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Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 13:02
So in pretty much total ignorance I come before the collected wisdom and experience of the forum and ask -what plinth ?

I have recently obtained a Garrard 401 to scratch that itch I had re an idler, but I don't initially want to go crazy on this, but I know the plinth makes a big difference to performance so I will have to invest a bit into this.

I was going to get an Old Road Audio plinth, but alas they no longer make them, at least for the foreseeable
future.

So I can go for a Layers of Beauty plinth, or an SMD Acoustics Type II 301/401 LE Plus Plinth, or a Martin Bastin one, are there any other options ? I know about North West Audio but their plinths, while I am sure are worth the money I think are expensive. I really don't want to go over £900 and ideally less.

I have tried to find an actual site, or contact details for Martin Bastin and I can't find them, to see what he offers and how much - anyone got a link to him ?

I think a detachable armboard makes more sense as I want to try my SME 5, SME mounting Graham Phantom and my Triplannar mk7 so an easily swappable board will make that much easier, but does that compromise or serve the best sound ? I have read that isolating the arm from the plinth has benefits but the Layers of Beauty approach seems a bit flimsy - based on the photos I have seen. Is it ?

The quandary I am in is this, this was to be a relatively cheap experiment to see if I like and rate this approach, if not flog and move on. If I like, then sell the 401 I have off and buy an Audio Grail Sable 401 - assuming timing and availability tie in with my plans - and use the plinth I obtain for the first 401. Thing is though if I like I don't want to put the Sable 401 into a poor plinth.

All ideas gratefully received.

struth
30-01-2016, 13:23
Not convinced you need spend that colour of money to acheive great sonics but each to their own. A decent carpenter could likely make you one locally. Sizes etc you can take from what youve got and at least you will get it the way you want it and no transport problems.

mikeyb
30-01-2016, 14:23
Not convinced you need spend that colour of money to acheive great sonics but each to their own. A decent carpenter could likely make you one locally. Sizes etc you can take from what youve got and at least you will get it the way you want it and no transport problems.
Agree with Grant. Plenty plans available online too.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 14:24
Not convinced you need spend that colour of money to acheive great sonics but each to their own. A decent carpenter could likely make you one locally. Sizes etc you can take from what youve got and at least you will get it the way you want it and no transport problems.

I am sure Grant, but I don't know any, and I would prefer a pro made one, by someone who understands the art of Garrard plinths.

Ali Tait
30-01-2016, 14:25
They sound best in slate to my ears.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 14:25
Agree with Grant. Plenty plans available online too.

Which is all very well if you have the facility and wood working knowledge, I have neither.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 14:29
They sound best in slate to my ears.

In what way Ali ?

struth
30-01-2016, 14:33
Need to find someone whos going to Belfast and can bring Peters Collinson over. Does Russ still make them? .if i see one i will let you know Neil

struth
30-01-2016, 14:39
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMD-Acoustics-Type-II-Quartz-LE-Plinth-for-Garrard-301-or-Garrard-401-/191789233769?hash=item2ca7877669:g:eCEAAOSwnipWacx W
Over budget but nice

PaulStewart
30-01-2016, 14:47
Hi Neil,

The Old Road Audio, was in my opinion, a knock off of the genuine Garrard plinth from Loricraft Audio, with as I understand it a lesser quality system for suspension. I was told it used some kind of sorbathane block instead of the pneumatic squash ball isolators Loricraft use.

Hands up, I used to work as a consultant to the company and still do on occasion. But I have had several 301s and 401s in these plinths and I used one daily for 20 years. I still have 2 401s that my son has, in them. They can also service the deck, with the original Garrard factory equipment, and fit to the plinth for you, if required.

Ali Tait
30-01-2016, 14:48
In what way Ali ?

Slate is good at sinking vibration, you get a clean clear sound with great bass.

Heard 401's in several plinths, always sound best to me in slate.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 14:48
Need to find someone whos going to Belfast and can bring Peters Collinson over. Does Russ still make them? .if i see one i will let you know Neil

Cheers Grant. Layers of Beauty is Russ Colinson

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 14:50
Slate is good at sinking vibration, you get a clean clear sound with great bass.

Heard 401's in several plinths, always sound best to me in slate.

