PC Media Players

[sastusbulbas]

Well I got sick of it all,

Bloody Apple and it's "new file definition update thingimy shite" iTunes media quadruple your files and hog the bandwidth player.

I have an up to 20mb connection which seemed to slow down to 1mb whenever iTunes was working.

I got sick of multiple music files appearing and album art dissapearing on Windows Media 11, and Media Monkey.

And also got sick of iTunes missing artwork which Media 11 had no problems finding, and every so often when updating or refusing an update for iTunes most of my music dissappeared. And having to upload the music folders for oter users on the PC, I ended up with two iTunes folders and my own Windows folder containing all the same music, though my iTunes would not show all my albums today after I refused the second update of the week.

As for MediaMonkey, well I got sick of that as well, incomplete album content, wrong and missing art work, and regardess of me trying to configure it to only read Flac and access my Flac folder, it having to import incomplete and other various bit rate albums from my music.

And VLC is just pathetic, with a Crap interface.

All I wanted was fancy album artwork to flick thru as iTunes, and an atractive reasonable quality Media player for 24bit Flac.

[Filterlab]

Buy an Apple computer then. It's no surprise that iTunes doesn't work on a PC - nothing does! The duplicate folder thing (again) is a PC only issue as PCs seem to have trouble changing address points when a file is moved, why I have no idea, it's a simple thing to program. My iTunes runs completely flawlessly, never had a moments issue with any element of it.

Stop kidding yourself that this is all a problem with the applications, put them on a decent platform (i.e. one that does runs each application in its own temporary RAM partition) and you'll be amazed at how well they work.

[sastusbulbas]

Duh :),

I have Mac's also (two MAC'sl and Two PC's at home, many MAC's at work), as I said though, Apple Media on my PC had it's own problems with missing artwork and dissappearing music and compatability.

As for a working platform? The problem WAS iTunes, IE if I remove iTunes and it's requirement for duplicate iTunes music folders, for me and my wife's user acounts, music on Media 11 gets it's art work back and does not have double or triple track listings.
And I do not get system slow down when iTunes is attempting to update and add art it cannot find.

I have multiple music folders on this old PC with multiple user accounts and Media player has no problem with this. Apple iTunes does, it requires folders to be added, creating extra folders which for some reason do not always stay as they should, today I found around 70% of my music had dissappeared from a folder I had added last week.
This apeared to happen after I clicked "no" on an newer version of iTunes update (I saw album and art disapear from the iTunes display).
iTunes had only upgraded to a newer version a week ago.

If I do not run Windows Media, I still have the same problems, IE iTunes stubborness and system hogging big brother act.

I must be running limited sofware and hardware too? As everything else works fine on this old PC (XP Pro), same cannot be said for the MAC upstairs of the same age.

Will probably again add codecs for Windows Media 11 to play Flac, and hope Windows doesn't delete them at the next update.

Like you have said before you find Mac's better, I like both Mac and PC for different things, I do not find Mac's better, I use both daily and prefer PC and the XP Pro operating system interface, and one can certainly put together a better specified PC for the same money. Operating systems are a different issue, with my two prefered OS's being XP Pro and Tiger, I am a little behind due to my not liking Vista or having a suitable Mac I deem worthy of Leopard.
I myself have not had compatability or hardware issues with PC and have happily upgraded this that and everything on the PC with no problems.
Never been able to do as much with MACs due to limited upgradeability.

As for operating systems and compatabilities, well I don't see many issues or failures, the PC runs fine with iTunes off, Media 11 has no problems with iTunes removed, I save space and do not have to remove 500 odd registry items again due to iTunes.
Personaly I see iTunes as the problem not the PC. Media Monkey and Winamp have no such issues as iTunes, and they do not need to create duplicate folders for music. And the PC has no problems with me swapping files from different folders and drives for my music.

My issue with Media Monkey was its refusal to only access my Flac folder, and its duplicate file issues due to iTunes. With iTunes removed Media Monkey sees no duplicate music tracks (but is still crap with album art). This was not a PC problem but software issue.
Instead of using Media Monkey I have configured Winamp for Flac only Folders with no issues.

VLC has no issues. (Just a poor interface)

So as far as I can deduce, Apple have not been able to produce a suitable media player version of iTunes for a PC platform. My PC was not the problem, Apple's software was.

I currently do not have any means of playing Flac media on my Macs (as all my Flac files are on PC at the moment), are you using 24 bit Flac files on your Mac?

