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The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 20:56
I have often stumbled accross people talking about this lampizator conversion, I have read his site a few times, but don't really have much of an idea of what he's talking about
I had pretty much figured it was something that should only be done to low end gear to make it good, but it's just been talked about in another thread as something that improves high end stuff too
so, can this be done to any digital source, would it be a possible or sencible thing to do to a majik ds to get a bit more out of it?
What does it actually do?
Layman's terms please :)

Primalsea
29-11-2009, 21:09
The cynical response which is not entirely untrue is that its just to scratch an itch to put a tube circuit on the end of a solid state circuit to somehow make it magically better than before. I say this as I have found that most of the tube based line level stages I have heard were softer in the bass compared to solid state ones. This includes ones in some expensive equipment too.

However thats not to say that done well it wont be good. IMO the danger is that if its not considered properly all you are doing bolting on a tube circuit for the sake of it.

Marco
29-11-2009, 21:14
Hi Paul,


The cynical response which is not entirely untrue is that its just to scratch an itch to put a tube circuit on the end of a solid state circuit to somehow make it magically better than before. I say this as I have found that most of the tube based line level stages I have heard were softer in the bass compared to solid state ones. This includes ones in some expensive equipment too.


I don't doubt your experience, but mine is completely the opposite! I suspect that the real truth lies in your second paragraph ;)

Also, I've recently heard (at length in my own system) a superb DAC with a tube-based output stage belonging to Duncan (tubehunter)... 'Soft' sounding it most definitely isn't!! This (along with Kirk's report in The Gallery in 'My Kit') is what prompted Hamish's thread here.

My view is that if tubes are implemented into the circuit for the right reasons, and done so effectively, then they give all equipment a magic that to my ears is completely lacking in anything with transistors only under the hood...

Marco.

Primalsea
29-11-2009, 21:23
Put it this way.

Audio Research SP11 & SP15 - definitely not soft in the bass but these are well conceived right from the off. However I found the Unico CD player soft in the bass and it just seemed like it has a tube circuit or two for the sake of it.

Its all about what you do, not what you use IMO.

Marco
29-11-2009, 21:32
However I found the Unico CD player soft in the bass and it just seemed like it has a tube circuit or two for the sake of it.

Its all about what you do, not what you use IMO.


Now *that* I completely agree with!

The trick is to find kit where tubes are featured in the design on merit, and have been implemented correctly to phenomenal sonic effect. When most people hear that, there is usually no going back to ss ;)

Hamish's recent experience in that area is a valid case in point!

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 21:41
... It's kind o why I'm intrigued by it to be fair!

Themis
29-11-2009, 21:41
Alex (ANT) had given the other day a "strange" opinion about a page of the site : http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=80350&postcount=51

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 21:46
That is certainly a fairly difinitive comment from someone who I would guess to have a fairly informed opinion!

Themis
29-11-2009, 21:47
That is certainly a fairly difinitive comment from someone who I would guess to have a fairly informed opinion!
That's what seemed to me also, and is why I mentionned it...
Alex is not the kind to give opinions easily, it seems.

Put simply, how easy is it to put a 2nd harmonic distortion generator in a signal path ? ;)

Marco
29-11-2009, 21:54
Examining the link, Alex wrote:


The guy who does those Lampizator valve mods has an interesting page regarding the CEC belt driven transport that was reviewed as being very warm and musical, especially in the mid-range..

Read his deconstruction of it here

In brief (I know how people hate to click on the links) he found that the s/pdif output trace (for a single frequency sine wave being played I guess) was being deliberately doctored, shaped so as to induce jitter and so sound warm!


Now that may be the case with the Lampizator mods (I've no idea, as I've not heard them), but I can state quite categorically that most definitely is not the case with Duncan's copper DAC!

There is definitely a magic (nothing to do with warmth or 'romance') which Dunc's DAC has that my (already superb) Audiocom-modded Sony lacks, and experience suggests that it's mainly down to the tube output stage...

...Which brings us back to the "Its all about what you do, not what you use" scenario :)

Marco.

