View Full Version : Ken Kessler's latest rant
Has anyone seen kessler's latest column over on soundstage.com? What a load of rubbish.
http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/international/soundstage-uk/992-high-end-hi-fi-s-glimmer-of-hope
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 13:44
What a complete Republican arsehole!
At first I thought it was an April 1st spoof, but the the date was all wrong...:mental: .
Seems to miss the point entirely, in that most millionaires are much more interested in Ferraris and watches than bling hifi, because the aint interested in something they cannot show off easily. They dont want to drive down the street in their Roller do they? You bet they do
narabdela
11-08-2016, 14:28
Kessler lost the plot years ago.
What a complete Republican arsehole!
That's a bit severe Jez. You may not like Kessler, but he makes a valid point.
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 14:33
Indeed Grant. Super hi end hi fi is something I've no time for anyway personally as it just becomes a "bling off" (rather than bake off;)). EG does winding output transformers with pure silver wire make any difference? NO. But it does add hundreds to the production costs and possibly thousands to retail price just so someone can say "There's 1/2 a mile of silver wire in my amp". I can't see why any amplifier should cost more than about £10,000 or any speaker cost maybe double that. The cost of materials and labour just doesn't justify it.
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 14:40
That's a bit severe Jez. You may not like Kessler, but he makes a valid point.
Not in my opinion. I find people who glorify wealth and power, and worse still look down on those who don't have it, to be completely abhorrent. I am well inside the list of people who he at least warns at the beginning of the article will likely be offended. I'm a proud socialist and find it below contempt that a rich person will go and buy another Ferrari in the full knowledge that there are malnourished kids and people losing sleep over the threat of eviction for non payment of rent or mortgage just a few streets away... But I guess we can blame the human condition...
The Black Adder
11-08-2016, 14:49
What a W@nker.
Shallow, deluded olde man. But then I knew that already.
I've never met a wealthy person who looked down on poor people. The exisitence of such people, is, I suspect, a complete myth. I have met a few whose charitable contributions in a year were more than I will donate in income tax in a lifetime.
On the other hand I sort of agree with Jez, how do they justify that second Ferarri? It is a hard circle to square.
People, even very wealthy people, tend to be complex and are unlikely to have a full grasp of their own motivations for doing things, any more than the rest of us do.
For the record I quite like Kessler, he's a good writer, always has been. And I don't go along at all with this chip-on-the-shoulder lets make all the rich bastards poor so they can suffer along with the rest of us. I'm glad I live in a world of £300 thousand pound cars and ten million pound houses even if I will never have one. I prefer that to a Soviet Russia where everyone gets the same crappy Trabant so there is no 'envy'.
With regards to this article all he seems to be saying is: if you are selling hi-end high price hi-fi, do it professionally, the way the watch and car people do it, and guess what? You will sell more.
Duh.
Also I doubt very much that he is a Republican.
Not in my opinion. I find people who glorify wealth and power, and worse still look down on those who don't have it, to be completely abhorrent. I am well inside the list of people who he at least warns at the beginning of the article will likely be offended. I'm a proud socialist and find it below contempt that a rich person will go and buy another Ferrari in the full knowledge that there are malnourished kids and people losing sleep over the threat of eviction for non payment of rent or mortgage just a few streets away... But I guess we can blame the human condition...
The point of his essay, is that the uber-rich are more likely to spend their money on performance cars, bespoke tailored suits and shoes, watches, jewellery etc., rather than spend it on audio gear and he finds this to be strange.
As a possibly unrelated parallel, do the uber-rich go out and buy Hasselblad, Leica or Alpa cameras?
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 15:26
The point of his essay, is that the uber-rich are more likely to spend their money on performance cars, bespoke tailored suits and shoes, watches, jewellery etc., rather than spend it on audio gear and he finds this to be strange.
As a possibly unrelated parallel, do the uber-rich go out and buy Hasselblad, Leica or Alpa cameras?
As you hint it could well be down to nothing more than hi fi and photography being fairly niche pastimes and are therefore no more popular amongst the super rich than amongst normal people. I know it is very rare indeed for me to find that the stranger I've just engaged in conversation just happens to share my interest in hi fi! Maybe twice in my life has this happened....
I have known plenty of people who, whilst not super rich, drive a 7 series BMW or whatever and have a £1/2M house and yet almost all of them have shown no interest in high quality sound reproduction and will probably have some sort of "lifestyle" Bose mini thing... They will pay twice the value of the Bose for a posh meal for them and the wife but feel no need to upgrade "the stereo".
Most charitible donations are offset , or were, and often why they are done. I dont especially care about folk being rich, although there maybe should be a limit to it. Huey Long was keen on that idea, with his every mans a king motto. He did do very well with it too, until someone shot him. Great orator,
Anyways wealth does increase inovation etc, but maybe there has to be a compromise as to just how rich, and for that matter powerful some can be.
I take it you've never met a hedge fund manager? :eyebrows:
I've never met a wealthy person who looked down on poor people.
Years ago when I started designing Mac Mansions for Wealthy clients I quickly realised that;
just like media dogma claims.. 5% of the Population accounts for 95 % of economic activity (read Spending)
From direct experiences..there are 3 to 4X ! as many makers /suppliers of Hi End construction goods / materials as there are for standard /mundane ones.
Ever seen a $20,000 cast bronze Kitchen sink? A 150,000$ granite Fireplace wall in modernistic (minimal) style, Or a 100,000$ artiste:eyebrows: painted "ivy'' frieze ?
Fairly common /de rigueur stuff in bespoke social climber palaces.
All these uber expensive goods/services exist because there is strong continuing demand... and.. their Margins are V high.
Possibly that is what the piece is stumbling to illustrate ?
Hi Zoot (real or wannabee) makers, if clever, could/should focus on mining the wealthy and disregard the proletariat cuz they don't have sufficient $$ or spending habits to warrant their attentions.
Moderne Times Or likely more accurately: a reversion to previous times :lol:
I take it you've never met a hedge fund manager? :eyebrows:
No I haven't. Are they bastards then or what?
I have met some desperately unhappy wealthy people, all those who had inherited wealth. Clearly it had screwed up their sense of priorities Self-made men, IME tend to enjoy life and appreciate what they've got and how lucky they have been.
Interesting that Kessler reckons the high end subsidises the rest of the hi-fi market. I'd say that isn't true.
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 16:53
No I haven't. Are they bastards then or what?
I have met some desperately unhappy wealthy people, all those who had inherited wealth. Clearly it had screwed up their sense of priorities Self-made men, IME tend to enjoy life and appreciate what they've got and how lucky they have been.
Interesting that Kessler reckons the high end subsidises the rest of the hi-fi market. I'd say that isn't true.
My experience has been absolutely the 180 degree opposite of that! If they have had to actually work hard to get to be millionaires they have twice as many chips on their shoulders... an attitude of "I did it so if you can't you are a nobody/worthless" much worse than those who inherited it. Some of the few "landed gentry" I've ever met have been fairly normal!
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 16:56
Most charitible donations are offset , or were, and often why they are done. I dont especially care about folk being rich, although there maybe should be a limit to it. Huey Long was keen on that idea, with his every mans a king motto. He did do very well with it too, until someone shot him. Great orator,
Anyways wealth does increase inovation etc, but maybe there has to be a compromise as to just how rich, and for that matter powerful some can be.
I confess I'd never heard of Huey Long but a quick google reveals he was the type we need more of! I fully agree with your last sentence!
My experience has been absolutely the 180 degree opposite of that! If they have had to actually work hard to get to be millionaires they have twice as many chips on their shoulders... an attitude of "I did it so if you can't you are a nobody/worthless" much worse than those who inherited it. Some of the few "landed gentry" I've ever met have been fairly normal!
