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Firebottle
07-02-2016, 13:36
It has been on the cards for quite a while so I was very pleased when James found time for another visit.
I had amassed quite a few bits and pieces to take round, particularly as we now both have a Lenco GL75.

James confirmed that I am the only AoS member that has heard his system, so let me share my appraisal. It is very very good.

The beauty is that every component works brilliantly with every other, along the lines of Marcos thinking to aim for matching performance in every link in the chain.
The VPI TT is the 'rock' that underpins the system, not the cheapest but not the dearest TT around, but quality.

The Croft amplification works brilliantly and, having been improved along the way by James, is of matching performance for the system as a whole.
The speakers, IMHO, are an under rated model, judging from comments I have read in the past.

They are Spendor SP2 Mark 1 (I believe) and as far as I can ascertain took a downward turn in the Mark 2. When I first heard them I was impressed enough to say to James that I wanted to have first refusal if ever he sold them. Their image presentation is wonderful.

Now to comparisons and first listens.
This was my first exposure to the Shure M55 along with Jico SAS stylus. If your eyesight isn't that good you just have to believe that there is a diamond on the end of the (short) cantilever, it is minute.

One word - stunning. Two words - absolute bargain. Oodles of musicality and detail. Well done everyone that has bagged one, get yourselves a Jico stylus.

Next came a very interesting comparison for me, my Firebottle AIR power amp and James Croft 7, the amplifier that inspired the AIR development.
Both amplifiers are hybrid topology and similar in execution, let's be honest how many different ways are there to combine a valve driver stage with a MOSFET output stage?

The similarity in sound was uncanny but there were very small differences. The Croft has a smidgen more depth to the image whereas the AIR had a bit more grip and heft in the bass.

Now to the GL75 bake off. I had brought with me a couple of Lenco headshells fitted with different cartridges so we had 3 to chop and change.
The KIN preamp was plumbed in so that we had MM and MC capability.

First off was James's stock AT95E, as an entry level cart a very respectable performance. Even at this level the 'drive' imparted by the Lenco idler drive was apparent.
Next up was my Acutex 312, a fairly considerable improvement in sound, more open and dynamic.

Lastly an MC was introduced, the first in James's system, my Ortofon Samba, the mid offering of the budget Tango/Samba/Salsa range. Priced at £100/150/200 this is the budget end of MC's but a good jump in clarity and detail over the MM cartridges.

So of all the carts tried the Samba gave the best performance which bodes well for the imminent delivery of the 301 that James has ordered.


The usual 'hifi' discussions were enjoyed and I thank James for providing a very nice lunch, plus great coffee throughout :thumbsup:

James did take a couple of photos so over to you mate.

CageyH
07-02-2016, 15:34
It sounds like you have had another good session.

I thought your Acutex was a 312?

Jimbo
07-02-2016, 15:36
Well it was a pleasure to have Mr Firebottle round for another session and as always the time was too short and we only managed to skim through a small amount of vinyl but we hooked up a fair bit of kit, one item of which Alan did not mention however I will attach pics:)

Thanks also for bringing so much equipment with you Alan and nice to see the prototype Vivant although I think this still has to be finalised? I am sure the finished Phono stage will be the pinnacle of the Firebottle Phono range.

I think Alan has captured the session and our thoughts on the equipment used very well however I would like to add a few comments of my own.

I had left my system hooked up with the VPI running the M55e /JICO SAS cartridge so we kicked off with that and I am glad Alan has been a witness to its capabilities of which I have mentioned just a little in other posts:)
This combination really is worth seeking out as both of us felt it was a stunning cartridge/stylus! It still shocks me how good it is and all for a bargain £175. Alan has a very good audio memory and I think even he would agree it is a superb alternative to the 2M black I previously used or any other MM out there - thanks Marco for suggesting this route:thumbsup:

We then moved onto the Air swapping out the Croft 7. The Air is currently cheaper and delivers very much the same sonic experience of the Croft 7. We were splitting hairs in any differences found and if I was in the market for a 90w power amp the AIR would be snapped up straight away. Fantastic build quality and amazing performance for the price.

Next up I think was the Lenco GL75 which had a bit of surgery curtesy of Mr Firebottle. The captive RCA plugs were probably the puniest poor quality we had ever seen in the audio world (photo below) so Alan popped on some spare MS audio plugs I had knocking around. These although not ideal did the trick. I had spent some time cleaning and oiling the Lenco and have been mightly impressed with this TT although I have only used it a little. We swapped out the VPI and listened to 2 very moderately priced MM cartridges and the only MC cartridge we had (Ortofon Samba). Alan has given a great account of our findings so I wont go into any more detail.