Themis
29-11-2009, 21:56
Marko, what Alex wrote is

I did click on the link and even read the page. That guy doesn't know what he is talking about (put it mildly).
Don't kow why (I'm not a technical guy) but I guess Alex knows better.

Marco
29-11-2009, 22:08
Hi Dimitri,

I have no view on the design abilities (or lack thereof) of the Lampizator chap. I don't know anything about him, and I am not technically qualified to comment on the design of his products. What I do know for sure, however, are two things:

1) Duncan makes quite phenomenal sounding D.I.Y designs, tube-based and ss. I respect his talents immensely. He is 'wedded' to neither technology.

2) I can say the same of Alex, too, with the equipment he designs, with one small proviso...

Alex doesn't make tube gear, commercially, as far as I know, and so *may* be slightly biased towards the efficacy (for him) of solid-state circuits.

Marco.

John
29-11-2009, 22:12
Duncan DAC is pretty special I have no idea about the mod I would tend to go down Audiocom route myself or better still get Duncan to build you one of his DACs

Themis
29-11-2009, 22:15
Yes Marco. No worries about Duncan or Croft or whoever. No worries about tubes either.

Nevertheless, the article that Alex commented on (and said he read entirely), had nothing to do with tubes... so I guess Alex's opinion is fair.

Now, I have no opinion, perhaps other mods can be better, but it looks strange to me...

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 22:18
It is certainly a difficult thing to judge! Concidering alex's recent acolade I personally would think it wise to seek more opinion on having any modifications implemented before going ahead!

Themis
29-11-2009, 22:28
It is certainly a difficult thing to judge! Concidering alex's recent acolade I personally would think it wise to seek more opinion on having any modifications implemented before going ahead!
That reflects my opinion too.

(is there something in common between Duncan and Lampizator ? :confused:)

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 22:28
If it is so open to debate weather lampizatoring a majik (or indeed anything) I'm now wondering if one of these valve dacs would work well with my majik?
Does Duncan make many of these things?

Themis
29-11-2009, 22:29
Hamish, why wouldn't you wait to have your amp before modifying the dac ? ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 22:33
I'm speaking hypotheticaly at the moment dimitri, I am more than happy with the sound I am sure to be getting and have many other upgrades I intend to do to my 1210 before anything else, I'm just interested :)

Marco
29-11-2009, 22:35
Duncan DAC is pretty special I have no idea about the mod I would tend to go down Audiocom route myself or better still get Duncan to build you one of his DACs

Hi John,

That was the plan. However, the Sony still has certain qualities that I like. I do love the sound of TDA1541s when implemented successfuly to the degree which they are in my Audiocom-modded Sony, so part of me can't help wondering what the DAS-R1 would sound like with a tube output stage, probably designed by the Duncan ;)

Decisions, decisions!! :eyebrows:

Now can anyone from a technical background answer the original thread topic for Hamish?

Marco.

Marco
29-11-2009, 22:41
(is there something in common between Duncan and Lampizator ?


Do you mean in a commercial sense? If so, no. I'm not even sure Dunc thinks his stuff is any good... Dunc's his own man. I'm sure he'll comment in due course :)

Regarding accolades, I'm 100% certain that if Duncan could turn his copper DAC into a full-blown commercial product, it (and he) would win many accolades! ;)

Quite simply, along with Anthony TD, he's one of the most talented equipment designers I've met, simply because he is such a perfectionist and so methodical and dedicated to the task.

This will no doubt embarrass him a little, as he's a rather modest and unassuming chap, but I have no problem doing the praising for him! Credit where credit is due.

Marco.

Primalsea
29-11-2009, 22:41
This might seem a bit zen but you have to really think about what it is you are trying to achieve. I personally dont believe you will get optimum results by sticking a valve circuit on the end of something.

The whole concept of the equipment from the ground up should be on the basis that it is where possible a tube design. This effects everything from position of components, termination of connections, shielding, earthing schemes, cooling etc etc.

The Majik was conceived and designed as a solid state unit with (hopefully) what the designer had in mind as the most optimum possible with the components being used. It also has its "house" sound and being a Majik that will be at the other end of the dipole to what you might consider "valve sound".