I,dcagree with that too. Not met many gentry tbh, but ones i have were all nice folk, with feet on ground.
Yes by 'inherited' I mean the children of the self-made. The few proper toffs I have encountered were very normal, well adjusted folk.
Can't speak for all of them, I've only ever spoken to one at at social gatherings. He was pleasant enough to talk to but quite condescending in a clueless sort of way. He did express the opinion that there was something the matter with people who did not have a substantial annual income. The implication was that it was 'their' fault
A lot of them have led very sheltered lives. That isn't their fault. I'd make being poor for at least six months compulsory if it wasn't totally impractical and a bit too authoritarian. If you want to go into politics then 12 months. And you'd be watched so you couldn't scrounge money off your rich mates.
The Black Adder
11-08-2016, 17:28
Can't speak for all of them, I've only ever spoken to one at at social gatherings. He was pleasant enough to talk to but quite condescending in a clueless sort of way. He did express the opinion that there was something the matter with people who did not have a substantial annual income. The implication was that it was 'their' fault
Something wrong there...
I know (as I'm sure plenty of you do also) one or more very well off people. In my case I know one individual that is probably in an even higher circle than Kessler and he wouldn't dream of saying such things. So what gives him the right to open an article in such an awful way. He has obviously written it for the public to read and not just his elevated circle so this brings him in to my books as an egotistical control freak with a passion to look down on everyone.
Nobody dictates to me about what I can or cannot read on a public platform.
There is more to being financially successful, a hell of a lot more. Obviously he's quite insecure.
Something wrong there...
I know (as I'm sure plenty of you do also) one or more very well off people. In my case I know one individual that is probably in an even higher circle than Kessler and he wouldn't dream of saying such things. So what gives him the right to open an article in such an awful way. He has obviously written it for the public to read and not just his elevated circle so this brings him in to my books as an egotistical control freak with a passion to look down on everyone.
Nobody dictates to me about what I can or cannot read on a public platform.
There is more to being financially successful, a hell of a lot more. Obviously he's quite insecure.
Dunno about finances; I'm a disaster area, but I did successfully raise a family of good people, and thats way more important than money to me
Who here if they invented some widget that made them a 100 million in a year would give it all away to the poor? Or would you be out looking at new cars and houses, taking exotic holidays and so on? Sure you will give a chunk of it to good causes but how much? You don't want to leave yourself too short. Keep 20 million? 40? We all like to think we could act like Jesus but when it actually happens we are more like Rupert Murdoch.
na, not me. i dont need that amount of money. 10 mil would be my tops lol. but would be happy with 1 or 2. rest goes on family and good causes
Family comes out of your own end. It isn't the same as giving it to society. The way I see it anyway. Giving free money to people you don't know at all and will never meet is true altruism.
I'd maybe give 20 million away and another ten to friends and family. I've got plans for the rest...
Family comes out of your own end. It isn't the same as giving it to society. The way I see it anyway. Giving free money to people you don't know at all and will never meet is true altruism.
wouldnt give them too much. they need to work etc to hold their self respect, but enough to pay off the house etc. they will get mine after I die anyway which wouldnt be long knowing my luck :lol:
One of the most damning phrases trotted out by the financially privileged is " I have the best of everything" or "I HAVE to have the best of everything". Even if you are obscenely rich (by your own efforts or inherited wealth) what is wrong with having modest tastes and ambitions. Isn't it vulgar to flaunt your wealth? or am I out of touch? I have often wondered what I would do if I won the Lottery. I don't do it so there is no chance of winning!
Maybe in the same way that the vulgar rich seek satisfaction and enrichment from spending more and more on their dreams (perhaps to impress others of the same mind) I get satisfaction from spending as little as possible and helping my children out financially. Both my parents worked very hard just to keep a roof over our heads. we were relatively poor but happy. I suppose it's horses for courses. Perhaps the rich would shrivel up and die at the thought of shopping in Poundland, whereas I would do the same at countless other stores......you know the one's that charge £2.......:D
The Black Adder
11-08-2016, 18:57
Some people with money (like Kessler) lose touch with the real world. Rob...
Yes, I suppose the real world to them IS their world.
Some people with money (like Kessler) lose touch with the real world. Rob...
Kessler has money? Are you sure?
It's all relative. He's not short of a few bob.
The Black Adder
11-08-2016, 19:23
Regardless if he has or he hasn't, his rant would still justify massive insecurity.
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 19:25
He certainly name-drops expensive wines, watches, cars etc with vulgar regularity....
Ah, Kessler ... the Jeremy Clarkson of the hifi world :lol:
Like Clarkson, seems to have built a decent career on being a 'wind up merchant'.
Precisely, and that's the WHOLE point behind why he wrote what he did (controversy sells copy), and so he would be delighted at the reaction here! ;)
That's what Kessler's 'rants' are all about: generating ATTENTION.
Marco.
Look fools - you need these upmarket goods to fill up the holes in your empty lives...;)
I really like Ken and Clarkson. Always have. Promoters of fine goods you can't afford? Sure. But damn fine at it.
Self-made men, IME tend to enjoy life and appreciate what they've got and how lucky they have been.
Indeed, and exactly my experience. However, I guess it depends on which category of "self-made men" you're referring to. If it's millionaires, and such like, then I can relate to where Jez is coming from, but the majority of them I know (and I include myself in that category, at a more modest level), are exactly as you describe :)
Being resentful/jealous of someone else's wealth or good fortune/nice lifestyle/possessions is a dangerous and unhealthy place for your head to be. If someone has earned or inherited such privileges legally and morally, then good luck to them.
No reasonable or well-adjusted person would think otherwise.
Marco.
He certainly name-drops expensive wines, watches, cars etc with vulgar regularity....
Anybody can do that:
Expensive wines? How about Chateu Petrus, Margeau, d'Yquem, ....
Watches? Rolex, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron, Patek Phillipe, ....
Cars? Masseratti, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Shelby Cobra, Porsche, ....
Cameras and lenses? Leica, Contax, Alpa, Hasselblad, Rollei, Zeiss, Schact, Steinheil, Schneider-Kreuznach, ....
Kessler also writes about cars and watches as well as about hi-fi; in fact he earns more from writing about watches than he does writing about hi-fi (or so I've heard). He does indulge in hiring and track driving performance cars.
Not sure about the vino; from what I've read, he just name-drops to make a point, and hopes no-one actually knows about the wine he is casually mentioning. He certainly does have a way with words - is passionate, articulate, and even amusing. But ultimately, and sadly, I long stopped reading his reviews as they were gushing and inevitably OTT in their writing.
The Black Adder
11-08-2016, 19:52
I wouldn't want it (even if I could afford it) if any of 'them' promoted it.
Arkless Electronics
11-08-2016, 20:09
Anybody can do that:
Expensive wines? How about Chateu Petrus, Margeau, d'Yquem, ....
Watches? Rolex, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron, Patek Phillipe, ....
Cars? Masseratti, Ferrari, Shelby Cobra, Porsche, ....
Kessler writes about cars and watches as well as about hi-fi; in fact he earns more from writing about watches than he does writing about hi-fi (or so I've heard). He does indulge in hiring and track driving performance cars.
Not sure about the vino; from what I've read, he just name-drops to make a point, and hopes no-one actually knows about the wine he is casually mentioning. He certainly does have a way with words - is passionate, articulate, and even amusing. But ultimately, and sadly, I long stopped reading his reviews as they were gushing and inevitably OTT in their writing.
Yes I just googled him and found he writes about luxury goods in general as well as specialising in hi fi journalism... So he may well be personally familiar with these items even he can't afford them.... or maybe he can!?