The dearer option :doh: I was afraid that might be the case based on what I have read so far.

struth
30-01-2016, 14:57
Cheers Grant. Layers of Beauty is Russ Colinson

I see that..yes i saw a nice one of theirs at about 600..Eucalyptus piono-ed... Only did 9 inch arms though

Ali Tait
30-01-2016, 15:04
The dearer option :doh: I was afraid that might be the case based on what I have read so far.

A stonemasons should be able to make one for you at a reasonable cost.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 15:04
Hi Neil,

The Old Road Audio, was in my opinion, a knock off of the genuine Garrard plinth from Loricraft Audio, with as I understand it a lesser quality system for suspension. I was told it used some kind of sorbathane block instead of the pneumatic squash ball isolators Loricraft use.

Hands up, I used to work as a consultant to the company and still do on occasion. But I have had several 301s and 401s in these plinths and I used one daily for 20 years. I still have 2 401s that my son has, in them. They can also service the deck, with the original Garrard factory equipment, and fit to the plinth for you, if required.

Hi Paul

Thanks for the heads up.

Loricraft's website needs a total overhaul as despite looking carefully I can find no info about the plinths they offer or the cost.

This is the only thing mentioning a plinth http://loricraftinternetshop.co.uk/page3.html and a cost.

Spectral Morn
30-01-2016, 15:05
A stonemasons should be able to make one for you at a reasonable cost.

I know, but I am happier to buy a finished item from a company that specialises in Garrard items.

Wakefield Turntables
30-01-2016, 15:16
Ignore a lot of the hype. Slate is expensive and dosen't really improve things. No birch ply is better than the last batch. Remember people will extol the virtues of their products for a sale. Find, the Moldovan plinth maker on eBay, he takes his time, he's cheap but you'll get 99% of any advertised birch ply plinth for probably only 25% of the cost. I've been down every route that's published on the net over the 5 years I've been tweaking mine and I think Birch is best. ;)

Guitarrero
03-02-2016, 00:17
... Plenty plans available online too.

Mike, would you please point me in the right direction for these 401 plinth plans? ... Thanks, Steve

mikmas
03-02-2016, 01:35
Mike, would you please point me in the right direction for these 401 plinth plans? ... Thanks, Steve

If you Google '401 plinth template' you will find a few ... like this one:

http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/p13.gif

http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/p13.gif

Guitarrero
03-02-2016, 09:22
If you Google '401 plinth template' you will find a few ... like this one:

http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/p13.gif
Thanks Mike ... will have a look....

Clive
03-02-2016, 10:08
I've found with my 301 that a birch ply plinth can be quite varied in sound depending on its construction. Rather like malt whisky, there's a big variation so make sure you pick one you like! Slate has a smaller window (less variation) and is more likely to sound "right". That's my experience FWIW.

Mika K
03-02-2016, 10:24
Russ Collison plinth sure are pretty and have lusted one myself for ages. Despite I have to vote for the slate option in this thread. Had some trial and error method moves with my 401 plinth at the time but was not satisfied to few different birch ply or other wooden options. Then went for the Slatedeck after friends recommendation and have been using that ever since without any issues. Based on comparison with other 401 in birch ply plinth I'm tempted to say that perhaps slate is not just as lively sounding option as birch ply might be, but at least for me the quieter and blacker background, added clarity and that greatly improved bass performance are things that are hard to find in other solutions.

Of course there are also other stone options out there but I've been told that most of then are too hard for plinths not having similar impact to the sound than slate, unless using very high mass plinths. Just like with the birch ply one. Also Corian(?) might be one option to think off..

Ali Tait
03-02-2016, 11:43
Agree, the way slate is formed makes it ideal for this purpose.

Andy831
04-02-2016, 10:13
Thanks Mike ... will have a look....

Steve if you need plans and you have a print shop locally I can send you a plan for the 401 or 301 in pdf format that you can print out at 1:1 and use as a template.

Spectral Morn
04-02-2016, 16:50
Still thinking about all of this.

Guitarrero
04-02-2016, 17:19
Steve if you need plans and you have a print shop locally I can send you a plan for the 401 or 301 in pdf format that you can print out at 1:1 and use as a template.

Thanks Andy,

I'm OK for the usual cutout template, but was looking for actual plinth plans - either stacked ply solid plinths or the Loricraft style suspended setup, not sure which way to go yet... still researching pros & cons.

