Amplifier advice please!!! Cambridge cxa60 vs cxa80

[Richard10909]

Hello

I'm looking to buy a new amplifier to pair with a Audiolab 8200cdq and Dali zensor 3 speakers. My budget is £700 max atm. Originally looked at Arcam FMJ A19 but I'm liking the what hifi reviews on the new Cambridge cxa60, plus it has all the digital extras. However the cxa80 interests me but did not get the same write up as the cxa60. Has anyone had any experience or compared these amps. I'm just wondering if the balanced xlr on the cxa80 and Audiolab would actually make a noticeable difference or to stick to high end interconnect. Also the cxa80 is a dual mono block design and just wondering if this amp will really sound that much better than the cxa60 for the extra £200. Alternatively other amp suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for any comments on this

Richard

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi
My advice would be to buy a good power amp and work back from there ( as straight away you have solved how speakers are driven )
The power amp though needs to have ability of lowish input sensitivity, which otherwise can restrict how attenuation is achieved.

A Quad 909 being an excellent low distortion power amp, and suiting passive volume attenuation like LDR's,



Cheers / Chris

[high.spirits]

I used to have an A19 before going to valves and it was excellent.

I auditioned it against many rivals e.g. Roksan, Music Fidelity, older Arcam A18 etc and it was superior to all.
It has an openness hard to believe at that price point and you can pick them up s/h for a bargain.

Try before you buy.

[Macca]

What amp are you using now? And what is wrong with it?

You might find spending the money on better speakers would give you more improvement than swapping one amp for another. Balanced connections won't bring you any benefit unless you need to use a very long interconnect between source and amp - like 40 foot. Otherwise just a gimmick. You have a DAC already so why pay for another one inside the amp?

Check what that money could buy you in a pair of used speakers.

If you do need a new amp then my recco would be to get a good power amp second hand and use it with a passive pre amp. That will give you a jump up in quality that you will notice immediately.

[Richard10909]

Ok thanks. Well my amp is a bit out of date. An Arcam alpha 7 and was using kef iq30 and brought the dali zensor 3 because they sound warmer and better than the kef. The Audiolab also already has a preamp built in and a good dac

[struth]

Used to have a fmj 19. Its a decent amp, but you will do much better secondhand and save a bit too.

[Macca]

In that case I would say go and get the cxa 80 and compare it to the Arcam. Richer will let you take it back if you don't think it is a sufficient improvement. Amps don't really go out of date, there is nothing new in amplifier tech. But Arcam amps can be a bit 'meh' so you might find the Cambridge is better.

If it were me I would still look for a quality used power amp instead, £750 would buy you quite a bit. The Krell I am using at the moment was £900 s/h, for example, so just £150 more than the CX80. Arcam, Cambridge etc are not even in the same league.

[agk]

I'd stay well away from Cambridge amps if I were you. They sound great when they work but do have a tendency to go tits up.

[Simon_LDT]

I wouldn't trust much of what WhatHiFi says. If I had my time again I would have looked for something with more bang for buck. I love my Arcam amps but if I had that sort of money to spend again I'd be looking at Firebottle Monoblocks or something from Arkless or something like a Bryston or Krell. Also, definitely buy 2nd hand and get even more performance for your money. Lots of superb gear out there at good prices.

[Richard10909]

I've seen an old naim nait 5i and rega brio 3 going cheap, but again it's intergrated and haven't heard them and probably won't get chance to compare. Also there's those NVA A40 mono blocks for 500 bucks online that seem to be popular but I've never heard of them

[hifi_dave]

I've just sold a couple of Rega Brio-r at £360 brand new and they would have been right up your street (said the actress to the Bishop). The Brio-r has been replaced by the new Brio (2016) and that is excellent. See if you can get a demo.

[Dauntless]

What amp are you using now? And what is wrong with it?

You might find spending the money on better speakers would give you more improvement than swapping one amp for another. Balanced connections won't bring you any benefit unless you need to use a very long interconnect between source and amp - like 40 foot. Otherwise just a gimmick. You have a DAC already so why pay for another one inside the amp?

Check what that money could buy you in a pair of used speakers.

If you do need a new amp then my recco would be to get a good power amp second hand and use it with a passive pre amp. That will give you a jump up in quality that you will notice immediately.