I guess that one of the aspects of money in large quantities that really does piss me off is the way that once you have more than a certain (large!) amount it becomes so easy to make gazzilions more for doing very little. We must all of read of millionaires becoming twice as rich in weeks/over night just by investing a few millions in the right stocks and shares or whatever... or in property that then quadruples in price in a year. Even then they will usually have minions doing all the awkward paper work/foot work for them and all they've had to do was know the right people to get the best tips and then pick up the phone to their minions and tell them to "make it so".... so when I hear of some city type making more over night than I will make in a lifetime, just by yelling "buy" into the phone, then no I don't think "well done mate, you've worked for that and earned it. Good on ya" no!
The city types shouting 'buy' into the 'phone are all being replaced by computer algorithms. Everyone has their day in the sun.
I guess that one of the aspects of money in large quantities that really does piss me off is the way that once you have more than a certain (large!) amount it becomes so easy to make gazzilions more for doing very little. We must all of read of millionaires becoming twice as rich in weeks/over night just by investing a few millions in the right stocks and shares or whatever... or in property that then quadruples in price in a year. Even then they will usually have minions doing all the awkward paper work/foot work for them and all they've had to do was know the right people to get the best tips and then pick up the phone to their minions and tell them to "make it so".... so when I hear of some city type making more over night than I will make in a lifetime, just by yelling "buy" into the phone, then no I don't think "well done mate, you've worked for that and earned it. Good on ya" no!
I understand where you're coming from, Jez, but why let it bother you? As long as they're not 'harming' anyone, as such, who cares? Let them get on with it. Bitterness never makes anyone happy.
Just be contented with what you've got, mate, as there's always others far worse off than you! :)
Marco.
Not sure about the vino; from what I've read, he just name-drops to make a point, and hopes no-one actually knows about the wine he is casually mentioning...
My understanding is that he has a penchant for the best of all things Italian, and when it comes to wines, and his favourite, Sassicaia, I can confirm that it's up there with the very best... ;)
Not sure if it's him buying it or not, though!
Marco.
Seems to miss the point entirely, in that most millionaires are much more interested in Ferraris and watches than bling hifi, because the aint interested in something they cannot show off easily. They dont want to drive down the street in their Roller do they? You bet they do
But that IS the point. Most millionaires are only interested in Ferraris and watches because they don't know that high end audio exists, and the reason they don't know is because no-one's telling them. There's some pretty impressive looking gear out there, more than good enough to impress the punters, so it's not a question of not being able to show it off. A couple of, shall we say, Wavac SH833s in the front room, or more to the point in the guest state-room of a 300' super yacht, would certainly startle the neighbours, but let's face it, half the people on this forum wouldn't know what something like a Wavac is, so how the hell do you expect someone who's just made half a billion out of his latest shady property deal to know things like that even exist? Given the right PR, things like that could sell to those guys by the shed-load, and Ken's quite right, that would then fund the development of better products for those of us less able to line the manufacturers pockets with enormous profits. I don't see Ken saying anywhere that he approves of these people, only that he's berating the hifi industry for not trying to relieve them of their surplus cash, and I can only agree with him there.
PaulStewart
12-08-2016, 06:01
Sorry folks but as Ken says do the maths. I'm afraid that if you don't agree with what Ken is saying, you simply don't understand how marketing works. The lack of professionalism in the UK HiFi industry is why we have ended up with a load of kitchen table manufacturers, scratching a living and in many cases failing to even do that. Ken is 100% right in his analysis, you can build the best mousetrap in the world, but if you don't market it at a price that you can make a profit on and to the people who can afford that price, then you need to give up and get a job stacking shelves in Lidl. The trouble with people is that they think what they want to be true is true, wake up and smell the coffee.
PaulStewart
12-08-2016, 06:02
But that IS the point. Most millionaires are only interested in Ferraris and watches because they don't know that high end audio exists, and the reason they don't know is because no-one's telling them. There's some pretty impressive looking gear out there, more than good enough to impress the punters, so it's not a question of not being able to show it off. A couple of, shall we say, Wavac SH833s in the front room, or more to the point in the guest state-room of a 300' super yacht, would certainly startle the neighbours, but let's face it, half the people on this forum wouldn't know what something like a Wavac is, so how the hell do you expect someone who's just made half a billion out of his latest shady property deal to know things like that even exist? Given the right PR, things like that could sell to those guys by the shed-load, and Ken's quite right, that would then fund the development of better products for those of us less able to line the manufacturers pockets with enormous profits. I don't see Ken saying anywhere that he approves of these people, only that he's berating the hifi industry for not trying to relieve them of their surplus cash, and I can only agree with him there.
+1
Rothchild
12-08-2016, 07:28
The city types shouting 'buy' into the 'phone are all being replaced by computer algorithms. Everyone has their day in the sun.
Yup, not long until 'the city' is a computer, a dog and a man. The computer runs the market, the dog guards the computer and the man feeds the dog.
My understanding is that he has a penchant for the best of all things Italian, and when it comes to wines, and his favourite, Sassicaia, I can confirm that it's up there with the very best... ;)
Not sure if it's him buying it or not, though!
Marco.
At over £100 a bottle, it's not me either! :lol:
jandl100
12-08-2016, 07:53
Has anyone seen kessler's latest column over on soundstage.com? What a load of rubbish.
http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/international/soundstage-uk/992-high-end-hi-fi-s-glimmer-of-hope
:lol: Loved it!
And I suspect he is very near the mark indeed.
Oh, ignore the deliberately controversial social commentary, the business sense behind it is spot on, I think.
At over £100 a bottle, it's not me either! :lol:
Fortunately I sampled it in Italy, direct from a vineyard of a family friend, along with another renowned 'Super-Tuscan', called Tignanello, which arguably is even better. Both, however, were stunning...
You need to sample a 'Super-Tuscan', Barry, before you depart this earth, as for me, they kick the best of Bordeaux into the weeds! Antinori is the best producer. Check this out, and get ready to flex your Gold Amex (scroll down and read about the producer): http://www.bbr.com/products-37249-2013-tignanello-antinori-tuscany
Not too bad for a case of 6! ;)
Marco.
Hi Shane,
But that IS the point. Most millionaires are only interested in Ferraris and watches because they don't know that high end audio exists, and the reason they don't know is because no-one's telling them. There's some pretty impressive looking gear out there, more than good enough to impress the punters, so it's not a question of not being able to show it off. A couple of, shall we say, Wavac SH833s in the front room, or more to the point in the guest state-room of a 300' super yacht, would certainly startle the neighbours...
Your point is valid, but I'm not sure that even if some millionaires were introduced to the likes of Wavac, they'd entertain using it, as valve amps would be rather too 'high maintenance' for their needs, and whilst it might look 'impressive' in situ, it's really not flashy enough. Valve amps are mainly for enthusiasts who can handle and enjoy their somewhat 'quirky' nature.
Instincts (and experience) tells me that they'd more likely go for something from B&O (or even Linn, on a slightly different level), as it has lots of 'toys' and looks flashy, plus the B&O badge is renowned and seen as aspirational, and that itself is important to such people.
Given the right PR, things like that could sell to those guys by the shed-load, and Ken's quite right, that would then fund the development of better products for those of us less able to line the manufacturers pockets with enormous profits.
It might happen if it was marketed to them in the right way, but for me, to appeal to most of them, it would have to be sold almost as 'designer jewellery', in the likes of Harrods and other stores for the wealthy, alongside designer watches, expensive cameras and such like, and also advertised in trendy male lifestyle magazines, such as GQ.
To excite the rich, owning an expensive hi-fi system would have to enhance their image, and have a certain cachet and status-symbol appeal, in the way of driving a Ferrari or wearing a Patek Philippe, and so the 'marque', as it were, of any hi-fi system owned, would need to be regarded as similarly aspirational.
