View Full Version : Sugden A21a With Harbeth SHL5
southall-1998
02-11-2016, 20:32
Has anyone here tried this combo? If so, good results?
S.
Yes, a few years back mind. I'd say that if your priority doesn't lie around bass performance, it's as good as anything I've heard. The bass however was limited in terms of punch and depth. Still energetic enough to be enjoyable, just lacking a bit of tension to be the complete package. Top end and mids were sublime mind.
My SHL5s :eek:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/bigbourne/null_zps1a40a5db.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/bigbourne/media/null_zps1a40a5db.jpg.html)
Yes, a few years back mind. I'd say that if your priority doesn't lie around bass performance, it's as good as anything I've heard. The bass however was limited in terms of punch and depth. Still energetic enough to be enjoyable, just lacking a bit of tension to be the complete package. Top end and mids were sublime mind.
My SHL5s :eek:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/bigbourne/null_zps1a40a5db.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/bigbourne/media/null_zps1a40a5db.jpg.html)
Novel way of port tuning, I presume she has a twin for the other cabinet:D
My wife sent me that photo one day when I was at work, you can imagine my panic!
:steam::stalks:.......And we are the ones to get a hard time for not supervising the kids properly when accidents happen!!!!!!!
jandl100
03-11-2016, 07:35
It was lucky she couldn't reach the tweeter - instant finger poke would have been inevitable, for some reason the wee bairns just can't resist it!
southall-1998
03-11-2016, 09:55
Do those 'open frame' stands work well with the SHL5's?
S.
hifi_dave
03-11-2016, 10:09
I have used the Sugden several times with Harbeth SHL5 and it works OK. Not ideal because the power is a bit limiting for higher volume levels.
The SHL5+ need open frame stands without a top plate. Don't bother with solid, mass loaded stands.
southall-1998
03-11-2016, 10:12
I have used the Sugden several times with Harbeth SHL5 and it works OK. Not ideal because the power is a bit limiting for higher volume levels.
The SHL5+ need open frame stands without a top plate. Don't bother with solid, mass loaded stands.
Does that also include the Masterclass series?
S.
Open framed stands were much better than heavy ones.
hifi_dave
03-11-2016, 11:03
On a couple of occasions I have used the integrated but that is more powerful, so no problems.
Do those 'open frame' stands work well with the SHL5's?
S.
'Those' stands look like Heybrook HBS1's to me, which should be fine as long as a small bump-on foot is placed at each corner of the top plate. These stands are around 18" from memory and what I should have here, only herself forbade them when I tried to use some previous HL5's on a set. The UK recommended stands are by Something Solid, and these work really well as Dave's said above (I think I sold these stands years before Dave knew about them, by the way and may have even introduced him to them although I forget now, so am not influenced by his recommendation...).
Shane, SHL5's, in particular the current Plus version, are potentially ruthless at reproducing colourations further back in the chain, with none of the added 'warmth' of yore to help tame the worst excesses of a harsh or soggy amp or source. They change with the recording in a most 'monitor' kind of way and I still find this disconcerting, although it's not a fault of the speaker, just rarely heard in a domestic product and almost never in the post BC1, mid period 'BBC Derived' stodge-boxes still doing the rounds with a 'BBC' badge on the back... (none of these are used the way the BBC often used them - a good few feet off the floor and well clear of room boundaries I recall...)
I heard two Sugden integrateds at hifi dave's a few years ago. One was very nice indeed and the other a soggy thick toned dogs dinner, sounding to me like over-egged 'Class A.'
By the way, according to the manufacturer, Harbeths are designed and 'voiced' with the grilles in situ and the frames are deliberately designed to fit tightly and snuggly so they can't be inadvertently removed. of course, we audio types like to show out speakers off, so off they come, much to the designer's despair - and a more tempting article for toddler's hands I can hardly imagine. My ATC 20 pros had both mid domes and tweeter domes pushed in, one driver twice, when our son was very small, as these had no grilles at all. Fortunately, gooey doped cloth on the domes made them able to be recovered with no scarring...
southall-1998
03-11-2016, 19:22
'Those' stands look like Heybrook HBS1's to me, which should be fine as long as a small bump-on foot is placed at each corner of the top plate. These stands are around 18" from memory and what I should have here, only herself forbade them when I tried to use some previous HL5's on a set. The UK recommended stands are by Something Solid, and these work really well as Dave's said above (I think I sold these stands years before Dave knew about them, by the way and may have even introduced him to them although I forget now, so am not influenced by his recommendation...).
Shane, SHL5's, in particular the current Plus version, are potentially ruthless at reproducing colourations further back in the chain, with none of the added 'warmth' of yore to help tame the worst excesses of a harsh or soggy amp or source. They change with the recording in a most 'monitor' kind of way and I still find this disconcerting, although it's not a fault of the speaker, just rarely heard in a domestic product and almost never in the post BC1, mid period 'BBC Derived' stodge-boxes still doing the rounds with a 'BBC' badge on the back... (none of these are used the way the BBC often used them - a good few feet off the floor and well clear of room boundaries I recall...)
