Looking for advice

[williamsgrandad]

Hi
Any ideas would be most helpful
I would like to put together a system at my girlfriends home.
The room is 7x5x2.5 (lwh)and will fire up the room
I have some Canary 300b pp monoblocks and Tonian Labs TL-D1 speakers.
The speakers are rare over herebut sound (to my ears)superb.
The cabinets are tuned like a musical instrument and are described by the designer as semi open baffle and are 95db.
I have a Lector cd player at my daughters that I can also make use of.
I am looking for suggestions for a preamp in the £1500 range(used)
Any advice will be greatly appreciated
Cheers all
Ian

[eddieedwards]

Might be worth having a chat with Kevin, at definitive.

[hifi_dave]

Croft.

[Andy831]

I liked using a passive pre when I was using 300b's, and still do with my Set 40 (211) my speakers are similar sensitivity however my room is much smaller so you may need something to give the power a lift.

[Lawrence001]

If features like remote and tape loop are not required I would suggest trying a passive. They won't work with every system but can be found cheap (e.g. Tisbury) and are handy to have as a spare pre anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[williamsgrandad]

Thanks for all the advice
Ian

[farflungstar]

It totally depends on the passive used, the grunt going into it and the impedance after it. In my opinion stay away from conventional pots of any kind. They will not exhibit the transparency of a transformer based passive. Likewise ordinary transformer based passives don't exhibit the same dynamic range as autoformers at low listening levels. My phonostage runs straight into the Slagle and drives the Cary 805c's to full volume with ease - but, I never need to listen further than around 10 to the hour as even at very low levels, and with the Audio Notes 92db , my room is filled with dynamic, wideband music. This is the hallmark of a good autoformer.

You have many choices - but having gone the Alps pot/stepped resistor/transformer/autoformer route I know my preference.

One that I haven't tried is the Tribute transformer control which is beautifully crafted and said to be very very good as well as being very easy to house yourself as it looks like and connects up like a typical pot - it's actually stunning to behold, and is within your budget.

The Slagle copper autoformers are about €350 and awesome but they also need housing. Well worth it though. The modules are easy to connect up.

The Music first, in my opinion, isn't worth the huge price over the Slagle. I tried the Baby reference and it didn't match the Slagles liquidity.

You have a lot to think about - but as long as you're front end can drive it, you shouldn't have anything but a grin on your face if you go the autoformer route. Your amps will be the standard input impedance I should imagine - so no probs.

Just my opinions of course.
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[Arkless Electronics]

It totally depends on the passive used, the grunt going into it and the impedance after it. In my opinion stay away from conventional pots of any kind. They will not exhibit the transparency of a transformer based passive. Likewise ordinary transformer based passives don't exhibit the same dynamic range as autoformers at low listening levels. My phonostage runs straight into the Slagle and drives the Cary 805c's to full volume with ease - but, I never need to listen further than around 10 to the hour as even at very low levels, and with the Audio Notes 92db , my room is filled with dynamic, wideband music. This is the hallmark of a good autoformer.

You have many choices - but having gone the Alps pot/stepped resistor/transformer/autoformer route I know my preference.

One that I haven't tried is the Tribute transformer control which is beautifully crafted and said to be very very good as well as being very easy to house yourself as it looks like and connects up like a typical pot - it's actually stunning to behold, and is within your budget.

The Slagle copper autoformers are about €350 and awesome but they also need housing. Well worth it though. The modules are easy to connect up.

The Music first, in my opinion, isn't worth the huge price over the Slagle. I tried the Baby reference and it didn't match the Slagles liquidity.

You have a lot to think about - but as long as you're front end can drive it, you shouldn't have anything but a grin on your face if you go the autoformer route. Your amps will be the standard input impedance I should imagine - so no probs.

Just my opinions of course.
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

Just to confuse the OP my advice is the exact opposite of everything said above I'm afraid.... Don't use transformers as they are another unneeded component in the chain which have their own colouration , distortion etc. I'm strongly against the use of transformers anywhere but power supplies BTW...

This should do the trick nicely if going the passive route http://www.khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

[struth]

be inclined to think about a croft initially too as they are easily resalable if you dont like it.

[farflungstar]

The khozmo has been compared many times to various transformer based passives and whilst way better than the ubiquitous Alps blue pot it couldn't compete on transparency or dynamics. Like all pots it's curve isn't linear in the sense that it's performance changes depending on its position - like all pots it needs cranking before dynamics come through. Autoformers have this even at barely audible levels.

There is certainly no zero distortion with my volume control, that I can detect. Neither is there veiling or erratic performance based on position.