This TT is in very good nick with original arm and sounded superb with great drive and rock solid stability. I would say if I did not have the VPI I could very happily live with this. I think they are greatly underrated, mine was £50+ AT95e £20 - £70 all in - Try and beat that for SPPV!:)

Now for the Ortofon MC we had to use the Firebottle KIN which Alan just happened to have with him. I heard this when it was first built but since then Alan has tweaked it a little.

This is a stunning Preamp with a fabulous MC stage. I feel it has more transparency and air than the Croft 25R and I would have no doubt about purchasing this preamp, it really is superb. The phono stage upgrade Alan has done is one of the best I have heard so cant wait to hear the stand alone phono version of this when he launches the Vivant!

Whilst we were messing with the MC cartridge Alan did have another small box with him - A head amp. This device was assembled from Alans spare parts bin and did the job but was blown away by the KIN. It was in no way a serious attempt by Alan at a head amp but I hoping when he has time he will put one together with his usual flair and consideration for choice components. The design concept is very interesting and I,m sure if Alan does build one it will be a giant killer and compete with anything out there!;)

The afternoon ended with the Lenco GL75 playing through the AIR and KIN via the Spendors and I must it sounded superb.

Music listened to:

Keb Mo - Keb Mo
Harry Connick Junior - We are in love
Stevie Ray Vaughan - couldnt stand the weather
Boris Blank and Malia - Convergance
Rodrigo and Gabriella
Louis Armstrong - Satchmo plays King Oliver.

My thoughts at the end of the session were that there is some stunningly great equipment out there which can deliver fantastic audio performance and a very moderate price. You don,t have to spend a fortune to reach sonic nirvana!

Alans amplifiers are truly great hand built gems that can compete with far higher priced equipment. Most importantly they deliver music and in my case the vinyl experience in all its musical, rich detailed analogue sound. Very addictive and a no brainer if your in the market for a power amp, preamp or phono stage.


http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1262_zpsvk90sdcz.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1262_zpsvk90sdcz.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1263_zpsskaoq9iu.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1263_zpsskaoq9iu.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1265_zpsx0pxlggv.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1265_zpsx0pxlggv.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1268_zpsf1zncy6f.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1268_zpsf1zncy6f.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1270_zpsnmrtjczx.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1270_zpsnmrtjczx.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1272_zpstabfd1b9.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1272_zpstabfd1b9.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1273_zpsdytv9zkv.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1273_zpsdytv9zkv.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image.jpg1_zpssksycpm1.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image.jpg1_zpssksycpm1.jpg.html)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg.html)

Firebottle
07-02-2016, 16:45
I thought your Acutex was a 312?

Aye you're right, the cartridge in this session was a 312. I do also have a 412 which is on my other TT.

Marco
07-02-2016, 22:54
Interesting stuff, guys! Glad you had a good sesh, and will comment more later :cool:

Alan, what did you think of the M55E's, so-called, "lack of treble extension"? ;)

Marco.

P.S These are about the shittiest looking plugs (and cables) I've ever seen:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg.html)

:spew: :vomfest:

Whatever they belong to, rip 'em off and get 'em sorted - and that's an order! :eyebrows:

Jimbo
08-02-2016, 07:06
Interesting stuff, guys! Glad you had a good sesh, and will comment more later :cool:

Alan, what did you think of the M55E's, so-called, "lack of treble extension"? ;)

Marco.

P.S These are about the shittiest looking plugs (and cables) I've ever seen:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1260_zpstdp5nyp4.jpg.html)

:spew: :vomfest:

Whatever they belong to, rip 'em off and get 'em sorted - and that's an order! :eyebrows:

Hi Marco, your order has already been obeyed.

Alan kindly soldered some MS Audio plugs on to replace them, not ideal but a vast improvement! I think these plugs ought to start a new galley for the worst hifi components in history! :lol:

Marco
08-02-2016, 08:12
Well done - they were well skanky! What were they fitted on - the tonearm lead for the Lenco?

TBH, the cable doesn't look up to much either, so to do the job right, you'd be better off fitting a whole new lead. That's definitely one area of audio where MAJOR advances have been made in recent times! ;)

Marco.

Firebottle
08-02-2016, 08:37
Alan, what did you think of the M55E's, so-called, "lack of treble extension"? ;)

Marco.

