impressed with this unit and it goes well with my Vita.

DSJR
28-03-2010, 14:33
Sssshhh, they'll all want one :)