I would have thought that logic says a single run of wire (transformer) introduces less distortion than switched, stepped resistor type pots or wiper type - hence the need to deoxit them every now and again.

Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[farflungstar]

The OP has a very good budget for this so obviously wants something he won't get itchy about upgrading. The Croft and the khozmo are not the best of their kind - nor the promitheus. For that kind of money Townsend Allegri second hand would be superb, as would Slagle - based on my experience with the latter two.
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[petrat]

The advice in post #2 is good .... and, just in case Ian doesn't know, Definitive Audio have sold/imported Canary 300b amps for years, and Kevin will be able to advise what works best and what really doesn't.

[Arkless Electronics]

The khozmo has been compared many times to various transformer based passives and whilst way better than the ubiquitous Alps blue pot it couldn't compete on transparency or dynamics. Like all pots it's curve isn't linear in the sense that it's performance changes depending on its position - like all pots it needs cranking before dynamics come through. Autoformers have this even at barely audible levels.

There is certainly no zero distortion with my volume control, that I can detect. Neither is there veiling or erratic performance based on position.

I would have thought that logic says a single run of wire (transformer) introduces less distortion than switched, stepped resistor type pots or wiper type - hence the need to deoxit them every now and again.

Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

Nope. Transformers are nasty things which cause colouration, distortion, ringing, phase shift and limit bandwidth. A pot or switched attenuator is so close to perfect as for it to be very difficult to measure any imperfection. There is zero change in performance from a pot or attenuator based on it's position, other than to output resistance which will have no effect within the audio range if everything has been done correctly matching wise.

I'm guessing Adey that you're a SET's, horns, single driver speakers, interstage transformers type person whereas I'm the exact opposite and would never touch any of those things with a barge pole.... so I doubt we'll agree on anything!:) Which makes advice from both of us probably confusing for the OP! Sa la vie....

[farflungstar]

For me the volume control is one of the most important components in the chain as poorly designed or implemented it can mask what comes before it. I'm looking for absolute transparency to source with a volume control and no pot is. I've had numerous from the lowly tisbury to a stint with the top Alps at 700€ as well as various stepped ones but my current Slagle outperforms them in every area regarding transparency, dynamics and performance. Yes it's subjective, they're my ears and it's my system, but I'm not alone in this finding as some research online would show.

So obsessed am I with this that I'm waiting for the Truth linestage to finally be delivered. It, as well as the Slagle units are the only 'passive' units to get the Class A rating. The Truth uses light, not LDR and is as close to a direct connection as possible. Is it very expensive. Not really.

Yes I do have valves, no I don't do horns, I also have the best solid state phono stage I think money can buy. I don't care what the technology is only what it gives me back for spending my hard earned money. I trust my ears and try to balance my system (voice it) on merit rather than snob value, die hard belief in one thing or another, or the current flavour of the month. I view some tweaks as stupid but if I can see the logic I experiment and again trust my judgement as to whether I've made a mistake.

I have no reason to not believe what you are saying and I assume you have bench tested S&B, Slagle, AN et al transformers on your workbench and have the objective test results that they do produce all of the effects you say they do. But even then that wouldn't say how they 'sound'.

Based on my experience a normal rotary pot with contacts or wipers degrade over time. They don't follow a linear curve - that I've gleaned from reading many many papers on the subject.

Transformers can suffer from one thing that you didn't mention, core saturation and a loss of bass performance - but I've never encountered it.

Lol
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[williamsgrandad]

Thanks for everyone's input
In the late 70s I had Quad 11s with a two box Concordant and ota esl57s
I then went onto a st20 which over the years weas modded and used with audio synthesis passion
I loved the systems but got to the point where I wanted a change.
I have had Apogee, audio note,living voice to name but a few but none of them done for me what the 57s did
. I then heard a system with set amps and horns,and I was hooked
I got a New Audio Frontiers 845 which I used with Living Voice IBXr2 but I was missing something.
Had an Art Audio Joya with 300bxl which was a great amp with AN ESTATE,but still not for me
I then stumbled on the Tonian Labs speakers and for me it was a wow moment
I now use Audion Elite 3 box 845s with Audio Note M3 pre
The front end is Cec transport with modded Audio Note 2.1x sig dac.
The speakers are very rare Bodnar Sandglass whigh use a Sonido 8" full range driver.
I hope this helps to establish what kind of sound I like.
Everyone likes/wants different things from the system they are using.
Thanks
Ian

[farflungstar]

I think you now have a great many of us salivating lol.

I'm sure it brings you great pleasure.

In my humble opinion - neither the khozmo nor any other resistive volume control would do your system justice.


Adey

In perpetual pursuit.