I'm sorry, what lack :scratch:

Don't forget James has the Jico stylus, there was no lack of extension. As far as we were concerned it was playing what was on the record, plus a very quiet background.

It was almost like the Jico was glued to the groove walls :eek:

Marco
08-02-2016, 12:25
Cool.

Did you also get to hear the Shure with its NOS stylus, and if so, what would your comments be, in terms of "treble extension"? :)

Marco.

Jimbo
08-02-2016, 12:48
I did not have the Shure with the NOS stylus set up unfortunately Marco. Alan only heard the Shure /JICO SAS.

I have been impressed with the M55e with NOS Shure stylus but cant go back after listening to the SAS. This combination in my system is truly stunning as Alan found out.:)

However as the day proceeded it was interesting to hear how the other cartridges compared albeit on the Lenco GL75, which I must say is a seriously good sounding TT and almost up to the VPI in terms of level of playback.

The At95e sounded pleasant enough but was easily beaten by the Acutex but neither where anywhere as good as the Shure/ SAS or I would say the Shure NOS stylus. But the Ortofon Salsa MC as Alan mentioned took everything to another level beyond the Shure/SAS. Unfortunately time was running out and we only played a couple of tracks with this cartridge but they were enough to tell me that it is a great cartridge for £100 which was I think what Alan paid for it?

If this is a glimpse of what is to come when I get the Denon 301 MC set up in the VPI, like you said in your message, I will be in vinyl heaven! :)

Marco
08-02-2016, 20:00
Hi Jim,


I did not have the Shure with the NOS stylus set up unfortunately Marco. Alan only heard the Shure /JICO SAS.

I have been impressed with the M55e with NOS Shure stylus but cant go back after listening to the SAS. This combination in my system is truly stunning as Alan found out.


No worries, mate, and I can't say I'm surprised. However, Jico stylus aside, as I've no doubt that moves things forward nicely, did you perceive a lack of treble extension with the NOS Shure stylus? There certainly isn't any here, inherent limitations of MM cartridges in that area aside.


The At95e sounded pleasant enough but was easily beaten by the Acutex but neither where anywhere as good as the Shure/ SAS or I would say the Shure NOS stylus. But the Ortofon Salsa MC as Alan mentioned took everything to another level beyond the Shure/SAS.


Yup, I'm not surprised about that. A good MC, partnered properly, will ultimately outperform most MM cartridges in key areas of music reproduction. That's why I use my MCs more often than my MMs - *but* it's nice to have a change sometimes, in order to appreciate what good MMs do well.


If this is a glimpse of what is to come when I get the Denon 301 MC set up in the VPI, like you said in your message, I will be in vinyl heaven! :)

You will indeed, mate. As good as the Salsa is, a DL-301 should comfortably outperform it :cool:

Marco.

Jimbo
08-02-2016, 20:51
Hi Marco,

The Shure with NOS Shure stylus was not lacking in the treble region, it was just less prominent in the way it came across in the mix. This cartridge was richer and meatier sounding than the Shure SAS but the SAS was more explicit and dynamic.

Your description of how the M55e came across was similar to how I perceived it in my system, very musical and allowed you to enjoy the recording in a relaxed way without drawing attention to the 'hifi' aspects:)

Considering how much I have enjoyed my 2M black, I am still surprised how good this M55e cartridge is. I know some folk may be sceptical having probably used one years ago in lesser systems, this cartridge can certainly stand up to the modern offerings especially when teamed up with the SAS stylus.

I have been reviewing comments across the Internet forums regarding the Denon 301 Mk2 and most are extremely positive. Some folk funny enough have moved on from a 2M black to thus MC and they have commented on exactly some of the shortfalls the 2M has.

Listening to the Shure / JICO SAS has been a revelation and if you look back at Alan's comments he found the same experience as myself , so nice to know it's not just me! :)

As you found at Marco towers, Alan's amps are truly great products which I have been fortunate to hear a number of times and in development and the KIN or his new phono stage when it's built would be great devices for running a MC cartridge.

As you know I will need to find away to use an MC with my Croft so it will be interesting to see what works best. I have 3 options whirring in my mind. A phono stage with MC facility via Croft line stage, a SUT or a head amp.

Not sure which will work the best so might end up with all 3! :lol:

Marco
08-02-2016, 22:36
The Shure with NOS Shure stylus was not lacking in the treble region, it was just less prominent in the way it came across in the mix. This cartridge was richer and meatier sounding than the Shure SAS but the SAS was more explicit and dynamic.


