View Full Version : Caiman with - AKG K701 or ??
So I am currently looking around for a new pair of high end headphones, and at present im being drawn more towards the AKG K701's.
Their wide sound stage, great detail and looks are drawing me ever closer to them. However I have a bit of a niggle....
I have read that plenty of people think they lack in the way of bass. Given that I listen to a fair bit of bass heavy music along with Pop/Rock, Chillout, Jazz this is quite important in my eyes.
My question is, therefore, whether people think they would be well suited to my music taste or whether I should look at something else.
I have looked at the HD650, DT880 and they all have there ups and downs, and are all in my price range.
I will be running whatever I decided to get through the Caiman by the way.
Stan:
If you read this thread, I would love to know what you think of your HD650's and K701's with the Caiman and which one you think is best suited to my music taste.
Many thanks in advance for any input you might have.
I used to have somme Senns, but now I use Audio Technicas.
A W1000 at home and a M50 for traveling. If you like nice, clean, monitor bass, then you probably need a ATH-M50. ;)
Of course, a K701 is a classic, but I can't comment.
The Vinyl Adventure
10-12-2009, 22:04
got a Piaf of these turning up tomorow ...
http://www.themusicking.co.uk/superlux-hd681-headphones
Search tinterweb for them! Seem worth a crack for £18
Shanedudddy2
10-12-2009, 23:01
Go with a different set of headphones if your going to use the caiman as a headphone amp. The K701 REQUIRE a reallly good headphone amp, else the bass and the sound is just not that good. However a good amp and they sound freaking godly.
I`m going to be getting a high quality dedicated preamp and use rca->headphone adaptor for mine soon. I havent heard the 650's through the caiman, but i`d imagine it would be much easier to drive.
Thanks for all your replies.
Ideally I'd like to stick with the Caiman Headphone amp, though depending on price and my wallet, I might upgrade to a dedicated amp at some point in the future.
I wont be using whatever I decide to buy with anything portable, it will always be attached to an amp of sorts.
I'm looking to spend in the region of £150-£250 but might be able to justify slightly more than £250 if need be.
I'm basically looking for the best that my money can buy, whilst giving me enough of a soundstage and detailing to easily pick out and place instruments in the music, but at the same time be laid back enough to allow hours of listening.
These are the headphones I have in my list to consider (In no particular order):
AKG K701
Sennheiser HD650
Grado SR325is (Only if I can find them cheap enough)
Grado SR225i
Denon AH-D2000
Sony MDR-SA5000
Hi
I am using (and I think a few others on here) K701 with the Caiman and if they are under driven and bass shy then I am deaf (what/pardon :lolsign:)
I use WAD 25T speakers with a good valve amp and there is plenty of bass on both them and the AKG's.
The lack of bass rumour seems to come from a mutual slagging match between Sennheiser and AKG users on some other less pleasant fora. There is someone on this forum who has both 650 and 701 and has commented before about them. He may come along and comment later. I just the the 701 and think they are great.
Nick
StanleyB
11-12-2009, 07:20
Well I got a K701, amongst a few others, and I use it for reggae music at times. And with the tweaks I managed to do on my own Caiman, after using my HD800 to perfect them, reproduction from the K701 will be hard to beat by any of the more expensive stand alone headphone amps.
Covenant
11-12-2009, 07:42
got a Piaf of these turning up tomorow ...
http://www.themusicking.co.uk/superlux-hd681-headphones
Search tinterweb for them! Seem worth a crack for £18
What do you think of them Hamish?
The Vinyl Adventure
11-12-2009, 08:23
Should get them today jerry, il let you know!
Hi
I am using (and I think a few others on here) K701 with the Caiman and if they are under driven and bass shy then I am deaf (what/pardon :lolsign:)
I use WAD 25T speakers with a good valve amp and there is plenty of bass on both them and the AKG's.
The lack of bass rumour seems to come from a mutual slagging match between Sennheiser and AKG users on some other less pleasant fora. There is someone on this forum who has both 650 and 701 and has commented before about them. He may come along and comment later. I just the the 701 and think they are great.
Nick
Thats just what I needed to hear. :)
Well I got a K701, amongst a few others, and I use it for reggae music at times. And with the tweaks I managed to do on my own Caiman, after using my HD800 to perfect them, reproduction from the K701 will be hard to beat by any of the more expensive stand alone headphone amps.
