PDA

View Full Version : DISASTER - Well, a bit of a problem anyway.



DaveK
11-09-2009, 15:14
Hi Guys,
As regular readers of this column may recall, I had arranged to have new phonos and power lead soldered into place today by my local TV repair man. In preparation for this I have stripped it down and snipped the respective cables.
Problem:
He appears to be ill or gone out of business - shutters rolled down on his shop and telephone on permanent answer phone, no notices on the door and me with a useless Techie. He may magicacally reappear next week or I may never see him again. So, ..... post-modification test report will be somewhat delayed whilst I suss out alternative solderers.
Don't let it spoil your weekend :lol: .
Cheers,

Ali Tait
11-09-2009, 15:27
Sorry to hear that Dave,if I had been down in Leeds this weekend I'd have come over and done it for you.If you have no luck during the week,bring it to Owston and we'll get it sorted.

Jason P
11-09-2009, 15:30
DaveK,

Go to Maplins. Buy a soldering iron, some solder, some cheap bell wire and practise!! You'll get the hang of it in no time, and the phono lead attachment on the techhie is pretty straightforward.

Worst that could happen is that you need to take it to someone anyway!!:lolsign:

Jason

The Vinyl Adventure
11-09-2009, 15:42
yeah come on dave grow some bolloks man, have a go your self! ;)
as previously stated - the worst that can happen is it goes wrong and you have to get it redone
i installed a timestep and im a right pleb with a soldering iron!

DaveK
11-09-2009, 15:43
Sorry to hear that Dave,if I had been down in Leeds this weekend I'd have come over and done it for you.If you have no luck during the week,bring it to Owston and we'll get it sorted.

Hi Ali,
You, sir, have just confirmed the opinion I formed at our first brief meeting, seriously ;) .
I may attempt Jason (P)'s solution, having been in Maplin's this morning and purchsed 30w soldering iron (offer, £3.99) and solder at same price, but no flux - is it still necessary/used these days?

Worst that could happen is that you need to take it to someone anyway!!
If I thought that was a 'definite' instead of a 'maybe' I don't suppose that I would have any reservations but I have fears of ruining the PCB/solder terminals and I suspect that might be very expensive - keep your fingers crossed for me this weekend :( .
Cheers,

The Vinyl Adventure
11-09-2009, 15:44
if it really goes wrong ... your going to the diy meet arnt you? i imagine the will be 1 or 2 people there that are competant with an iron...

The Vinyl Adventure
11-09-2009, 15:51
here you go:

PxZxJsuW-dY

DaveK
11-09-2009, 15:51
yeah come on dave grow some bolloks man, have a go your self! ;)
as previously stated - the worst that can happen is it goes wrong and you have to get it redone
i installed a timestep and im a right pleb with a soldering iron!

Hi Hamish,
Got the bollocks, soldering iron and solder so :ner: .
And just ow many wires did you solder when installing the Timestep young man, uh??. My little job involves up to 8 of very varying thicknesses, the power leads being more like cooker supply cable :doh: and it would be difficult for an experienced solderer I suspect.
Thanks for your obvious concern and sympathy :lol: .
Cheers,

The Vinyl Adventure
11-09-2009, 15:57
Hi Hamish,
Got the bollocks, soldering iron and solder so :ner: .
And just ow many wires did you solder when installing the Timestep young man, uh??. My little job involves up to 8 of very varying thicknesses, the power leads being more like cooker supply cable :doh: and it would be difficult for an experienced solderer I suspect.
Thanks for your obvious concern and sympathy :lol: .
Cheers,

thats alright mate ;)

fair point about the quanitity of cable i supose.. the time step is 1 cable :o

did i tell you the tool i sued to cut out the old transformer... i couldnt find my wire cutters so i used a pair of spring loaded garden secators... and that made the whole job very bloody dificult il have you know!!!

DaveK
11-09-2009, 16:08
thats alright mate ;)

fair point about the quanitity of cable i supose.. the time step is 1 cable :o
Thought that's what I remembered !!

did i tell you the tool i sued to cut out the old transformer... i couldnt find my wire cutters so i used a pair of spring loaded garden secators... and that made the whole job very bloody dificult il have you know!!!

What do they say about a poor workman blaming his tools? :lol: .

Hi Hamish,
As you may have seen Ali Tait has offered to do the job for me at Owston if my DIY efforts are not successful.
Watch this space - soldering iron warming up now !!
Cheers,

Beechwoods
11-09-2009, 16:11
but no flux - is it still necessary/used these days?

Your solder will include it's own flux, so no worries there Dave. Good luck with the practice. Basic soldering skills open a whole load of opportunities!

DSJR
11-09-2009, 16:23
PLEASE practice first. I haven't done loads of soldering in several years now and have always baulked at the little headshell tags and will be getting help with my own Rega R200 re-wire from arm to amp (it's all prepared and I have the cardas plug all ready to go, but flinched at the tiny arm wires with only 1/2" to spare.

is the NOONE in Leeds who could do it for you if you've prepared the deck ready for soldering? I thought there were HiFi shops up there (or local radio shops with engineers on site)?

Ali Tait
11-09-2009, 16:32
Dave,if you really don't want to do it,ask for help on Audio-Talk.There are a few folks in your area whom I'm sure would help if you want it done before next weekend.They're a good bunch of lads on there,always willing to help out.Otherwise,no problem at all at Owston.Thank you for your kind comments.:)

The Vinyl Adventure
11-09-2009, 17:22
What do they say about a poor workman blaming his tools? :lol: .

Hi Hamish,
As you may have seen Ali Tait has offered to do the job for me at Owston if my DIY efforts are not successful.
Watch this space - soldering iron warming up now !!
Cheers,


i made this look dave http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2609 it had a few moresolder joints ... and i promise i am a numpty... im sure you will be fine!

DaveK
11-09-2009, 20:08
Hi Guys,
Bait your breath no longer - breath easy - the deed is done, sort of ;) .
I started with the phonos first, the fine (shielding) wires were an absolute bastard when your hand shakes further than the diameter of the wire but I got them to stick, then the main phono connections - a bit easier but again I got them to stick. Wouldn't win any prizes for neatness though :lol: .
I looked then at the power lead, looked again and then looked some more :scratch: :scratch: .
Discretion then took the place of valour and I chickened out - sorry guys, I feel as though I let you all down :eyebrows: . The thought of trying to warm up and hold electric cooker guage wire long enough to melt solder around it onto a 3mm x 2mm terminal was too much, so plan 'B' came into operation.
I had left a short length of the old power cable in place to ensure that live went to live and neutral to neutral on the rewire so I used a couple of block connectors and joined the cable that way. Quick plug in whilst dissembled and the platter spins - result, hey, hey :gig: .
Reassembled it and no pieces left over - another result !! :lolsign: .
Coupled everything up, levelled it up, put on a test LP (no prizes for guessing which), switched everything on and ...........................





music, YIPPEE!!!! :gig: :gig: .


BUT .......
1) bit of a hum, mainly from right channel, when volume is above mid way and no music,
2) little 'clicks' which occurred previously are now more like 'cracks' - can't decide whether thats a good thing or a bad thing but probably come down on the side of good - more revealing?
3) my initial impression was that any improvement did not justify the expediture, now I'm not so sure. Either the system and/or new cables are warming up or burning in or my brain is manipulating my impressions again (see my 'Return to Nirvana' post of yesterday for explanation if needed).
All I will say with confidence at the moment is that it is certainly no worse than it was pre DIY surgery. That leaves me with 'difference' - mmmmmm, difficult to say - can't actually pinpoint any immediate difference, it is different but I'm struggling to say how or in what area - might have to come back to that one.
One thing is for certain - I ain't going back to the previous arrangement to do an A to B to A comparison, that's for sure, which I guess confirms that it isn't any worse than it was before.
When wiring up the power cable I connected the third wire to the earth pin on the plug and to a suitable earthing point on the TT chassis - this I guess could be causing my hum (but why mainly on the right channel??) - I will therefore disconnect the plug earth connection (easier than at the TT end) but any suggestions on this little problem would be appreciated.