Found this 301 version plan showing each of the contour layers, and ideally would like to see similar for the 401.

http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/Garrard/301template_1.jpg

http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/Garrard/301template_1.jpg

Spectral Morn
05-02-2016, 12:57
I am clear now on where I am going with this now. All will be revealed after it comes together and I am clear in my thoughts after listening.

Spectral Morn
10-02-2016, 11:30
Next step taken, 401 re boxed, and dispatched :D

struth
10-02-2016, 11:47
Keeping this pretty tight Neil ;)

Spectral Morn
10-02-2016, 12:34
Keeping this pretty tight Neil ;)

Indeed.

struth
10-02-2016, 13:02
Duck, tight, ass and water come to mind :) nice one and sure it'll be grand

Wakefield Turntables
10-02-2016, 13:08
NWA or audiograil restoration? :scratch:

take5
10-02-2016, 13:37
Steepletone extending their talents. :scratch:

struth
10-02-2016, 13:51
Sheraton :)

A.Grail
02-04-2016, 10:16
Choose a material which is stiff, and has mass, and intrinsic damping.These materials include:

material damping factor

bamboo block 0.200

chipboard 0.228

oiled olive wood 0.273

panzerholz 0.6-0.9

aluminium composites

with polyalkenes 0.240

with mdf 0.218

acrylic/mdf 0.315

polyester resin filled with

bentonite clay 0.618

The two stand out materials are panzerholz and polyester resin filled with bentonite clay. However, composites also look quite good, as does the bamboo block.

Another property of materials is the acoustic impedance, that is, how easily sound passes from one material to another. Nearly all the data available is concerned with supersonic frequencies of sound, typically 5 MHz, so not really useful in the audio range. However, it does suggest that getting sound from one material to another seems to be dependent on their respective acoustic impedances, easily calculated as:



Z0 = p x c where Z0 is the acoustic impedance,
p is rho, for density,
c is the speed of sound through the material [longitudinal wave velocity]


Some acoustic impedances of common materials: Z0 in N·s/m³ /106



material Z0 [MRayls] Material Zo [MRayls] material Zo {MRayls]

aluminium 17 araldite 4-13 all plastics 1-4
brass 37 brick 15 all wood 1-4
copper 42 concrete 7-10 except cork 0.1
cast iron 37 glass 10-15 carbon fibre 30
lead 25 granite 27
magnesium 10 marble 10
steel 45 slate 12
tin 24
tungsten 101


So to transfer sound from one material to another effectively may mean using materials with similar acoustic impedances, or, to hinder transfer, (as in isolation), choosing materials with very different acoustic impedances.

It seems as though a number of companies are using modern materials and constructions to advance plinth building. Of note are Clearaudio who use an aluminium/panzerholz/aluminium sandwich construction. Another company is Artemis Labs who use a resinated bamboo/ebony/resinated bamboo sandwich to do the same job.
It's good to see professional companies using modern thinking with materials for plinths.

(Source: http://qualia.webs.com/plinthbuilding.htm)

struth
02-04-2016, 10:24
Panzerholtz is hard stuff... Has great anti resonation properties

A.Grail
02-04-2016, 16:19
Panzer is indeed tough stuff and a little irksome to work with in addition to being rather expensive. Of the measured materials listed Bamboo is probably the best at a low cost. The best performance is the Bentonite impregnated resin which forms an integral part of the Cusworth plinth.

Spectral Morn
02-04-2016, 17:47
Panzer is indeed tough stuff and a little irksome to work with in addition to being rather expensive. Of the measured materials listed Bamboo is probably the best at a low cost. The best performance is the Bentonite impregnated resin which forms an integral part of the Cusworth plinth.

Thanks Matt for the info but I lack the skill or workshop to do anything so I did a lot of reading, spoke to those in the know - not yourself simply because I got the impression you do your thing but don't really involve yourself in much beyond that, if I am wrong in that impression then I apologise - made a decision based on another convo and approached more qualified folks than me. Further discussion and a design, with flexibility is under way. I should have my 401 back in around about two weeks.

If I like what I get back then I may take the plunge and get one of your Sable 401s (if and when you put one up for sale), tempted by your currently listed 301, but again based on reading between the lines I think the 401 will sit better in my set up than a 301.

Oh yes, I have agreed a non discloser agreement re this plinth, until after I have got it and evaluated the whole item. Realise I am a tad ignorant of Garrard matters, but as a complete item I can evaluate it against my current turntables and others I have heard.