;)

[SteveW]

Ha...just goes to show, one should never assume anything and thankyou for the well presented analysis of your issues Sastusbulbas.
I have switched all our machines at home to Macs, but maily because all the software integrates so well and as a family we need a broad range of media software.
However...I really would like to play FLAC files on these machines. I'd also like Linn to have their digital media players to work on MACs...but there seems to be issues here in a PC dominated world.
I've ben having this discussion with a Linn dealer for months now, who is a big MAC fan...bit has discovered that the best software for ripping

here is a quote from him

....."Much as we both love Apple so far I've not heard as good as results from OS X ripping software (MAX) as from the PC ripping software (EAC). Unfortunately, the differences are audible. Whereas it can be shown that a downloaded WAV files sound better than their FLAC equivalents through MAX they same is not true if you use EAC on a PC...."

To get round the the problems of Linn kit (including the model which is being launched this week at a £grand).. one suggestion is to load Windows OS on to a MAC with Bootcamp, and use this. My old G4 won't be able to do this.
What I was hoping to do, is use an ipod touch to remote control itunes and play through my normal hi-fi system. Linn system is to link your PC/ hard drive NAS via network cable to a DS machine, and control this with a Nokia media player. It does sound awesome, especially the £10K Klimax DS !!
However, the new model (sneaky DS or something) is suppossubly better than the Majik CD player which in its own right is a great machine.

So...maybe my support of all things Apple isn't as strong today as it was a week ago ;)

[Filterlab]

So as far as I can deduce, Apple have not been able to produce a suitable media player version of iTunes for a PC platform. My PC was not the problem, Apple's software was.

And yet oddly iTunes on my works PC runs without issue (aside from the usual PC disaster area of crashes, hang-up and that stupid daft egg timer). :confused:




I currently do not have any means of playing Flac media on my Macs (as all my Flac files are on PC at the moment), are you using 24 bit Flac files on your Mac?

Yes actually, from this weekend using pro audio software I am now ripping at 96Khz 24-bit.

[sastusbulbas]

And yet oddly iTunes on my works PC runs without issue (aside from the usual PC disaster area of crashes, hang-up and that stupid daft egg timer). :confused:

They all suck, wind up radio is the future! Maybe :confused:
My own problems were no actually that bad, nor did I put any effort into solving them. I have removed a lad of media players from the PC due to mediocre fits of diddle daddle that irritate for no reason other than being bored. And my Macs need to be dusted off and fitted with new hardware n stuff I guess.

Yes actually, from this weekend using pro audio software I am now ripping at 96Khz 24-bit.

So have you now got software that allows you to play Flac files directly through iTunes? What Pro Audio software are you using?

For some reason I just thought there was a limit on optic out capability? Must have been in the Co-ax or optic thread?


Steve

[Ashley James]

I can't see why anyone would want to play Flac files, what's wrong with AIFF or Lossless?

On the Pro Audio side all the high end work is done with Macs and everyone agrees that there Software is the best, so if this is the case, why would anyone want a Windows based system anywhere near the music. A fraction of our customers use PC's for theirs, yet all the issues have come from them and none from MAC.

We use Optical Digital for everything although it's just as easy to pop a coaxial socket in instead, but since we don't know what it might be connected to, we think Optical is wiser. When we first announced ADM9s, we had quite a few here with expensive CD Players, anxious that the internal DAC (it's the one in the £10K Linn Server) might not be as good on an Optical lead. None were better, most worse and one comparable. It's the same with our CD player, you can't hear a difference.

That was over a year ago, then visitors started to bring PMP's instead and more recently, they just bring memory sticks and we use iTunes and very occasionally VLC. Attitudes are changing and the technology is progressing. Hifidelio produced an excellent Music server, for a time it was the Lion's share of Hi Fi sales across European shops and then it stopped and they went bust, it was a passing fashion because people realised they were better off with a computer and Apple had exactly what they wanted.

I think that sometimes the simplest solutions are best.

If you read Sound On Sound there are four pages in each edition devoted to untangling Windows issues and none on Macs, which have the larger share of the business by a
country mile. I asked Paul White about it and he explained that there's loads of free Music software for PC's and therefore lots of cheapskates use them.

I'm sorry to labour this but why does anyone need a Music Server from a Hi Fi Company when NAS storage devices and any old PC under stairs will do it.

We're slowing switching to MAC's, I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro, I have an Apple TV in one room and Airport Express in others, and I have an iMac with a 700 Gig Hard Drive at work.

I can't believe that any software could be better or more user friendly than Front Row and iTunes and I love the fact that it incorporates Movies and Photos as well.

