a quick note on the timestep [Archive]

The Vinyl Adventure

04-09-2009, 19:14

im not pissing about, if you have a 1210 and you dont own one, buy one now
i have never ever used the term night and day before... im using it now!
my music has come to life!

listen right.. crack adicts can find the money to support £300 a week habits, you can afford it!

i am literally stunned by the improvement, i thought id be impressed, but this is a profound improvement! a real and ganuine huge improvement!
how the bloody hell can different leccy do this???

sell your car, your mom, i dont care.. you will be impressed by this!!

my roksan did not have anything on this now...
.. its not just good its exactly how i like music to sound...

right ....night then, im listening to music tonight!

Alex_UK

04-09-2009, 19:40

right ....night then, im listening to music tonight!

Your next upgrade should be a sex-change - then you can multitask! ;)

Seriously, glad you're pleased - and enjoy the choons! :cool:

Marco

04-09-2009, 19:40

Hehehehe... Nice one, Hamish. Tell me something I don't know!

Enjoy - you now have the basis of a very special turntable :)

Marco.

mike1210

04-09-2009, 19:52

I was well impressed when I did it to mine, bigger difference than the arm I thought. More open and exiting for me. Still mixed thoughts about my Origin Live Silver arm

DaveK

04-09-2009, 21:35

Curse you Hamish, (;) )
I was about to PM you to ask you what on earth persuaded you to go for this Timestep upgrade before anything else. I couldn't see how changing the power supply could significantly change the quality of the sound output, and certainly not enough to justify the horrendous expense. Now you've got me twitching, wondering if and how I can justify the expenditure myself, you bugger !!
Seriously I'm glad you are enjoying it - I take it that fitting it wasn't too traumatic?
No hurry for an answer - enjoy your new music to your heart's content and respond when you come back down to earth.
Cheers,

Marco

04-09-2009, 22:19

I couldn't see how changing the power supply could significantly change the quality of the sound output, and certainly not enough to justify the horrendous expense.

Dave,

As you slowly but surely meander down the road of hi-end hi-fi, one thing you'll very quickly realise is that the power supply in anything is the single most influential aspect of any design.

Remember, with hi-fi equipment, what you're essentially listening to through your speakers is modulated mains :)

Therefore.............. Source first, as always - and everything starts at the wall socket! The mains supply is effectively the 'source' of a hi-fi system, well before any CD player or turntable. You might not have thought about it like that before, but that's how it is.

So............ Going back to the Timestep (or the Paul Hynes PSU, etc), this is unquestionably the single most influential upgrade you can make to the Techy - period.

That, my friend, is today's factoid from the Marco-boy. Read it and digest it with love ;)

Marco.

DaveK

04-09-2009, 22:40

Dave,

Remember, with hi-fi equipment, what you're essentially listening to through your speakers is modulated mains :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,
I had realised that simple fact as far as CDs, DVDs and any broadcast signal is concerned but, for some reason I didn't think that it applied to the signal put out by a cartridge - strange, I know, but true - I stand corrected :doh: .
However, in my particular case, it's all hypothetical as I don't see me being that motivated to move up the upgrade ladder at that cost. I'm already shuddering at what the Techie has cost so far; TT, cartridge, headshell, mat, clamp,new phonos and new power lead plus fitting costs - sheeesh !!
Cheers,

Marco

04-09-2009, 22:52

May I remind you of your earlier remark to Hamish:

Now you've got me twitching, wondering if and how I can justify the expenditure myself, you bugger !!

Don't worry, it'll get you in the end! :eyebrows:

Actually, for what the Timestep costs (what is it £300 or so?) I can't think of anything else that so fundamentally transforms the Techy (and how it presents music) in ways that you can only fully appreciate when listening... *That* for me makes it a bargain.

And think what a Linn Lingo (or whatever their super-duper PSU now is for the LP12) costs!

Marco.

Alex_UK

04-09-2009, 23:25

I didn't think that it applied to the signal put out by a cartridge - strange, I know, but true - I stand corrected :doh:

Dave - you are actually right - mains doesn't "touch" the cartridge as such, so the improvement with the PSU upgrades will all be about the motor - the actual spinning of the disc, though of course the two are inseperable, there isn't a *direct* link - (hope I'm making sense here clever people, and not leading Dave up a garden path?)

The Vinyl Adventure

05-09-2009, 00:22

I'm not going to lie to you, I have also been in the pub since I last messaged. One thing I did start to notice before I went, as a slight negative, there is a lot, lot more bass... This may calm down I assume? One thing that did solve/counter it was the weight I also got today, it seemed to drag the bass slightly more toward normal levels.
Mike: open and exiting is definatly a good explanation! I would also add huge increase in dynamics! The "blacks" are so much blacker which seems to result in more ambience and emotion!
Davek: the biggest upgrade to the sound of my current amps was to add a hicap(psu) it had a very similar, although in no way as extreme, effect.(hense some of my reasoning for this choice) I urge you to put any plans for other upgrades on hold! we have spoken within and without this forum, I like to think you may trust my opinion, this realy is a truly drastic upgrade, really beond reason! in marco's coments
where ge talks about the way it "presents" the music, he hits the nail on the head! It is such a profound improvment on the presentation!
Alex: buy a 1210, honestly I have not heard my kit sound like this, it still has it's faults but wow! There is some kind of truth in the sound I did not think my kit was able to produce! There might be a bit of a band wagon on this site, it's something I was a little sceptical of. But these people are not wrong! I ahve spoken to dave cawley a few times on the phone now and my esperience so far tells me his passion for the improvent of the 1210 is second to none! He puts across a more fair and concise argument than he does on here too... If you are even concidering it I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking you through a few things!

