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Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 18:31
Been looking at Tubes today & come to the realisation the NOS tubes are through the roof, another band wagon it seems.

I'm willing to try the below. Anyone had good experiences.A friend & his friend has no problems with JJ it seems.

Sovtek
Svetlana
JJ

Cotlake
24-10-2009, 19:08
Hi Andre,

In general, all the makes you have listed are good but it's not quite as simple as that because it depends on the particular valve you need as sound performance is variable not just between types but also between the makers of those different types.

If you tell us specifically what valves you are interested in, some of us here should be able to give more detailed recommendations.

Regards,

Greg

Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 19:21
There all for a Leak Stereo 20 rebuild, yeh i know they should be Mullards to keep originality but i'm afraid the amps gonna be far from original looking.

3 x ECC83
4 X EL84
1 X GZ34

Cotlake
24-10-2009, 20:33
Hi Andre,

Yes, looking around, nos prices are getting silly. In my system, the only valve I use common with your need is the ECC83. I have three in my phono stage and I'm not going to be helpful because I've replaced the original JJ's with nos stock following a tube rolling session with a local dealer. The first is a nos Sylvania taking input from both channels and then split to the two further stages so a valve per channel being nos RCA. In comparison the JJ's sounded muddy, however that is an extreme criticism and generally the JJ's are ok and many current users of this phono stage with JJ valves are very happy. Moving on, you might like to consider TJ's.
See this thread http://wduk.worldomain.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4449&highlight=Full+music

For GZ34, obviously Mullard should be the choice but they seem rare now or seriously silly prices. I'd have a look at the Sovtek or JJ.

EL34, once again your choices seem sound but I'd definitely add to your list Electro Harmonix. They seem to be particularly good at making affordable output tubes, certainly for 300B and 2A3. Their EL84 may also be good, but I've not heard them. I would also consider Electro Harmonix for the ECC83.

I'm hoping others will chip in here to allow you to make some reasonable judgements leading to good choices. Good luck!

Regards,

Greg

Haselsh1
24-10-2009, 22:38
I've never had a problem with JJ/Tesla as they have always been quite low gain compared with other valves.

Ali Tait
24-10-2009, 23:23
I bought a matched quad of NOS Philips EL84 from Langrex.Can't say how they compare to Mullard coz I've never heard them,but I find the Philips very nice.

alb
25-10-2009, 11:58
Shuguang are worth trying, though not sure if they make EL84.
There's nothing wrong with their EL34s, which i find more involving than Electro Harmonix.

Rare Bird
28-10-2009, 14:41
Ok then i bought these yesterday EL84KB..They are matched quad set of NOS Reflektors..The KB are a very rugged tube with Chrome pins, thick lead compound glass, double thick mica plates & nickel silver posts, claimed to be one of the most succesfull 'EL84' to emerge from USSR..

Marco
28-10-2009, 14:45
I reckon that they'll be good, Andre. How much wonga did they set you back, then? :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
28-10-2009, 22:11
I reckon that they'll be good, Andre. How much wonga did they set you back, then? :)

Marco.

Hi Marco

Got em for a song just under £30.00 the quad set..

Marco
29-10-2009, 00:20
Nice one :)

I think some of the NOS Russian valves are rather underrated. Mind you, that's why prices are so attractive.

Marco.

Rare Bird
29-10-2009, 00:22
Nice one :)

I think some of the NOS Russian valves are rather underrated. Mind you, that's why prices are so attractive.

Marco.

Sound good aswell. Wouldnt trust a chinese tube as far as i could throw one..A Chinese rectifier especially is a definate no no regardless of anyones claims.

Barry
29-10-2009, 00:29
Hi Marco

Got em for a song just under £30.00 the quad set..

That sounds like a reasonable price. Just avoid any valves made by the Chinese - they're crap; unless screened by the likes of 'Gold Dragon'.

Rare Bird
29-10-2009, 00:38
That sounds like a reasonable price. Just avoid any valves made by the Chinese -

Like the plague Barry..

Marco
29-10-2009, 00:39
Chinese valves are just shit - period! It's a pity that it's only the Russians and them who are making valves now.

Marco.

Ali Tait
29-10-2009, 10:19
Not all Chinese valves are crap,just look at TJ-their 300b is one of the most highly rated in the world.Some rate them even over WE.Also,how about Shuguang? Where else can you get a sanely priced 845? Sorry but I don't fancy paying £1000 for a NOS pair,lovely as they may be,and KR's are not cheap either,if you can get them.As for Russian fare,yes there is a lot of good stuff out there.I have several Svetlana "winged-c" 5u4's,which I find very good.GM70 is another gem,a lovely valve (better than Shuguang 845) Copper-plate ones are not cheap though.