As an aside, I've always thought that there was a big market for selling quality hi-fi equipment for yachts... The potential for making a killing there, if done right, is phenomenal.
However, the KEY FACT, as others have already said, is that the vast majority of the general public, including millionaires, simply aren't into 'sound quality'. Even the more sonically discerning amongst them would most likely be happy with something on the level of Bose or B&O, so why would they want to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on high-end hi-fi equipment?
In my view, that's just not going to happen, other than with a tiny minority, who'd simply be enthusiasts like us, only with deeper pockets!
Marco.
The Ken Lessler misspelt original thread title made me smile a lot.
Fantastically unintentionally derogatory:)
The Ken Lessler misspelt original thread title made me smile a lot.
Fantastically unintentionally derogatory:)
At first I thought it was a deliberate 'put down', but then realised it was a typo: 'K' and 'L' are adjacent keys, so I edited the title.
Unfortunately the 'point' that this article is trying to make, valid or not, is lost because it only exists in the latter part and is proceeded by an irrelevant, circulatory and somewhat rambling political rant! I assume, rather than just putting it down to poor journalism, that this is because Mr K needed more words than usual with which to fill his column.
I used to read Ken's reviews but you could predict the findings with absolute certainty. If it had valves in it he would love it - if it was from Italy and used wood and leather (the more the merrier), he would love it - and if it was imported by his mate Ricardo he would pronounce it as the second coming!
100% Analogue
Unfortunately the 'point' that this article is trying to make, valid or not, is lost because it only exists in the latter part and is proceeded by an irrelevant, circulatory and somewhat rambling political rant! I assume, rather than just putting it down to poor journalism, that this is because Mr K needed more words than usual with which to fill his column.
I used to read Ken's reviews but you could predict the findings with absolute certainty. If it had valves in it he would love it - if it was from Italy and used wood and leather (the more the merrier), he would love it - and if it was imported by his mate Ricardo he would pronounce it as the second coming!
100% Analogue
Good summary - spot on!
topoxforddoc
12-08-2016, 10:05
I used to work with KK. I was the saturday boy in Canterbury Hi-Fi between 1979-1981, where KK was the manager. I knew him pretty well and we all had a great time in the shop. He knew a lot about Hi-Fi even then, having heard and been smitten by esoterica such as the Levinson HQD.
Art that time, he lived in a VERY modest terraced house in Canterbury - definitely a small 2 up - 2 down. I went there on a number of occasions, as I lived only a quarter of a mile away. His front room was only about 12x10. His gear was squirrelled away on the shelves and in any corner he could find. I remember hearing his Radford STA15, Dynaco, Quad, Leak and Hafler amps in those days (I subsequently bought his Quad IIs, which served me for almost 25 years until I bought a TRON Voyager SET). He had a TD124 and a Garrard 301 and a set of Radford Tristar T90 speakers sat somewhere up on his shelves - they sounded great.
He talked about fine wine, nice cars and Patek watches back then. Commenting on these topics is nothing new for him. That's just how he is. Personally I got on very well with him. He was great fun. You might not like what he says, but much of it has a ring of truth to it. His "latest run" hits the nail on the head, I'm afraid.
I used to read Ken's reviews but you could predict the findings with absolute certainty. If it had valves in it he would love it - if it was from Italy and used wood and leather (the more the merrier), he would love it - and if it was imported by his mate Ricardo he would pronounce it as the second coming!
All true. But then he loves Apogees. So all is forgiven:D
Yes, they were one of Ricardo's imports so it was inevitable.
100% Analogue
Neil McCauley
12-08-2016, 11:48
I used to work with KK. I was the saturday boy in Canterbury Hi-Fi between 1979-1981, where KK was the manager. I knew him pretty well and we all had a great time in the shop. He knew a lot about Hi-Fi even then, having heard and been smitten by esoterica such as the Levinson HQD.
Art that time, he lived in a VERY modest terraced house in Canterbury - definitely a small 2 up - 2 down. I went there on a number of occasions, as I lived only a quarter of a mile away. His front room was only about 12x10. His gear was squirrelled away on the shelves and in any corner he could find. I remember hearing his Radford STA15, Dynaco, Quad, Leak and Hafler amps in those days (I subsequently bought his Quad IIs, which served me for almost 25 years until I bought a TRON Voyager SET). He had a TD124 and a Garrard 301 and a set of Radford Tristar T90 speakers sat somewhere up on his shelves - they sounded great.
He talked about fine wine, nice cars and Patek watches back then. Commenting on these topics is nothing new for him. That's just how he is. Personally I got on very well with him. He was great fun. You might not like what he says, but much of it has a ring of truth to it. His "latest run" hits the nail on the head, I'm afraid.
I agree with you 100% - based on direct personal experience rather than hearsay. Thank you. HP
Arkless Electronics
12-08-2016, 11:50
Hi Shane,
Your point is valid, but I'm not sure that even if some millionaires were introduced to the likes of Wavac, they'd entertain using it, as valve amps would be rather too 'high maintenance' for their needs, and whilst it might look 'impressive' in situ, it's really not flashy enough. Valve amps are mainly for enthusiasts who can handle and enjoy their somewhat 'quirky' nature.
Instincts (and experience) tells me that they'd more likely go for something from B&O (or even Linn, on a slightly different level), as it has lots of 'toys' and looks flashy, plus the B&O badge is renowned and seen as aspirational, and that itself is important to such people.
It might happen if it was marketed to them in the right way, but for me, to appeal to most of them, it would have to be sold almost as 'designer jewellery', in the likes of Harrods and other stores for the wealthy, alongside designer watches, expensive cameras and such like, and also advertised in trendy male lifestyle magazines, such as GQ.
To excite the rich, owning an expensive hi-fi system would have to enhance their image, and have a certain cachet and status-symbol appeal, in the way of driving a Ferrari or wearing a Patek Philippe, and so the 'marque', as it were, of any hi-fi system owned, would need to be regarded as similarly aspirational.
As an aside, I've always thought that there was a big market for selling quality hi-fi equipment for yachts... The potential for making a killing there, if done right, is phenomenal.
However, the KEY FACT, as others have already said, is that the vast majority of the general public, including millionaires, simply aren't into 'sound quality'. Even the more sonically discerning amongst them would most likely be happy with something on the level of Bose or B&O, so why would they want to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on high-end hi-fi equipment?
In my view, that's just not going to happen, other than with a tiny minority, who'd simply be enthusiasts like us, only with deeper pockets!
Marco.
Indeed this is the fundamental point IMHO (it was I that made it earlier in the thread). It is easy to forget how rare an interest in high quality sound actually is when one frequents sites such as this and seeks out friendship with fellow audiophiles... As I mentioned earlier I guess I have met two people in my lifetime who are interested in hi fi (to the extent of taking it seriously, being an audiophile) when I've met them in everyday life. I reckon, from experience, I've probably met 100 people who play electric guitar in a band and own all the gear for every one audiophile I've met and maybe 20 mountaineers for every audiophile...
I've also noticed that non audiophiles tend to not even pass comment (or indeed even notice!) when you put a wonderful "demonstration quality" recording on the hi fi and turn the wick up a bit, (much less likely still if they are female) but may well ask you to turn it down so they don't have to raise their voice when talking over the top of the music
. We are involved in a vary niche pastime guys;)
I used to work with KK. I was the saturday boy in Canterbury Hi-Fi between 1979-1981, where KK was the manager.
I was postgraduate student at UKC (1973 - 1977), and knew Canterbury Hi-Fi well (and also another shop, whose name escapes me, in Thanington (Without)). Not sure if KK was there, and if he was it wouldn't have meant anything to me - I only knew of him through his later writing in the UK audio press.
