Morning: Great....Afternoon: ye gods

[Gordon Steadman]

I advertised a couple of pairs of speakers on LeBonCoin - France's online second hand selling shop - and a couple of French guys came to look at them this morning. They bought both pairs....and a CD player....and a record player...and some Celestion drivers. A bit chuffed to make about 500% profit, they got bargains but most of the stuff I got free and fixed. Whilst they were there, listening to the Quads, one of them invited me to visit his place to listen to his hi-fi.

So orf we toddled in the afternoon. I've asked him to send pics which I will post if he remembers. His lounge looks 100% more cluttered than AudioAl's. Nope...make that 500% again. To get through it you have to be good at climbing. Home made speakers everywhere along with some tasty bits from Altec Lancing. Huge and I do mean mountainous versions of Tannoy horns with 15" drivers, must have been eight feet tall, one white and one pink for some reason!!! None of his speakers have crossovers. They are all put through a studio mixing desk so he adjust them every whichway. I didn't see the amps but he said there were six of them, all around 500 watts a channel. In addition to the cabinets, he has two 18" drivers in the floor, one facing up and one down. The basement is full height. On top are huge Altec Lancing horn loaded tweeters and a supertweeter.

So how did it sound?

The system played loud, so loud that Ronnie had to leave the room. It played so low that my stomach was vibrating. There was enormous headroom, totally unstrained at concert levels. As I said the impact was visceral and I'm sure lots of people would love it. I hated it. It reminded me of the Wilson set up I heard in Absolute sounds with Krell amps - only bigger and louder. Terrific hi-fi and crap music, treble too sharp and lacking tonality. As I had played him Time Out he did the same and I felt I was listening to three cartoon characters playing. The image was far too wide and diffuse and I missed all the subtleties and got all the wham bams. Such a relief to get back to the Quads and the illusion of listening to three guys playing real instruments. Not surprisingly, he lives on his own and has no neighbours within a kilometre or so - unless you count the horses!.

Judging from the stuff in the room I would guess expenditure in the tens of thousands. It is clear that he loves it and his mate is duly impressed. Naturally, we said how much we enjoyed it and how wonderful it was.

Lying to the bloke after he gave us some great flambe bananas and ice cream too!!

[Firebottle]

Great write up Gordon, we've had a laugh reading that.

Can understand where you are coming from being a '57 man myself.

[Jimbo]

That must have been an experience! :lol:

[Gordon Steadman]

That must have been an experience! :lol:
Well, the bananas were very good:)

[Gordon Steadman]

Great write up Gordon, we've had a laugh reading that.

Can understand where you are coming from being a '57 man myself.
Happy to entertain. It's strange what different things people want from their hi-fi!!

[Michael loves music]

As I read this I'm listening to radio 2 on a pure DRX 701es tuner with a Nad 310 amp and JPW sonata speakers sounds very nice indeed

[Macca]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using a mixing desk as an active crossover. How does that work?

[Gordon Steadman]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using a mixing desk as an active crossover. How does that work?

Pass:lol:

Hi or low, not sure:eyebrows:

[Marco]

Great write-up, Gordon... Sounds like an interesting afternoon. It's always fun (and usually educational) meeting such characters and listening to their 'take' on music reproduction, along with their quirky systems!

I agree with where you're coming from though: no point in just having a system with serious 'balls', without the subtleties absolutely crucial for turning mere SOUND into believable music.

For me, you need BOTH to achieve genuine realism and for the result to be musically satisfying, but I'd always trade a little 'balls' for musicality - as trust me, I know exactly where you're coming from on both counts. I've heard systems such as you've described that major on 'hi-fi pyrotechnics' but are as tuneless as Cliff Richard on acid!

My Lockies (and indeed most decent large Tannoy DCs I've heard) do both scale and subtlety, especially when partnered with a capable valve amp :)

Oh, and I appreciate why you lied, but I'm always (politely) honest when assessing someone's system, otherwise no-one learns anything. It's possible to be critical, but in a nice way, and highlight both the strengths and weaknesses of a system without offending your host, as no system or pair of speakers is perfect - and so any level-headed dude should be able to handle a little constructive criticism ;)

The bananas sound wonderful!

Marco.

P.S When the pics arrive, I'll move this into Community Network.

[Audio Al]

His lounge looks 100% more cluttered than AudioAl's. Nope...make that 500% again.

OK looks like I must try harder :D

:worthless:

[eksiil]

an exemplary cautionary tale. but one that makes you wish you'd been there.