Marco
29-10-2009, 10:26
Hi Ali,

I stand corrected. All the Chinese valves I've heard used in a push-pull design are crap. I have no experience of the Chinese versions of the valves you mention :)

Certainly though, Chinese-made ECC83s are shit, as are KT88s and 6SN7s - all of which in my experience are easily bettered by their Russian and/or American equivalents, either new or NOS.

Marco.

Ali Tait
29-10-2009, 10:33
Well certainly all the front-end valves that came on the Mr Liang were immediately chucked! I've heard that the TJ ecc's are very good,though not tried any myself yet.

Marco
29-10-2009, 10:37
TJ? I've not heard of those. Got any links?

What I've found with the Chinese valves I've tried so far, apart from their generally poor construction in comparison with their American, British or Russian equivalents, is that they exhibit a rather pronounced and edgy top end, which on an otherwise neutral and revealing system is quite fatiguing to listen to. The other valves I've mentioned are generally smoother sounding, but no less detailed with it, and overall have a great deal more finesse throughout the frequency range.

Marco.

Ali Tait
29-10-2009, 10:55
Have a look here-

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/438

And here-

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/437


As I said,not tried them myself,but read a few good reports on them.

Barry
30-10-2009, 17:25
Not all Chinese valves are crap,...

My comments were based on the opinions of staff at the Chelmer Valve Company (just up the road from me) and from the designer of the Papworth valve amplifiers.

I have no direct experience, one way or another, of Chinese valves, but am weary of anything made by the Chinese. I'm sure the Shuguang products are reasonable, but in my experience most Chinese products are badly made and unreliable.

Regards

Spectral Morn
30-10-2009, 18:20
My comments were based on the opinions of staff at the Chelmer Valve Company (just up the road from me) and from the designer of the Papworth valve amplifiers.

I have no direct experience, one way or another, of Chinese valves, but am weary of anything made by the Chinese. I'm sure the Shuguang products are reasonable, but in my experience most Chinese products are badly made and unreliable.

Regards


Shuguang/Gold Dragon/PM Components power valves are crap IMHO (EL34 anyway) and their signal (ECC83/ECC88) valves are not a lot better. Chinese tubes are poor, buy Russian, USA or NOS British if you can.

Of the current reissues I have tried"The New Tung-Sol's" are IMHO very good. IMHO they seem to be better than vintage Tung-Sol in the case of 6SN7 and 5881....don't know about others I have not tried them yet, but I have heard that the ECC83 and ECCC88 are very good.

Edit I forgot about TJ they are very good especially the TJ Meshplate 300B.


Regards D S D L

Ali Tait
30-10-2009, 19:38
TJ are indeed very good.I've heard the 300b and the PX25,both of which are superb.I also had a Mr Liang 845 with Shuguangs,which was a very good amp.No problems with either amp or valves.I had a pair of metal-plates,and a pair of 845b too.Very nice all of them.No reliability issues.

Mike
30-10-2009, 20:00
My comments were based on the opinions of staff at the Chelmer Valve Company

Amazing!... I have several CVC valves which I'd bet my mortgage on as being sourced from China! :scratch:

In addition... by far the worst sounding ECC83 variant I've ever heard was made in Russia!

'Generalizations' when it comes to this kind of thing are pretty dodgy IMHO.

alb
30-10-2009, 20:31
You can't make sweeping statements about certain brands. Very few tube manufacturers will have a perfect range, there will always be a weak link.

Two years ago i dismissed Chinese Shuguang as being somewhat bass light, something Marco also hinted at before. Now i quite like them, because the very same tubes sound different.
The amplifier has got better in the meantime, and now shows that they are capable of reasonable bass output.
The point is that they are the same tubes that i could easily have denounced as being SHIT two years ago.
Yes they must have a top heavy balance, for me to notice it in the first place. But it's much less obvious now. Doesn't make them "shit or crap" though.

Ali Tait
30-10-2009, 20:33
Well said Al.

Mike
30-10-2009, 20:39
Kind of what I was trying to hint at. :)

Barry
30-10-2009, 21:22
Amazing!... I have several CVC valves which I'd bet my mortgage on as being sourced from China! :scratch:

In addition... by far the worst sounding ECC83 variant I've ever heard was made in Russia!

'Generalizations' when it comes to this kind of thing are pretty dodgy IMHO.

I would imagine that both statements are consistent, as CVC screen all foreign sourced valves (just as Mullard did for their 'badged' products in their later years) - it's just that there is a very large reject rate with Chinese valves.

I haven't been to CVC for a good while now (~ 5 years), so the track record of Chinese valves might have improved.

I'm still weary of Chinese products. Every 12 -18 months I have to replace my 'region free' DVD player (I have some Region 1 discs) and the only people making them seem to be the Chinese. Fortunately the players are so cheap that I regard it as a running cost.

Regards