Haselsh1
12-08-2016, 12:06
Not in my opinion. I find people who glorify wealth and power, and worse still look down on those who don't have it, to be completely abhorrent. I am well inside the list of people who he at least warns at the beginning of the article will likely be offended. I'm a proud socialist and find it below contempt that a rich person will go and buy another Ferrari in the full knowledge that there are malnourished kids and people losing sleep over the threat of eviction for non payment of rent or mortgage just a few streets away... But I guess we can blame the human condition...
Unbelievably well spoken that man. I couldn't agree more.
The Black Adder
12-08-2016, 12:43
Sorry but to 'warn' people is simply childish. It sounds like what I used to write on my 'top secret' book when I was 11.
I have been in the games industry for over 30 years. Now that is a place for childish ego's and I've NEVER heard of or read anyone's press release, article, bio or whatever beginning with something like that. He wants people to read it but it's a counter productive opening, it alienates people and it shows his 'ace card' in IMAX, 4K high resolution, split screen 3D within the first paragraph. :mental:
That is, it screams of insecurity and self obsession.
I don't know him from adam, I don't need to read his stuff either and yet he comes across to me as a complete arsehole. Maybe I shouldn't take my opinion from one article but this is what people do. Surely he knows that?
End of.
Unbelievably well spoken that man. I couldn't agree more.
+1
Sorry but to 'warn' people is simply childish. It sounds like what I used to write on my 'top secret' book when I was 11.
I have been in the games industry for over 30 years. Now that is a place for childish ego's and I've NEVER heard of or read anyone's press release, article, bio or whatever beginning with something like that. He wants people to read it but it's a counter productive opening, it alienates people and it shows his 'ace card' in IMAX, 4K high resolution, split screen 3D within the first paragraph. :mental:
That is, it screams of insecurity and self obsession.
I don't know him from adam, I don't need to read his stuff either and yet he comes across to me as a complete arsehole. Maybe I shouldn't take my opinion from one article but this is what people do. Surely he knows that?
End of.
Quite right Jo..
We are involved in a vary niche pastime guys;)
Ain't that the truth!
Marco.
Yes, they were one of Ricardo's imports so it was inevitable.
100% Analogue
No longer, thank Christ. A pair would cost you a gazillion if they still were.
topoxforddoc
12-08-2016, 16:51
My understanding is that he has a penchant for the best of all things Italian, and when it comes to wines, and his favourite, Sassicaia, I can confirm that it's up there with the very best... ;)
Not sure if it's him buying it or not, though!
Marco.
Back then in the late 70s, when no-one had heard of Super Tuscan wines. One of the first UK importers for Sassicaia was a friend of ours in Whitstable only about 7 miles form Canterbury. Giovanni imported this and sold some in his eponymous restaurant in Whitstable, when this town was a dowdy run down seaside town. It was not expensive then, and I would expect that KK would have eaten and drunk Sassicaia there, as it was one of the best Italian restaurants in Kent at that time.
If you like it when it's undiscovered and cheaper, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to like it, when it becomes fashionable and sadly more expensive.
Anyway, it's very nice - Tignanello too. Funny how the Italians would not give it DOC or DOCG status, but only Vino da Tavola, as it mixed grapes such as Cabernet Sauvignon into the Sangiovese.
Starterman
12-08-2016, 17:15
Unfortunately the 'point' that this article is trying to make, valid or not, is lost because it only exists in the latter part and is proceeded by an irrelevant, circulatory and somewhat rambling political rant! I assume, rather than just putting it down to poor journalism, that this is because Mr K needed more words than usual with which to fill his column.
100% Analogue
Yes that was my thought. Most people would just have said "Most hi end hifi is marketed by amateurs". It does take some sort of talent to turn that into 1000 words, or whatever his target was.
And we could just summarise Hamlet as 'Some bloke goes a bit nuts(probably), kills a few people and gets taken off to be executed' and disband the RSC.
Except Mr K was more padding out his point, with his political posturing, than summarising it.
Hi Charlie,
That's most interesting, so thanks for sharing that info :)
Back then in the late 70s, when no-one had heard of Super Tuscan wines. One of the first UK importers for Sassicaia was a friend of ours in Whitstable only about 7 miles form Canterbury. Giovanni imported this and sold some in his eponymous restaurant in Whitstable, when this town was a dowdy run down seaside town. It was not expensive then, and I would expect that KK would have eaten and drunk Sassicaia there, as it was one of the best Italian restaurants in Kent at that time.
Yup, I know exactly what you mean, and my original exposure to Sassicaia was similar. I encountered it in the early 80s, as my uncle in Tuscany, who lived in a little village just outside of Lucca, was friendly with one of the producers who lived not far away, and he would go there and buy barrels of the stuff to decent into carafes, for his use back home.
It was a beautiful (full-bodied) red wine, but certainly then not considered in any way as 'fancy', indeed the notion of such, and the prices charged for it now, would've amused the locals no end! ;)
However, that's the way things have gone now, with the coining of the term 'Super-Tuscan' and the crazy prices charged for it, but then one can also pay £150 and upwards for a bottle of DOCG Chianti Riserva Superiore, which of course is a million miles away from the basic types you can obtain here in supermarkets for £10 or so, but which one can also pick up direct from a vineyard (if one has the appropriate connections) for a fraction of that price...
In many parts of Tuscany, if you know where to go in some local Trattorias, you can drink exceptionally good wine, sold loose in carafes, which is made from the same grape varieties as the likes of Sassicaia and Tignanello, but without their price tags, indeed often it is sold cheap as chips, or rather go into a posh Ristorante in Milano and pay top dollar for virtually the same thing, simply because it's in a nice bottle with a fancy label!
However, it has to be said, the 'Super-Tuscans', such as we've discussed, along with Solaia, and established classics, such as Brunello di Montalcino and Amarone, really are utterly superb, in a 'big-boned', blow-your-socks-off' kind of way, which quite frankly, for sheer depth of flavour and 'oomph factor' can embarrass some of the most renowned French wines.
Trouble is, few people, perhaps Amarone aside, have heard of them, and indeed are only available to buy through specialist wine merchants, and therefore are well off of the mainstream wine buying map.
If you like it when it's undiscovered and cheaper, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to like it, when it becomes fashionable and sadly more expensive.
Absolutely. I see KK as a 'bon vivant', similar to myself, in terms of his love of the finer things in life, but who was fortunate to be around, and at the right age, in the golden eras, not only for wine production and cuisine (if you knew where to go and had a few bob), but also for hi-fi.
He's definitely a 'love him or loathe him' type, and I can fully understand why he winds folks up, but he's got a PERSONALITY, and that mixed with a colourful and entertaining style of prose, makes his articles worth reading, even if you disagree with every word! The last thing he wants is for folks reading his articles to think 'meh' - he wants to PROVOKE a reaction, positive or negative, but most of all to get people talking!
For me, I'd far rather have that than reams of bland, soulless prose, penned by a technical geek with about as much personality as a cardboard donkey!
Anyway, it's very nice - Tignanello too. Funny how the Italians would not give it DOC or DOCG status, but only Vino da Tavola, as it mixed grapes such as Cabernet Sauvignon into the Sangiovese.
I know, but you wouldn't believe just how strict such classifications are, based on rather stuffy age-old traditions. It's very much the same with similar classifications (appellations) for French wine, especially Champagne, but then the French love that type of quality control.
Jeez, even one of my favourite butters, Beurre D'Isigny, has an appellation d'origine protégée! :eyebrows:
Marco.
cyclopse
12-08-2016, 19:01
Wasn't there a time when KK and Hi Fi News parted company? Obviously he was reinstated within a short time. Hi Fi News has seen a drop in readership numbers in the last 12 months. So this equals reduced exposure to attract the super rich. Is there much money in writing about Hi Fi?