The main advantage with running balanced is the avoidance of hum loops. I have had quite a few problems with hum loops when running RCA but never any probs running balanced. In my experience balanced systems run quieter. Passive pres can be a good idea but it is best to check if they will work ok with your power amp. I remember trying to match a Sugden Masterclass power with a passive pre and the sound was miserable. As far as sound quality between RCA and XLR I don't think there is much difference. XLR set ups are better suited to digital only systems because there is more voltage in a true balanced system, usually up to 4volts (IMHO ).

[plastic penguin]

The trick will be to dem either of the Cambridge amps. Think RS operate a 14-day returns policy.

Alternatively, if the Cambridges don't 'float your boat' look for a s/hand Arcam: A32 was a very good amp, and Arcams generally work well with Dalis.

[sumday]

the last Cambridge amps, 540 and 640s had a known fault that was never addressed.
the amps had a distortion sensor which lowered the volume via the motorised knob if distortion was detected.
sadly...this feature was prone to failure and lowered the volume to unusable levels without provocation....a fault well known to the staff at richers.
my son took a shine to the well built, powerful and feature laden 640 but after THREE returns gave up and opted for a NAD.

lets hope the new range has no such issues.

NIGE

[Arkless Electronics]

Ok thanks. Well my amp is a bit out of date. An Arcam alpha 7 and was using kef iq30 and brought the dali zensor 3 because they sound warmer and better than the kef. The Audiolab also already has a preamp built in and a good dac

Other than new op amps coming out, which are not used in everything anyway, there has been no specific area changed in the design of amps for over 30 years which could make your amp "outdated".... sure then as now some amps were better than others, and the Arcam would not be one I would personally choose, but "outdated"? Nah....

[Arkless Electronics]

What amp are you using now? And what is wrong with it?

You might find spending the money on better speakers would give you more improvement than swapping one amp for another. Balanced connections won't bring you any benefit unless you need to use a very long interconnect between source and amp - like 40 foot. Otherwise just a gimmick. You have a DAC already so why pay for another one inside the amp?

Check what that money could buy you in a pair of used speakers.

If you do need a new amp then my recco would be to get a good power amp second hand and use it with a passive pre amp. That will give you a jump up in quality that you will notice immediately.

I fully agree.... but don't we need 30 pages of argument on the matter now?:D Featuring plenty of input from people who don't actually know what the difference between balanced and unbalanced is but have a strong opinion anyway?:D Yes my cynicism towards... well... audiophilia... rather than audio itself, continues to grow :doh: :eyebrows: :)

[Sherwood]

Hello

I'm looking to buy a new amplifier to pair with a Audiolab 8200cdq and Dali zensor 3 speakers. My budget is £700 max atm. Originally looked at Arcam FMJ A19 but I'm liking the what hifi reviews on the new Cambridge cxa60, plus it has all the digital extras. However the cxa80 interests me but did not get the same write up as the cxa60. Has anyone had any experience or compared these amps. I'm just wondering if the balanced xlr on the cxa80 and Audiolab would actually make a noticeable difference or to stick to high end interconnect. Also the cxa80 is a dual mono block design and just wondering if this amp will really sound that much better than the cxa60 for the extra £200. Alternatively other amp suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for any comments on this

Richard

I echo the other comments made here in that: a) given your source has preamp capability I would go for a good power amp rather than an integrated and b) you need to decide what it is about your current amp that is deficient!

Although your speakers are not particularly difficult to drive, I have learned over the years that ceteris paribus more power is better. There are a few amps that are relatively low powered and can sound fantastic with high efficiency speakers at moderate listening levels. Many of these are valve designs which watt for watt sound more powerfu than solid state designs. Not sure that you will get much of an improvement with your budget unless you find a good second hand bargain. I would suggest you save up a bit more and buy something that will be a significant upgrade that will see you through the next decade.