I take it then, if I got the K701's the Caiman would drive them well. If I then performed the headphone amp tweaks that you mentioned, they should sound a little bet better. Is that right?
It's a very good headphone James. There're people having other tastes, but you can't be disappointed. ;)
The Grand Wazoo
11-12-2009, 18:42
I'm basically looking for the best that my money can buy, whilst giving me enough of a soundstage and detailing to easily pick out and place instruments in the music, but at the same time be laid back enough to allow hours of listening.
These are the headphones I have in my list to consider (In no particular order):
AKG K701
Sennheiser HD650
Grado SR325is (Only if I can find them cheap enough)
Grado SR225i
Denon AH-D2000
Sony MDR-SA5000
Hi James,
I not going to speak for any of the others but I suspect the Grado 325's might not quite fit your bill.
I've owned a pair for several years and they're fantastic. Their presentation is such that the detailing you seek is there like no other headphone I've ever heard (though I must say I'm not a big headphone fan - but in times when I want to listen right into a mix, I reach for the Grado's).
However it's this very thing that makes me think that they just won't fit the 'laid back' requirement you have.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Thank you everyone for you valued input. :)
At present I am pretty much settled on the AKG 701's over the others.
Now I just have to wait until after Christmas before I go out a buy myself a pair.
The Vinyl Adventure
11-12-2009, 19:20
What do you think of them Hamish?
Supprising! I was sceptical but box fresh they eaqual a box fresh pair of grados 60i's! My bed in 125's are very very different to new ones though so I don't k ow how much that says ... In a few days, when I have some time il have a play and post a thread! So far so good though, through my iPod on the way home they were a very pleasant listen! Not as detailed as grados I don't think and not as balanced... The problem I always have with my grados is their harshness .. These are much more gentle in the treble harshness yet slightly more dynamic! It's quite hard to explain what I mean, hopefully once bed in I can be a bit more useful!
This all said for £20, I you have £20 to burn? Just buy a pair they are certainly worth £20
Covenant
11-12-2009, 19:53
Supprising! I was sceptical but box fresh they eaqual a box fresh pair of grados 60i's! My bed in 125's are very very different to new ones though so I don't k ow how much that says ... In a few days, when I have some time il have a play and post a thread! So far so good though, through my iPod on the way home they were a very pleasant listen! Not as detailed as grados I don't think and not as balanced... The problem I always have with my grados is their harshness .. These are much more gentle in the treble harshness yet slightly more dynamic! It's quite hard to explain what I mean, hopefully once bed in I can be a bit more useful!
This all said for £20, I you have £20 to burn? Just buy a pair they are certainly worth £20
Well I already have a pair! A former AOS member (now sadly banned) recommended them to me (much more enthusiastically) so I ordered them. Before I could even open the box my wife snaffelled them and said I can't have 'em until xmas day!
The Vinyl Adventure
11-12-2009, 19:58
i think i might know which former aos member you speak of jerry, and i think i might have had a similar enthusiastic recomendation! ;)
technobear
12-09-2010, 20:15
I used to have somme Senns, but now I use Audio Technicas.
A W1000 at home and a M50 for traveling. If you like nice, clean, monitor bass, then you probably need a ATH-M50. ;)
I was digging around for info on headphones and came across this old thread. I was looking at the usual suspects, Sennheiser HD600/650, Beyer DT880/990, AKG K701. I have heard HD600 and K701 and while they sound different to my venerable Beyer DT531, they weren't really an improvement. The weak area for me is the bass. It just doesn't have enough weight and impact for rock and pop. The bass is there but it's too lightweight.
It wasn't until I saw this statement from Dimitri that I even knew that Audio-Technica still made high-end 'phones so I did some digging. Seems a lot of folks really like these ATH-M50 so I bought a pair to try. They have been running in for the last 9 days and are now sounding very nice. They were a bit boom 'n' tizz to start with but are now much better controlled and the midrange has blossomed nicely. They are very clear and transparent in the mids with plenty of detail in the highs although a bit sibilant and spitty on the Caiman. A different story on my Burson HA-160 though. Much better treble, much clearer mids and oh boy... that bass! I think the one word I would use to describe these is addictive :)
I've been listening to all sorts with them today and they just make music a pure joy. I think the Beyers will be up for sale and I'll be sticking with closed-back phones from now on.
Thankyou Dimitri :youtheman:
StanleyB
13-09-2010, 11:40
I must confess that after getting the HD800 and D7000 I find the K701 and HD650 very much overrated. The splash and scratchy highs on the later two turn out to be full of fine musical detail with the first two.