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 19:35
I used to work with KK. I was the saturday boy in Canterbury Hi-Fi between 1979-1981, where KK was the manager. I knew him pretty well and we all had a great time in the shop. He knew a lot about Hi-Fi even then, having heard and been smitten by esoterica such as the Levinson HQD.
Art that time, he lived in a VERY modest terraced house in Canterbury - definitely a small 2 up - 2 down. I went there on a number of occasions, as I lived only a quarter of a mile away. His front room was only about 12x10. His gear was squirrelled away on the shelves and in any corner he could find. I remember hearing his Radford STA15, Dynaco, Quad, Leak and Hafler amps in those days (I subsequently bought his Quad IIs, which served me for almost 25 years until I bought a TRON Voyager SET). He had a TD124 and a Garrard 301 and a set of Radford Tristar T90 speakers sat somewhere up on his shelves - they sounded great.
He talked about fine wine, nice cars and Patek watches back then. Commenting on these topics is nothing new for him. That's just how he is. Personally I got on very well with him. He was great fun. You might not like what he says, but much of it has a ring of truth to it. His "latest run" hits the nail on the head, I'm afraid.
Sounds very like the Ken I met a few times at shows.
I think his article is pretty much spot on, he has written about that topic before in pretty much the same vein, and I agreed with it before.
Used to love reading his reviews but alas Mr Miller edits the life out of any reviews in HiFi News so sadly Ken's prose doesn't get the space it once had to stretch its wings.
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 19:36
Wasn't there a time when KK and Hi Fi News parted company? Obviously he was reinstated within a short time. Hi Fi News has seen a drop in readership numbers in the last 12 months. So this equals reduced exposure to attract the super rich. Is there much money in writing about Hi Fi?
Yes spot on he went to HiFi Choice. Choice is now owned by Paul Miller.
Yes spot on he went to HiFi Choice. Choice is now owned by Paul Miller.
Was there for one edition only then returned to HFN, after a change of editor there.
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 19:54
Was there for one edition only then returned to HFN, after a change of editor there.
Few more than one as I recall, I didn't keep back issues of HiFi Choice when I moved a few years ago, not worth keeping (kept News, Stereophile and The Absolute Sound), so I can't tell you how many, but I think it was maybe up to 4 months, maybe 6. Too long ago, but News was nearly sunk by its rubbish, then no editor before Miller took it over.
Frankly, KK's diatribe seems in rather poor taste bordering on crass.
These days, hi-fi magazines bore the pants off of me; I just no longer 'connect' with them. I'm far more likely to be reading music, home interior or car magazines :)
Marco.
Frankly, KK's diatribe seems in rather poor taste bordering on crass.
If you take it all too seriously ;)
As someone said earlier, he's a bit of a wind-up merchant, so best to hold that thought whenever reading his articles...
Marco.
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 20:06
These days, hi-fi magazines bore the pants off of me; I just no longer 'connect' with them. I'm far more likely to be reading music or car magazines :)
Marco.
I think that's a fair comment. Similar products reviewed, often from the same distributor, company it gets tedious, same again and again etc. Its often possible to predict what items will be reviewed. HiFi + had its faults under Gregory, but at least back then it was interesting, new products, new companies, esoteric stuff no one wrote about in the UK. The only mag that still keeps me interested is Stereophile but even it is sliding into the same predictability.
I still buy News, and + (not always), and Stereophile always and that's it now days.
Dont like mags so dont buy them. If they are in a waiting room I might read them but they are usually car ones, which seems to be a preoccupation with doctors and dentists lol
If you take it all too seriously ;)
As someone said earlier, he's a bit of a wind-up merchant, so best to hold that thought whenever reading his articles...
Marco.
As someone once said about football "it's not life and death - it's far more important than that" ;). To be honest, it's moderately amusing - but I didn't even realise KK was still writing until this.
To me, “mañana” is shorthand for “I’m a lazy bastard who’s more than happy to be bailed out by British and German taxpayers.” It does, however, explain why Greece, Portugal, Spain, (southern) Ireland, and Italy are rapidly slipping into a catastrophe that recalls the Great Depression, with France sure to follow.
Mr know all wanker
I think that's a fair comment. Similar products reviewed, often from the same distributor, company it gets tedious, same again and again etc. Its often possible to predict what items will be reviewed. HiFi + had its faults under Gregory, but at least back then it was interesting, new products, new companies, esoteric stuff no one wrote about in the UK. The only mag that still keeps me interested is Stereophile but even it is sliding into the same predictability.
I still buy News, and + (not always), and Stereophile always and that's it now days.
Absolutely, Neil. However, crucially, it also reflects a change in ME. These days, hi-fi is quite far down in my list of main interests, especially as my system is at the stage, or very near the stage, of being a 'done deal'. There has to be an 'end game' in this hobby, otherwise it's just playing around with kit, for kit's sake, and that's no longer me.
I get far more pleasure these days, driving my car and going on nice holidays with Del, and seeing more of the world around me, although my love music still remains. In that respect, the thrill of waiting for delivery of some sexy new vinyl far outweighs the thought of attempting to 'improve' my system, far less reading a hi-fi mag! :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 21:22
Mr know all wanker
Ummmmm not a nice comment at all.
maybe just a little pretentious then ?
To whom do you refer?
Mr know all wanker
Spectral Morn
12-08-2016, 21:27
To whom do you refer?
I think its aimed at Ken, not a member of AoS but still there is no need for that kind of language aimed at anyone.
maybe just a little pretentious then ?
Only on Sunday ;)
Marco.
Neil McCauley
13-08-2016, 11:17
Wasn't there a time when KK and Hi Fi News parted company? Obviously he was reinstated within a short time. Hi Fi News has seen a drop in readership numbers in the last 12 months. So this equals reduced exposure to attract the super rich. Is there much money in writing about Hi Fi?
It was and possibly remains NUJ historic rates of £125 per 1000 published words.
It was and possibly remains NUJ historic rates of £125 per 1000 published words.
Hell, I've written reviews and articles for on-line fora of that length and more, and done it for the love of it. Looks like I should have been more mercenary. :lol:
I wouldn't get out my bed for less than £200 ;)
Marco.
Neil McCauley
13-08-2016, 17:02
Hell, I've written reviews and articles for on-line fora of that length and more, and done it for the love of it. Looks like I should have been more mercenary. :lol:
Here's the unpalatable (for some) reality. Unpacking the gear, setting up, fine-tuning, listening, evaluating, packing it all up, writing it all about takes as an absolute minimum 8 hours - for £125.
40 years in this business, on an off, knowing as best one can a cross section of reviewers, I am unaware of even a single one who can survive on reviewing alone. Not one. They make a living as a consequence of offering and receiving consultancy commissions and other legitimate activities to supplement their HiFi writings
From a distance it's all too easy, without knowing the facts, to despise reviewers and yes, perhaps some deserve that response and no I'm not suggesting any of us feel sorry for them. After all, they chose this activity.
However, to assume a reviewers life is any easy one is way off the mark. On top of earning from the review, assuming a published 1000 words a mere £125 they sometimes have to endure the aggression from the equipment supplier, the benign contempt (“you can be replaced sonny, just …. like … that”) of the editors and the ill-informed opprobrium of the forum ‘experts’
I remain astonished that anyone, given all that, would chose to accept the task. Anyway, just so’s ya know. Neil.
PS: When the last print-based HiFi magazine has printed its final edition (believe me, they know it’s only a matter of time) who or what will be the replacement scapegoat for all that troubles this industry?