[sastusbulbas]

I can't see why anyone would want to play Flac files, what's wrong with AIFF or Lossless?

Hi Ashley,
Mainly due to very high quality free FLAC 24bit downloads being available.

On the Pro Audio side all the high end work is done with Macs and everyone agrees that there Software is the best, so if this is the case, why would anyone want a Windows based system anywhere near the music. A fraction of our customers use PC's for theirs, yet all the issues have come from them and none from MAC.

My own issues were as much stubborn set up and boredom, I myself have had just as many issues with MAC's as PC's. Thing is it is a lot easier for an incompetent to mess with a PC and get things wrong, MAC's are idiot friendly ;)

We use Optical Digital for everything although it's just as easy to pop a coaxial socket in instead, but since we don't know what it might be connected to, we think Optical is wiser. When we first announced ADM9s, we had quite a few here with expensive CD Players, anxious that the internal DAC (it's the one in the £10K Linn Server) might not be as good on an Optical lead. None were better, most worse and one comparable. It's the same with our CD player, "you" can't hear a difference.

Debate and opinion mainly, computer/digital audio is I feel still developing, but has yet to be embraced properly. I personally am unaware of the £10k Linn being the be all and end of Digital replay.

That was over a year ago, then visitors started to bring PMP's instead and more recently, they just bring memory sticks and we use iTunes and very occasionally VLC. Attitudes are changing and the technology is progressing. Hifidelio produced an excellent Music server, for a time it was the Lion's share of Hi Fi sales across European shops and then it stopped and they went bust, it was a passing fashion because people realised they were better off with a computer and Apple had exactly what they wanted.

Maybe that should read "some" people realised "they" wanted. I personally did not find early solutions with MAC and PC or PMP to be better than red book CD replay. I also think CD replay devices took a back step at that time, and we had a slight shift in the consumer market and a new type of customer was born with the portable lifestyle product which Apple successfully recognised.
Though attitudes are changing and technology progressing in this new area for this consumer target.

I think that sometimes the simplest solutions are best.

I agree at times simplicity is very enticing. :)

If you read Sound On Sound there are four pages in each edition devoted to untangling Windows issues and none on Macs, which have the larger share of the business by a
country mile. I asked Paul White about it and he explained that there's loads of free Music software for PC's and therefore lots of cheapskates use them.

I think MAC's have only in recent years gained in popularity and numbers, and maybe there is something to be said for expensive limited amounts of upgradability and software ALA MAC.
Again reasons for problems with PC are as you just mentioned, overall they are far more popular and have far more software, far more free software, far more hardware configurations and many operating systems of dubious source, or neglected or interfered with.
Personally I think if we took every PC and counted every problem, correlated that with every MAC and every problem, took into account hardware availability and freeware issues, and did percentages. The problems would even out a little more than we probably expect.

I'm sorry to labour this but why does anyone need a Music Server from a Hi Fi Company when NAS storage devices and any old PC under stairs will do it.

Or any old MAC? I myself think they are trying to "sell" a new product, and address some issues standard computers have with operating systems and such having a slightly detrimental affect on sound, yet completely missing the point that everything apart from the media software which does bot have to rely on an OS is readily available for far less to any avid DIY computer constructor via internet and computer hardware stores. £170 buys you a 750 gig Media hardrive which you can load up via any computer and run through your TV and stereo. Pretty soon such things will be available with Touch type mobile handsets showing artwork etc.


We're slowing switching to MAC's, I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro, I have an Apple TV in one room and Airport Express in others, and I have an iMac with a 700 Gig Hard Drive at work.

Do you mean slowly? I myself would like a newer MAC and PC, (I have uses for both, and like to build simple things), I myself went back to PC when MAC could not do as I required, now use the PC less for that requirement, but still like both in different ways.

I can't believe that any software could be better or more user friendly than Front Row and iTunes and I love the fact that it incorporates Movies and Photos as well.

Again only recent developments which will hopefully develop even more, but again are only current lifestyle choices due to various OS limitations.



All only humble opinion of course, none of it matters as long as we get to see Jeremy Kyle on day time TV! :lol:

[lurcher]

Err, can someone remind me in terms of hardware what difference exists between a current Mac and a PC when it comes to using them as the source of a bit stream for music?

[Ashley James]

Macs are faster and easier to use, once you've got used to them. They use iTunes which is perfect for all your music and has a wonderful user interface. When you buy a Mac it comes with a pretty little IR handset and if you press its menu button, computer functions disappear and a Media program call Front Row replaces them. Then it's simply a process of scrolling through the menus for Movies, TV Programs, Podcasts, Photographs and you Music to pick what you want and play it.