I second Marco here. scale is not to be trifled with. years ago a friend got me to go to a hifi show in Belgium. there was a room featuring a €50k turntable (swimming in water I seem to recall) feeding into amplification the particulars of which have faded in memory, with some cinema-size stacked speakers on the end of it all. visceral can be good. we both still talk about it, listening to dozens of delicate valves sounding very lifelike (OK at maybe a 10th of the price of that "system") -- and we'd both rather be there again for that one side of a commercially pressed lowly LP I also happen to own (Tanita Tikaram).

[Marco]

His lounge looks 100% more cluttered than AudioAl's. Nope...make that 500% again.

OK looks like I must try harder :D

:worthless:

Wotcha gunna do [unlikely as it is, I know] if you pull a burd and want to take her back to your place to 'seal the deal', as it were. Due to the lack of space, will you have to do it standing up? :D

Marco.

[Audio Al]

Oh the shame , I am tidying up at the moment ;)

[Arkless Electronics]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using a mixing desk as an active crossover. How does that work?

Very badly!

[DSJR]

I've had to do a lot of thinking as regards rooms and speaker choices lately. Although one can fit a good well controlled pair of largish speakers in a small room (Marco does it with his Tannoy Lockwoods and I did in an even smaller room with 'briks and NS1000's amongst others), the huge US made cone-n-horn types will probably need a largish US-style living room so you can get back from them and let them 'gel' properly. Just thoughts, but recent experiences here have pulled me up short...

Quad 57's in a larger room will need doubling up or even quadding up (sorry :lol:) per channel to enable them to move enough air. In a smaller sitting room, they're so enchanting and musically intimate' in a good way. I found Spendor BC1's like this too as long as there were no mid-bass issues in the room and the bass-better BC2's do this every day for me at present.

The chuck-it-all-in system described above is probably the aural equivalent of a hot-rod car only just able to be open-road worthy. One reason why, had I the money to burn, I'd probably go for a comfy, capable, quietly spoken Jag, rather than an aggressive Beemer or currently even more aggressive Audi - and I tended to feel lost, sitting 'on' a Merc, as they seemed to be designed for far broader beams than mine and I don't feel comfortable, although it's a while since I was given a lift in one, let alone driven one.

I have fond memories of (currently perceived) large IMF's in typical UK living rooms - RSPM's and similar size. It actually worked, as the mid bass lift in these rooms worked to flesh out the mid to upper bass in the speakers, which saved it all for the very low end to subsonic rumbles.

[Marco]

I tended to feel lost, sitting 'on' a Merc, as they seemed to be designed for far broader beams than mine and I don't feel comfortable, although it's a while since I was given a lift in one, let alone driven one.


Depends on the Merc, mate, and what seats it's been fitted with. C-classes and below these days have pretty normal-sized seats. It's only really up from that that you might encounter 'boat seats', designed for, shall we say, 'ample-sized' German arses... ;)

I don't think you'd have any problem with those fitted in the Brabster (Del's tiny, and she's been to France and back, sat in the front passenger seat, with no complaints), as long as you can get in and out ok of cars fitted with lowered sports suspension, at your tender age! :eyebrows:

Agree wholeheartedly with your point about large speakers in small rooms. Too many folk assess such in an overtly judgemental, 'black or white' way, including your muppet-loving friend 'over the road'...

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

I've installed many large - huge speakers in small rooms. With a bit of judicious sound absorbent and diffusion, they all sounded excellent, even though they looked like a mismatch.

There are many more problems attempting to use small speakers in large rooms.

[Gordon Steadman]

Very badly!
Surprisingly, in hi-fi terms, it worked pretty well. the balance across the spectrum was very even and the sound very open. It just didn't make me want to listen.

[Marco]

I've installed many large - huge speakers in small rooms. With a bit of judicious sound absorbent and diffusion, they all sounded excellent, even though they looked like a mismatch.

There are many more problems attempting to use small speakers in large rooms.

Indeed, Dave!

One of my mates (who's room is only a little larger than mine), back in the days when we used to have Naim gear, had all sorts of problems with bass boom, using a pair of Credos. It was truly dire. He then moved to NBLs, which was a bit better, but by no means ideal.

The problem, however, was only fully cured when he got some DBLs!! :eyebrows:

Now he uses a pair of Tannoy Canterburys very happily in the same space...... There's a lesson to be learned in there I'm sure ;)

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

His lounge looks 100% more cluttered than AudioAl's. Nope...make that 500% again.

OK looks like I must try harder :D

:worthless:

I'm working on it. I didn't have my camera with me and I don't have a phone.