[Dauntless]

I fully agree.... but don't we need 30 pages of argument on the matter now?:D Featuring plenty of input from people who don't actually know what the difference between balanced and unbalanced is but have a strong opinion anyway?:D Yes my cynicism towards... well... audiophilia... rather than audio itself, continues to grow :doh: :eyebrows: :)

I thought long and hard about responding to this post. It was obviously aimed at me. Well you're right Jez, there's an awful lot of things I know little or nothing about. I base my posts on this forum on things that I have had experience of using over a time period. I only post if I think I have had some experience/usage of the topic in question, otherwise I keep quiet. I must say that it seems a rather curious way to promote yourself and your business interests by attacking the very market that you should be trying to nurture and develop. Running a business is one area that I have experience of and you don't insult your customer base! You say there is nothing new in amps but a few op amps. Well some folk might disagree with you like Bruno at Hypex for instance. He seems to spend his time researching and developing new, affordable well designed products and bringing them to the market. His AS2.100D plate amp is one such product. It is a groundbreaking product and there is nothing like it on the market. Bruno is out there delighting his market and making a good living from it. A win/win situation for him and his customers. I've never been aware of him slagging off his customer base on forums. He's much too busy designing and developing and bringing to the market products for that! With your technical Knowledge you could follow his example.

[Richard10909]

Well today I have decided to buy a new cxa80 with 24 months warranty. I'm a bit unsure with some second hands because my old alpha was and it had a little crackle down at low end volumes. Maybe it just needed some switch cleaner. However I must say I've plugged in the cxa80 to my 8200cdq and the sound is alot different. It's much more open and clearer. I can hear little details that the Arcam just never presented. I had an old Cambridge years ago, one of there cheaper products and never liked it, thought it was a bit gutless. This amp however I'm really liking so far. It has plenty of connectivity and nice build quality (apart from the binding posts on the back). I wouldn't say the bass is not as low down as claimed but I haven't got chance to crank it up properly yet, neighbours home😂however the mid range and top end is a very noticeable improvement. Maybe now to upgrade my speakers in the future!

[struth]

Nice.... has a Cirrus Logic WM8740 chip inside. Big trannie too. Enjoy

[plastic penguin]

Well today I have decided to buy a new cxa80 with 24 months warranty. I'm a bit unsure with some second hands because my old alpha was and it had a little crackle down at low end volumes. Maybe it just needed some switch cleaner. However I must say I've plugged in the cxa80 to my 8200cdq and the sound is alot different. It's much more open and clearer. I can hear little details that the Arcam just never presented. I had an old Cambridge years ago, one of there cheaper products and never liked it, thought it was a bit gutless. This amp however I'm really liking so far. It has plenty of connectivity and nice build quality (apart from the binding posts on the back). I wouldn't say the bass is not as low down as claimed but I haven't got chance to crank it up properly yet, neighbours home��however the mid range and top end is a very noticeable improvement. Maybe now to upgrade my speakers in the future!

Congrats on your new bundle.

What Alpha have you got? I have the 7R up in the attic. Still a good budget amp.

[Arkless Electronics]

I thought long and hard about responding to this post. It was obviously aimed at me. Well you're right Jez, there's an awful lot of things I know little or nothing about. I base my posts on this forum on things that I have had experience of using over a time period. I only post if I think I have had some experience/usage of the topic in question, otherwise I keep quiet. I must say that it seems a rather curious way to promote yourself and your business interests by attacking the very market that you should be trying to nurture and develop. Running a business is one area that I have experience of and you don't insult your customer base! You say there is nothing new in amps but a few op amps. Well some folk might disagree with you like Bruno at Hypex for instance. He seems to spend his time researching and developing new, affordable well designed products and bringing them to the market. His AS2.100D plate amp is one such product. It is a groundbreaking product and there is nothing like it on the market. Bruno is out there delighting his market and making a good living from it. A win/win situation for him and his customers. I've never been aware of him slagging off his customer base on forums. He's much too busy designing and developing and bringing to the market products for that! With your technical Knowledge you could follow his example.

Absolutely not aimed at you or at any specific individual but at the world of hi fi in general, which I am increasingly at odds with and find more ridiculous on a daily basis. I too do continuous R & D and in fact have many dozens of new products... which I can't afford to put on the market.
As to what potential customers may think.... There will be some who appreciate zero bullshit, honesty, a refusal to jump on any fad of a gravy train and technical excellence. The ones who wish to have their sometimes bizarre ideas pandered to, are maybe looking for sycophancy and want affirmation that maybe placing a banana on each speaker improves the sound can please take their business elsewhere!

If my latest range of products in the form of full function pre amp, line stage and phono stage does not take off, (and I'm not expecting it to as in spite of it being intended to be so good it will be a no-brainer purchase, no doubt the fact that it won't be in hi fi mags or dealers shelves and it doesn't say Naim or Audionote on the front panel will guarantee zero sales...time will tell), then I may well leave hi fi altogether, (do I hear a cheer?) other than for my own use, and go back into industrial electronics R & D, and start to make enough money to have a life once more etc....