I've just received the caiman and I'm using it along with my AKG K701, as a classical music lover I'm delighted... the caiman stands out when there is a lot of instruments playing all together, wich happens often in symphonies
The precision is just incredible, I can hear eveything very distinclty and symphonies final moves are no more smeary as they used to be, every instrument is just here at my ears :)
I can't compare though, I had the K701 since last year and bought the caiman a few weeks ago, HD800 & D7000 are out of my league financially
Chears
Hi 'Aturion',
Welcome to AOS :)
Could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community by supplying your first name, basic geographic location, system details and music tastes, as this is the requirement for all new members joining AOS.
Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
Rare Bird
10-10-2010, 16:08
Anyone tried the Audio-Technica 'ATH M50' with Caiman?
technobear
10-10-2010, 17:31
Anyone tried the Audio-Technica 'ATH M50' with Caiman?
Yes :)
Rare Bird
10-10-2010, 21:00
Yes :)
:lol: Cheers..But what they like as a match with Rock moosik?
technobear
10-10-2010, 21:28
I am spoiled here because I have a dedicated headphone amp - a Burson HA-160 - and both my 'phones sound much better on that than they do from the Caiman.
The sound from the Caiman 'phones out is veiled compared to its fixed output (the same as the pre-amp output is also veiled). The cheap volume pot quite likely plays a large part here. Both 'phones suffer from an overly sibilant and spitty treble when driven by the Caiman.
From the Burson (using the fixed outputs of the Caiman as source) the sound is balanced and natural, very transparent and with no undue emphasis of sibilants or other treble sounds.
As has been indicated in other threads, whilst the LM4562 is an excellent line driver, there are better op-amps for driving 'phones so the answer is to experiment. Stanley seems to recommend the THS4032 in the pre-amp slot if you are using 'phones but keeping the LM4562 in the line slot.
The M50 puts the http://www.technobear.btinternet.co.uk/emoticons/slayer.gif back into rock. They're fun with drum'n'bass and all things electronic too.
Rare Bird
10-10-2010, 22:55
Thanks Chris
Yeh i've seen the Burson (is there a black finish in it)..I like the option of Low or high impedance output also like the large physical size & good construction....The Maverick 'D1' DAC i'm using at the mo can be slightly sibilant on some bright signals & isnt 100% happy with my low impedance phones.
I guess i'll try a pair of 'M50's then..take it from there..Headphones & headphone amps are a nightmare for me to buy..
StanleyB
11-10-2010, 06:59
The comments on the headphone amp are very helpful. I have been experimenting with the original design to see if and how much more better I can get it to perform.
technobear
11-10-2010, 07:31
Based on my experience so far, I would be sure to give any new headphone at least 200 hours break in before judging the sound.
@ Marco : Done by now ; )
Technobear : interesting, I do find the trebles on the AKG + Caiman a bit harsh on Some songs but again I can't compare, on the other hand the bass is spot on for me
Anyway using the AKG along with the caiman is a real delight
technobear
22-10-2010, 22:36
Technobear : interesting, I do find the trebles on the AKG + Caiman a bit harsh on Some songs but again I can't compare, on the other hand the bass is spot on for me
There are many possible causes of harshness. Sometimes it's on the CD and you just have to live with it. Sometimes it's jitter. Sometimes it's good old-fashioned noise. Sometimes it's the limitations of the headphone amp. Changing the headphone op-amp for one of the alternatives like the THS4032 might solve the problem.
How are you feeding your Caiman and from what?
I have been experimenting with the USB input on one of my Caimans this week. I set up a Vista PC and an XP laptop both with Foobar 2000 v1.1 together with the WASAPI plugin. I compared the sound through the Beresford's USB input with the sound using a Squeezebox Classic and a Transporter both feeding the Caiman via coaxial S/P-DIF.
I found that I could not tell any difference between the USB input and the Squeezebox Classic.
The Transporter leaves them both for dead and ground into the dust for good measure.
Considering its price, this is not a bad result for the Caiman. The SB3+Caiman is already better than most budget CD players. If the same can be said for the Caiman's USB input then that is a good result. It is not a giant slayer as a USB DAC though.
It seems from all the reviews of USB DACs so far, that only 'asynchronous USB' DACs have the potential to topple the Transporter. Roll on the Audiolab MDAC.
Sorry for the slight off topic.
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