This is hard work.

[Steve Toy]

David Price and myself are trying to enlighten some closed minds. I know I'm losing the will to live over there.

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23019&page=24

This is the busiest thread they've had for a long time...

Take a look and if you dare, join in and restore some equilibrium and (my) sanity.

[anthonyTD]

David Price and myself are trying to enlighten some closed minds. I know I'm losing the will to live over there.

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23019&page=24

This is the busiest thread they've had for a long time...

Take a look and if you dare, join in and restore some equilibrium and (my) sanity.
hi steve,
i have just briskly run through this thread and what i will add has been totally over looked by those idiots on there, one of the main reasons why most transistor amps have that paticular "grainy" sound is because unlike valve amplifier circuitry that produces mainly low order harmonic distortion ie, usualy no higher than 2nd and 3rd order, most transistor amplifier circuitry produces low and high order odd harmonic distortion,ie, 3rd 5th 7th 9th and so on, and its the high order ODD harmonic distortion that we cant stand listening too for any length of time, in even very small amounts! this is one of the reasons transistor amplifier manufactureres try to get their over-all distortion ratings as low as they posibly can , its to try and eliminate even the smallest amount of these high order harmonics!!! also sometimes
when you put a valve circuit after a solid state circuit that is producing these high order harmonics, the valve [remember not being able to produce high order harmonics] will supress those high order harmonics and therefore can make the previous un-listenable circuitry sound well,,, listenable!
therefore, valves have natural compresion and limiting characteristics, which give them the ability to re-produce sound in a way much closer to what we recognise in real life!
i am not a member of that forum so i cannot comment direct, but you can by all-means quote what i have written, it may help, but reading between the lines with some of these characters, i doubt it.
regards,anthony,TD...

[leo]

I flicked through the posts, way too much hard work for me wanting to get involved with that:lol:

[Dave Cawley]

I was asked to join the thread. I simply cannot understand rude, arrogant, ignorant people with a chip on their shoulder. So it's not for me then?

However, this is the time to publicly thank Steve Toy for his support. My sympathies to David Price for the utter unpleasantness and rudeness shown towards him...................

Regards

Dave

[chris@panteg]

Dave
i tried to make a feeble effort ' to say how good your timestep is but i was mostly ignored.

I have made similar post's on other forum's (AV/PFM) but it seem's badge snobbery rules .

BMW/AUDI driver's suffer from a similar handicap :eyebrows:

[Alex_UK]

I now realise why I've stopped here on AoS after my previous experiences (not of zg I hasten to add.) Hamish's "encounter" on PFM completely put me off venturing too far anyway - where's that group hug smiley when I need it? ;)

[Ali Tait]

Why bother? Life's too short.. :lolsign:

[Cotlake]

Yes, agree with Ali. It is worth observing that a few years ago, Rob Holt was evangelically commited to valve amps. I wonder what happened there :scratch:

[Clive]

Yes, agree with Ali. It is worth observing that a few years ago, Rob Holt was evangelically commited to valve amps. I wonder what happened there :scratch:
I couldn't believe what I was reading form him, he's changed his spots

[Spectral Morn]

Sorry but the saying " pearls before swine" comes to mind, ZG waste of time IMHO.:(


Regards D S D L

[anthonyTD]

hi all,
you will have probably seen my earlier post in this thread where i tried to give some aditional info for steve to put to those on that forum who seem to be delibarately bating him and dave price, but as you guys have pointed out, whats the point, thats the whole reason you will not find me on any other forum apart from here, i have been aware of the problems such characters cause since all the main forums started, and thats the reason i have stayed away from such places, this is the only forum[ as far as i know] that you can have a healthy debate and put all sides of an argument where it dosent turn personal! i realy despair sometimes when i read this rubbish...:(
regards,anthony,TD...:)

[Ali Tait]

Hi Anthony,
You will find the same good attitudes on WD and Audio-Talk also.Both are very friendly places.As for the rest,it's not worth wasting the time,it's only words on a screen after all,and if some people are so blinkered as to refuse to listen for themselves,that's up to them.We know what sounds best! :lolsign:

[DSJR]

I've only read the first page and already lost the will to live... The whole argument against transistors is decades old, more modern devices appear to answer these criticisms and Class B amps can now be made with SIMPLE circuits, inaudible distortion at ANY harmonic (well below -80db) and an ability to drive almost anything with no instability (low output impedance giving high damping factor), as they're so much more consistant. Indeed, the only amps that get criticised for crossover distortion and grainy, grey qualities tend to be CB and Olive Naims of old, their owners thinking they're new and bang up-to-date in the components and circuit used.

I'm not saying I'm anti-valve, far from it, but to get as transparent as possible sound from valves does involve considerable expense in terms of output transformers etc and sad to say, the Output-Transformer-Less Croft amp I had used to blow fuses if asked to deliver more than a small amount of current - it sounded great though - when it worked..........

Some audio people are SO narrow minded. Embrace it ALL I say, and have some fun doing it!

[Marco]

Guys,

Let's not lower ourselves to their (mainly McPeake's) gutter level. Whilst I understand why Steve started this thread, we must remember that as part of our ethos we do openly not slag off other forums, so let's rise above their sneering cynicism, clueless and horrendously confrontational attitude, and rubbishing of things that they know little about. We're much better than that! :)

You've summed it up, Steve:


I know the signs when James begins to lose his argument. He will probably post up an inane pic or video shortly and/or ask some personal question. He is here as a troll to wind people up and say stuff he would not dare to anyone's face.


I'm afraid that when people simply wish to cause aggravation and annoyance it's completely pointless attempting to engage them in any form of constructive debate, therefore Steve, I'd advise that you pull out of the thread now and let it die a natural death, which it surely would have done had David Price, Guy Sergeant and you not stimulated the discussion there. 'Pearls to swine', indeed ;)

On a happier note, I attended the Owston fest yesterday and heard some of the best sounds ever at an event such as this - the standard really was exceptional this time. It's obvious that the guys there continually strive for excellence and this is reflected by the fact that every time I hear their gear it gets better and better, so kudos and respect to them for achieving that :smoking:

Dave also hits the nail on the head:


Some audio people are SO narrow minded. Embrace it ALL I say, and have some fun doing it!


Events such as Owston, where genuinely knowledgeable and experienced enthusiasts meet to share their skill and devotion to the cause should be what we're concentrating on; things that actually matter, not the inane nonsense being written on ZG! :lol:

As an aside, I heard my "credit crunch special DJ deck" (:eyebrows:) go head-to-head again with some very tasty Garrards, SP10s and PL-71s, and it was most certainly not disgraced, as neither was my Croft (since it's been further modified) - far from it!

More on that later on the Owston fest thread...

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

Marco, we are not slagging off ZG. We have issues with a couple of its contributors that's all. I joined that place at the very beginning back in 2003 as well as its predecessor Groovehandle so I do hold a certain affinity for it. Before James was exiled there from PFM, his mainstay until then, ZG was ok. It leaned a bit towards objectivism more than I like but there is both room and need for diversity between forums.

With tighter and more focussed moderation they could attract more in the way of scientifically knowledgeable contributors in relevant fields.

My criticism is ever constructive and I do not regard forums as being in competition with each other where diversity between them is properly nurtured.

[DSJR]

The funny thing (quick comment only) was that when I first discovered audio forums (PFM), I was called a troll by that now banned member, despite having once owned similar speakers and even sticking up for them..

Some people (including a cousin-in-law) seem to want to put their self-imagined intellectual superiority forward at every opportunity, intellectualising all over emotional and heart-made decisions and totally missing the point in the process. This cousin-in-law is a competent musician, yet his compositions get bogged down in the name of "prog" key and tempo changes which jarr because there's no "soul" in it. Had he just "gone with" the vibe his introductions started with, the result would be a great musical journey.


Hope you guys understand what I'm clumsily trying to put across. I'm happy to be called to rights if I've done or said something wrong and will apologise, but some people just cannot bear their ego's being tested this way and react accordingly.

[anthonyTD]

I've only read the first page and already lost the will to live... The whole argument against transistors is decades old, more modern devices appear to answer these criticisms and Class B amps can now be made with SIMPLE circuits, inaudible distortion at ANY harmonic (well below -80db) and an ability to drive almost anything with no instability (low output impedance giving high damping factor), as they're so much more consistant. Indeed, the only amps that get criticised for crossover distortion and grainy, grey qualities tend to be CB and Olive Naims of old, their owners thinking they're new and bang up-to-date in the components and circuit used.

I'm not saying I'm anti-valve, far from it, but to get as transparent as possible sound from valves does involve considerable expense in terms of output transformers etc and sad to say, the Output-Transformer-Less Croft amp I had used to blow fuses if asked to deliver more than a small amount of current - it sounded great though - when it worked..........

Some audio people are SO narrow minded. Embrace it ALL I say, and have some fun doing it!
hi dave,
i agree
there have been some real good solid state amps, unfortunetly the mainstream stuff that i had the pleasure of listening to in my early days was terible to say the least, but agree again there is good and bad in both technologies, and if we hear that we should embrace it and not be totaly biased towards one or the other, my love for valves is well documented but one of the best preamps i have made to date, the soul-mate is all FET.:eyebrows:
regards,anthony,TD...

[DSJR]

Anthony, we've never met and I've only seen your products in pictures (sad for me).

FET's were regarded as a good thing (I loved the Sony 5650 V-FET amp I used from the 70's and the 8650 was even better as I recall), but later on, they were criticised - perhaps because they didn't like the stupid loads presented by the "in" speakers of the early eighties, I don't know.. I know ATC use them in their amps and make the bass (and mid?) drive units in 16 Ohm versions for them, to maintain linearity.

What happened to FET technology? I believe the poster on here (I forget his monika - apologies) who designed the Creek phono stage did an "SE" upgrade with a properly placed FET on the input and I'd have thought as you have that using them in a carefully designed preamp circuit would be ideal..

I'm really looking forward to getting my Quad II's going again - all that colouration but HUGE musical enjoyment (as long as they like the BC2's......)

[Mr. C]

I am afraid that James has a tower of Iron will when it comes all things audio.
I feel you are just wasting your time on a cause that was lost so long ago the Aztec's decided that earth was a piss poor place to reside and did a bunk some 700 light years hence.
Even if you did manage to 'acquire' James for a listening session of merit, it in all fairness would probably make not one jot of difference, as his mind is firmly made up regardless of how good / bad or indifferent the sound maybe.
Do bear in mind he listens through ATCs this will have a large bearing on his thought process. (IME)

[DSJR]

He may listen to ATC's (what's wrong with that?????), but last I read he was siting them on 30" of MANA, which kills bass power (judging by a dem I heard once). he also used a Naim 52 as I recall...

With all respect, using ATC 100A's has nothing to do with it. I used ATC 100A's because there was nowhere to hear the then current big Tannoy range and the better JBL's weren't being imported either to my knowledge and PMC weren't then chasing the domestic market either.. I had some of the happiest audio times of my life during that 3 year stint, only matched today with my hodge-podge direct-drive/1541 chipped CD/valve pre/sand amp/BBC derived speaker ancient system, which is still deeply involving to listen through...

It's the rigid mindset of some of these people I think we can agree on :)

[Marco]

Steve,

Fair enough. You do as you wish, matey, but I can assure you that the thread on ZG is destined to go nowhere positive or constructive, simply because McPeake and the few cronies (influential on ZG, not that this means much though in a wider sense) who suck up to him, demonstrating quite incredibly blinkered favouritism in the process, have no intention of behaving sensibly. All you're doing is giving the thread unjustified 'length', and they're revelling in all the attention!

So fill your boots as you wish. I guarantee though that when you've decided to stop, the thread will quickly die a death ;)

Dave,


The funny thing (quick comment only) was that when I first discovered audio forums (PFM), I was called a troll by that now banned member, despite having once owned similar speakers and even sticking up for them..


And of course, let's not forget that said "banned member" is of course not, according to him, really banned - no siree - he can return anytime he wants and he'd be welcomed with open arms, so he says, but he's deliberately choosing not to because according to him it's "more amusing" that way... :scratch:

Work that one out if you can! More likely, it's because he needs to apologise to the necessary people for why he was banned in the first place and the arrogant oaf hasn't got the gumption or the decency to do it!


Some people seem to want to put their self-imagined intellectual superiority forward at every opportunity, intellectualising all over emotional and heart-made decisions and totally missing the point in the process.


That's so true it's unreal!! You've just described McPeake and others of his ilk who infect forums that way to a tee!!! :exactly:

Getting away from their type and creating something of worth for genuine enthusiasts was exactly why we started AoS.

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

Indeed Tony. Btw you remember the early days on ZG and Groovehandle. This was how I made your acquaintance in fact.

[anthonyTD]

Anthony, we've never met and I've only seen your products in pictures (sad for me).

FET's were regarded as a good thing (I loved the Sony 5650 V-FET amp I used from the 70's and the 8650 was even better as I recall), but later on, they were criticised - perhaps because they didn't like the stupid loads presented by the "in" speakers of the early eighties, I don't know.. I know ATC use them in their amps and make the bass (and mid?) drive units in 16 Ohm versions for them, to maintain linearity.

What happened to FET technology? I believe the poster on here (I forget his monika - apologies) who designed the Creek phono stage did an "SE" upgrade with a properly placed FET on the input and I'd have thought as you have that using them in a carefully designed preamp circuit would be ideal..

I'm really looking forward to getting my Quad II's going again - all that colouration but HUGE musical enjoyment (as long as they like the BC2's......)

hi dave,
if you are ever in south wales and you fancy popping in to see me you would be most welcome, that invitation extends to all the good guys on AOS.
regards,anthony,TD...

[Marco]

but last I read he was siting them on 30" of MANA, which kills bass power (judging by a dem I heard once). he also used a Naim 52 as I recall...


LOL! I agree with much of what you write, but we've been here before, Dave :lol:

All I can say in reference to that is your dem was (somehow) flawed because Mana does not 'kill bass power', when used properly - far from it. I've got a couple of levels under my Lockwoods and about 40 more under the rest of my kit, and my friend, "bass power" is not something my system lacks ;)

You really do need to remove that notion from your head.

Marco.

[Joe]

Marco, we are not slagging off ZG. .

'this place to those who wish to wallow in the tumbleweed that now unfortunately characterises ZG - a once busy and vibrant forum effectively choked to death by wannabe consumer crusaders'

Is that not slagging-off?

[anthonyTD]

LOL! I agree with much of what you write, but we've been here before, Dave :lol:

All I can say in reference to that is your dem was (somehow) flawed because Mana does not 'kill bass power', when used properly - far from it. I've got a couple of levels under my Lockwoods and about 40 more under the rest of my kit, and my friend, "bass power" is not something my system lacks ;)

You really do need to remove that notion from your head.

Marco.
i have to agree about marco's system, the bass it produces is probably one of the best i have heard from valve or solid state!
but wether the mana stands he uses is a + or a - in this equation well,,, only marco knows that.
A...

[Steve Toy]

Joe,

No. It is constructive criticism. It was also made over there.

[DSJR]

I look forward to hearing Marco's setup one day. I should add that my tongue-in-cheek comments were made in the context of ATC 100's - Naim powered passive ones and demo'd by the main man with source and amps on a few feet of Mana each (a bit like you slagging "my" Crowns off over a probable bad experience of a DC300A or summat :D).

Anthony, I'd love to explore some of Sth Wales, as my experience is confined to the Vale of Clwyd and around 30 miles either side of it (I have yet to get up Maul Famau before i'm too old to walk it).

"One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me I'm not mistaken in mine." - or summat like that :)

[anthonyTD]

hi all,
well i have just looked in on ZG just to see where the conversation has led, and as i suspected what i allowed steve to quote me on has been taken mostly in a negative way, if these people think that i have spent all of my audio career making the same mistakes on valve and solid state design that so many continue to do so then they are very miss-guided indeed! two examples come to mind, the soul power amplifiers had a flat frequency range up to 220khz [ - 3db down point was over 1meg] but were later reduced to 120khz due to them being able to pick up certain radio stations! the soul-mate preamp has a flat frequency from 1hz to over 1meg.
i do not and never have used sticking plasters to cover up mistakes elsewhere in my circuit designs, the example i gave steve about using a valve stage after a solid state design was just that,,, an example of why it might make a badly designed solid state circuit sound listenable.
regards,anthony,TD...

[aquapiranha]

I look forward to hearing Marco's setup one day. I should add that my tongue-in-cheek comments were made in the context of ATC 100's - Naim powered passive ones and demo'd by the main man with source and amps on a few feet of Mana each (a bit like you slagging "my" Crowns off over a probable bad experience of a DC300A or summat :D).

Anthony, I'd love to explore some of Sth Wales, as my experience is confined to the Vale of Clwyd and around 30 miles either side of it (I have yet to get up Maul Famau before i'm too old to walk it).

"One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me I'm not mistaken in mine." - or summat like that :)

Moel Famau (mother mountain) is a walk in the park! however it does give you some fantastic views. we can see it clearly from some parts of the wirral, and I have climbed it myself many times in the past.

:)

[Mr. C]

Hello Dave,

It's the rigid mindset of some of these people I think we can agree on, in some instants I feel you are correct and that will not change lol!
Over the years I spent a lot of time with atc's including the 100 and 200's, and the lower passives too. (without mana I may add!).
I can not say I have spent as long as 3 years with them, and personally I would not wish too, that is my choice. We all look for some thing different, atc's take me a long way from desired sound.
The banality of some of these threads is quite sad, you are not going to cause the individual to change (in the vast majority of cases) their mind even if they feel it is a significant step forward, due to the self affirmation metamorphosis they go through upon return home, or having their mates 'pop over' to bolster their possible 'doubts' concerning their current set up.
Problem is with most of the so called big hitters on forums, is their own ears seem to count for very little, it is the 'friends' opinion that carries more weight, however should anyone contradict their feelings they take it as a personal affront.
Strange really if 10 years ago you would have thought about posting your personal feeling about your stereo on the local parish council notice board would be unthinkable, now the fact the 100K of thousands (possible more) have free access to your personal feelings and thoughts are now second nature really, the march of time is quite a leveler.
Trick cyclists could find quite a few case studies within the various forums, perhaps we should ask for a fee !

[Joe]

Joe,

No. It is constructive criticism. It was also made over there.

And was referred to by Marco over here. References to 'closed minds' and 'idiots' are not constructive in any way, shape or form. And in any case, a closed mind is by its very nature immune to persuasion. It's like trying to persuade a born-again Christian that God doesn't exist.

[aquapiranha]

Leave them to it. Bringing it over here to AoS only brings us down to their level. Please just leave it, if they want to squabble let them, and keep this place the way I like it, full of nice people with open minds and the occasional 'pub' style debate - not the pathetic childish mud slinging tit-for-tat I have just read over there.

:confused:

[anthonyTD]

Leave them to it. Bringing it over here to AoS only brings us down to their level. Please just leave it, if they want to squabble let them, and keep this place the way I like it, full of nice people with open minds and the occasional 'pub' style debate - not the pathetic childish mud slinging tit-for-tat I have just read over there.

:confused:
steve,
just noticed your post count.:eyebrows:
A...

[aquapiranha]

no reflection on my persona I assure you! I may be a little 'left of centre' but who isn't?

;-)

[Steve Toy]

Anthony, I've quoted your last post too. I don't want people thinking you design euphonic amps with sticky plaster on them. You don't and they certainly don't sound that way.

[anthonyTD]

no reflection on my persona I assure you! I may be a little 'left of centre' but who isn't?

;-)
:lolsign:
just kidding!!!
regards,anthony,TD...

[anthonyTD]

Anthony, I've quoted your last post too. I don't want people thinking you design euphonic amps with sticky plaster on them. You don't and they certainly don't sound that way.
hi steve,
thats fine, probably should have left the "idiot" bit off the last quote, makes us look as bad as them in some peoples view, and i agree.
A...

[Steve Toy]

I thought about it but decided to leave your post intact :eyebrows:

Someone would only have pointed out the, er, slight inconsistency as many of them read here too.

[anthonyTD]

I thought about it but decided to leave your post intact :eyebrows:

Someone would only have pointed out the, er, slight inconsistency as many of them read here too.
hi steve,
as i said earlier, all some of them want to do is find something to pick at, like a kid with a new scab! if you could prove black was black they would still swear it was white! i see their now picking me up on my grammer!:eyebrows:
lets face it there realy isnt any point trying to educate pork!;)
regards,anthony,TD...

[aquapiranha]

Like I said, it should be left over there, let them ruin their own forum. I see now that another forum has been dragged into it, yet more fuel for the fire. I think it should be left well alone, it will only end in tears.

:confused:

[DSJR]

It's all music reproduction at the end of the day and we all have different views on how we feel music and in my case, it has changed over the dacades...

Mr C, I'm not sure I could live with the ATC's myself nowadays, although mine didn't shreik like some I've heard (there were sample variations and the pre-SL models had a fuller tone than the early or post SL models, which traded a full tone for some more bass extension, exposing the mid dome more I think... despite the lovely clarity and spatial reproduction of the active 20SL pro's of mine. I haven't used them for a year now and although I know they'd be ruthlessly revealing (that's their job), the BC2's, despite being less "obvious," just allow me to enjoy the tension in the recording, rather than the speakers (if you see what I mean).

To conclude - I loved Naim in the early eighties BECAUSE it sounded exciting. The more subtle tones of amps like the Godzilla and Ampzilla, or Threshold or Hafler (and also the EAR 509) were lost on me. It took a forced re-alignment courtesy of the Linn LK1 and 2 to pull me back to reality and it was amazing what else was there in HiFi land....:)

[Joe]

To conclude - I loved Naim in the early eighties BECAUSE it sounded exciting.

I don't want exciting hifi. I hate being on the edge of my seat. That's why I loves them warm, cuddly valves!

[anthonyTD]

I don't want exciting hifi. I hate being on the edge of my seat. That's why I loves them warm, cuddly valves!
now your just throwing petrol on the fire! :steam::lol:
but seriously, i hope none of my designs ever get pigeon holed into the "warm and cuddly"
A...

[Spectral Morn]

The thing that saddens me is that there are a number of really nice guys over on ZG. However the thing I don't really understand is why they stick around in the swamp that is ZG.

Any light brought to the darkness there is throttled and dragged into the mud as quickly as the gloomy ones can do it. By hook or by crook they will clog up a discussion, swamping it with their vile. Great discussions have been destroyed, witch hunts have occurred.

Now I have no issues with people holding opinions based on experience and comments that are qualified. I even don't mind people saying I have heard it and its not for me, but I can't abide ill informed, self opinionated blinkered twandle being presented as fact. Open minds and manners would go along way on ZG...but sadly these are things which are rare over there, both among some of the management and members. It is I fear a lost cause and any who fight the good fight, get shot down, driven away, or banned.

Anyway thats my HO/E, so can we maybe wind this thread up as the dark clouds of drek ville are spilling across into the bright sunny valley of AOS.


Regards D S D L

[Joe]

now your just throwing petrol on the fire! :steam::lol:
but seriously, i hope none of my designs ever get pigeon holed into the "warm and cuddly"
A...

Perhaps I'd better not say that my solid state pre-amp was designed by Tom Evans .... oops!

[Spectral Morn]

Perhaps I'd better not say that my solid state pre-amp was designed by Tom Evans .... oops!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...Heretic ;):lol::lol::lol::lol: Its funny how Tom hated valves and slagged them off and then suddenly he saw the light (well met someone very talented at valve designing.... whats his name ummmmmmmmmm Mathew someone or other ;):)) Seems valves are okay now or has he gone of them again ?:doh:

His EC audio kit was quite good I still have a Pandoras box kicking around the house and the Finestra pre was very good in its day.

Regards D S D L

[Marco]

but seriously, i hope none of my designs ever get pigeon holed into the "warm and cuddly"
A...

Warm and cuddly? Hell no. There's more chance of me shunning direct-drive T/Ts and going back to an LP12 or giving up imprisoning lurvelies in my little cupboard!! :lol:

No, the day I sell my Copper amp will probably be the day I give up on hi-fi ;)

Marco.

[Varun]

Nothing wrong with warm and cuddly Marco if it does the job at a level- transistors can never reach. I have been saying that in the other discussion- which had more to do with cartridges.

I will have to return to valves- I am thinking of the future-meaning if should my Plinius go then I shall go to the modern valves-but not TdeP made. The 509s sound was 'tweaked' to give it the kind of slam the transistors provide.

[DSJR]

I'm stirring the poo as well no doubt, but the early bolt-up Naim 120 and 250 designs were incredibly "valve-like" in the best possible way. I don't know what happened in 1980 though ;)

The most "ss" sounding valve amps I ever heard were the Graff ones - lean, brightly lit sound and almost clinical in presentation...

On the other hand, one of the best sounding "ss"amp was one of the Coplands (CTA 515), featuring a "call-lift" style power button and a valve rectifier/regulator (I can't remember which). The flat round power button had a lit ring around it which glowed red when starting up and then green when working. A great "3-D" sound and plenty of power... Nicked pic below, button has trim missing.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/CIMG2774.jpg

[anthonyTD]

Nothing wrong with warm and cuddly Marco if it does the job at a level- transistors can never reach. I have been saying that in the other discussion- which had more to do with cartridges.

I will have to return to valves- I am thinking of the future-meaning if should my Plinius go then I shall go to the modern valves-but not TdeP made. The 509s sound was 'tweaked' to give it the kind of slam the transistors provide.

hi varun,
i know exactly where your coming from and that is why i still do a lot of quad 2 rebuilds, some people like that warm relaxing presentation that amps like the quad 2 portray, and i respect that, although in my own designs i prefer to show what valves are realy capable of.
regards,anthony,TD...

[anthonyTD]

Perhaps I'd better not say that my solid state pre-amp was designed by Tom Evans .... oops!
hi joe,
thats fine, i am just thankfull i no longer need to go to therapy now as the nightmares have finaly ceased!;)
regards,anthony,TD...