My world of hi fi is the one of Angus McKenzie, Donald Aldous, Gordon J King, Peter Walker and Peter Baxandall etc. One where scientific method, technical competence, the laws of physics and careful measurement were EVERYTHING and, back then, anyone suggesting magic mains cables, fuses, interconnects etc would have been laughed at.

Then the clever marketing people got involved..... And boy did post-truth start early in hi fi! We now live in a world of hi fi where measuring things properly is frowned on, even being bothered by technical measurements, and therefore competence, is frowned upon and snake oil merchants are held in higher regard then engineers... people will spout technical diarrhoea at the drop of a hat based on something they only half understood in an article in Hi Fi World two year ago... and which was itself only half right... and when told the truth, want to shoot the messenger....

We live in a hi fi environment today where if someone suggested dipping mains plugs in carrot juice improved the sound, then instead of being rightly ridiculed, many would believe them and actually try it.... some would decide it really works even!

It's a world I really want nothing to do with TBH... So. no I'm not someone who will say nothing, to avoid "rocking the boat", when the bananas on top of the speakers are postulated, or will refrain from calling you an idiot if you suggest dipping mains plugs in carrot juice!!.... (or would have done/wish to would be more accurate, as it has been made clear to me that suggesting eg "dipping mains plugs in carrot juice improves sound" is fine on this site, welcomed even, but suggesting it's idiotic/impossible would put me in breach of site rules and looking at a ban. Yes you couldn't make it up and the lunatics have taken over the asylum but them's the rules... So next time something like this actually comes up for debate my input will be notable by its absence).

If honesty, a belief that the truth will out and that science, not mumbo jumbo, is what really matters, makes me so disliked that no one wants to buy anything from me... then so be it. I'm not in this game for the money.... Virtually any other occupation, including stacking supermarket shelves, would make me a better income than I make from hi fi ,and the only way to get a small fortune from hi fi is to start with a large one!

So why do I do it? Because it's a subject I love and which fascinates me and has never failed to arouse my curiosity since being a kid. Because I'm good at it. Because as a direct seller freed from dealer mark up , I believe I can build equipment with a true claim to being the best in the world at any price point. That's why:)

Own opinions only and YMMV etc :)

[clarkey555]

Well I believe in you Jez and stand by your products as being excellent vfm. As they would have said back in the old days
FTW
there's no justice just us

[Richard10909]

Congrats on your new bundle.

What Alpha have you got? I have the 7R up in the attic. Still a good budget amp.



Is an Alpha 7, not the River. Plenty of power, thought it was fairly warm tbh but not the same detail like the new cxa80

[Richard10909]

Nice.... has a Cirrus Logic WM8740 chip inside. Big trannie too. Enjoy


Thanks. Yes indeed, will be good for digital inputs, I'm not sure if the 8200cdq chip is better, which is the ESS Sabre 32 9018

[fatmarley]

Thanks. Yes indeed, will be good for digital inputs, I'm not sure if the 8200cdq chip is better, which is the ESS Sabre 32 9018

I've heard a few people say those Sabre chips can sound a bit thin. Some people used to complain that the old Dacmagic (2 x WM8740) was a bit too lively (Mine sounds great but It has Teddy Regs and a PFM flea fitted).

Let us know what you think, I'm tempted to try a CA CXAxx amp after my experience of the excellent little CA AM1.

[Richard10909]

I've heard a few people say those Sabre chips can sound a bit thin. Some people used to complain that the old Dacmagic (2 x WM8740) was a bit too lively (Mine sounds great but It has Teddy Regs and a PFM flea fitted).

Let us know what you think, I'm tempted to try a CA CXAxx amp after my experience of the excellent little CA AM1.


Tomorrow I'm going to try the balanced xlr and optical input and see what if any difference I hear. Also that way of can hear the difference between the two chips. Il let you know ��

[fatmarley]

Tomorrow I'm going to try the balanced xlr and optical input and see what if any difference I hear. Also that way of can hear the difference between the two chips. Il let you know ��

:popcorn:

[plastic penguin]

Is an Alpha 7, not the River. Plenty of power, thought it was fairly warm tbh but not the same detail like the new cxa80

Yes, the Alpha range is generally a little smoother** than other makes and the later DIVA range of Arcs. I also owned the A65+ -- a cracker for the money, and more neutral.