I heard two Sugden integrateds at hifi dave's a few years ago. One was very nice indeed and the other a soggy thick toned dogs dinner, sounding to me like over-egged 'Class A.'
By the way, according to the manufacturer, Harbeths are designed and 'voiced' with the grilles in situ and the frames are deliberately designed to fit tightly and snuggly so they can't be inadvertently removed. of course, we audio types like to show out speakers off, so off they come, much to the designer's despair - and a more tempting article for toddler's hands I can hardly imagine. My ATC 20 pros had both mid domes and tweeter domes pushed in, one driver twice, when our son was very small, as these had no grilles at all. Fortunately, gooey doped cloth on the domes made them able to be recovered with no scarring...
Which of the other Harbeth models, would you describe as more forgiving?
S.
hifi_dave
04-11-2016, 10:08
It's not a case of being "forgiving" or 'ruthless' - Harbeth speakers are natural and well balanced. The majority of modern speakers are thin toned and bright. The harbeths are well balanced and 'normal'.
walpurgis
04-11-2016, 10:38
Have you considered Spendor speakers Shane?
southall-1998
04-11-2016, 11:06
Have you considered Spendor speakers Shane?
TBH, not really Geoff.
I still have memories. Of hearing a pair off Spendor S8 speakers, back in 2003.
They certainly produced an even-handed presentation, sounded pleasant enough. Bass was nice, and had texture to it.
S.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 12:38
'Those' stands look like Heybrook HBS1's to me, which should be fine as long as a small bump-on foot is placed at each corner of the top plate. These stands are around 18" from memory and what I should have here, only herself forbade them when I tried to use some previous HL5's on a set. The UK recommended stands are by Something Solid, and these work really well as Dave's said above (I think I sold these stands years before Dave knew about them, by the way and may have even introduced him to them although I forget now, so am not influenced by his recommendation...).
Shane, SHL5's, in particular the current Plus version, are potentially ruthless at reproducing colourations further back in the chain, with none of the added 'warmth' of yore to help tame the worst excesses of a harsh or soggy amp or source. They change with the recording in a most 'monitor' kind of way and I still find this disconcerting, although it's not a fault of the speaker, just rarely heard in a domestic product and almost never in the post BC1, mid period 'BBC Derived' stodge-boxes still doing the rounds with a 'BBC' badge on the back... (none of these are used the way the BBC often used them - a good few feet off the floor and well clear of room boundaries I recall...)
I heard two Sugden integrateds at hifi dave's a few years ago. One was very nice indeed and the other a soggy thick toned dogs dinner, sounding to me like over-egged 'Class A.'
By the way, according to the manufacturer, Harbeths are designed and 'voiced' with the grilles in situ and the frames are deliberately designed to fit tightly and snuggly so they can't be inadvertently removed. of course, we audio types like to show out speakers off, so off they come, much to the designer's despair - and a more tempting article for toddler's hands I can hardly imagine. My ATC 20 pros had both mid domes and tweeter domes pushed in, one driver twice, when our son was very small, as these had no grilles at all. Fortunately, gooey doped cloth on the domes made them able to be recovered with no scarring...
There is no specific sound to class A! Whilst it is technically superior to ALL other types of amplifier, there will be the same variation between brands and models as with any other type...
That's why I said 'Over egged Class A' as in some Sugdens, which sound slushy to me, deliberately?
hell, I've heard old huge Class A Krells which are anything but 'coloured' in a soft toned way. Sorry for never explaining myself properly :(
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 17:53
That's why I said 'Over egged Class A' as in some Sugdens, which sound slushy to me, deliberately?
hell, I've heard old huge Class A Krells which are anything but 'coloured' in a soft toned way. Sorry for never explaining myself properly :(
No problem David:) Shane should be able to tell you all about it in a few days time;)
The Krell's a good example yes.
Carrying on from a Shane question above, I sold and loved the Spendor S6 and S8 and the Se versions tautened the bass to mid balance up nicely I felt.
I apologise if my 'ruthless' comment was misconstrued (a lot of my more outlandish comments are, so apologies to all). I just meant to say that in my opinion, the current 5 Plus model allows more of what's happening further back to come through unimpeded.. NO Harbeth ever made has ever sounded clinical or 'monitor-harsh' and I doubt ever will, but the gradual freshening up of the sound as their evolution goes on just helps the speaker disappear better than ever before imo and makes integration into less than perfect (smaller?) rooms so much easier I think.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 18:12
I've never heard a bad Spendor or Harbeth speaker.. still have some BCII's in reserve myself...