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 22:50
As I said I'm not really trying to achive anything, I'm just after opinion and info! This is an area of hifi that not only do I not have any knowledge about and zero experience of!
It does make sence what you have just said Paul, but surly that could be said about anything, and in terms of the conversation would mean that Duncan's dacs are in fact pointless? If something improves the sound of something else, for whatever reason, then surely that is a good thing even if it does fo against the original design concept?

Themis
29-11-2009, 22:51
Perhaps Marco can lend you the Duncan dac for a few days ? :) (now, I'm dead ! the day of my birthday!)

Marco
29-11-2009, 22:53
This might seem a bit zen but you have to really think about what it is you are trying to achieve. I personally dont believe you will get optimum results by sticking a valve circuit on the end of something.


In general, I'd agree with this. I don't think putting a tube output stage on Hamish's Majik DS would be a good idea. Tube output stages should really be factored into the equation at the beginning of a component's design concept.

Rather than fitting a tube output stage to his Majik, Hamish should instead get a copper DAC to connect to the optical or coaxial output, and by-pass the Majik's in-built DAC. I think that I could confidently predict the outcome of that one! :eyebrows:

The thing is, nothing is written in stone in this game. If I can put a tube output stage on the Sony at relatively low cost, then I'm willing to take a punt on it and discover what the outcome is :)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 22:57
I could of course bring my majik ds next march! I'd be interested to see how it holds up against some high end cd players!
I would of course then be able to put a duncan dac with it .. Provided there was one there I suppose?

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:01
Indeed... One of Dunc's DACs belonging to Steve (or possibly both of them if I end up with a copper one) will be there, so hopefully you'll be able to hear your Majik DS through both of them ;)

If it's got a coaxial output, you'll also be able to hear it through the Sony... Oh the fun and games we've got lined up for Scalford! :eyebrows:

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:06
... It's only digital out is coaxial, happy days!
It's a bit of a faff, I'd need to bring my ds, router, pc and hdd... But I guess it would be worth while! It does sound like it will be a good day!! I've just been telling hannah about scalford, she says I have just stepped up a geek rung on the ladder of geekyness!

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:08
Hehe... It's called the 'AoS effect'! You'll get used to it in time :lolsign:


It's a bit of a faff, I'd need to bring my ds, router, pc and hdd... But I guess it would be worth while! It does sound like it will be a good day!!


Does the Majik play CDs, too? If so, you could simply compare the results with it as a CD player... If Dunc's DAC significantly outperforms the built-in one on the Majik then it'll perform the same trick when the DS is streaming ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:13
... She knows all to well Im a geek, she has witnessed me modifying cameras lenses to fit on cameras they arnt suposed to and then writing up about them in blogs, I even make her spell check them :)

leo
29-11-2009, 23:14
Did Duncan design the actual dac board or was it one of those similar to whats seen on ebay but with his own tube stage added on the output?

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:15
As far as I know, he designed the whole thing from scratch, Leo, (case included) starting with a pencil and a piece of paper, and then buying in and assembling the relevant components :)

Everything is also hard-wired, where possible.

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:16
Hehe... It's called the 'AoS effect'! You'll get used to it in time :lolsign:



Does the Majik play CDs, too? If so, you could simply compare the results with it as a CD player... If Dunc's DAC significantly outperforms the built-in one on the Majik then it'll perform the same trick when the DS is streaming ;)

Marco.

nope unfortunatly not, il sort it so It will work with my little laptop and put a small selection of music on that, that would save a lot of fuss!

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:18
As far as I know, he designed the whole thing from scratch, Leo, (case included) starting with a pencil and a piece of paper, and then buying in the relevant components :)

Everything is also hard-wired, where possible.

Marco.

There is some bloody clever people about these parts eh! Are you able to discus what he charges for such things? Does he have a web site, or can you link me to some apropriate threads? I have aske about these dacs before but my question got missed

leo
29-11-2009, 23:20
BTW Marco, a tube stage could be tried with your Sony dac, just need to disconnect the onboard active I/V and output stage, use something like a simple passive I/V stage for converting the current to voltage and then feeding it to a valve stage

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:23
What's your take on the lapizator Leo?