** Alpha 10 was a lean, mean machine in its day.

[Pieoftheday]

Absolutely not aimed at you or at any specific individual but at the world of hi fi in general, which I am increasingly at odds with and find more ridiculous on a daily basis. I too do continuous R & D and in fact have many dozens of new products... which I can't afford to put on the market.
As to what potential customers may think.... There will be some who appreciate zero bullshit, honesty, a refusal to jump on any fad of a gravy train and technical excellence. The ones who wish to have their sometimes bizarre ideas pandered to, are maybe looking for sycophancy and want affirmation that maybe placing a banana on each speaker improves the sound can please take their business elsewhere!

If my latest range of products in the form of full function pre amp, line stage and phono stage does not take off, (and I'm not expecting it to as in spite of it being intended to be so good it will be a no-brainer purchase, no doubt the fact that it won't be in hi fi mags or dealers shelves and it doesn't say Naim or Audionote on the front panel will guarantee zero sales...time will tell), then I may well leave hi fi altogether, (do I hear a cheer?) other than for my own use, and go back into industrial electronics R & D, and start to make enough money to have a life once more etc....

My world of hi fi is the one of Angus McKenzie, Donald Aldous, Gordon J King, Peter Walker and Peter Baxandall etc. One where scientific method, technical competence, the laws of physics and careful measurement were EVERYTHING and, back then, anyone suggesting magic mains cables, fuses, interconnects etc would have been laughed at.

Then the clever marketing people got involved..... And boy did post-truth start early in hi fi! We now live in a world of hi fi where measuring things properly is frowned on, even being bothered by technical measurements, and therefore competence, is frowned upon and snake oil merchants are held in higher regard then engineers... people will spout technical diarrhoea at the drop of a hat based on something they only half understood in an article in Hi Fi World two year ago... and which was itself only half right... and when told the truth, want to shoot the messenger....

We live in a hi fi environment today where if someone suggested dipping mains plugs in carrot juice improved the sound, then instead of being rightly ridiculed, many would believe them and actually try it.... some would decide it really works even!

It's a world I really want nothing to do with TBH... So. no I'm not someone who will say nothing, to avoid "rocking the boat", when the bananas on top of the speakers are postulated, or will refrain from calling you an idiot if you suggest dipping mains plugs in carrot juice!!.... (or would have done/wish to would be more accurate, as it has been made clear to me that suggesting eg "dipping mains plugs in carrot juice improves sound" is fine on this site, welcomed even, but suggesting it's idiotic/impossible would put me in breach of site rules and looking at a ban. Yes you couldn't make it up and the lunatics have taken over the asylum but them's the rules... So next time something like this actually comes up for debate my input will be notable by its absence).

If honesty, a belief that the truth will out and that science, not mumbo jumbo, is what really matters, makes me so disliked that no one wants to buy anything from me... then so be it. I'm not in this game for the money.... Virtually any other occupation, including stacking supermarket shelves, would make me a better income than I make from hi fi ,and the only way to get a small fortune from hi fi is to start with a large one!

So why do I do it? Because it's a subject I love and which fascinates me and has never failed to arouse my curiosity since being a kid. Because I'm good at it. Because as a direct seller freed from dealer mark up , I believe I can build equipment with a true claim to being the best in the world at any price point. That's why:)

Own opinions only and YMMV etc :)

These bananas have tightened up the bass no end;)

[Macca]

These bananas have tightened up the bass no end;)

Try them the other way round. I've found them to be directional. Don't forget they need about 200 hours to burn in. I mean decompose.

[Pieoftheday]

Try them the other way round. I've found them to be directional. Don't forget they need about 200 hours to burn in. I mean decompose.

Probably should have left the skin on:doh:

[Macca]

Rookie error.

[walpurgis]

These bananas have tightened up the bass no end;)

Hmm. Must try bananas. I used apples the other day, but the results were inconclusive. ;)

[Macca]

Hmm. Must try bananas. I used apples the other day, but the results were inconclusive. ;)

With apples I like what Cox's Pippins do for the mids. Don't bother with Golden Delicious though. Total rip off. I've also tried plums but they are just complete foo IMO. Sold them at a small profit though, which was nice.