I still use mine, which aren't quite original now - replacement updated drivers from SA2's needing the Hf1300's to be padded down a little more (help given with grateful thanks from Derek Hughes, son of Spen). They're not as 'integrated' as my SHL5's and won't go as loud without sounding as if they're shaking apart, but 'in this room' they're really wonderful and will do for now, saggy knackered grilles and all... Been using the Quad 303 and they work so well together I wonder if this was the amp Spendor used in the design process, as the Quad will definitely have an effect on the speaker response I think, due to high output impedance (another thread topic I wonder?)
hifi_dave
04-11-2016, 18:33
I believe the Quad 303 was used by Spencer Hughes, as when I bought my BC1s, back in the late 70s from John Shuttleworth, he said that it was used during development. That was good news to me because I owned one of the first 303 at that time.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 18:39
I still use mine, which aren't quite original now - replacement updated drivers from SA2's needing the Hf1300's to be padded down a little more (help given with grateful thanks from Derek Hughes, son of Spen). They're not as 'integrated' as my SHL5's and won't go as loud without sounding as if they're shaking apart, but 'in this room' they're really wonderful and will do for now, saggy knackered grilles and all... Been using the Quad 303 and they work so well together I wonder if this was the amp Spendor used in the design process, as the Quad will definitely have an effect on the speaker response I think, due to high output impedance (another thread topic I wonder?)
Yeah the grille cloth went Nora Batty's stockings on mine too! Previous owner had them piano lacquered black which looks ace!
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 18:51
The 303 was great for the time but I'm afraid I've never really "got" what some see in them... Nothing about the sound is bad but nothings excellent either IMHO... A bit dynamically soft, a bit lacking in bass slam, a bit lacking in detail and transparency... Fine in isolation but replace one with a more modern amp and switch back on and it's "Ah! that's more like it" if you know what I mean... mind you the occasion when I remember a mate and myself comparing 303's to other amps they were up against a couple of my designs and a me modded Exposure 4 dual regulated so it may not have been a "fair" comparison!
walpurgis
04-11-2016, 18:57
Nothing about the sound is bad but nothings excellent either IMHO... A bit dynamically soft, a bit lacking in bass slam, a bit lacking in detail and transparency... Fine in isolation but replace one with a more modern amp and switch back on and it's "Ah! that's more like it"
That's exactly the impression the 303 has given me, on the few occasions I've tried one. Still, it was better than the 22.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 19:07
That's exactly the impression the 303 has given me, on the few occasions I've tried one. Still, it was better than the 22.
The valve pre amp? Awful things....
walpurgis
04-11-2016, 19:42
The valve pre amp? Awful things....
Sorry. Meant the Quad 2 power amps. Had those and wasn't impressed.
Coming back to the OP. Shane, why did you ask this question? After the stuff you've had, neither product is what I'd call 'Shane fodder' in any shape or form and you've had several basic examples of a far better amp range too (NVA AP10P)...
southall-1998
04-11-2016, 19:49
Sorry. Meant the Quad 2 power amps. Had those and wasn't impressed.
Geoff, you'd make a lovely werther's original Grandad on TV. Have some old Quad II's showing in the background too :D
S.
southall-1998
04-11-2016, 19:52
Coming back to the OP. Shane, why did you ask this question? After the stuff you've had, neither product is what I'd call 'Shane fodder' in any shape or form and you've had several basic examples of a far better amp range too (NVA AP10P)...
We have a rear garden cabin room now. Fair wide space inside of it too!! Hence why I'm asking these speaker combo questions.
S.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2016, 20:20
Sorry. Meant the Quad 2 power amps. Had those and wasn't impressed.
Odd but clever circuit design.... about as accurate as a political manifesto but can sound impressive with the right speakers... so long as you play the right music! I did a complete rebuild of a pair about a year ago and tried them on my KEF R105.3's to demo them to customer (last of KEF speakers to have their conjugate load matching and so very easy to drive). They made familiar material sound completely different to what I knew it was supposed to sound like....but in the case of laid back uncomplicated jazz in a pretty impressive way.. sounded very nice with "Jazz at the pawnshop", sax seemed to leap out of speakers...they could make some other music sound awful as well! Best regarded as "tone controls":D
Coming back to the OP. Shane, why did you ask this question? After the stuff you've had, neither product is what I'd call 'Shane fodder' in any shape or form and you've had several basic examples of a far better amp range too (NVA AP10P)...
Who says NVA is a far better amp range than the A21a? You I suppose :rolleyes:
Don't you get paid for making NVA? And where in this thread was it mentioned before you popped up to promote it?
Who says NVA is a far better amp range than the A21a? You I suppose :rolleyes:
Don't you get paid for making NVA? And where in this thread was it mentioned before you popped up to promote it?
Oh dear [emoji20]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.