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:27
There is some bloody clever people about these parts eh! Are you able to discus what he charges for such things? Does he have a web site, or can you link me to some apropriate threads? I have aske about these dacs before but my question got missed

Here ya go, mucker (the copper version is exactly what I've been listening to recently - both designs internally are identical, though):

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4148

You have to bear in mind that he's only doing this as a hobby. Goodness knows what his stuff would be like if he became 'really serious' and did it for a living! {Insert 'the mind boggles' smiley here} :eek:

Marco.

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:29
BTW Marco, a tube stage could be tried with your Sony dac, just need to disconnect the onboard active I/V and output stage, use something like a simple passive I/V stage for converting the current to voltage and then feeding it to a valve stage

Thanks, Leo. I'll run that one past Dunc :)

Marco.

leo
29-11-2009, 23:29
As far as I know, he designed the whole thing from scratch, Leo, (case included) starting with a pencil and a piece of paper, and then buying in and assembling the relevant components :)

Everything is also hard-wired, where possible.

Marco.


Shame there wasn't more details or at least a few pics of the innards, I find dacs as interesting as what others do valves:lolsign:

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:31
LOL... I guess that he doesn't want to give away his secrets ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:37
That's the thread where my queery was overlooked, and I wasn't the only person to ask to the same end with the same result... I guess he only grows for people he knows!
I suspect even if I did want one I mat have used up my hifi luck quota when Anthony decided to build me a preamplifier! :)

leo
29-11-2009, 23:41
What's your take on the lapizator Leo?

Depends, seems he's tried a range of circuits with a range of different dacs so all would add varying signatures

I can assure a valve output stage will not suit everyones taste and certainly not all dacs, its something you have to hear your self tbh, better still something you have to fiddle with yourself if you can

Marco
29-11-2009, 23:41
That's the thread where my queery was overlooked, and I wasn't the only person to ask to the same end with the same result... I guess he only grows for people he knows!


Nah, you just have to talk to him nicely and make him feel that you deserve one! ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
29-11-2009, 23:45
Depends, seems he's tried a range of circuits with a range of different dacs so all would add varying signatures

I can assure a valve output stage will not suit everyones taste and certainly not all dacs, its something you have to hear your self tbh, better still something you have to fiddle with yourself if you can

Have you ever tried anything along his lines?

leo
29-11-2009, 23:53
Have you ever tried anything along his lines?

Yes, several times:lol: with a few modern voltage output dacs and classic current output dacs like TDA1541 and TDA1543

I'm at a stage now where I personally prefer either discrete or even a decent op-amp type (depending on implementation ), just personal opinion of course.
If a dac is only average you have a far better chance of getting a better sound with valves

alb
29-11-2009, 23:54
The purpose of the Lampizator is to replace the solid state output stage of a CD player with an equivalent tube version.This is not the same as merely sticking a tube buffer between CD and amp.

The proprietor of the Lampizator website is of the opinion that most CD players suffer from a compromised output stage, which holds back the performance of the player in question.
The alledged result is that players with a poorly designed output stage,(not just the cheapest ones), can be improved so much that they can compete with the best.


Infortunately, the only way to find out if your CD player has a weak output stage, is to carry out the mod.
This means soldering a couple of wires to suitable points in the circuit, and tapping into the DAC output. In some cases it also means cutting PCB tracks or lifting components, in order to isolate the existing output stage. A circuit diagram is somewhat helpful.

With regard to the best designed CD players, you might only benefit if you happen to prefer the sound of the tube stage. Who knows?
The only way to prove any of this, is by doing it. The Lampizator circuits are cheap enough to try out, and they will work if they are built correctly.

If your CD player has a "well thought of" DAC fitted, then it may be worth trying this mod out.

If you have a player with a "not so well thought of" DAC, then I think it makes sense to get a decent external DAC instead and maybe Lampizate that.

If you have a player with no digital out sockets then the Lampizator might be your best chance of improving it.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:02
im beginig to think that my original susption that lampizating something is best for lower end kit is correct?!

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:03
i would be interested what stan makes of all this!

leo
30-11-2009, 00:12
im beginig to think that my original susption that lampizating something is best for lower end kit is correct?!