Wi fi is always in a Mac and up to five rooms can be streamed to with Airport Express, Airport Extreme with Time Capsule automatically Backs up regularly, and you can also have an Apple TV to use with the TV. This stores Music and movies and can also be streamed to and it can access other people's Dot Mac Albums as well as your own and Flickr and other photo sites. It gets Youtube as well where there are many live concerts etc. If you want to play downloaded Flac, you use VLC and Airfoil which streams any player to Airport Express.

Most of the people who come to see us watch this demonstrated and buy a Mac as soon as they can.

Windows does it all too but it's a horrible slow stumbling muddle by comparison and PC's are ugly and noisy too.

Apple offer a fully integrated, nicely styled, user friendly system that an novice can set up himself and Windows are just an irritant by comparison. I believe all this has come about in the last year or two and is as a result of Steve Jobs visionary approach to home entertainment.

I'm gradually throwing out 2 year old Dells to install Macs.

Ash

[jcbrum]

Your question is too general. Which mac and which PC ? Compare the specs and that's how you find out. Hope this helps a bit.

My favourite methods of getting the music out are 802.11 wireless to an Airport express. This is equally valid on a Mac or a PC. Use iTunes or Airfoil with it. total cost £65.

[lurcher]

Your question is too general. Which mac and which PC ? Compare the specs and that's how you find out. Hope this helps a bit.

No, it doesn't I was assuming that given the amount posted regarding how much better the MAC than a PC, that it actually had something to do with the actual sound instead of just how they look or what the user interface is like.

Given that I use a Squeezebox with a hacked Buffalo Nas running Debian, I guess its not applicable to me :-).

Total cost about £320 including the storage system, I guess the £65 doesn't cover that?

I do use a PC to run EAC to copy the CD on in the first place though.

[Ashley James]

The Analogue outputs from Macs are always miles better than PC's but not as good as the best DAC's. They may well compare with a SB3, if I have time I'll have a listen.

We have customers with Mac Minis who reckon they are better than certain £1000 hi end CD players, which would never happen with PC's.

The SB user interface is better than a CD player but nothing like as good as an Apple Laptop, both have a digital output so "sound" the same, therefore it's how nice to use it is that matters.

I hope this makes sense.

Ash

[sastusbulbas]

Err, can someone remind me in terms of hardware what difference exists between a current Mac and a PC when it comes to using them as the source of a bit stream for music?

With a MAC you get whats in the tin pretty much, they are not the easiest to chop change and fit hardware to, and are quite limited in this respect.

PC's are only limited by windows OS and imagination. For less money you can pretty much buy and build anything which will outperform a more expensive MAC in benchmark tests and graphics. As an example 8 core Mac Pro's run at 3.2Ghz, for less money you can specify and build a similar PC with an Intel Skullrail Platform running two QX9775 cpu's running at 4.2Ghz, with far better graphics capability available for PC, and some would say more flexability available with the PC. Currently PC's can run faster than anything Apple has to offer.

Sound issues, there are more free media players and software, not to mention far more after market retail purchases of ancillary hardware and such for PC.

PC hardware usually is ahead of MAC due to the nature of PC's being buildable at home, overclocking and general performance gains PC users push for with games and performance and processor speeds.

The ONLY problem with pc is Windows operating systems. If there were as many MACs as PC's and as much variation in available hardware, software, and freeware we would see just as many problems.

Oh and one other thing MACs have going for them is the protected OS, not as easy to get into and mess up with tinkering or freeware.

For an example buy a couple of computer magazines for MAC, and PC such as Custom PC and the like loo at what hardware specifications and upgrades are available.

At the end of the day I feel its not the hardware, but operating systems and software which are making differences. Vista has to be one of the biggest jokes going for PC. I have not used Leopard, but do think it has had some patches and like Vista requires slightly more resources.

I myself have been sort of into MACs and PC's on and off for years, still have an old biege G3 in good running order, and PC of the same age, both without issues appart from dated hardware and software. Both are limited in regards to running new more advanced software, but more is available to upgrade the PC than the Mac on the second hand market.

To be honest I am not that clued up on package off the shelf PC's as I see them as a waste of time and money. I can build what I want to the spec I want for far less than off the shelf MAC's or PC's offer, but will happily use an off the shelf MAC due to its ease of use in prefference to a Dell. I think MAC laptops are more reliable than PC, and as PC laptops are limited in rebuilding or adding hardware I would happily have a Macbook. Shame the Macs cost more due to being fashionable.

