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View Full Version : The amplifier designer hall of fame (part #3) – Mark Levinson, Antony Michaelson, Dr.



Neil McCauley
11-02-2016, 08:23
Yes. But can you expand on this a bit?


Okay. In my direct personal experience many of the finest amplifier designers are first and foremost gifted in their field and are not entrepreneurs through choice. They become entrepreneurs through force of circumstance i.e. there was no other intelligent choice. They're visionaries when it comes to circuit design, component selection, PSU design and so on. But they aren’t axiomatically visionaries when it comes to sales and marketing.

That’s where the well-rounded industry visionary comes in. Thus in many but not all instances, the visionary designer needs a visionary sales and marketing person on the team. Every now and then though, those combined skills do reside in one skull.

Such as?


Err. Well …. Bob Stuart immediately springs to mind. He’s demonstrated his design prowess and entrepreneur spirit with Lecson, Orpheus and of course Meridian. Dr Bews of LFD is another. (Long pause) Antony Michaelson too, but in a slightly different way.

Any more?


Not that I know personally, no. But from a distance I guess you’d include the late Mr. .....

Continues @ http://www.hifianswers.com/2016/02/11779/

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 14:26
I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

As you touch on, it is impossible to make a real list of great amp designers because the majority were/are back room technical people who never saw the limelight... But, a few do deserve mention and I will also mention that a few you named definitely don't! Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.

Here's some of the real greats in no particular order:

Alan Blumlein
James Bongiorno
Peter Walker
Mike Albinson
Aubrey Sandman
Susumu Tanaka
Tim de Paravicini
Doug Self
Arthur Bailey
Peter Baxandall
David Hafler
Nelson Pass
John Curl
Joe Curcio
John Linsley Hood
Erno Borbely
Malcolm Hawksford
Stan Curtis
Norman Crowhurst

Apologies to the ones I've inadvertently omitted and some big names deliberately not there as they were primarily business men not designers.

anthonyTD
12-02-2016, 15:34
:)
I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

As you touch on, it is impossible to make a real list of great amp designers because the majority were/are back room technical people who never saw the limelight... But, a few do deserve mention and I will also mention that a few you named definitely don't! Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.

Here's some of the real greats in no particular order:

James Bongiorno
Peter Walker
Tim de Paravicini
Doug Self
Arthur Bailey
Peter Baxandall
David Hafler
Nelson Pass
John Curl
Joe Curcio
John Linsley Hood
Erno Borbely
Malcolm Hawksford

Apologies to the ones I've inadvertently omitted and some big names deliberately not there as they were primarily business men not designers.

Marco
12-02-2016, 16:33
Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.


Lol... I can think of someone else both you and I know, who comes into that category ('flattering to deceive', as it were, and that's giving him a compliment) - and he's not even that good a businessman either...

More of a clown, or a prime candidate for psychosis assessment, than a businessman or an audio designer! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Neil McCauley
12-02-2016, 16:43
[QUOTE=Arkless Electronics;729385]I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

Well, of course it is. That's the entire point and rather successful in this respect it is too.

Neil McCauley
12-02-2016, 16:47
Lol... I can think of someone else both you and I know, who comes into that category ('flattering to deceive', as it were, and that's giving him a compliment) - and he's not even that good a businessman either... More of a clown, or a prime candidate for psychosis assessment, than a businessman! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Hmm, well to quote Francis Urquhart ..... "You may think that, i can't possibly comment"

Marco
12-02-2016, 16:49
Trust me, Howard, you'd agree if you knew whom I was referring to ;)

PM me, if you like.

Marco.

Barry
12-02-2016, 16:56
I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

As you touch on, it is impossible to make a real list of great amp designers because the majority were/are back room technical people who never saw the limelight... But, a few do deserve mention and I will also mention that a few you named definitely don't! Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.

Here's some of the real greats in no particular order:

James Bongiorno
Peter Walker
Tim de Paravicini
Doug Self
Arthur Bailey
Peter Baxandall
David Hafler
Nelson Pass
John Curl
Joe Curcio
John Linsley Hood
Erno Borbely
Malcolm Hawksford

Apologies to the ones I've inadvertently omitted and some big names deliberately not there as they were primarily business men not designers.

No complaints there, though I haven't heard of Joe Curcio or of Erno Borbely. I would add Arthur Radford to the list as well; not necessarily for amplifier circuit design but for audio transformer design.

Neil McCauley
12-02-2016, 17:00
Trust me, Howard, you'd agree if you knew whom I was referring to ;)

PM me, if you like.

Marco.

Ah Marco. I'm pretty sure I know who you mean. My guess is you're probably quite correct too – if we agree re the identity – which I believe we do. Meanwhile, the Francis U quote was – of course – tongue in cheek. It is, after all, Friday afternoon and life is, from one perspective, merely a race against time.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 17:06
No complaints there, though I haven't heard of Joe Curcio or of Erno Borbely. I would add Arthur Radford to the list as well; not necessarily for amplifier circuit design but for audio transformer design.

I originally had Radford on the list but then removed him as being mainly a transformer designer... Arthur Bailey of course designed the wide bandwidth phase splitter for the latter Radford amps.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 17:14
Added a few. Tempted to add Harold Black for the huge contribution his work made to hi fi but as he didn't actually design hifi amplifiers... "just" discovered negative feedback!

Barry
12-02-2016, 17:28
I originally had Radford on the list but then removed him as being mainly a transformer designer... Arthur Bailey of course designed the wide bandwidth phase splitter for the latter Radford amps.

Agreed - many British 15-25W push-pull amps were based on the Mullard 5-20 design, published to promote their EL34 pentode. This used an ECC83 for the phase splitter; it was Dr Bailey (who worked as consultant to Radford, and was responsible for the design of the transmission line speakers) who suggested using an ECF82.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 17:57
I don't know how I forgot my own electronics hero Alan Blumlein! Added!

Barry
12-02-2016, 18:10
I don't know how I forgot my own electronics hero Alan Blumlein! Added!

An electronics genius without a doubt, and inventor of the Blumlein configuration of microphones for two-channel stereo - but a member of 'The amplifier designer hall of fame'? I think there is a balanced line output stage that bears his name, but it little used.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 18:29
An electronics genius without a doubt, and inventor of the Blumlein configuration of microphones for two-channel stereo - but a member of 'The amplifier designer hall of fame'? I think there is a balanced line output stage that bears his name, but it little used.

Indeed and I thought about that and concluded that whilst he didn't design any commercial hi fi amps he did invent the Long Tailed Pair, used in 80%+ of amps.... Also as a very prolific designer he must have designed all sorts of amps that we never got to hear about! He patented new circuit techniques on a weekly basis!
And if that and the mic technique aren't enough then he invented stereo itself... and binaural... and recording stereo records... and the stereo cartridge... and led the team that made TV into a practical all electronic product, designing aspects of the line timebase circuitry that were used in most tellys for decades. A true genius who deserves to be a household name alongside the likes of Brunel, Whittle, Baird etc but who died young and whilst working on top secret stuff for the military when his plane came down during WW2. His military work was still classified for ages afterwards and this, plus the technical nature of much of his work, has denied him his rightful place in British history :)

Halfway Tree
12-02-2016, 18:33
I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

As you touch on, it is impossible to make a real list of great amp designers because the majority were/are back room technical people who never saw the limelight... But, a few do deserve mention and I will also mention that a few you named definitely don't! Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.

Here's some of the real greats in no particular order:

Alan Blumlein
James Bongiorno
Peter Walker
Mike Albinson
Aubrey Sandman
Susumu Tanaka
Tim de Paravicini
Doug Self
Arthur Bailey
Peter Baxandall
David Hafler
Nelson Pass
John Curl
Joe Curcio
John Linsley Hood
Erno Borbely
Malcolm Hawksford

Apologies to the ones I've inadvertently omitted and some big names deliberately not there as they were primarily business men not designers.

Great to see Joe Curcio on your list, Jez.

I still have a couple of his hybrid jfet/valve line stages and his re-working of Hafler's Dynaco ST 70. I built it more than 20 years ago from his article in one of the first issues of Glass Audio.

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc480/musicmusic2/2011_0930beardst70.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/musicmusic2/media/2011_0930beardst70.jpg.html)

One of these days I'll bring it to NEBO.

Gordon

Marco
12-02-2016, 18:38
Indeed and I thought about that and concluded that whilst he didn't design any commercial hi fi amps he did invent the Long Tailed Pair, used in 80%+ of amps.... Also as a very prolific designer he must have designed all sorts of amps that we never got to hear about! He patented new circuit techniques on a weekly basis!
And if that and the mic technique aren't enough then he invented stereo itself... and binaural... and recording stereo records... and the stereo cartridge... and led the team that made TV into a practical all electronic product, designing aspects of the line timebase circuitry that were used in most tellys for decades. A true genius who deserves to be a household name alongside the likes of Brunel, Whittle, Baird etc but who died young and whilst working on top secret stuff for the military when his plane came down during WW2. His military work was still classified for ages afterwards and this, plus the technical nature of much of his work, has denied him his rightful place in British history :)

Yes, that's all good and well, but could any of them design an audiophile mains lead? :D

Marco.

Barry
12-02-2016, 18:38
Agree with everything you say. Indeed it is a travesty that Blumlein is not better known. EMI (for whom Blumlein worked), has a lot to answer for in that regard.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 18:41
Yes, that's all good and well, but could any of them design an audiophile mains lead? :D

Marco.

There's always one! I bet you'd be the one at the back of the audience at a Mozart work who shouts "got any Quo!?" :ner:

Marco
12-02-2016, 18:45
Lol, no. I'm rather fond of Mozart, and not much of a Quo fan!

Marco.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 18:46
Agree with everything you say. Indeed it is a travesty that Blumlein is not better known. EMI (for whom Blumlein worked), has a lot to answer for in that regard.

But maybe not as much to answer for as the dickhead who collected up most of the known info on Blumlein, interviewed his widow and colleagues, made pleas in the electronics press for people to send him anything they had on Blumlein... and then did now't about it in spite of public shaming over the affair for 20+ years. He died without publishing anything. Thankfully someone else then managed to get hold of all his notes etc and wrote the book the world of electronics had been waiting for ;)

Barry
12-02-2016, 18:49
Are audiophile mains leads designed? If anything, they are carefully chosen cables available "off the drum" and fitted with good quality connectors. :sofa:

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 18:57
Lol, no. I'm rather fond of Mozart, and not much of a Quo fan!

Marco.

:D

I'm sure if there had been hitherto unknown properties to a mains cable then one of the luminaries on the list (especially Blumlein!) would have found it.... not to mention all the other geniuses working for the likes of Hewlett Packard, Marconi, EMI, NASA, Philips, Sony, Fermi Lab, M.I.T etc :eyebrows: Maybe audiophiles discovered gravity waves years ago but were too busy cleaning "Jazz at the pawnshop" to tell anyone? :eek:

But we're getting off topic now :lol:

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 18:59
Great to see Joe Curcio on your list, Jez.

I still have a couple of his hybrid jfet/valve line stages and his re-working of Hafler's Dynaco ST 70. I built it more than 20 years ago from his article in one of the first issues of Glass Audio.

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc480/musicmusic2/2011_0930beardst70.jpg (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/musicmusic2/media/2011_0930beardst70.jpg.html)

One of these days I'll bring it to NEBO.

Gordon

Hi Gordon. I'm sure plenty of us will take you up on that one!

Neil McCauley
12-02-2016, 19:00
I know this is just a click bait to get folks on to Hi Fi Answers web site but..... Anyhow...

As you touch on, it is impossible to make a real list of great amp designers because the majority were/are back room technical people who never saw the limelight... But, a few do deserve mention and I will also mention that a few you named definitely don't! Antony Michealson is no amp designer for a start and Julian Vereker can hardly be called an amp designer for copying an application note.... good business men yes.

Here's some of the real greats in no particular order:

Alan Blumlein
James Bongiorno
Peter Walker
Mike Albinson
Aubrey Sandman
Susumu Tanaka
Tim de Paravicini
Doug Self
Arthur Bailey
Peter Baxandall
David Hafler
Nelson Pass
John Curl
Joe Curcio
John Linsley Hood
Erno Borbely
Malcolm Hawksford

Apologies to the ones I've inadvertently omitted and some big names deliberately not there as they were primarily business men not designers.

No mention (yet) of Colin Wonfor nor Bob (Robert) Stuart? Had the original interview taken place when I became reconnected with CW I'd have certainly included him in the designer heroes-I-have-met.

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 19:10
Stan Curtis added.

Marco
12-02-2016, 19:12
:D

I'm sure if there had been hitherto unknown properties to a mains cable then one of the luminaries on the list (especially Blumlein!) would have found it.... not to mention all the other geniuses working for the likes of Hewlett Packard, Marconi, EMI, NASA, Philips, Sony, Fermi Lab, M.I.T etc :eyebrows: Maybe audiophiles discovered gravity waves years ago but were too busy cleaning "Jazz at the pawnshop" to tell anyone? :eek:

But we're getting off topic now :lol:

:lolsign:

Marco.

Barry
12-02-2016, 19:30
No mention (yet) of Colin Wonfor nor Bob (Robert) Stuart? Had the original interview taken place when I became reconnected with CW I'd have certainly included him in the designer heroes-I-have-met.

I was going to mention Bob Stuart, but didn't as I thought you had already included him in you interview. The same for Stan Curtis.

Halfway Tree
12-02-2016, 19:34
I think Siegfried Linkwitz should perhaps be on your list, Jez.

I wonder how many speakers use his crossovers (developed with Russ Riley) and his work on acoustic theory is up there with the best.

Gordon

Marco
12-02-2016, 19:39
Are audiophile mains leads designed? If anything, they are carefully chosen cables available "off the drum" and fitted with good quality connectors. :sofa:

Indeed, which is precisely what I've done with my 'French specials'! ;)

Marco.

Barry
12-02-2016, 19:40
True - but it's the amplifier designer hall of fame. If we are going to open it out to other luminaries of audio, then the list will much, much longer!

Arkless Electronics
12-02-2016, 20:31
True - but it's the amplifier designer hall of fame. If we are going to open it out to other luminaries of audio, then the list will much, much longer!

Indeed.

Halfway Tree
12-02-2016, 20:54
Point taken....got carried away with your Blumlien discussion - and most of what I know about him is his working on recording etc.

Gordon

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 05:21
Twice hand stutter

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 05:22
:D

I'm sure if there had been hitherto unknown properties to a mains cable then one of the luminaries on the list (especially Blumlein!) would have found it.... not to mention all the other geniuses working for the likes of Hewlett Packard, Marconi, EMI, NASA, Philips, Sony, Fermi Lab, M.I.T etc :eyebrows: Maybe audiophiles discovered gravity waves years ago but were too busy cleaning "Jazz at the pawnshop" to tell anyone? :eek:

But we're getting off topic now :lol:

A very cynical remark or fact?
Well I did a few tests and a bit of thought on mains cable and what the cable were fitted too, and a cable can make a huge different, Like I did in the 1980 with gold plug a again cynicism coughed and spluttered about saying crap, snake oil, and now strange the whole world uses Gold Power Connector and a few copied my ideas (no original thought again just money).
So if a tiny bit of thought was to go into what and how the cable could and does affect its load, maybe you might see in a new light, or not.


https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12741911_1555330928118599_2172965082441508350_n.jp g?oh=9bd8e18b481cbaf4696f2673e92ac19c&oe=5724749C

Who recalls these?

lurcher
13-02-2016, 09:05
But maybe not as much to answer for as the dickhead who collected up most of the known info on Blumlein, interviewed his widow and colleagues, made pleas in the electronics press for people to send him anything they had on Blumlein... and then did now't about it in spite of public shaming over the affair for 20+ years. He died without publishing anything. Thankfully someone else then managed to get hold of all his notes etc and wrote the book the world of electronics had been waiting for

His biog did get written, and well worth a read it is to. Hugely important engineer in the history of electronics, not just audio. Dont forget he invented ultra linear as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Inventor-Stereo-Works-Blumlein/dp/0240516281

I would also add

D.T.N. Williamson
Norman H Crowhurst

to your list

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 15:22
His biog did get written, and well worth a read it is to. Hugely important engineer in the history of electronics, not just audio. Dont forget he invented ultra linear as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Inventor-Stereo-Works-Blumlein/dp/0240516281

I would also add



D.T.N. Williamson
Norman H Crowhurst

to your list

He did indeed invent ultra linear yes. And you could have been reading my mind on the further two you mentioned! I was planing on adding Crowhurst but decided against Williamson on the grounds of it was just one amp, important though it was, and had design errors in it at that...