Its hard to explain mate, you get such varying results, a classic op-amp I/V stage used with a current output dac would sound a lot different to using passive I/V + valve output stage

I have a good idea what Stan would make of it:lol:

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:17
Its hard to explain mate, you get such varying results, a classic op-amp I/V stage used with a current output dac would sound a lot different to using passive I/V + valve output stage

I have a good idea what Stan would make of it:lol:


yeah, and me, it is interesting to get variety of informed perspective on these things when, like me, you have no bloody clue about this sort of thing though!
am just about to start another thread that i think you might be able to help with leo....

Marco
30-11-2009, 00:18
im beginig to think that my original susption that lampizating something is best for lower end kit is correct?!

Not at all, Hamish. It's not a straighforward 'yes or no' answer, as Leo correctly points out.

Oh, and Stan will of course be naturally biased towards his particular philosophy, which is why Leo is laughing! ;)

Marco.

P.S Good info there, Al (and from someone else who knows what he's talking about).

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:19
Not at all, Hamish. It's not a straighforward 'yes or no' answer, as Leo correctly points out.

Oh, and Stan will of course be naturally biased towards his particular philosophy (which is why Leo is laughing)! ;)

Marco.

hense my underlineing of the word best

leo
30-11-2009, 00:26
Marco should get interesting results with that TDA1541 based Sony

An I/V stage has a big influence on the TDA's performance, if your Sony uses classic op-amp I/V implementation you have a way to go before you get the best out of that unit;)
A few more options, passive and discrete active I/V:eyebrows:

Most modern dacs have I/V built into the chip so you get less to play with, thats not to say their all crap (some voltage out types sound great), just you get more options with a current output dac which can give you more headaches

alb
30-11-2009, 00:35
im beginig to think that my original susption that lampizating something is best for lower end kit is correct?!

The end result will probably be more impressive with cheaper kit. Beyond that, i couldn't really say. Is there any mention of Linn players being modified on the Lampizator website? I've never noticed.

I suspect Leo has the ability to get the best from an existing ss output stage by means of modifying it. Also, not everyone likes the sound of tubes
I don't have this knowledge, so for me it's easier to connect a valve stage and get results this way.
This is likely the reason why we have different opinions on the matter..:)

Rare Bird
30-11-2009, 00:40
Lampizator the Robin Hood of audio.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:46
The end result will probably be more impressive with cheaper kit. Beyond that, i couldn't really say. Is there any mention of Linn players being modified on the Lampizator website? I've never noticed.

I suspect Leo has the ability to get the best from an existing ss output stage by means of modifying it. Also, not everyone likes the sound of tubes
I don't have this knowledge, so for me it's easier to connect a valve stage and get results this way.
This is likely the reason why we have different opinions on the matter..:)

There doesn't seem to be any mention of linn on there.. I guess most linn users are more snobby than me and would make the assumtion that linn would have done the best things to the unit...
I doubt robin hood would have had a linn hifi :)

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 00:48
Leo,in your experience would you have thought there would be anything worth doing to modify the majik for positive result?

alb
30-11-2009, 00:48
Lampizator the Robin Hood of audio.

If you mean that he's on the side of Joe Public, then....


YES

alb
30-11-2009, 00:57
I guess most linn users are more snobby than me and would make the assumtion that linn would have done the best things to the unit...

One would hope that Linn did make an effort. I used to have a Linn Genki which was nicely built, but sadly i sold it before the Lampizator thing started off.

Marco
30-11-2009, 01:05
Returning to the Lampizator site for a minute, I was intrigued by what the designer wrote here about the TDA1541:

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html

Especially when he asks the question: "WHY TDA1541A DAC ?"

Hamish, you may be able to relate to the camera analogies he makes ;)

What he writes is basically in-line with what I've discovered through extensive listening over many years... This is one of the reasons why I'm loathe to let the Sony go; that and the fact I'm unlikely to find another one easily should I later regret selling it!

What's clear to my ears, after prolonged listening to the DAS-R1 and Dunc's Copper DAC (which I think uses CS4397 chips), is that Dunc's DAC possesses (slightly) superior overall clarity and more of an 'out of the box' sound (that 'air and space' thing at the top-end that IME valves give over transistors, which can often sound 'flat' and two-dimensional in comparison).