Cool. That's pretty much exactly how I'd have predicted it :)


Considering how much I have enjoyed my 2M black, I am still surprised how good this M55e cartridge is. I know some folk may be sceptical having probably used one years ago in lesser systems, this cartridge can certainly stand up to the modern offerings especially when teamed up with the SAS stylus.


As they say: "You better believe it, bruv!" ;)


I have been reviewing comments across the Internet forums regarding the Denon 301 Mk2 and most are extremely positive. Some folk funny enough have moved on from a 2M black to thus MC and they have commented on exactly some of the shortfalls the 2M has.


Yeah, that's good news. Honestly though, your forthcoming 301 MKII will annihilate a 2M Black.


As you found at Marco towers, Alan's amps are truly great products which I have been fortunate to hear a number of times and in development and the KIN or his new phono stage when it's built would be great devices for running a MC cartridge.


Indeed, I was very impressed with Alan's kit, and wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone on the market for top-notch products, at realistic prices, which are able to compete with the best. As such, I'd be proud to own any of his gear.


As you know I will need to find away to use an MC with my Croft so it will be interesting to see what works best. I have 3 options whirring in my mind. A phono stage with MC facility via Croft line stage, a SUT or a head amp.


Defo DON'T do that, as you'll be unnecessarily complicating the signal path! :nono:

If you feel that you need to upgrade from the phono stage in the Croft, and want to do it with one box, then buy a KIN, or something else of its ilk, and sell the Croft. However, if you're more than happy with the phono stage in your Croft, then go for an SUT or head amp.

Good versions of the latter tend to be rather more expensive, however, than the K&K SUT you've been looking at. It just depends on how much you want to spend :cool:

Marco.

Jimbo
09-02-2016, 07:12
Thanks for the advice regarding using an MC with the Croft, it makes my decision a little easier and possibly cheaper!:cool:

Jimbo
14-02-2016, 17:00
A few more pics from last saturdays session
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/HiFi/IMG_0980_zpsc3c4ee32.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/HiFi/IMG_0980_zpsc3c4ee32.jpg.html)http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1128_zpsb1xissro.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1128_zpsb1xissro.jpg.html)

Qwin
15-02-2016, 18:54
Good session Guys.
I can second James view of the KIN Pre/Phono, I had it on loan for a while and also compared it with my own Croft Micro25. The KIN Phono stage is excellent and the line stage is very good as well. I thought the line stages were a close run thing, with the KIN just winning by a nose, slightly more energetic feel to it, but not much in it. The Phono stage was a different thing, the Croft is a very good Phono stage but I felt the KIN was quite noticeably better, very detailed yet open and musical. I enjoyed spinning plenty of vinyl during its stay.

EDIT: Just an observation James, you have your speakers sat with the base flat face on the stands. Try some blocks on each corner to lift and separate the panels.
I am guessing that this might improve your base definition, costs very little, so worth a try, you might like it. ;)

Jimbo
15-02-2016, 20:04
Good session Guys.
I can second James view of the KIN Pre/Phono, I had it on loan for a while and also compared it with my own Croft Micro25. The KIN Phono stage is excellent and the line stage is very good as well. I thought the line stages were a close run thing, with the KIN just winning by a nose, slightly more energetic feel to it, but not much in it. The Phono stage was a different thing, the Croft is a very good Phono stage but I felt the KIN was quite noticeably better, very detailed yet open and musical. I enjoyed spinning plenty of vinyl during its stay.

EDIT: Just an observation James, you have your speakers sat with the base flat face on the stands. Try some blocks on each corner to lift and separate the panels.
I am guessing that this might improve your base definition, costs very little, so worth a try, you might like it. ;)

Thanks for the tip Ken, I am indeed going do something along those lines. May use some oak or graphite cones:eyebrows:

RichB
15-02-2016, 21:07
A few more pics from last saturdays session
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/HiFi/IMG_0980_zpsc3c4ee32.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/HiFi/IMG_0980_zpsc3c4ee32.jpg.html)http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1128_zpsb1xissro.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1128_zpsb1xissro.jpg.html)

Looks smashing Jimbo.

Qwin
15-02-2016, 21:22
Thanks for the tip Ken, I am indeed going do something along those lines. May use some oak or graphite cones:eyebrows:

I used some wooden draughts pieces, and it worked a treat.

Jimbo
15-02-2016, 21:43
I used some wooden draughts pieces, and it worked a treat.

Brilliant idea and costs nought,maximum SPPV! Have you seen the price of oak cones and the graphite ones are probably eye watering.

Cheers for that recommendation Ken:thumbsup: