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StanleyB
30-09-2009, 09:53
And the good news is that we have now got the PSU approved:gig:.
Unlike some other DAC manufacturers, I like to get my power supplies developed around my product, instead of 'buying them in off the shelf from a third party'... That's the only way I can be satisfied that what I am giving my customers is what I would personally be happy to own myself.

There are about a hundred Caiman owners out there. So I am flying in 50 pieces next week for those people who bought a Caiman and would like to own the Caiman PSU. If there are more inquiries, I shall fly in some more later on, or ship them in by sea to save cost.

Now here is the deal: I am absorbing the cost of manufacturing for now. However, if you want one AND YOU OWN A CAIMAN, you'll have to fork out on the cost I incur for flying them in, paying import duty and VAT, and paying Paypal fee and postage & packing in order to send one out to you. The power cord on the TC-7520 PSU I shipped with the Caiman will also fit the Caiman PSU. So you'll only get the PSU. At the moment the cost is reckoned to be around £15 for European customers. I am not sure yet how much it is for outside Europe, but I reckon it will be around U$25 to U$30.

If you are interested, email me, quoting 'Caiman Power Supply from AoS' in the email header. No PM on this please. My inbox gets overloaded on a daily basis, so if I miss your PM you might get upset about missing the boat the first time round. My email address is on my website.

If you miss the boat this time round, I'll keep you on the list for the next round.

http://www.beresford.me/images/PSU/T13-420.jpg
Stan

Shanedudddy2
30-09-2009, 10:30
Just wondering, would the PSU be useful or suitable for 7520 as well? or would the difference be negligible or none?

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 10:38
It improves my TC-7520, but you'll have to pay the full price and await your turn after the Caiman owners have had a chance.

Fi-Wi
30-09-2009, 10:56
Great news, I placed an order.

I hope I wasn't too late. :)

steveinspain
30-09-2009, 10:58
..and if I can organize a delivery for me getting a Caiman, will that come with one of the new power supplies, or will it be a case of waiting until the existing owners have snapped up the corrent stocks ?
Any idea what it would add to the price of a Caiman ?
Cheers !

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 11:01
Great news, I placed an order.

I hope I wasn't too late. :)
Send me an email so that I can email you back the payment details.

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 11:09
..and if I can organize a delivery for me getting a Caiman, will that come with one of the new power supplies, or will it be a case of waiting until the existing owners have snapped up the corrent stocks ?
Any idea what it would add to the price of a Caiman ?
In order to be fair to future Caiman buyers I intend to run the same offer past them till the end of October at least. But since there won't be any additional postage cost when a Caiman is ordered, it will be just the cost I incur that I shall add to the price. I make that roughly £7.50 plus VAT and Paypal fee at the moment. But I won't know for sure till the end of next week when the goods have been delivered to me.

steveinspain
30-09-2009, 11:14
That sounds good to me, as it is looking likely that I will be in the UK early November !
Gives me something to look forward to this winter...
Thanks Stan

DaveK
30-09-2009, 11:28
Good Afternoon Stan,
I take it that the new PSU is an improvement on the one supplied with my 7520 (which I like to think I've had Caimanised by Tirna, but you may think differently ;) ). Are you making the new PSU available to such owners as I?
If so, on what terms, eg PX against the return of the original 7520 PSU?
Hope you're still keeping calm, listening to Caimanised music and taking the proper medication, i.e. the odd glass of red :) .
Cheers,

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 11:37
Good Afternoon Stan,
I take it that the new PSU is an improvement on the one supplied with my 7520. Are you making the new PSU available to such owners as I?
Only after the Ciamans have had a chance to feed first:sorry:. Many Caiman owners have been patiently waiting for their own PSU, and it is only fair and proper that they get a first crack of the whip.

Alex_UK
30-09-2009, 11:38
Great news, Stan - I've sent you the appropriate email, thanks again for the attention to detail, and awesome customer service.

DaveK
30-09-2009, 11:50
Only after the Ciamans have had a chance to feed first:sorry:. Many Caiman owners have been patiently waiting for their own PSU, and it is only fair and proper that they get a first crack of the whip.

Hi Stan,
I can live with that and I wouldn't really expect anything different from you. Just put me at the top of the post-Caiman shipment list - ignore the others who got in earlier - age hath it's priviliges (sp?), they tell me. :lolsign:
I've sent you the requisite e-mail ordering one - look forward to hearing from you.
Cheers,

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 11:52
OK Dave. You are number 1 on the B List:).

DaveK
30-09-2009, 11:55
OK Dave. You are number 1 on the B List:).

Cheers Stan and :ner: :ner: :ner: to everybody else!!. :lolsign: .

Covenant
30-09-2009, 11:59
Cheers Stan and :ner: :ner: :ner: to everybody else!!. :lolsign: .

And you had the cheek to give me stick about Mike's cable. You should be ashamed of yourself Dave....

DaveK
30-09-2009, 12:09
And you had the cheek to give me stick about Mike's cable. You should be ashamed of yourself Dave....

I am, Iam (not). I've got an excuse, old age pensioners are expected to act disgracefully aren't we? :lolsign: .
Anyway, I've got less time than you so I should be first, so I just don't care, :ner: - as I said, "Age hath it's privileges", problem is there are so few of 'em.
Cheers,

Radiotron
30-09-2009, 12:32
Email sent Stan.

Glad to hear the PSU is ready!

Dave Cawley
30-09-2009, 13:13
From a fellow manufacturer, not only does this seem like a good offer, but it is in the correct section for advertising!

Well done Stan!

Regards

Dave

Gazjam
30-09-2009, 13:55
Email sent Stan,
add me to the B list please!

(Not sure I like the idea of being under DaveK mind you......) ;)

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 15:07
Just to clarify a point raised via email:
The offer on the special price is for Caiman owners who are members of AoS.
In the case of AoS TC-7520 owners , you'll be expected to pay the full cost price, which is yet to be worked out. It all depends on the exchange rate on the day the goods clear Customs.
For non-AoS members there will be a small surcharge levied.

Also note some additional technical information that I shall be posting very soon in 'The Drawing Board' for those who are into modifying their unit. i.e. those with soldering skills.

I am aware that I could have put the PSU on my site at some ridiculous high price, as many "manufacturers" might have been inclined to do. But what's a few ££ amongst friends:)?

Gazjam
30-09-2009, 15:32
indeed!

DaveK
30-09-2009, 15:39
Email sent Stan,
add me to the B list please!

(Not sure I like the idea of being under DaveK mind you......) ;)

Na cum on Gaz, be honest, tha's bin in wurs places, am sure :lolsign: .
Cheers.

Gazjam
30-09-2009, 15:46
Hey I take exception to that...

besides, it was never proven.

DaveK
30-09-2009, 16:16
Hey I take exception to that...

besides, it was never proven.

Hi Gaz,
I love that verdict only available in the Scottish judicial system, Not Proven, we should have it down here, Not that I'm casting any aspersions of course but I always interpret it as, "Guilty as Hell, (or as charged), but unfortunately we can't prove it".
Anyway, being underneath can be quite enjoyable they tell me - memory is fading, but not much else :lolsign: .
Cheers,

Marco
30-09-2009, 16:39
Anyway, being underneath can be quite enjoyable they tell me...


Dave in his youth preparing to 'go underneath' with his latest conquest:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8599/fatwoman.png (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/fatwoman.png/)

Ursula (pictured) says: "Don't worry, babby, I won't flatten you......too much".

:lol: :lol:

Marco.

Alex_UK
30-09-2009, 17:23
I think we need "Wobbly Dave" back for this pairing! ;)

Marco
30-09-2009, 17:27
There's a special prize for anyone who can come up with the best suggestion of what 'Dave' is saying or thinking in the photo...

I'll kick things off with:

"Tha don't sweat much for a fat bird". :lolsign:

Marco.

Jonboy
30-09-2009, 17:29
"Come on love do a fart to give us a clue."

Marco
30-09-2009, 17:37
Apologies to Stan for the thread drift!!

Marco.

steveinspain
30-09-2009, 17:39
"See, my shave is smoother than yours.."

DaveK
30-09-2009, 18:06
Enough already !!!
Come on guys, be honest, is it any surprise to any of us that Marco is obviously familiar with the website he found the picture on, even to the point of knowing the 'models' by their first name. ;)


Until I typed the last sentence I had always thought that a model of or for anything was always smaller than full size - obviously not! :lolsign:
Stan, I'm appealing to you to demand that this thread gets back on topic whilst I still have some dignity left.
Pah, this younger generation - it was never this disrespectful in my day!!
Disgusted of Sheffield.

DaveK
30-09-2009, 18:09
There's a special prize for anyone who can come up with the best suggestion of what 'Dave' is saying or thinking in the photo...

I'll kick things off with:

"Tha don't sweat much for a fat bird". :lolsign:

Marco.

Hi Marco,
If the prize is worth winning I'll tell you what I was actually thinking!! :lolsign: .
Cheers,

Marco
30-09-2009, 18:12
Come on guys, be honest, is it any surprise to any of us that Marco is obviously familiar with the website he found the picture on...


Google is your friend, dahling ;)


If the prize is worth winning I'll tell you what I was actually thinking!!


It's a free 5-hour home consultation service from Steve Toy on the subject of optimal loudspeaker positioning :lol:

Marco.

HighFidelityGuy
30-09-2009, 19:47
Ooo, I almost missed this.
Email sent, thanks Stan.

Can't wait to try this out with my Caiman!

steveinspain
30-09-2009, 19:48
Does that include his flight to Spain - is so, I may withdraw my entry..

DaveK
30-09-2009, 19:51
It's a free 5-hour home consultation service from Steve Toy on the subject of optimal loudspeaker positioning :lol:

Marco.

Not good enough (sorry Steve ;) ) - my lips remain sealed (and that's NOT what I was saying to Ursula !! ).
Cheers,

Alex_UK
30-09-2009, 20:12
It's a free 5-hour home consultation service from Steve Toy on the subject of optimal loudspeaker positioning :lol:

Oooh Marco, you are awful, but I like you!

I nearly choked when I saw that (Ursulla probably choked too, just before she said "Dave, roll me in flour and aim for the wet spot!") :eyebrows:

DaveK
30-09-2009, 20:22
Alex!!!
Crude, rude but bloody funny !! :lolsign:.

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 20:41
25 pieces of the Caiman PSU have now been pre-ordered and only 3 Caiman DACs are left until the next batch if there are still any interests.

DaveK
30-09-2009, 20:56
25 pieces of the Caiman PSU have now been pre-ordered and only 3 Caiman DACs are left until the next batch if there are still any interests.

Hi Stan,
Being first on list B, does that mean I might have to start saving up sooner rather than later? - I don't want to give those younger rapscallions any opportunity to usurp my position at the top of the list :lolsign: .
Cheers,

steveinspain
30-09-2009, 21:15
Stan - please reserve me a Caiman and PSU - let me know via PM or email how to send money to put one on hold for me - I'll send this via email as well to be sure !

StanleyB
30-09-2009, 21:40
Hi Stan,
Being first on list B, does that mean I might have to start saving up sooner rather than later?
Hard to say right now. I'll have a clearer picture by the weekend I reckon.

steveinspain
01-10-2009, 05:51
Well, looks like I am a sort-of Caiman owner now - Stan has put one aside for me for when I can sort out a delivery - Fantastic Stuff !
Cheers All for the advice that has got me to this place and all without ever having even seen a DAC !

Alex_UK
01-10-2009, 06:10
...to this place and all without ever having even seen a DAC !

Well done Steve, pretty much the same for me, but don't worry, it won't hurt a bit - definitely the single biggest improvement in my system, especially opening up the possibility of hifi from a computer. Enjoy!

Fi-Wi
01-10-2009, 06:34
Interesting to see how many of us have blind faith in Stan('s PSU) since I can't recall reading in what way it improves the Caiman sound. :scratch:

Maybe a little hint Stan?

StanleyB
01-10-2009, 07:00
First of all, this is to inform you guys and girls (yep there are many female owners of my DAC as well;)), that the 50 subsidized pieces have now been reserved by 50 eager potential owners.

As for the point that Steven raises, I shallL
1. Send out a sample to a trusted Caiman owner and unrepentant box swapper whose reputation is spotless and unquestionable as far as testing and reviewing audio products is concerned.
2. Send out a sample to a trusted product builder and qualified electronic genius who has modified his TC-7520 to Caiman spec., and whose reputation is spotless and unquestionable as far as testing and reviewing audio products is concerned.

After they have given their two cents, people can decide if they wish to proceed with ordering the Caiman PSU.

Anyone who can guess who the two testers are, let me know and get a chance to win a freebie:smoking:.

NRG
01-10-2009, 09:12
Jerry (Jandl100) and Leo!

DaveK
01-10-2009, 09:30
Jerry (Jandl100) and Leo!

Nah!! Jerry (Covenant) and Leo. Stan, you know where to send the freebie :lol: .
Cheers,

Covenant
01-10-2009, 16:06
Very nice of you say Dave but my electronic knowledge could be written on a gnats todger.

leo
01-10-2009, 17:06
Nah!! Jerry (Covenant) and Leo. Stan, you know where to send the freebie :lol: .
Cheers,

trusted product builder and qualified electronic genius, your bloody joking! that rules me right out :lolsign:

Alex_UK
01-10-2009, 19:57
Jandl100 (Jerry) and Tubehunter (Duncan)

I'm right, aren't I?

StanleyB
07-10-2009, 10:46
Jerry (Jandl100) and Leo!
Hi Neal, PM me your address and I shall get your prize in the post:).

Stan

Fi-Wi
08-10-2009, 13:55
Now that one is bought, paid for and heading towards my address, I can't wait to read the reviews. :lol:

StanleyB
08-10-2009, 14:15
I am going through the list of the 50 Caiman owners who have taken up the offer of obtaining one at a fraction of the cost. It will take a day or two, so don't panic if you haven't got an invoice from me yet:).

HighFidelityGuy
08-10-2009, 14:18
Thanks Stan, I'll keep an eye on my inbox. :)

NRG
08-10-2009, 14:26
Hi Neal, PM me your address and I shall get your prize in the post:).

Stan

Whooohooo! Thanks Stan, I saw your email this morning and paid via paypal!

StanleyB
08-10-2009, 14:54
Whooohooo! Thanks Stan, I saw your email this morning and paid via paypal!
Darn:doh:, I forgot to add your winnings. I'll make a note of that and send it out in the next day or two. The PSU is already on its way to you though:).

roscoeiii
08-10-2009, 17:45
It will take a day or two, so don't panic if you haven't got an invoice from me yet:).

Thanks for that heads-up, yes that news is calming.

chrism
10-10-2009, 13:47
Hi Stan,

Have you any test graphs for the "top" power supply that you could share? Interested in how close the PS is to a zero volt test equipment graph over the frequency range. I have been looking at the Teddy PS for the SB3 over on PFM and was quite interested in the relative graphs showing linear / switchmode and Teddy reg supplies.

Regards

roscoeiii
11-10-2009, 01:15
Hi Stan,

Have all of the PSU invoices been sent? If so, that is quite the testament to AoS Caiman owners that 50 other AoS Caiman owners got in line before me in the mere 15 hrs between the announcement being posted and my e-mail to get in line for one.

Quite the excited bunch aren't we?

-Roscoe

Fi-Wi
11-10-2009, 07:36
Maybe a dumb question but does the Caiman psu need to break-in as well?

I know this subject is controversial but since the bigger part of this forum seems to agree that Stan's dacs DO get better after 200+ hours of playing time I dare to ask.

Hope to read some first impressions soon.

StanleyB
11-10-2009, 07:59
Not that I can detect. What it does need is about 15 minutes of warm up time from cold. It also improves LM4562NA based mods. I might consider offering it to TC-7520 owners who are using the 4562NA. It's a bit brutal in the bass with the THS4032 and LM4562HA.

Fi-Wi
11-10-2009, 08:14
Ok, thanks Stan.

Alex_UK
11-10-2009, 19:15
Anyone got any recommendations for a third party figure 8 mains cable to connect to the new PSU? Or is it not worth bothering with?

Also, probably a question for Stan - is the original PSU (the one we are now replacing) the same as the one for the 7510, and/or 7520, and if not, would it be an upgrade for either of those? (i.e. I am trying to establish if the old Caiman PSU would be of use to a 7510/20 owner as an improvement?)

StanleyB
11-10-2009, 20:36
Anyone got any recommendations for a third party figure 8 mains cable to connect to the new PSU? Or is it not worth bothering with?
Are you implying that my mainslead is inferior in any way?

Marco
11-10-2009, 20:45
Never come between a man and his mains lead ;)

Marco.

Beechwoods
11-10-2009, 20:57
It might be worth filing some notches into the stock plug though. Just in case.

Themis
11-10-2009, 21:05
In my case, I will optimize Stan's mains lead with (a glass of good) wine... :o

Alex_UK
11-10-2009, 21:33
Are you implying that my mainslead is inferior in any way?

Most certainly not, but then neither do I suggest (or imply) to Ken Ishiwata or Mike Creek that their mains leads are "inferior" - that doesn't stop me wanting to experiment with alternatives and (hopefully) finding an improvement though! - is that any different to op-amp experimentation? Or placing the Caiman on a granite placemat like I did today? (a bargain from Tesco at £6 for 2 - very suitable size for a StanDac, too - though yet to try any proper listening.)

How about the other part of my question Mr. B? ;)

Alex_UK
11-10-2009, 21:38
In my case, I will optimize Stan's mains lead with (a glass of good) wine... :o

Ah, and there was me thinking it was the pieces of foil I taped to the mains lead that was making a difference! You may have hit the nail on the head Dimitri - snake oil is actually a very nice South African Red normally £8.99 but currently an amazing £10 for 3 at Sainsburys... (UK supermarket, if it gets lost in the translation! :) )

Gazjam
11-10-2009, 22:36
Asda:
Snappygum:
3 for a tenner.


As good as any wine up to £20 a botle.
(I've A/B tested it - Hic)

Seriously a great wine.

Alex, thanks for your PM the other Day, business as usual for me mate.

Alex_UK
11-10-2009, 22:47
Asda:
Snappygum:
3 for a tenner.

As good as any wine up to £20 a botle.
(I've A/B tested it - Hic)


Several times, I hope! :drinking:...:drunk:


Alex, thanks for your PM the other Day, business as usual for me mate.

Cool, good to hear. (Those of us who's lives have "just begun" have got to stick together! ;) )

Covenant
12-10-2009, 06:46
Asda:
Snappygum:
3 for a tenner.


As good as any wine up to £20 a botle.
(I've A/B tested it - Hic)

Seriously a great wine.




Wow-thanks for the tip Gaz, I will give that a try.

huric9
12-10-2009, 15:01
Stan

I just ordered a Caiman last Thursday and it will probably be delivered today. Would this include the new PSU?

Sincerely

Rodney

StanleyB
12-10-2009, 15:12
I just ordered a Caiman last Thursday and it will probably be delivered today. Would this include the new PSU?

It depends on the invoiced amount and what it said on the ordering page when you ordered. Have a look at your Paypal payment details, since that will clearly state which power supply you paid for.

huric9
12-10-2009, 15:28
Stan,

Its says this:

Special Edition DAC
Item Number TC-7520SE Caiman , Caiman Power Supply: UK 3-pin plug


Best regards,

Rodney

StanleyB
12-10-2009, 15:57
OK, that's sorted then:).

Labarum
12-10-2009, 17:25
Stan


I have just read your webpage on the Caiman power supply

You say

"The Caiman power supply delivers an additinonal (sic) 3Volts Peak to Peak of supply headrooom."

Why do you quote a peak to peak value? Isn't that a bit like those amplifier manufacturers quoting "music" or "peak" power for their amps?

I guess the Caiman supply has an output about 1v RMS higher that the one you first supplied.

Peak to Peak is just technobabble to the non-technical and makes the techies smile at the claim.

I'm sure the product is better served by a more straightforward text.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude

HighFidelityGuy
13-10-2009, 11:43
My Caiman PSU arrived a few minutes ago. :eyebrows:
I'm looking forward to trying it out on my Caiman when I get home.
Until then I'll try to run it in a bit on my standard (lightly modded) 7520 that I now use with some iGrado's at work.

On the subject of voltage, I've just compared both PSU's on a shiny new Fluke true RMS multimeter. The old PSU measured 12.07V and the new PSU 15.57V. So I'm seeing a 3.5V increase. I'm no electronics expert but I think RMS figures are only really stated for AC signals as they are a waveform. As DC is just a potential difference it's measured as peak to peak as you've just got fixed 0V and 15.57V lines. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject could comment on this. :)

Alex_UK
13-10-2009, 12:39
My Caiman PSU duly arrived this morning and installed for about 3 hours, so well warmed up. Now got the house to myself, so will give it a good thrash, but initial feeling is there is definitely an increase in bass weight - and generally just more of everything - an already ace product subtly improved and refined - thanks again Stan. (We'll see if the silver plated Figure 8 lead I've ordered makes any more difference when that arrives ;) )

Labarum
13-10-2009, 12:43
Perhaps Stan means the Caiman supply allows the analogue circuitry more room to swing, but he has written a very odd sentence.

He will no doubt speak . . .

Radiotron
13-10-2009, 13:48
My Caiman PSU duly arrived this morning and installed for about 3 hours, so well warmed up. Now got the house to myself, so will give it a good thrash, but initial feeling is there is definitely an increase in bass weight - and generally just more of everything - an already ace product subtly improved and refined - thanks again Stan. (We'll see if the silver plated Figure 8 lead I've ordered makes any more difference when that arrives ;) )

Thanks for your quick review. The PSU looks (or sounds) promising. Can't wait to get mine. :)

SteveW
13-10-2009, 17:05
I'm still hoping.
Guessing Stans been a busy man.

HighFidelityGuy
14-10-2009, 10:09
Here's my quick review of the Caiman PSU from my listening last night:

First I think it's important to mention than I've made a slight change to the opamps in my Caiman. The standard LM4562NA is still in the headphone socket but I've swapped the line out opamp for the LME4970HA. This is the latest version of the LM4562HA which is the metal can version of the LM4562NA. I hope that makes sense. Personally I haven't noticed any specific difference between this opamp and the original but it's supposed to be better quality so I've left it in for now. Other than that my Caiman is standard.

I first let my system warm up for a couple of hours playing some TV with the old PSU in place while I cooked and ate my dinner. I then listened to a familiar track a couple of times to get a feel for the sound. The track I chose was "Are you in" by Incubus as it's recorded very well and has quite a lot of detail and variation. This was played off my media centre PC where it's stored as an uncompressed WAV file. My PC is currently connected to the Caiman using a Mark Grant 4M SPDIF cable. While I was doing this I'd plugged in the Caiman PSU into a spare mains socket to allow it to warm up.

I then swapped to the new Caiman PSU and played the track again a few times. At first I didn't notice anything obviously different. Then as I listened further I started to become aware that the trebble was some how more noticeable. It gradually became apparent that I was hearing more fine detail in the trebble which was an unexpected improvement, as I was expecting most of the changes to be bass related. So I then focussed on listening to the bass. While this didn't seem to have changed much it did seem to have a little more detail to it as well, with the leading edges of the notes some how being clearer. This helped the overall timing and rythem and I found myself foot tapping along to the beat. :dance:

By this time I was really getting into the music and started trying out some of my other favorite tracks. The same improvements were apparent on every track I played. There was also something extra going on that I couldn't put my finger on at first. After some more listening I realised that everything had a more silky sound to it, especially vocals. It was as if everything had been dipped in melted butter. Yum. :lol:

All of these improvements were fairly subtle, it wasn't as though anything jumped out at me but that's a good thing in my opinion. It was just as if all the good points of the Caiman DAC had been tweaked further to give a few more drops of loveliness.

I should also mention that the sound improved over about half an hour or so. So I guess the DAC needs time to bed in with the new voltage. Probably due to the capacitors charging up more. :confused:

Anyway, I found all the changes to be positive with no extra boom to the bass or anything harsh which I think some people found using the Maplin 13.5V PSU against Stan's advice.

Great work Stan, you've created a monster! :cool:
I can't wait to do more listening tonight. :eyebrows:

Labarum
14-10-2009, 11:39
My Caiman supply has just arrived. (Well it arrived yesterday while we were out, so we had to collect from the depot today.)

Installed minutes ago. Listening on Sony F1 headphones - full bodied sound and very pleasant. I will need to wait a few weeks to make a proper appreciation - till the unit is burned in and I have moved to Nicosia and installed my Quad and floorstanders in the bungalow lounge.

But sounds very nice on the headphones. Let's see what the next few days bring.

An observation: if the Caiman power supply kicks out 15v instead of 12v, a comparison should be made between it an another competent 15v supply. The 7510 sounds very different on 15v - but I would describe the 7510 on 15v as overblown, rather than full bodied.

Yes, with the new PSU the Caiman is full bodied without any hint of strain.

Edit after one hour: More "presence", whatever that means! Finding words for subjective qualities is always difficult.

Edit 2: Wow - that Piano made me take notice

Radio Swiss Classic
Jan Ladislav Dussek Klavierkonzert F-Dur Op.17
128kbps CBR, MP3 Internet Radio
http://zlz-stream11.streamserver.ch/1/rsc_de/mp3_128

Many members will know I turn to the piano to judge my system. The 128 KB/s MP3 stream I am presently listening to brought me up rather abruptly with a piano entry. Good stuff Stan. Radio Swiss Classic always seems to be better than the numbers would lead you to believe! Well I will have to wait a few weeks to hear this on my favourite speakers.


Thanks for the prompt service, Stan.

Labarum
14-10-2009, 14:27
Slightly off topic:

The mains lead for the recent Beresford power supplies is a fairly common item, and I have collected a few spares over the years. I have one cut down to two inches long with a new 13A plug on it (2A fuse). This I carry when taking my digital camera charger out of the house. I have been using it with the Beresford PSUs as it reduces the tangle of cables behind the telly! I don't need the length: I will cut another short mains lead.

bergdus
14-10-2009, 17:16
Got my PSU today (Dank Stan,)

first impressions, boomy not very defined bass, therefore missing the insane linear transparancy, closer to voices but a more narrow sound stage

listening both PSU,s A/B at this moment I do appreciate the non caiman psu more.

Maybe i'm to fast, to greedy, maybe it's also room acoustics,

regarding to Labarum's listening experience, it could be a matter of resetting on the new PSU. I'll leave the caiman PSU on the caiman for a couple of hours and then re-evaluate. Whatever happens I'm listening with a big smile since i've got the Caiman:)

Ron

StanleyB
14-10-2009, 17:22
Maybe i'm to fast, to greedy, maybe it's also room acoustics,
Send it back for a refund:). I have outstanding orders for them, so no need to let it go to waste.

Fi-Wi
14-10-2009, 17:38
Got my PSU today (Dank Stan,)

Ron

What?! Shame on TNT to deliver to Nootdorp first before De Bilt! ;)

Still in suspense.

bergdus
14-10-2009, 17:46
Sorry Bilthoven ;)

Stan, game is not over yet

Ron

Labarum
14-10-2009, 17:51
What?! Shame on TNT to deliver to Nootdorp first before De Bilt! ;)

Still in suspense.

You folk should be supporting Philips of Eindhoven!

Fi-Wi
14-10-2009, 18:49
Well Brian, that is not done in non-PSV crowds. :lol:

Gazjam
15-10-2009, 13:38
Wee question?

Stan said the Psu works well with the 7520, so I take it there's no problem running a 7520 modded with Wolfsen Dac and opamps at 15v either?

Ta.

chrism
15-10-2009, 19:57
I was wondering about running at 15v also. I thought that if the input caps were 16v the rule of thumb is to peak at 10% less. Certainly the 7510 is 16v but Stan possibly has uprated the 7520 and Caiman to 25v. I will have to take the lid off to have a look - and break Stan's special warning sticker!

Regards

bergdus
15-10-2009, 21:10
Got my PSU today (Dank Stan,)

first impressions, boomy not very defined bass, therefore missing the insane linear transparancy, closer to voices but a more narrow sound stage

listening both PSU,s A/B at this moment I do appreciate the non caiman psu more.

Maybe i'm to fast, to greedy, maybe it's also room acoustics,



Ron

So it was too fast, to greedy

Indeed a more fullbodied sound without being overblown. with a nice big stage and after a night of intensive listening, no sign of fatique.

So Stan, another opportunity missed to refund!!

Ron

Labarum
16-10-2009, 06:30
I return to an earlier point. Any honest appreciation of the Caiman Supply must compare it with the Caiman DAC running with another competent 15v supply. The extra 3v might alone be responsible for the improvement in the Caiman.

It may be an academic point, for Stan's Caiman Supply will probably cost less than a competing supply. I have an adjustable power supply lying around the house - I used it with the 7510 (at 12v), but will not risk trying the Caiman with it.

Others may be brave enough to try another 15v supply and report.

StanleyB
16-10-2009, 06:42
Anyone stupid enough to try out any such experimemt should make sure that the DAC is closed and the case securely screwed down. The power capacitor has a metal casing and in the event of it exploding the flying metal bits could form a danger.

Labarum
16-10-2009, 06:48
A timely caution Stan.

And two straight questions from me to you.

Does the Caiman supply output 15v?

If so, does the extra 3v account for much of the improvement noted between the PSUs.

StanleyB
16-10-2009, 07:03
Sorry Brian, but I am unwilling to answer that question unless other DAC and power supply manufacturers disclose the reason why their upgarded power supplies work better. I invested a lot of time and £££ in my products and would not be willing to save anyone any money in their search for a similar outcome in their product development.

Gazjam
16-10-2009, 07:45
Didn't someone earlier hook the PSU up to a scope and compare the voltage output of the New PSU with the standard one?

ZebuTheOxen
16-10-2009, 11:03
Just curious as to how much this new PSU would influence the output of the headphone stage?

The K701s need more current!

HighFidelityGuy
16-10-2009, 11:10
Didn't someone earlier hook the PSU up to a scope and compare the voltage output of the New PSU with the standard one?

Yep, I compared both on a Fluke multimeter. The results are a few posts ago but the gist is that my Caiman transformer outputs 3.5V more than my standard 7520 transformer. :)

The next bit is a general word of caution for everyone:

I would have thought that by now with all the info that's been stated in various Beresford DAC threads that everyone would have realised that Stan doesn't just pick any old transformer that's the voltage he wants from a catalogue. He's spent considerable time trying many different transformers to make sure the ones he offers match his products as well as possible within his chosen price point. Stan has mentioned on several occasions that the power supply circuitry inside the standard 7520 and the Caiman is different to that used in most products. He calls the design a "dual supply" because the external transformer and the internal power supply circuit work together in harmony. This means that the external transformer needs to be carefully chosen to match. Stan also mentioned that the transformers he uses are switched mode designs of a particular design that can handle the large reservoir cap in the internal supply. He also mentioned that most other transformers, particularly linear designs don't cope well in this situation and therefore make the DAC under perform. This is why he recommended against using 3rd party models like the Maplin transformer some people tried out.

As Stan has spent so much time and effort choosing the Caiman transformer, I would imagine he has made sure that it's regulation is good enough to make sure that the 16V reservoir cap is run suitably below it's rated voltage. Other off the shelf transformers may not be so accurate and could cause damage.

We need to remember that the sort of time, effort and care that Stan puts into designing his products and in choosing components is usually only found in products costing many thousands of pounds. I doubt many people would ever think about swapping the transformer supplied with a £3000 DAC for a £20 maplin job. :mental: So I think that unless you are very rich or supper good at electronics, or both, then you should only try performing mods that Stan recommends as being worth trying. :)

chrism
16-10-2009, 11:34
Yes it would appear to be madness supplying 15.5v to a cap rated at 16v. My current bench type linear supply is set at 13.8v (and I have measured it to check) and I use that with my Caiman and it sounds great (just not a fan of switchmode supplies I am afraid).

I have been checking out Avondale's regulators (TPR's) for a possible self build project as well and Les thinks he can tweak one for me to give 13.8v and around 4a peak. The cost will be significantly higher than Stan's special switchmode though and may not be as good!

I always test out my own supplies on a worthless well bodged TC7510 before plugging it into the Caiman as well just to double check.

Regards

SteveW
16-10-2009, 13:52
Back to the plot.
My power supplied arrived yesterday. Should have been a lot sooner...all my fault for not changing an old e-mail address I had originally in my AOS details. Thanks for sorting me out Stan.
Anyway...all I can say is that the improvements I heard straight from cold were not subtle.

More of everything..but especially clarity, instrument seperation, wider soundstage, bass detail etc.
In fact good thing I was listening to accoustic stuff initially, because when I put on Fun Lovin' criminals, it was though I'd plugged in a sub-woofer. But in a good way !

that was with an airport express. Then I tried out my Linn Ikemi fed through a co-ax into the Caiman.

Bloody hell.

Now I've had this set up since I got the Caiman, and initially the Caiman was more detailed than the built in dac of the ikemi, but a tad harsh. This has settled down with time.
However with the new power supply into the Caiman its elevated the ikemi yet again. Just spent several hours this morning going through CD's ...just to hear the improvements. I don't know how this new set up compares with Linn's latest offering, but have a feeling I've just saved myself at least a couple of grand. At some point I will get round to taking this and comparing it to a Majik, or even an Akurate. That will be interesting.

NRG
16-10-2009, 15:00
I've been running mine for close to a week now and listening to it today I could swear its improved... :scratch: :confused:

SteveW
16-10-2009, 15:07
Its because you took a sock off.

Gazjam
16-10-2009, 15:31
Call me mad (or Stupid?) but my Dacs running more than fine with the Maplin Switched mode PSU set to 15v.
Its the one that can be set to run at 12, 13.5 and 15V).

The Dacs not even warming up at all when compared to running it at 12v.

Doesn't have the same "in your faceness" that runing the 7510 had, but with the better Dac it has more body, more "bounce" to the sound, without losing any of the clarity, subtlety etc it had running it at 12v.
Also, I'm using a proper Foo mains lead with it, which may or may not make a difference too.

I WILL however pick up a Caiman PSU from Stan when funds allow, but I'm just sayin' I dont thnk my Dac will explode any time soon. (If it does its my fault Stan!)
Also note I'm making no comment on comparative sound quality, from comments so far Stans new PSU is a good 'un, as you would expect from all the work and £££ he's put into it.


Just an interesting observation I guess?

roscoeiii
16-10-2009, 17:18
Gaz,

I'll be interested in your thoughts on the differences once you've had a chance to A/B the Maplin and Caiman power supply.

My Caiman power supply arrived today, but I'll wait for it to break in before making any declarations...

But in the meantime, I will:gig:

leo
16-10-2009, 19:57
Heres a few impressions of the Caiman psu after some run in , For the lineout and variable out I've been using LM4562HA with MLC5/6 empty, NE5532P in the HA socket

Line out and variable out
First thing I noticed is bass notes are tighter with more kick to them, I can hear layers now to vocals and added weight in the upper mids, this was the only thing I used to find slightly lacking before with this dac so this was nice ,the sound as a whole is more tighter and solid, its something I appreciated more and more after going through various tracks

The HA has a little more grunt than before, I've not tried it with my AKG K701 because their still on loan but this was noticeable with two different pairs of 300R cans.

I think it may be worth going through the op-amps again especially in the HA section, the psu feeds the HA direct so is going to have some influence on performance, you may find some op-amps to be slightly better than they used to be with the original psu, certainly worth looking into;)

Heres a pic of the new Caiman PSU sat next to the original 7520, as can be seen its a little larger physically but still very compact and light, so far I don't hear any HF noises you sometimes hear with a SMPS.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/181.jpg

With it being smps it gives an instant start up of stiff juice more than capable of keeping the large power supply cap inside the Caiman topped up, a linear of similar current would be much more expensive and physically much larger

So does this PSU provide a worthwhile improvement? IMHO yes, its a no brainer for the price, nice one Stan:smoking:

leo
16-10-2009, 20:11
I've been running mine for close to a week now and listening to it today I could swear its improved... :scratch: :confused:

There should be caps on the output of the switching regulator so they probably burned in more after a little workout:)

StanleyB
17-10-2009, 08:33
it's a sad fact of life that the more I strife to develop a better solution at a lower cost, when compared to other companies, the more I get others trying to badmouth me or trying to cut up my market place. You only have to look at the cost of certain DACs in my sector in the market on sale in the UK, and then compare their prices in other markets around the world where I also have a dealer.
Then you have the case of those who have been re-chipping their TC-7520 and adding the Maplin PSU. By the time you add the cost of the upgrades up, they are more than buying a Caiman fully loaded.

chrism
17-10-2009, 09:54
it's a sad fact of life that the more I strife to develop a better solution at a lower cost, when compared to other companies, the more I get others trying to badmouth me or trying to cut up my market place.

Not certain where this is coming from with this Stan. All I have read is how great your designs are and at a great price as well. I thought that you enjoyed others trying tweaks and mods as well - isn't it half the fun?

Calm down young man.

Regards

Chris

Themis
17-10-2009, 10:07
So, the PSU is up and running.
Cold, after a few minutes of warming, it sounds better than the stock, but I'll need to get my amp back (it's out for the week) in order to give a more precise opinion.

The headphone amp part of the Caiman, in any case, benefits quite significantly from the PSU: there's a clear increase of musical "truthfulness", as if there were even more details coming up.

Thank you Stan for this upgrade. ;)

Gazjam
17-10-2009, 10:34
Uhm,
I only mentioned the Maplin PSU as it was what I was using already and I had read the 7520 could be run (and improved) with the new PSU running at 15.5v.

The Caiman PSU is actually cheaper than the Maplins one: an important distinction. Of course it makes sense to buy that, and I will, but I had a Maplins one ANYWAY, so just thought Id try it.
Turns out it works,go figure.

Alex_UK
17-10-2009, 11:20
Then you have the case of those who have been re-chipping their TC-7520 and adding the Maplin PSU. By the time you add the cost of the upgrades up, they are more than buying a Caiman fully loaded.

Except the Caiman wasn't available when they bought the 7520, and want to upgrade without starting from scratch?

Labarum
17-10-2009, 11:58
Then you have the case of those who have been re-chipping their TC-7520 and adding the Maplin PSU. By the time you add the cost of the upgrades up, they are more than buying a Caiman fully loaded.


Except the Caiman wasn't available when they bought the 7520, and want to upgrade without starting from scratch?

And as I carefully point out in an earlier post:


Any honest appreciation of the Caiman Supply must compare it with the Caiman DAC running with another competent 15v supply. The extra 3v might alone be responsible for the improvement in the Caiman.

It may be an academic point, for Stan's Caiman Supply will probably cost less than a competing supply. I have an adjustable power supply lying around the house - I used it with the 7510 (at 12v), but will not risk trying the Caiman with it.

ZebuTheOxen
18-10-2009, 21:21
Gentlemen.

For those of you who use headphones; How much do they benefit the sound?
I've experienced a bit of clipping on the very busy / transient parts of certain music with the K701s. I have a feeling a bit more juice might be 'enough' to fix it.
I've got a 'Caiman' 7520 (WM8716 / 4562NAs / 10uF caps + 36k resistors).

Thanks in advance :]

Labarum
19-10-2009, 07:14
For those of you who use headphones; How much do they benefit the sound?

If you mean how does the new power supply benefit the sound when using headphones my answer is, greatly.

The sound is more full bodied without being overblown, and I believe there is more detail to be heard as witnessed by the dying notes of the piano. (Dampers held off while a chord fades.)

I have noticed no clipping, but my Sony F1s are not as hard to drive as your 701s. I would be very surprised if you got anywhere near amplifier clipping - I would exceed the threshold of pain long before that.

ZebuTheOxen
19-10-2009, 09:42
That's pretty much what I wanted to hear, thanks!

It's only on very specific parts of music, and the K701s don't handle harmonic distortion very well anyway - which could be the cause.

Sounds like another step forward :]

StanleyB
19-10-2009, 11:08
The TC-7520 needs certain mods done to it in order to work with the Caiman PSU properly. I have agreed with Audio Flair that they can do the mods and include the Caiman PSU. That won't be before end of November though.

Covenant
19-10-2009, 12:06
The TC-7520 needs certain mods done to it in order to work with the Caiman PSU properly. I have agreed with Audio Flair that they can do the mods and include the Caiman PSU. That won't be before end of November though.

I have to say I am utterly pissed off about this.

StanleyB
19-10-2009, 12:29
It's an electrical safety issue. Some parts in the TC-7520 are not designed to take the increased voltage and current without overheating and possibly failing.

NickB
19-10-2009, 13:16
Hi Jerry

"I have to say I am utterly pissed off about this."

Why???

Nick

Gazjam
19-10-2009, 14:31
Dont know if its relevent here, but my 7520 runs just fine (great actually) at 15v.
Doesn't even warm up.

Maybe the extra 0.5v with the proper Caiman supply makes a difference I dont know.
No doubt Im unaware of a lot of things?

The only factor I can think of as being relevent (in terms of electrical/thermal stress on components) is the ammount of volts hitting the Dac from the PSU.

But hey - what do I know, right? ;)

Labarum
19-10-2009, 14:59
Dont know if its relevant here, but my 7520 runs just fine (great actually) at 15v.

I should be very careful, Gaz. If Stan says there is a safety issue (and he has said it twice), I would go back to 12v.

chrism
19-10-2009, 15:00
Hi Gaz,

I am learning too but my thoughts are:

It may be that although the new PS can supply 15v the Caiman only draw what it needs from it, basically like a reservoir. To work in this way it would need to have some form of internal tracking regulation (I think Stan may have called it a virtual circuit in a past note?).

It may be that this regulation differs in the Caiman and 7520 models and if so it would be best to check with Stan before going for it.

Just my thoughts.

Regards

Chris

ZebuTheOxen
19-10-2009, 15:10
I was going to ask if the work would be something that could be done by an individual, but I don't fancy touching power regulation even if it was.

I'll be interested in pricing when it's all ready to go :]

StanleyB
19-10-2009, 15:43
I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile:).

Covenant
19-10-2009, 15:53
Hi Jerry

"I have to say I am utterly pissed off about this."

Why???

Nick

Because we were assured that the only differences between the 7520 and Caiman were the Wolfson chip and the op-amps. Gaz will confirm this.

Gazjam
19-10-2009, 19:57
That was my understanding , yes.

(Quite happy to discuss in PM)

Gazjam
19-10-2009, 19:59
I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile:).

Will await the results of this with interest!

MAD AOS dinner...as in whacky, zany etc? ;)

StanleyB
20-10-2009, 08:40
I've got a 'Caiman' 7520 (WM8716 / 4562NAs / 10uF caps + 36k resistors).
10uF???? That's incorrect. Where did you get that information from?

ZebuTheOxen
20-10-2009, 09:15
Whatever the standard MCL 5 / 6 caps are.

I've just snipped, lifted the leg and soldered the 36k into series with it.

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2009, 12:02
Whatever the standard MCL 5 / 6 caps are.

I've just snipped, lifted the leg and soldered the 36k into series with it.

You need to swap the cap for a 100nF, the original one is 100uF I think:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/stanmod.jpg

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2009, 12:48
Because we were assured that the only differences between the 7520 and Caiman were the Wolfson chip and the op-amps. Gaz will confirm this.

I can't remember Stan ever saying that. :scratch: He said they were the main differences along with the MLC5/6 mods.

If you read this post HERE (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=55102&postcount=1134) you will see that Stan states (2 months ago) that he can't remember what other changes were made off the top of his head. So from that you can assume that other changes were made.

I'm sure I can also remember Stan saying that performing those main mods would bring the 7520 "close" to the performance of the Caiman. I'm sure "close" was the word he used. :)

Gazjam
20-10-2009, 12:54
Well,
I didnt want to highlight this aspect of the Dac in an open forum, or indeed my thoughts/info on it, but you feel free..
Not everythings publicly announced you know.

Anyways....moving on?
Gaz.






I can't remember Stan ever saying that. :scratch: He said they were the main differences along with the MLC5/6 mods.

If you read this post HERE (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=55102&postcount=1134) you will see that Stan states (2 months ago) that he can't remember what other changes were made off the top of his head. So from that you can assume that other changes were made.

I'm sure I can also remember Stan saying that performing those main mods would bring the 7520 "close" to the performance of the Caiman. I'm sure "close" was the word he used. :)

leo
20-10-2009, 13:26
The standard caps fitted in the 7520 MLC5 and MLC6 positions are 100 pico farad ceramics (going by memory)
For Stans mod it needs to be 100 nano farads or 100,000 pico farads (0.1uf) to go in series with a 36k resistor, 10 micro farads (10uf) is way too large

Ceramic and film caps are usually marked, 101 is 100pf and 104 is 100nf

leo
20-10-2009, 13:41
I edited post in sticky collection of mods in the diy room, just added a bit of text .

Ok , back to Caiman psu :)

Covenant
20-10-2009, 15:03
Leo could you just confirm what this latest mod does?

HighFidelityGuy
20-10-2009, 15:08
I'm putting my money on power regulation, probably using Murata regs. :eyebrows: At least I hope that's what it is as I've been interested in trying this for a while.

leo
20-10-2009, 16:58
Leo could you just confirm what this latest mod does?

Which mod?

chrism
20-10-2009, 17:24
Which mod?

I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile.
:scratch:

Covenant
20-10-2009, 17:46
I may be getting my wires crossed here (Ha). Post 137 shows a mod which you have added some text to. What was this mod for? I thought it was something to do with the new Caiman power supply as it followed on from that discussion.
Then there is the details listed above (post 142) about a revision to the 7520. If you can give any details great but if its a state secret we will sit on ours hands patiently.

leo
20-10-2009, 18:04
With the question being underneath my post about Stans 100nf+36k mod I thought he may have been asking about how that works.

I'd rather info came from Stan first tbh mate regarding anything not yet posted

leo
20-10-2009, 18:12
I may be getting my wires crossed here (Ha). Post 137 shows a mod which you have added some text to. What was this mod for? I thought it was something to do with the new Caiman power supply as it followed on from that discussion.
Then there is the details listed above (post 142) about a revision to the 7520. If you can give any details great but if its a state secret we will sit on ours hands patiently.

This is one reason I'd rather latest stuff came from Stan first, it is very easy to get wires crossed

Stan noticed this post which was in this actual thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=73666&postcount=132
Can you remember the 36k+100nf mod or bass mod as some people called it?
I just added a bit of text about this mod in the diy section to try and make it more clear about the value of cap which needs to be used, this mod is nothing to do with the Caiman psu ;)

Labarum
20-10-2009, 18:31
Mods? I just plug it in and listen!

Gazjam
20-10-2009, 19:20
I am meeting Adrian from Audio Flair this evening at the MAD AoS dinner. One of the options we are looking at is to install a couple of other mods at the same time that would raise the TC-7520 above the basic Caiman specification for those who still have their THS4032 or LM4562HA.
I am running one of those extra mods in a Caiman with the THS4032, and so is Leo.
I hope to also try it on the TC-7510 and if the results are worthwhile, I'll off it to Audio Flair to carry out for those interested. If I don't mention the results, then they weren't worthwhile.
:scratch:

Hope the mods work out -would be a good boost to us non Caiman owners who cant run the new PSU?

chrism
24-10-2009, 16:42
Gone and done it - adjusted my Maplins linear bench supply from 13.8v to 14.4v and plugged it into my Caiman.

Bit early to tell if any difference yet but the bass sounds a little more tuneful than I remember. The supply is set at around 3amps as well so well over the top.

If it goes bang I only have myself to blame!

Regards

chrism
26-10-2009, 11:33
Well it has not gone bang and I like the differences that I can detect (subtle though). The top end sounds smoother not that I detected any particular issues before and the percussion instruments sound a little weightier (drum bashes etc).

Very deep bass is more controlled and my speakers more able to deal with it without vibration!

It's definately a thumbs up from me unless Stan says don't be stupid!

Regards

Chris

Gazjam
26-10-2009, 16:16
I'd still try Stans PSU Chris, I know I am (eventually), and I'm runing the Maplin supply at 15V to better effect.
(no s'plosions as of yet!)

The usual money back guarantee applies so if its not any better - send it back!

chrism
26-10-2009, 18:11
Hi Gaz,

My maps linear benchy (XM22Y) is a stop gap but very surprised how good it is. I went for it as it's linear rather than switching. I have seen it on the scope and it's a bit noisy by more expensive comparisons. So, on this basis currently developing a new PS based on a nice well built traffo, couple of decent smoothing caps and a well built regulator.

Will let you know how I go on.

Regards

Chris

Gazjam
26-10-2009, 20:53
Cheers Chris,
be interesting how you get on!

I never really thought about the linear vs switcher for the dac, be interesting to get some other thoughts?

Covenant
26-10-2009, 22:15
Some time ago Stan said that linear supplies were not as effective as switched supplies but I cant remember the reason why!

roscoeiii
28-10-2009, 18:33
Some time ago Stan said that linear supplies were not as effective as switched supplies but I cant remember the reason why!

Which is interesting, because linear supplies are generally thought of as better than switching supplies for audio purposes. Just passing along what I've understood to be conventional wisdom on power supplies. But as usual, I'd have no problem seeing conventional wisdom turned on its head....:eyebrows:

leo
28-10-2009, 20:52
For most low current apps linear usually is better, less noisy etc, majority of regulated linear supplies based around say LM317 do not like to see high capacitance on the output though, they are slower to start up etc, performance tends to be worse imo if theres honking great big capacitors on the output, you've seen whats inside the 7520/Caiman dacs for the input supply;)
A SMPS with a faster start up capable of driving heavier loads is far better suited at keeping that large cap topped up, Stans gone through various options and offered something proven to work very well with these dacs at a great price

This is not to say all linear regulated supplies would be worse here of course, I've recently tried something linear based here which is excellent but would cost nearly as much as the dac itself

chrism
29-10-2009, 08:48
Hi Leo,

I have measured the current demand of the Caiman (under load) and found it is quite small compared to what most linear PS can deliver.

I do agree that good linear supplies will be at considerably higher cost than Stan's switchmode one. Even the one that I am working on will cost me around £80.00 in bits and I am aiming for 14.5v and duty 3A (well over the top).

Regards

Chris

leo
30-10-2009, 03:09
Hi Leo,

I have measured the current demand of the Caiman (under load) and found it is quite small compared to what most linear PS can deliver.

I do agree that good linear supplies will be at considerably higher cost than Stan's switchmode one. Even the one that I am working on will cost me around £80.00 in bits and I am aiming for 14.5v and duty 3A (well over the top).

Regards

Chris

Hi Chris,

In this case its not so much the current demand but how the Caiman/7520 supply is designed , the usual LM317 based regulated psu's neither works well or gives the best sound imo when theres 10k uf seen on their output

Regards,
Leo

lovejoy
02-11-2009, 12:21
the usual LM317 based regulated psu's neither works well or gives the best sound imo when theres 10k uf seen on their output


That's exactly what I found, which is why I did this to my 7510:

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt177/lovejoy23uk/DSCN4294.jpg

Taking out the power supply caps made a massive difference to the sound I got from the DAC using my linear PSU. On top of that, having the extra space in the case allowed me to put in some nice output caps and bypass the op-amps altogether. I decided I'd had enough of faffing around with different op-amps (plus being SMD on the 7510, you weren't going to get many chances at it) so after fitting a Wolfson DAC, I thought I'd try and get an unadulterated signal out of it using some of Maplin's finest 'Audio grade' caps straight to the Vout left and right on the Wolfson. I had wondered for a while whether op-amps were really that necessary on a Vout DAC. I guess mileage will vary depending on your amps but to me, the answer is no, you don't really need them. Of course, my 7510 now no longer has variable output or headphone capabilities - and yes, the linear PSU cost almost as much as the DAC itself, but boy does it sound good.

chrism
02-11-2009, 13:24
Top work Rich,

I might give this ago on my well battered 7510. Is Stan taking a well earned rest from us as he has not posted for a while?

Incidently tried 13.8, 14.4 and 15v on my Caiman and Maps bench supply. I think it sounds best at 14.4v and I detected a very slight distortion to the sound at 15v. It is probably because the Maps supply is out of it's comfort zone.

Regards

Marktdac
03-11-2009, 10:50
Hello Stan are these new power supplies still available ?if so what sthe difference from the one supplied with Caimen? and how do i go about ordering one

Thanks Mark

StanleyB
03-11-2009, 11:04
None in stock till the end of the month. Send me an email to reserve one.

Marktdac
03-11-2009, 11:43
Thanks Stan have sent u an email via ur website ,when u get them in stock can u send me a paypal invoice and i will pay ASAP

Mark

chrism
05-11-2009, 21:29
Just had another look at the voltage to the Caiman. I am feeding it with 15v at the output from the PS and have read the voltage at the 10k input cap and found that it is 14.3v. The 0.7v drop appears to be due to the diode infront of the cap. On this basis the 16v cap appears to be well inside it's 10% margin.

Trying my new linear supply out and shocked at the difference it is making to the sound of the Caiman over the Maplins bench supply I was using. Absolutely fantastic!

Regards

Chris

Shanedudddy2
06-11-2009, 01:20
Can u please explain what you did? I am a little confused?
Are u using linear power supply instead of the regular power supply?
Are you bypassing the opamps? can't tell exactly whats going on in the pic? /moron lol

chrism
06-11-2009, 14:14
Hi Shane,

Not sure if it's me or Rich that you are asking the questions to.

Rich has done the opamp bipass and I have been dabbling with linear power supplies.

The linear supply that I am now using is a torodial trafo, 10,000 uf smoothing cap and LM317 regulators in series (first one set at 22v and the second at 15v). This gives 15v and 1A at the output. The trafo is a really quiet little beauty.

The sound from the Caiman with this supply is detailed, beautifully smooth and very enjoyable. The bass has taken a leap forward as well over my previous cheapo linear and really powerful and authoritive when needed.

Got me grinning!

Regards

Chris

roscoeiii
06-11-2009, 16:47
Chris,

Is the improvement over the stock Caiman you described in comparison to the early non-Caiman optimized power supply or the specifically Caiman PSU?

chrism
06-11-2009, 17:02
Hi Roscoeiii,

I bought a Caiman without one of Stan's supplies (before the new one was available) as I don't like switchmode types (they seem to upset my other equipment on the same dedicated spur).

All of my observations are between my own linear supplies , the first one being a Maplin's bench supply that I have been tweaking and the latest being a purposely designed one.

So sorry but cannot comment on how good Stan's latest switchmode is but I can say it is at considerably less cash than the linear one I have currently got (even though it was a kit).

Regards

Chris

lovejoy
10-11-2009, 23:43
Apologies if I didn't explain the picture very well, I guess it doesn't tell the whole story.

What the pic shows is that instead of the op-amp on the output, I have bypassed it and taken the analogue output straight out of the (Wolfson) DAC chip into a good quality capacitor to get rid of any DC offset the DAC may produce. I've then lifted the leg of the phono socket off the circuit board to disconnect it and soldered the other side of the capacitor to that - hence cutting out the op-amp circuit.

The other thing the picture shows is the removal of the input capacitor - not something to recommend doing unless you're going to use a linear power supply, but if you do go linear, this makes a big difference as linear supplies don't like to have to feed large caps.

It's incredible how much scope there is for tailoring the sound going with a linear supply. Up until today I only had a 4000uF cap after my transformer. Today I replaced it with a 20000uF cap and if there's anything that produces cleaner, faster, tighter bass than this on the planet, then I've not heard it.

To re-iterate what others have said though - I believe the BEST sound you can get from a 7510/20/Caiman comes from a linear supply rather than a switch mode, but to get it, unless you've got the bits lying around and you can build one yourself, you'll be paying as much, if not more than you did for your DAC in the first place. The Caiman PSU is *VERY* good, a lot less hassle and a fraction of the price.

MartinT
11-11-2009, 00:26
Stan - I'm very late to this thread but am sending you an e-mail now to reserve a new PSU for my Caiman. Kicking myself for not scanning the threads more closely.

StanleyB
11-11-2009, 08:15
Stan - I'm very late to this thread but am sending you an e-mail now to reserve a new PSU for my Caiman. Kicking myself for not scanning the threads more closely.
They have all been sold and the offer closed. The official stock will hopefully arrive at the end of the month or the beginning of December.
The only item that has the Caiman power supply at the moment is the UK and EU stock, and those are going very fast out of the door.

Shanedudddy2
11-11-2009, 09:37
Lovejoy:
So something like this you mean?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Variable-Linear-DC-Power-Supply-2Ch-30V-5A-or-60V-5A_W0QQitemZ250521262902QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_B_I_ Electrical_Test_Equipment?hash=item3a543b1b36

and by my understanding do you get rid of the capacitor on the input?, since the power is always constant, not switching...sorry if I`m totally off the mark for the theory.

May consider what you have done, I`m sure having a linear power supply around the place would be handy for other applications down the track anyways. :)

lovejoy
11-11-2009, 09:47
Lovejoy:
So something like this you mean?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Variable-Linear-DC-Power-Supply-2Ch-30V-5A-or-60V-5A_W0QQitemZ250521262902QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_B_I_ Electrical_Test_Equipment?hash=item3a543b1b36


Yes, that's the sort of thing. I thought of getting something like that myself as it would be handy for all sorts of projects, but having all of the bits left over from previously obsolete or aborted projects, I used a toroidal transformer, a bridge rectifier and some smoothing caps, then used one of these to feed the Beresford:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/teddyreg.html



and by my understanding do you get rid of the capacitor on the input?, since the power is always constant, not switching...sorry if I`m totally off the mark for the theory.


Yes, that's right. My linear supply has already taken care of ripple and noise levels, so the cap could be safely removed.

chrism
11-11-2009, 10:07
Just to point out that the bench supplies are not the quietest when looked at under a scope. They will do the job (I used a £20.00 Maplins XM22Y for quite a while set at 14.5v).

The new one I have got is a purpose made linear set at 15v with a cracking toroidal trafo and the difference over the Maplins one is quite staggering. The cost is substantially higher than Stan's solution though.

Regards

Chris

MartinT
11-11-2009, 10:51
They have all been sold and the offer closed

No worries, I'll pay the standard price.

ZebuTheOxen
11-11-2009, 14:11
Any news on the 7520 upgrade to make it work with the Caiman PSU? :smoking:

Shanedudddy2
12-11-2009, 21:42
Just wondering are people using the Caiman as just a preamp? or using it into a seperate preamp or integrated amp?

Has anyone done comparison of the differences between the 2?

caiman (variable) -> power amp

vs

caiman (bypass) -> preamp/integrated

Was wondering if it was worthwhile doing the bypass all the preamp and get a dedicated preamp or integrated. :)
cheers

Themis
12-11-2009, 22:03
I did two tests :
The first an A/B between
- the Caiman's fixed output to a NAD C-162 preamp to the C-272 power, and
- the Caiman's variable output directly to the NAD C-272 power amp.
Bypassing the preamp was better to my ears. More raw, punchy. And more detailed.

The second an A/B between
- the Caiman's fixed output to a Cyrus 8xp integrated amp line input, and
- the Caiman's variable output to the same Cyrus AV input (which bypasses its preamp)
The first solution (through the preamp) was far more detailed and relaxed. Visibly the direct-in section of the Cyrus was too sensitive for the variable output of the dac (I had to keep it almost at minimum) and lacked the dynamics and detail.

So, I think that there's no "easy" answer to your question. You'll have to test on the particular amp to know whether it fits well.

Shanedudddy2
13-11-2009, 00:03
Wait, fixed as in the fixed line output (still through the oppamp and stuff)?
Sorry for confusion but more curious how bypass of opamp, straight connection from DAC output, straight into a premp/integrated compares

chrism
13-11-2009, 09:02
Yes, The Caiman variable outputs will be better than just about any preamp you try if you are after a sound true to the recorded material. Stan's Caiman pre is really transparent and does not add or take anything from the signal path that I can detect.

I use a Caiman and a top notch linear supply feeding an Avondale A260 using the variable outputs and I have never owned a more enjoyable setup (and I have gone through lot's of them in my time).

Internet radio through the SB3 into this set up is fantastic.

Nice one Stan.

Regards

Chirs

Themis
13-11-2009, 09:03
Wait, fixed as in the fixed line output (still through the oppamp and stuff)?
Sorry for confusion but more curious how bypass of opamp, straight connection from DAC output, straight into a premp/integrated comparesSorry, I misunderstood. :doh:
Thought you were looking for test of Caiman directly into a power amp.

Covenant
13-11-2009, 09:21
Yes, The Caiman variable outputs will be better than just about any preamp you try if you are after a sound true to the recorded material. Stan's Caiman pre is really transparent and does not add or take anything from the signal path that I can detect.

I use a Caiman and a top notch linear supply feeding an Avondale A260 using the variable outputs and I have never owned a more enjoyable setup (and I have gone through lot's of them in my time).

Internet radio through the SB3 into this set up is fantastic.

Nice one Stan.

Regards

Chirs

I would just like to second the comment about internet radio/Caiman. Radio Paradise at 128aac is bloody superb. Radio Caroline also excellent.