Experience suggests that what Dunc's DAC brings to the party is mainly to do with the 'valve effect'; something which I can instantly pinpoint and have heard time and time again with various types of equipment, and less with the intrinsic sonic signature of the design and/or chips used. To my ears this 'valve effect' is about superior perceived dynamic range, which subjectively imbues music with greater headroom and resolution, giving voices and instruments 'air and space' and a dynamic freedom of expression that transistors lack.

However, what the Sony possesses is an 'analogue quality' and subtlety which is as musically satisfying as when one compares a good turntable to an equally good CD player - the former, with the right material, often sounds beguiling in a way which escapes the latter, but this has nothing to do with artificial warmth, 'romance' or any other forum of added euphonic coloration; it simply sounds more 'right' in a 'human' sense.

Bass is also a particular strong point with the Sony (and the TDA1541), which is rich and weighty, but without being bloated or overblown. Dunc's DAC is a little lighter and has marginally less impact in that respect, but it is also 'harder' and faster. I suspect that this aspect of the presentation is mainly due to the sonic signature of the respective DAC chips. Each, however, has its own addictive appeal, and preference for either will largely depend on the existing sonic signature of one's system.

What I'm attempting to do is marry the best of both worlds and add the 'valve effect', which I perceive is present in Duncan's copper DAC, to the highly addictive 'analogue nature' of the Sony... I'm a perfectionist by nature and will always go the extra mile to get the best possible sound ;)

Whether I achieve that of course remains to be seen, but it'll certainly be fun finding out! My adventures with this project will be reported in a separate thread in due course, so as they say, stay tuned!

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-11-2009, 01:34
Hamish, you may be able to relate to the camera analogies he makes ;)


Marco.

yes,i think i get what he means.. although he has missed the point that the sensor in a dslr is significantly bigger and as such does in fact produce a much better image quality. the shittest digital slr is always going to be better than even the best small sensor compact.
if i have understood corectly it would be better to say a 14mp sony a350 isnt going to be as good as a 12mp d300 they both have th same size sensor but the sony doesnt have the procesing power to create a better image! although this is in itself flawed as more mega pixels doesnt actually make a better image, it just makes a bigger image! ... i think i have just confused my self more now to be fair:doh:

Rare Bird
30-11-2009, 03:33
If you mean that he's on the side of Joe Public, then....


YES

Yep..

Themis
30-11-2009, 06:53
I really don't like the sound of NOS (most TDA1514) dacs... :(

I guess it's a matter of taste. ;)

leo
30-11-2009, 09:16
Leo,in your experience would you have thought there would be anything worth doing to modify the majik for positive result?

I don't know the innards of that particular unit, never been inside one of those so its hard to say without seeing the service manual showing the schematics.
Any close up pics of the guts anywhere?

Marco
30-11-2009, 09:19
I really don't like the sound of NOS (most TDA1514) dacs...

I guess it's a matter of taste.


Did you mean 1541? :eyebrows:

I'd suggest that's probably because you've not heard a good design which implements the chip properly, Dimitri - especially a TDA1541-based DAC that's been judiciously modified with the best modern components, thus realising the full potential of the chip. This is what Audiocom specialise in.

I've heard plenty of shit CDPs and DACs with TDA1541s (it's by no means a 'magic bullet'), so I know exactly what you're getting at, but that doesn't mean they're all like that, just like tube preamps don't all sound 'soft & cuddly' either ;)

It's all about implementation, mon ami :)

Marco.

leo
30-11-2009, 09:22
Those CS4397 and CS4398 based boards often found cheap on ebay go pretty well with valve output stages, the Lampy guy liked them
Theres the cheapest boards needing external supplies for the dac and also boards with everything crammed on the same board

Cheap to try for those fancying a bash, all you have to do is remove the onboard op-amp circuit and build a p2p valve stage:)

leo
30-11-2009, 09:23
A well designed TDA1541 will take some beating, the amount of stuff left battered and bruised here after being pitted against this old beastie:lol: