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DaveK
21-09-2009, 20:41
Hi guys,
Just thought I'd add my latest findings on this subject - no big news but another little brick in the wall of knowlege perhaps :) .
After having Dave the Bass redo the soldering on my Techie phono leads I thought that I'd give it a serious listen to try and persuade myself that it wasn't so much worse than the TTs I heard at Owston, particularly Marco's. I went to Owston in part hoping to get my Techie and Marco's in a 'bake -off' (stop the guffaws, I didn't expect to win I just wanted first hand (ear ?) experience of the difference, :ner: ), but logistics and time constraints prevented this so I tried to do the next best thing, from memory tonight. There was a very clear winner I have to say, but as it is of no interest to anyone but me I shall keep the result to myself ;) .
The main point of this, other than to raise a smile on a few faces, is to tell you about my speaker supports. Regular readers of this column will recall that my speakers are bookshelf models (mis)placed on a 'sideboard' according to Steve Toy. Tonight I originally had them on 1/2" diam. soft, sticky sorbothane hemisheres and, midway through my session decided that they weren't giving me what I wanted so I decided to go back to placing them on solid oak circular cupboard door knobs, ex B&Q, about 2" diam. To try and emphasise any differences I only initially placed these under the right hand speaker, leaving the left hand speaker on the sorbothane. Immediately the sound stage centre moved from dead centre to 3/4 right and stayed there, with a consequent reduction in apparent sound stage width. Put another way the left speaker output almost disappeared. Putting the wooden knobs under the left speaker restored the soundstage positioning and IMO improved the overall sound considerably. Begone sorbothane supports under speakers.
Cheers,

Alex_UK
21-09-2009, 22:15
I think I may have mentioned this before as there is "previous" on this subject (seconds out, round 2 ;)) - but I don't think you want "squidgy" stuff under your speakers - to my very simplistic brain, with speakers, you want to stop them moving at all - so that all the energey of the driver is in pushing air forwards, not trying to push the cabinet backwards - in other words, the sorbothane feet allow too much movement compared to the wooden feet - so your experiment is as I would expect.

I would try some form of cone or spike/shoe arrangement - what you want to do is lock down the speakers. Another little experiment - try blu-tacking the speakers in place directly to the sideboard, and then to fix them to the knobs top and bottom - providing greater rigidity may make a difference, but only your ears will be able to tell

The Vinyl Adventure
21-09-2009, 22:56
i know people who swear by blutack...
i persoaly felt the wall mouting-in a way that would not be obvious over sat on the side board-option the best....
... but i know this is dangerous ground... so i shall shh :)

DaveK
21-09-2009, 23:03
Hi Alex,
You are correct in what you say about posting this before, but ..... there have also been posts offering different advice, so (see my signature, the bit in green) I thought I'd find out for myself. For me, firm and rigid is best and soft and floppy is no good, (now where have I heard that before :lolsign: ).
Now trying to work out how to maintain the wood to wood to wood contact whilst at the same time keeping the feet (knobs) attached to the speaker cabinet without permanently marking/drilling the cabinet - got some ideas but nothing worked out yet.
Cheers,

Alex_UK
21-09-2009, 23:16
Now trying to work out how to maintain the wood to wood to wood contact whilst at the same time keeping the feet (knobs) attached to the speaker cabinet without permanently marking/drilling the cabinet - got some ideas but nothing worked out yet.
Cheers,

Derfinitely try the blu-tack - between each "interface" - It defintely helped when in the past I used bookshelf speakers. Go on - the worst that can happen is you have some spare blu-tack - very useful around the home, or save it for sticking up Golden Wedding anniversary banners if it doesn't work! ;)

Marco
21-09-2009, 23:17
There was a very clear winner I have to say, but as it is of no interest to anyone but me I shall keep the result to myself...


I don't think it'd take a genius to work that one out! ;)

Dave, like I said to you on Saturday, if you really want to 'nail' what both decks do the best way is for me to pop round with mine and we can do a proper comparison :)

Anything else is just playing at it.

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo
21-09-2009, 23:19
Dave,
Double sided sticky tape would be the thing.
Really though you need some sort of 'cup' (itself stuck down with dsst) for the knobs to sit in to stop the whole lot skidding across the surface & onto the floor at the slightest provocation.

I use a lot of tiny aluminium cones & discs to do this - very cheap on Ebay. See the 2nd photo on post no. 38 - Here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3462&page=4



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Speaker-Spikes-for-HIFI-Speakers-No-fastening-required_W0QQitemZ380053661588QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers ?hash=item587cf6a794&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

......or similar.

Also these are very good - spikes and a disc integrated into a sealed unit so there's no danger of scratching surfaces - I use them on my speakers (but they are fitted with threads, so they go into captive bushes)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOUNDCARE-PLUTO-SUPERSPIKES-NEW-SPIKE-SPEAKER-SPIKES_W0QQitemZ370252127860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers?h ash=item5634bf1e74&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

DSJR
22-09-2009, 07:26
I still think you'd be better with these...

www.targethifi.co.uk/4598/4682.html

The Grand Wazoo
22-09-2009, 08:24
I think so too Dave (DSJR) but they're not part of the equation, are they?

DaveK
22-09-2009, 09:39
Dave, like I said to you on Saturday, if you really want to 'nail' what both decks do the best way is for me to pop round with mine and we can do a proper comparison :)
Marco.

Hi Marco,
I am very grateful for your offer of help and expect to take you up on it sometime but my current plan is to 'play with it' on my own for a while so as to learn as I go along. I am one of those people who enjoy the journey, not just the destination. From my limited time on this forum I have learned that things like set-up's rarely stay the same for long. If you come over now and tweak my system to the optimum and then I decide to change the speaker cable, headphones or i/c for instance I probably will need your expertise again.
Cheers and thanks again - being able to call on your expertise is a very fortunate position to be in, and I am fully aware of it.

Marco
22-09-2009, 10:14
Not a problemo, muchacho... Just shout if ya needs me :smoking:

Marco.

Stratmangler
22-09-2009, 11:59
Hi Dave

Looks like you're getting and hearing the results of sympathetic resonance and mechanical amplification from your "speaker support".

If you like the sound of it, fine.

I prefer my speakers to be more isolated from their surroundings.

My speakers are sat atop sand filled Atacama SE24 stands, with RDC cone cups between bottom spike and (laminated) floor, and also between top plate spikes and speaker cabinet.

Chris:)

REM
22-09-2009, 12:30
My speakers are sat atop sand filled Atacama SE24 stands, with RDC cone cups between bottom spike and (laminated) floor, and also between top plate spikes and speaker cabinet.

Chris:)

Problem solved, fill the sideboard with sand and when 'er indoors' complains tell her the alternative is proper stands, she's bound to see reason then;).

Simplez:lolsign:

Stratmangler
22-09-2009, 12:33
Problem solved, fill the sideboard with sand and when 'er indoors' complains tell her the alternative is proper stands, she's bound to see reason then;).

Simplez:lolsign:

:lolsign:

Chris:lol:

Stratmangler
22-09-2009, 19:29
Dave

You could try a pair of these (http://direct.asda.com/Granite-Coasters/001406980,default,pd.html) sat between your speakers and supporting structure. I'd use sorbethane pods under the granite.

Chris:)