Note to TD fans - now playing LP Underwater Sunlight track 1 - best TD stuff I've heard so far, but what's a piano doing taking the lead in the opening minutes of track 2 - t'ain't electronic music !!:scratch: :lol: .
Cheers,

Beechwoods
11-09-2009, 20:18
Dave,

Well done, and kudos for getting stuck in and giving it a go!

It's possible though that the hum and (somewhat less likely) the more evident clicks are the result of dry joints on your soldering. These happen when the joint isn't held still enough when the solder is setting. Dry joints tend to look a bit dull compared with good joints which tend to be smoother and shinier. Dry joints will often work, but be subject to poor connectivity when moved, or greater resistance to the current passing through them (which could be giving you the hum).

If you're feeling brave, you can try resetting the joints you've made, by reheating and unsetting the joints, and redoing them with a tad of new solder.

My hands aren't the steadiest when soldering so I know where you're coming from - it may be worth investing in some of those 'spare hands' things that have croc clips to hold the ends of the wire steady so you can focus on getting the iron and solder into the right place.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=4017

And did you 'tin' the ends of each wire first? That is, coat the exposed wires separately with a thin film of solder prior to trying to join them together. 'Tinning' ensures a good bond between the two wires and makes it easy to solder them together, reducing the liklihood of a dry joint.

Hope this helps.

Ali Tait
11-09-2009, 20:26
Dave,well done! You've now crossed the threshold-before you know it you'll be building your own amps! :eyebrows:

The Grand Wazoo
11-09-2009, 20:29
Well done, Dave!

You're just a short step away from keeping a tin of Servisol in the bathroom cabinet so you can put a dab of it behind each ear before you go out for the night.

DaveK
11-09-2009, 20:59
Dave,
It's possible though that the hum and (somewhat less likely) the more evident clicks are the result of dry joints on your soldering. These happen when the joint isn't held still enough when the solder is setting. Dry joints tend to look a bit dull compared with good joints which tend to be smoother and shinier. Dry joints will often work, but be subject to poor connectivity when moved, or greater resistance to the current passing through them (which could be giving you the hum).
Nick, With the benefit of hindsight I am fairly sure that the red (right channel) soldering did look a bit dull compared with t'other but, 'cos it had stuck, I let it be.

If you're feeling brave, you can try resetting the joints you've made, by reheating and unsetting the joints, and redoing them with a tad of new solder.
Not feeling that brave - might take it to Owston and let the 'professionals' have a listen. Ali Tait has offered to do the soldering for me there so if there is agreement that my soldering is causing any problems maybe we can fix it there - Ali, are you reading me? ;)
My hands aren't the steadiest when soldering so I know where you're coming from - it may be worth investing in some of those 'spare hands' things that have croc clips to hold the ends of the wire steady so you can focus on getting the iron and solder into the right place.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=4017

And did you 'tin' the ends of each wire first? NOW he tells me !!! :steam: . Nope I never thought of it - silly me, I do remember (now) that I am supposed to tin the wires. The shielding wires were ready tinned, but not the main phono leads. Another confession: the phono lead kit came with proper silver solder but I forgot all about it and used the Maplin cheapy stuff :doh: :doh: That is, coat them with a thin film of solder prior to trying to join them together. 'Tinning' ensures a good bond between the two wires and makes it easy to solder them together, reducing the liklihood of a dry joint.

Hope this helps.

Present status: it stays as it is for the time being, the hum is only audible when I 'turn the wick up' which I do vary rarely, and only then when no music is playing.
The cracks are regular in repeat frequency (if you understand), telling me they are related to the state of the LP rather than the state of my dry joints.
And finally, I like it, I really do like the sound I'm getting now. Just listening to an old (very) vocal LP, (Billy Eckstine and Sarah Vaughan, Passing Strangers, £2 charity shop buy, if you must know :) ) and I'm happy, very happy, but still struggling to say why - funny, hi-fi, innit?

Ali,
Thanks for the encouragement but please be advised it'll be a cold day in hell before I build an amp, believe me!! :) .
Cheers and on with the 'motley', or should that be 'melody'?,

Ali Tait
11-09-2009, 21:16
Dave,you underestimate yourself! :)

DaveK
12-09-2009, 09:59
Dave,you underestimate yourself! :)

Ali, Oh no I don't !!

Hi Guys,
I've been pondering, during my waking hours, what it is that I like about my rewired Techie and I think I may be able to put my finger on it (possibly :) )
I used to wonder what "more airy" and "more air between the notes" actually meant, bits of auidiophile jargon to impress the uninitiated, perhaps, but maybe I now understand - all is now clear, if you'll forgive me :lol: .
Basically the underlying sound appeared almost unchanged, no tonal or timbre differences that I could detect, which was reassuring 'cos I liked what I had. However I now believe that I hear more separate individual notes, the vibrato of the human voice is less blurred, as is the resonance of the decaying guitar notes and drum sounds - have I just exposed my naivete, is that actually known as 'timbre'?
Anyway, the difference is in this area and I regard it as an improvement, so I'm happy.
Cheers,

Alex_UK
12-09-2009, 10:14
Nice one Dave - well done! I've bought an iron, not got it out the packet yet, but intending on having a go sometime...

Marco
12-09-2009, 10:15
Hi Dave,

Your wiring tweakery seems to be largely a success, so well done! :)

I would urge you though to bring your deck to Owston where any number of expert 'solderistas' will finish the job properly, whereby I'm certain things will improve even further, due in no small part to the removal of the residual hum you're currently experiencing.

In the meantime, keep spinning tunes as that will run-in the cables and improve the sound more :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
12-09-2009, 17:49
Hum on one channel plus regular clicking could mean the deck isn't earthed to the arm and thus to the amp properly...

From what I've seen (and my SL150 definitely has this), there is a little terminal attached to the deck somewhere in the arm-well. This should be connected to a separate wire to the amp's earth tag. The arm earth should be separate to the signal returns/screens and should also be connected to the chassis earth point nearby, thus separating the chassis and signal earthing until they get to the amp. My Dual and many of the Thorens models with arm originally cheated by connecting the chassis earth to one of the signal screens, causing hum in many cases... certainly with the 701, using a low output mc cartridge and a transformer (thanks to Rob Holt) I get no hum with the Croft unless the trannie is too near an adjacent item (Quad FM3) and even then it's only at very high volumes..

DaveK
13-09-2009, 14:11
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update: this morning I unearthed (or should that be de-earthed :lolsign: ) the TT by disconnecting the earth pin on the power plug. The hum is now much reduced on the right channel and not present at all on the left. It is now necessary to turn the amp up so high, beyond the 1 o'clock position, to start the faintest hum, that I don't anticipate it manifesting it's self at the volumes I listen at. Even at full volume it's not as bad as it was at 12 o'clock position yesterday. I would also suspect that it may have 'always' been there 'cos I have never turned up the 'wick' since I've had the kit.
Cheers,

Spectral Morn
13-09-2009, 14:26
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update: this morning I unearthed (or should that be de-earthed :lolsign: ) the TT by disconnecting the earth pin on the power plug. The hum is now much reduced on the right channel and not present at all on the left. It is now necessary to turn the amp up so high, beyond the 1 o'clock position, to start the faintest hum, that I don't anticipate it manifesting it's self at the volumes I listen at. Even at full volume it's not as bad as it was at 12 o'clock position yesterday. I would also suspect that it may have 'always' been there 'cos I have never turned up the 'wick' since I've had the kit.
Cheers,

Nice one...well done Dave.


Regards D S D L