Arkless Electronics
13-08-2016, 17:50
Then there was Ian Rankin who admitted on TV that during his Hi Fi reviewing days he often couldn't be bothered and so would write some purple prose about some kit without even removing it from the box!
RobbieGong
13-08-2016, 18:37
Absolutely, Neil. However, crucially, it also reflects a change in ME. These days, hi-fi is quite far down in my list of main interests, especially as my system is at the stage, or very near the stage, of being a 'done deal'. There has to be an 'end game' in this hobby, otherwise it's just playing around with kit, for kit's sake, and that's no longer me.
I get far more pleasure these days, driving my car and going on nice holidays with Del, and seeing more of the world around me, although my love music still remains. In that respect, the thrill of waiting for delivery of some sexy new vinyl far outweighs the thought of attempting to 'improve' my system, far less reading a hi-fi mag! :)
Marco.
+1 and Absolutely ! The aim has to be getting to that place when you listen to your system and know this is 'it' . Afterwhich, stop the faff, enjoy the music and get on with life.
Here's the unpalatable (for some) reality. Unpacking the gear, setting up, fine-tuning, listening, evaluating, packing it all up, writing it all about takes as an absolute minimum 8 hours - for £125.
However, to assume a reviewers life is any easy one is way off the mark. On top of earning from the review, assuming a published 1000 words a mere £125 they sometimes have to endure the aggression from the equipment supplier, the benign contempt (“you can be replaced sonny, just …. like … that”) of the editors and the ill-informed opprobrium of the forum ‘experts’
?
Or you could do an eight hour shift order picking in a cold storage warehouse for a little more than half that amount.
Advantages: You don't have to suffer the ill-informed opprobrium of the forum ‘experts’
Disadvantages: You]re order picking in a cold storage warehouse.
Then there was Ian Rankin who admitted on TV that during his Hi Fi reviewing days he often couldn't be bothered and so would write some purple prose about some kit without even removing it from the box!
Didn't know Ian Rankin did hi-fi reviewing. We are talking about Ian Rankin the author aren't we?
Arkless Electronics
13-08-2016, 19:13
Didn't know Ian Rankin did hi-fi reviewing. We are talking about Ian Rankin the author aren't we?
Indeed we are. Hifi Answers IIRC
The Flat Response and Hi Fi Review too.
The Flat Response and Hi Fi Review too.
Jeez, those two were awful rags - both had the High Priest of Flat Earthers as editor.
Neil McCauley
13-08-2016, 20:12
Or you could do an eight hour shift order picking in a cold storage warehouse for a little more than half that amount.
Advantages: You don't have to suffer the ill-informed opprobrium of the forum ‘experts’
Disadvantages: You]re order picking in a cold storage warehouse.
Great. Thanks. I'll pass this on to the interested parties. Neil
Then there was Ian Rankin who admitted on TV that during his Hi Fi reviewing days he often couldn't be bothered and so would write some purple prose about some kit without even removing it from the box!
That says a lot about his personal morals ... total contempt for his readers being the least worrying.
Arkless Electronics
14-08-2016, 11:19
Jeez, those two were awful rags - both had the High Priest of Flat Earthers as editor.
I've still got an early copy of The Flat Response.... an "amusing" read to say the least!
Arkless Electronics
14-08-2016, 18:59
Hi Charlie,
That's most interesting, so thanks for sharing that info :)
Yup, I know exactly what you mean, and my original exposure to Sassicaia was similar. I encountered it in the early 80s, as my uncle in Tuscany, who lived in a little village just outside of Lucca, was friendly with one of the producers who lived not far away, and he would go there and buy barrels of the stuff to decent into carafes, for his use back home.
It was a beautiful (full-bodied) red wine, but certainly then not considered in any way as 'fancy', indeed the notion of such, and the prices charged for it now, would've amused the locals no end! ;)
However, that's the way things have gone now, with the coining of the term 'Super-Tuscan' and the crazy prices charged for it, but then one can also pay £150 and upwards for a bottle of DOCG Chianti Riserva Superiore, which of course is a million miles away from the basic types you can obtain here in supermarkets for £10 or so, but which one can also pick up direct from a vineyard (if one has the appropriate connections) for a fraction of that price...
In many parts of Tuscany, if you know where to go in some local Trattorias, you can drink exceptionally good wine, sold loose in carafes, which is made from the same grape varieties as the likes of Sassicaia and Tignanello, but without their price tags, indeed often it is sold cheap as chips, or rather go into a posh Ristorante in Milano and pay top dollar for virtually the same thing, simply because it's in a nice bottle with a fancy label!
However, it has to be said, the 'Super-Tuscans', such as we've discussed, along with Solaia, and established classics, such as Brunello di Montalcino and Amarone, really are utterly superb, in a 'big-boned', blow-your-socks-off' kind of way, which quite frankly, for sheer depth of flavour and 'oomph factor' can embarrass some of the most renowned French wines.
Trouble is, few people, perhaps Amarone aside, have heard of them, and indeed are only available to buy through specialist wine merchants, and therefore are well off of the mainstream wine buying map.
Absolutely. I see KK as a 'bon vivant', similar to myself, in terms of his love of the finer things in life, but who was fortunate to be around, and at the right age, in the golden eras, not only for wine production and cuisine (if you knew where to go and had a few bob), but also for hi-fi.
He's definitely a 'love him or loathe him' type, and I can fully understand why he winds folks up, but he's got a PERSONALITY, and that mixed with a colourful and entertaining style of prose, makes his articles worth reading, even if you disagree with every word! The last thing he wants is for folks reading his articles to think 'meh' - he wants to PROVOKE a reaction, positive or negative, but most of all to get people talking!
For me, I'd far rather have that than reams of bland, soulless prose, penned by a technical geek with about as much personality as a cardboard donkey!
I know, but you wouldn't believe just how strict such classifications are, based on rather stuffy age-old traditions. It's very much the same with similar classifications (appellations) for French wine, especially Champagne, but then the French love that type of quality control.
Jeez, even one of my favourite butters, Beurre D'Isigny, has an appellation d'origine protégée! :eyebrows:
Marco.
It's all down to the terroir at the end of the day... I'm just sampling a very frisky little number here at Chateau Arkless, appellation controlee The Toon. Effervescent, aromatic and with a long finish that ends "worra ye looking at pal" after finishing too many... Ye cannae whack it man! :ner:
Floyddroid
15-08-2016, 11:39
Utter bollocks
Isn't KK one of those ghastly nouveaux riche name-dropping types, poncing about like a tit and encouraging a 'keep up with the Jones' mentality that will lead the weak-minded into blind pursuit of an illusory vision of sonic excellence, ending only in bankruptcy, divorce, alcoholism and an early grave? Am I right, or am I right?
Effervescent, aromatic and with a long finish that ends "worra ye looking at pal" after finishing too many... Ye cannae whack it man! :ner:
Hoots mon - sounds like a rather 'cheeky' little Beaujoliais - a bit like my man's milk before it curdles! :eyebrows::D
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 14:34
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag156/Jez1235/newcastle-brown-ale-500x500_zpsajya0tfa.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Jez1235/media/newcastle-brown-ale-500x500_zpsajya0tfa.jpg.html)
Do you decant it before serving? :D
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 15:12
Do you decant it before serving? :D
Marco.
Whilst it does need to breathe I usually find that by the time the top hits the deck it has caught it's breath :D
The Black Adder
15-08-2016, 15:27
I always decant. Don't unplug without a glug. :)
I've also tried a bottle in one of them ultrasonic 'wine bettering machines' - it's quite good have to say.
I always decant. Don't unplug without a glug. :)
I've also tried a bottle in one of them ultrasonic 'wine bettering machines' - it's quite good have to say.
Not seen those. Got a gizmo that bubbles air into the bottle. Supposed to cut airing time.