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 15:23
A very cynical remark or fact?
Well I did a few tests and a bit of thought on mains cable and what the cable were fitted too, and a cable can make a huge different, Like I did in the 1980 with gold plug a again cynicism coughed and spluttered about saying crap, snake oil, and now strange the whole world uses Gold Power Connector and a few copied my ideas (no original thought again just money).
So if a tiny bit of thought was to go into what and how the cable could and does affect its load, maybe you might see in a new light, or not.


https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/v/t1.0-9/12741911_1555330928118599_2172965082441508350_n.jp g?oh=9bd8e18b481cbaf4696f2673e92ac19c&oe=5724749C

Who recalls these?

Total bollocks. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 15:32
Crowhurst added.

walpurgis
13-02-2016, 15:41
Total bollocks. But you are entitled to your opinion.

He He. Naughty Jez. ;)

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 15:49
You also, but the Earth is still flat.

Marco
13-02-2016, 16:33
Total bollocks. But you are entitled to your opinion.

One day you might learn to release yourself from the shackles of dogmatic absolutism, and become an even better electronics designer than you are because of it... ;)

Marco.

Marco
13-02-2016, 16:34
You also, but the Earth is still flat.

Indeed. 'Heretics', eh? Who needs 'em! ;)

Marco.

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 16:48
Marco I would love to, but runnig out of time. To much to learn and wreck, smoke again this week on plasma generator, wrecked lawn again.

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 16:49
We are all heretics, the natural state in the universe is not life. So we are all heretics.

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 16:53
One day you might learn to release yourself from the shackles of dogmatic absolutism, and become an even better electronics designer than you are because of it... ;)

Marco.

I aim to continually improve in my chosen field of electronic engineering but mains leads etc will NEVER have any part in it Marco.

I will repeat that mains leads do not, never have and never will have ANY effect whatsoever on sound quality and that anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
Absolute and black and white and all I have to say on the subject ;)

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 17:07
I aim to continually improve in my chosen field of electronic engineering but mains leads etc will NEVER have any part in it Marco.

Shit no TV or PC without mains leads.

I would agree that little changes on DC, but I thought all of UK was now 50Hz AC with transformer and bridge rectifiers and SMPSU of all kind of loads and data over mains, and these loads have no effects on the type or design of cable, so my total 30yrs of designing power supplies was wasted when I could have used an accumulator and gone to the bike shop to have it charged?

So what is your theory how current passes down a cable to the load, be it resistive, inductive, capacitive or all types including pulse. And should we all be using 30 Amp cooker cable on our speakers or wet string?

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 17:18
I'm not going to be drawn into further pointless circular arguments about cables Colin.
I guess you, and a lot of others, will just have to agree to disagree with me on this as, apart from the discussion being pointless, it always ends up with people taking offence at an opposite opinion :)

Colin Wonfor
13-02-2016, 17:23
No offence intended my apologies.:)

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 17:26
No offence intended my apologies.:)

Non taken :)

Spectral Morn
13-02-2016, 17:33
Nice to see Roger Modeski on that list, virtually unknown in the UK and I guess Europe too, but his Music Reference designs are very good, as are his RAM labs valves.

I am lucky in that I own a Music Reference RM200 mk 1 amp, fabulous. Its been a Class A rated product in Stereophile for years, now in MK2 guise.

Marco
13-02-2016, 17:57
I aim to continually improve in my chosen field of electronic engineering but mains leads etc will NEVER have any part in it Marco.


Cool. That's your choice.


I will repeat that mains leads do not, never have and never will have ANY effect whatsoever on sound quality and that anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
Absolute and black and white and all I have to say on the subject ;)

Lol... I severely doubt that!

A continually repeated falsehood does not become a truism, simply by being repeated ;)

:ner:

Marco.

Arkless Electronics
13-02-2016, 18:05
Cool. That's your choice.



Lol... I severely doubt that!

A continually repeated falsehood is not made any more true, simply by being repeated ;)

:ner:

Marco.

"A continually repeated falsehood is not made any more true, simply by being repeated"

We can agree on that.... but from opposite sides of the debate I think! :D

Marco
13-02-2016, 18:25
Agreed! Btw, I've rewritten that statement, in order to make it more succinct. I'll permit you to use it in an alien context for a nominal fee... :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.