[hifi_dave]

Indeed, Dave!

One of my mates (who's room is only a little larger than mine), back in the days when we used to have Naim gear, had all sorts of problems with bass boom, using a pair of Intros. It was truly dire. He then moved to NBLs, which was a little better.

The problem, however, was only fully cured when he got some DBLs!! :eyebrows:

Now he uses a pair of Tannoy Canterburys very happily in the same space...... There's a lesson to be learned in there I'm sure ;)

Marco.

I wonder if it down to little speakers attempting to sound 'large' by having a bass hump, which reacts with the room ?

[Gordon Steadman]

Oh, and I appreciate why you lied, but I'm always (politely) honest when assessing someone's system, otherwise no-one learns anything. It's possible to be critical, but in a nice way, and highlight both the strengths and weaknesses of a system without offending your host, as no system or pair of speakers is perfect - and so any level-headed dude should be able to handle a little constructive criticism ;)

The bananas sound wonderful!

Marco.

P.S When the pics arrive, I'll move this into Community Network.

My French isn't really up to saying much more than thanks and great!!

[Marco]

I wonder if it down to little speakers attempting to sound 'large' by having a bass hump, which reacts with the room ?

Possibly, and seems feasible. The other thing is that, with a suitable amp, you don't have to push large speakers hard to generate a 'big sound', so consequently they're not being played as loudly, and so less likely to 'excite' room modes.

The opposite is true with small speakers. Also, ports come into it. In general, I'm more of a fan of sealed-box (or no box) designs.

Something's going on for sure, as over the years I've had more problems successfully accommodating small speakers in small-ish rooms than big ones [tall, ported floorstanding designs need not apply] in the same space, as long as near-field listening isn't an issue :exactly:

Marco.

[Marco]

My French isn't really up to saying much more than thanks and great!!

Wot - all those years living in France, and that's all you've learned? Typical lazy-arsed Englishman! :ner:;)

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

Wot - all those years living in France, and that's all you've learned? Typical lazy Englishman! :ner:;)

Marco.
How true, I do rely on Ronnie far too much.

However, one of my many excuses is that I can't understand them so find conversation difficult. With English, quite a bit of my understanding comes through lip reading. With French, I just can't get anything from it. Deafness causes many problems. Not just listening to music but human interaction and sociability. It's easier sometimes, just to lock yourself away and put the headphones on:(

I do find it hard to feel sorry for myself but I'm working on it, especially the poor me expression when Ronnie has just made fresh scones. "Are you sure you can't manage another one?" "Oh well' I suppose I........":eyebrows:

[Marco]

How true, I do rely on Ronnie far too much.


Maybe she should've provided the critique then? ;)


However, one of my many excuses is that I can't understand them so find conversation difficult. With English, quite a bit of my understanding comes through lip reading. With French, I just can't get anything from it. Deafness causes many problems. Not just listening to music but human interaction and sociability. It's easier sometimes, just to lock yourself away and put the headphones on...


Jeez mate, I thought it was poor sight you were suffering from, not poor hearing, too! Didn't know that, soz.


I do find it hard to feel sorry for myself but I'm working on it, especially the poor me expression when Ronnie has just made fresh scones. "Are you sure you can't manage another one?" "Oh well' I suppose I........":eyebrows:

Ha - nice one. Good attitude. If life teaches us anything, it's that there's always someone else out there who's worse off than you....

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

His friend has just sent through a few pics!!

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5627/30084735053_c47b231263.jpg

https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5443/30418764690_0e12dbdd9c.jpg

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5806/30719350725_2ea497dc68.jpg

Obviously before Ronnie left the room holding her ears in agony. I'm surprised mine didn't explode. I'm luckier than her though, I can switch mine off:lol:

[Firebottle]

Bliddy nora :eek:

[Marco]

Interesting! Quite a good impression of scale in the third picture, as otherwise those are the dinkiest little stand-mount speakers I've ever seen, or those ominous looking black things beside them are HUGE! :eek:

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

Interesting! Quite a good impression of scale in the third picture, as otherwise those are the dinkiest little stand-mount speakers I've ever seen, or those ominous looking black things beside them are HUGE! :eek:

Marco.

EVERYTHING in there is huge. Actually, those white thingies were the best sounding thing he played us. Basically, it's just three boxes joined together with a frame, all paper coned drivers and it sounded relatively natural besides the others. About my height!!

I didn't see the amps as I said but the CD player was a Wadia which I'd never heard before. Seemed OK.