The Black Adder
15-08-2016, 15:46
ah.. no this is different. It's not mine, it's a friend of mine who has everything gadget wise. :) lol
It's rather good. I was sceptical with a bottle of Coop's un-finest.
poncing about like a tit ?
He needs working on.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 15:57
He needs working on.
Especially if a perfumed ponce
You could tie him down, and 'work on him'... Leave Jez in charge of the scalpel ;)
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 16:52
"We've come on holiday by mistake"
'His leg's bound up in polythene, God knows why'.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 17:05
"we're not from London!"
Don't attempt anything without the gloves.
The fucker will rue the day!
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 17:12
£2.10 a tit and a fiver for his arse
I don't advise a haircut, man.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 17:17
We're going to install a juke box in here and liven you fuckers up
We want the finest cakes and the finest wines known to humanity, and we want them here, and we want them now.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 17:23
I'm making time!
I'll have you know this suit was made by Gieves and Hawkes.
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 17:31
The finest tailoring you've seen is above your appendix
hope that is the end of it. ;) getting closeto banning myself:eyebrows:
Any Astrophysicist will tell you that when a thread has run its natural course there is a proportional chance that it will spontaneously collapse into Withnail And I.
It's science fact.
hope that is the end of it. ;) getting closeto banning myself:eyebrows:
Would you like to feel the weight of my oversized slipper?
Marco.
Would you like to feel the weight of my oversized slipper?
Marco.
fair enough...
Thought you'd have enjoyed that! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Any Astrophysicist will tell you that when a thread has run its natural course there is a proportional chance that it will spontaneously collapse into Withnail And I.
It's science fact.
'Withnail And I', a film I utterly loath - but I'm in a minority of one!
Arkless Electronics
15-08-2016, 23:02
'Withnail And I', a film I utterly loath - but I'm in a minority of one!
Marco needs to look into a blasphemy clause in the rules:D
PaulStewart
16-08-2016, 00:24
'Withnail And I', a film I utterly loath - but I'm in a minority of one!
No you're not :( But we maybe i a minority of two :lol:
Could be three, because I hadn't heard of it. Looked it up , never watched it, so canny comment on its pishness or otherwise :D
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
16-08-2016, 09:09
It's my favourite film ever by a large margin;)
Surely after 'Confessions of a Window Cleaner'?
Marco.
Well, not everyone can like everything; there's people out there who don't like the Beatles or Shakespeare. Even my family is divided on Withnail and I; elder daughter dislikes it, self, wife and younger daughter love it. It's one of the handful of films I can watch and enjoy more than a couple of times. I've seen it twice at the cinema and many times on VHS/DVD.
Could be three, because I hadn't heard of it. Looked it up , never watched it, so canny comment on its pishness or otherwise :D
Marco.
<Spoiler>There's no gore or violence. Richard E Grant gives a magnificent over-the-top performance as Withnail.
Lol... Probably not my thing, but I guess that I'll have to try and watch in now, to form an opinion, as it's a new one on me. As for Shakespeare, never could see the point of it myself. I mean, who writes or speaks that way these days? ;)
I prefer something more relevant in the 21st century!
Marco.
I'm not sure literature, or any art form, has a point.
Spectral Morn
16-08-2016, 10:14
:offtopic:
And? It's called thread drift. daftee. We're bored with KK now! :)
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
16-08-2016, 10:31
Well, not everyone can like everything; there's people out there who don't like the Beatles or Shakespeare. Even my family is divided on Withnail and I; elder daughter dislikes it, self, wife and younger daughter love it. It's one of the handful of films I can watch and enjoy more than a couple of times. I've seen it twice at the cinema and many times on VHS/DVD.
Same here! I would guess I've seen it maybe 20 times!
I wouldn't recommend the Withnail and I drinking game though:eek:
As for Shakespeare, never could see the point of it myself. I mean, who writes or speaks that way these days? ;)
I prefer something more relevant in the 21st century!
Marco.
If you're not interested in reading poetry or appreciate a nice turn of phrase, then Shakespeare is not for you. But then neither is Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Susan Vega, .....
Or for that matter, The King James Bible or The Book of Common Prayer.
But don't worry, Leo Tolstoy hated Shakespeare!
I appreciate a nice turn of phrase, but in a language that I can relate to ;)
I also enjoy listening to the music of all the artists you mentioned, and 'get' the poetry thing, *but* that's not what attracts me to their music. I just like the 'sound'. I'm a tunes & rhythms guy - never been into lyrics!
Poetry, I can take or leave. I quite enjoy John Cooper Clarke, for example, but nothing too 'heavy', or my eyes start to glaze over...
Marco.
Yes, John Cooper-Clark is a good example. A punk poet - I like 'Chicken Town'. :)
Yup. You should get this - highly recommended: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anthologia-John-Cooper-Clarke/dp/B012RQBLMK/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1471344843&sr=1-3&keywords=john+cooper+clarke
Defo worth having in your collection :cool:
Marco.
PaulStewart
16-08-2016, 11:14
Surely after 'Confessions of a Window Cleaner'?
Marco.
Confessions of a Window Cleaner pales into mere insignificance when compared to the truly great films of the comedy sexploitation genre. I refer of course to films like "Percy" and "Danish Dentist - On The Job" :lol:
PaulStewart
16-08-2016, 11:19
Yes, John Cooper-Clark is a good example. A punk poet - I like 'Chicken Town'. :)
Always liked John, met him a few times back in the day. We have a lot of fun with this one at work
https://youtu.be/spvvAdAN5bA
topoxforddoc
16-08-2016, 11:26
I'm not sure literature, or any art form, has a point.
You could mention that to Wilko Johnson - he is a voracious literary scholar and routinely drops in quotations from Shakespeare and Milton into his conversations. When I asked him what he might do if he ever got better from his "terminal cancer", he said that he might go back to academe and read Anglos-Saxon Poetry :)
When I asked him what he might do if he ever got better from his "terminal cancer", he said that he might go back to academe and read Anglos-Saxon Poetry :)
Lol - shows you how we're all different... I'd rather stick pins in my eyes!
Marco.
Always liked John, met him a few times back in the day. We have a lot of fun with this one at work
https://youtu.be/spvvAdAN5bA
Quality! :D
He's a top bloke.
Marco.
:offtopic:
Dragging it back on topic, I read the KK article whilst stood in W H Smith waiting for a train. I couldn't see what all the hoo-hah was about, really. A few statements of the bleeding obvious, mixed in with a bit of faux controversy, that must have taken him all of ten minutes to cobble together. Nice work if you can get it!
Martyn Miles
17-08-2016, 08:01
Kessler lost the plot years ago.
True.
Along with that he's responsible for elevating the status of the BBC LS3/5a to unseen heights.
Mind you, those who bought a pair of Chartwells for next-to-nothing must be pleased...
Martyn.
Floyddroid
17-08-2016, 09:27
Wilco Johnson? Isn't that the guy out of Game Of Thrones? I bet surviving terminal cancer made him feelgood! Wonder if they will rename the pub they named after him?
You could mention that to Wilko Johnson - he is a voracious literary scholar and routinely drops in quotations from Shakespeare and Milton into his conversations. When I asked him what he might do if he ever got better from his "terminal cancer", he said that he might go back to academe and read Anglos-Saxon Poetry :)
Wilco Johnson? Isn't that the guy out of Game Of Thrones? I bet surviving terminal cancer made him feelgood! Wonder if they will rename the pub they named after him?
This Wilko Johnson: http://wilkojohnson.com/
And yes, it was an amazing story! :)
Marco.
Those who wish to continue the discussion about Shakespeare, etc, can do so here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46210-Shakespeare-poetry-and-other-such-bobbins
Marco.
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