I myself will continue to use both, but prefer to build my own PC's and use old Windows XP, as this is faster per pound and has far less issues than Vista.

None of which has anything to do with sound quality, as Ashley has noted with digital being digital, but I do believe MACs have better audio than most off the shelf PC sollutions, though no one has substaniated this by compariing with Asus and such related motherboards available for PC. (Some PC Motherboards are rumoured to be quite capable, but let down by Windows, which can be bypassed with the right media software. Maybe HiFi world will pick up on computer audio again some day?)

This PC has been running without fault since 2004.

[Ashley James]

Yeah yeah yeah and they look crap and are bloody foul to use. Here is a typical view of Windows these days. Everybody hates Windows!


http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9076698&pageNumber=1

[sastusbulbas]

Yeah yeah yeah and they look crap and are bloody foul to use. Here is a typical view of Windows these days. Everybody hates Windows!


http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9076698&pageNumber=1

Yeah but as I said, it's the operating systems which are making these things work, not to mention the way Windows allows it's OS to be corrupted unlike Apple.

When you buy a MAC its the operating system that makes it worthwhile, and I believe thay have made an effort to control what is available and compatable, which along with less being available due to PC being more popular all these years, has led to a very robust OS, unlike Windows OS, who have messed up, with many PC users finding old 32bit XP Pro far more reliable and faster than Vista Premium.

As for looks you can make a PC in any form you like, even identical to MACs, there are hundreds of cases to choose from?

And foul to use? No not rally that bad, Different from MAC's but no better or worse, just a matter of taste.

;)

[Filterlab]

So have you now got software that allows you to play Flac files directly through iTunes? What Pro Audio software are you using?

For some reason I just thought there was a limit on optic out capability? Must have been in the Co-ax or optic thread?

Steve, importing is different to outputting. I'm now importing at 96Khz 24-bit and have been outputting at 48Khz 24-bit since I addressed the settings (although not yet at 96Khz due to the Toslink limit on my DAC). ITunes doesn't allow 24-bit importing, but I'm not using that.

[Filterlab]

And I'm not using FLAC either, AIFF only which is completely and utterly lossless and always has been. That's why studios and professional audio editing software all use AIFF.

[Filterlab]

Macs are faster and easier to use, once you've got used to them....

Which takes about ten minutes from the first time ones turns on a Mac.

[Filterlab]

...This PC has been running without fault since 2004.

Ahh, you're the one who has the PC that works without fault. :lol:

You're a lucky guy Steve. ;)

[Ashley James]

One of the things that's pissed me off with PC's is that after about eighteen months, they slow down and throw a series of irritating faults. I used to pay and IT consultant to get me a 3 week reprieve followed by worse problems until I buy a new one.

Mart has an Asus Eee and he removed Linux from it and put a stripped down XP in it. The battery lasted a quarter as long and it was horrid to use by comparison with the Linux program it came with.

I know Windows has devotees but I detest everything about it.

All I have to do is demonstrate my iMac at work and people are amazed at the difference and they love the look of it. Nuff said - thanks Filterlab

Bigoted Ash xx

[sastusbulbas]

Ahh, you're the one who has the PC that works without fault. :lol:

You're a lucky guy Steve. ;)

LOL,

Well it is rather easy as long as your not an idiot. This thing is as simple as chips.

Most PC hardware goes together like Lego, and as long as you use proper software and keeps things simple you rarely get problems.

Like I said its OS limitations and freeware, software compatibility which causes many problems, being careful, protecting the OS and using verified and tested drivers and such usually leaves things smooth.
PC's have more of these issues due to popularity, and their OS is rather naked at times to corruption.
Not to mention users who dive in willy nilly with any old downloads and software...

As for ten minutes to work out a MAC, well I have been working around them for 10 years, and trained some new starts the basic workings of ours, and some cannot even operate an old system like 4D, never mind iTunes or Safari on the iMac's after a month. (though I doubt they would show any more intuition with a PC)

Thing is some are more comfortable with one or the other, both MAC and PC are pretty basic items when you open the case and understand what you can and cannot use, but I know my way around the insides and OS of a PC reasonably well enough, and can get certain things done with PC that a MAC cannot, so far.

PC's are simple to build repair and run. And tinkering is fun LOL

:)

[Ashley James]

It might be for you, but most people ate all that and hate the look of them even more although for the addicted try www.tranquilpc.com

Ash

Front Row is the program to use with an Apple IR handset

[nat8808]

It might be for you, but most people ate all that ....

They must have been hungry!

What's with the Mac evangelism that many Mac users have? Shall we call them Bondi Blue-earthers? I don't understand it, especially now that the internals of a Mac are yet another Intel-based product just like all the rest! It's a bit like when a hi-fi manufacturer makes a fancy product that sells at a high price only for people to later find that the internals are say a Pioneer DVD machine in a fancy box!

Of course, the OS is the difference but I personally wouldn't spend hundreds of pounds extra for the OS interface alone, especially when I don't spend so much time using the OS on its own - I use software made by completely different companies, e.g. Adobe, and even across the platforms THEIR user interfaces are essentially the same.

If you are a fan of Apple SOFTWARE then it makes sense that you would want to use Mac hardware - I would liken this to being say a Naim fan and buying an all Naim system, many people would tell you that you could get a better sound by mix and matching other stuff and at a better price but I doubt you would listen as it wouldn't take into account your passion for all things Naim!

Computers clogging up, becoming unstable etc are down to the user basically (by use behaviour, not necessarily BAD users). You will always find that some people's PCs always slow down over the year and others stay just as sharp as the day they first got them. My dad's is a case in point.. sort out his work PC with a new OS install, give it say 6 months and you will find it now takes 10 minutes to boot! There is always a load of new trial software on there loading on start-up and a new suit of security software picked-up cheap on a magazine or from the bargain bin at Tescos that is incompatible with something else.

My girlfriend's new iMac has started to slow after 6 months of standard use with no software added since new whereas my lower spec'd laptop is still the same as it was. My laptop was originally a corporate machine but I didnt bother reinstalling the OS, I just stripped out the cheap, me-too media software that came with it and installed reliable basics like photoshop, Zone Alram and NO VIRUS SOFTWARE! (Virus software always causes so many problems!). This to me says that Windows isn't necessarily the problem either.

If you look at most Mac user's computer habits, you will most likely find that they don't install software willy-nilly and tend to leave it as it was first set-up. They don't install free or cheap software off magazines because they are not tinkerers and anyway there's not so much free software around for the Mac. They also don't install firewalls or virus software because, a) they are not that way inclined and b) Macs are saved from these things due to it generally not being worth a hacker's trouble to write for a minority, non-corporate platform.

It's a misconception to say that Macs are exclusively used for Studios. There is some truth that musicians choose Macs but again I'd put this down to their image of being easier to use, being more reliable with many musicians not being technically minded - the myriad of different specs and different manufacturers of PCs really make the Apple brand [of PC] stand out as something simple, a brand they have heard of and feel safe with!

Studios use both Mac and PCs depending on what software they want to use! Yes, Digidesign's Pro-tools uses a Mac as the front-end but it is a HARDWARE system and as such doesn't rely on the computer much. There are other PC based systems in the audio and video world such as Sadie, Waveframe, Avid is for both PC and Mac and Pyramix is a PC only system now slowly gaining ground on Pro Tools. Carillon has been producing silent studio Widows-based PCs for years selling to studios all over the world, systems that remain reliable for years and years because they are left set-up as they were designed with specially selected hardware (as Macs are). Hans Zimmer has 12 odd Windows servers synced up running Gigastudio, a software-based sampler, to play his orchestral compositions - can't get anything on the Mac to do that. Nuendo, Cubase, Sonar, Reason are all PC-only music software packages and have massive followings. Emagic Logic used to be cross-platform with a massive following on both PC and Mac until Apple bought the company to make a grab for market share of the home-studio market FORCING all those who wished to use the latest versions to buy Macs! Digital Performer is only Mac based and has its following too like others..

Anyway, I have to say I'm bored writing this as you may be reading it...

To finish, I like Macs - it's refreshing to have the technical side of a PC hidden from view, and my nerdy side likes the idea of using a RISC based G4 or G5 for music - but they are now nothing special unless you are looking for a well styled lifestyle product and willing to deal out cash for such things. I'm not that kind of person, use PCs and buy old secondhand hi-fi (but have a blue/white G3 as a design object, sitting around unused).

Use Linux and I bet you will find a reliable, well designed piece of software to play your music with cover art, creating a music server out of a PC thown out on the street (probably giving the Linn server a run for it's money - bet that is running Linux too)!

[sastusbulbas]

I still play around with Apple, Windows and Linux OS's.

I still prefer the sound from a CD player/transport/dac.

I am again only using computer audio for convenience and not critical listening.