Ammonite Audio

05-09-2009, 06:29

A decent external power supply for the Technics is a no-brainer, as Hamish has found out; and definitely worth the investment IMV. I do reckon that Dave Cawley's bearing mod is where the next "Oh My God" improvement will come from, at a very agreeable price.

Alex_UK

05-09-2009, 06:30

Alex: buy a 1210, honestly I have not heard my kit sound like this, it still has it's faults but wow!

If I can get one at the price you did (you jammy git ;) ) I'll jump at the chance... Only thing is, "project Garrard 401" is still not properly established, and I have an emotional attachment to that turntable... Not that I have to get rid of it or anything... Oh, I don't know! I may start another thread for advice.

P.S. - is it wrong (and a bit chav) to be lusting after the gold plated "bling" version...?! :eyebrows:

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/SL1200LTDmed.JPG

REM

05-09-2009, 07:25

That is total chav, but they fetch bloody good money these days:lol:.

Marco

05-09-2009, 08:47

They're as rare as hens doobries, but unless you have David Dickinson's mahogany tan, Sean Connery's chest hair and Tom Selleck's moustache, with a penchant for line-dancing, splashing on Old Spice, sporting pastel-coloured shirts, Farah slacks and taking holidays in Lanzarote, it's pointless.

And chances are you'll be upgrading the arm, losing 70% of the bling at a stroke, and therefore left with a gold platter and couple of knobs, not including of course the biggest one of all using it! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Alex_UK

05-09-2009, 08:52

...unless you have David Dickinson's mahogany tan, Sean Connery's chest hair and Tom Selleck's moustache, with a penchant for line-dancing, splashing on Old Spice, sporting pastel-coloured shirts, Farah slacks and taking holidays in Lanzarote...

Oh sh!t, I thought the internet was anonymous, how the hell do you know all that about me Marco!? :D

DaveK

05-09-2009, 09:07

Dave - you are actually right - mains doesn't "touch" the cartridge as such, so the improvement with the PSU upgrades will all be about the motor - the actual spinning of the disc, though of course the two are inseperable, there isn't a *direct* link - (hope I'm making sense here clever people, and not leading Dave up a garden path?)

Hi Alex,
Thanks for that - I knew that there was some logic behind my thinking -I had it in mind that the cartridge was 'passive (unpowered) and worked something like a Pietzo crystal, producing some sort of signal that was transmitted to the amp for the amp to do what amps do. This view was reinforced by the fact that amps have different inputs (to 'process' a different signal differently) for TT signals.
That is the total extent of my 'knowledge' on the subject !!
Cheers,

The Vinyl Adventure

05-09-2009, 09:12

When I bought mine there was a pair of mk5's in cash converters. £350! ....
.... Originaly black, they had been painted silver ... With a brush I should add, then the platter and arm painted gold, also with a brush! Why do people do such things?
There is a famous story at the shop about this guy that used to frequent the place, complete tos piece, he used to buy all sorts of badly matched cheap hifi and loads of speakers. Whilst I knew him he bought four pairs of the things ranging from huge revolver floor standers to monitor audio r45's. Anyway before I was there, he bought a pair of monitor audio b2's and then came back a week later saying they were bust. They tell him to pop them in and they will sort it for him. So few days later he comes in with these speakers - boxed, and from the outside oof the box you would think they were new. Even out the box they looked fine. Until you took the grill off..... First issue - both woofer and twetter painted by hand with a brush .... Gold! Not just any gold but think metal paint gold. he then proceded to tell about how he had rewired "for performance" .... Which basically meant, had had removed the cross over and all the wadding from inside the cab, and wired both drivers directly to the terminals with bell wire. The best bit.... He asked for a refund!!
Chavs eh, the world would be a boring place without em!!

DaveK

05-09-2009, 09:17

If I can get one at the price you did (you jammy git ;) ) I'll jump at the chance...
Hi Alex,
Don't know what Hamish paid for his (don't want to either, ;) ), but I bet he paid more for his than I did for mine: - about £75 + P&P after using eBay voucher and it's in excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition as far as I can tell (only slightly damaged phono plug and earth lead), even the lid and hinges are present, intact and unscratched (lid slightly cloudy, though) :ner::ner::ner:
Only problem, it took me a couple of months to take delivery, but thats another story :lol: )
Cheers,

DaveK

05-09-2009, 09:30

....... is it wrong (and a bit chav) to be lusting after the gold plated "bling" version...?! :eyebrows:

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/SL1200LTDmed.JPG

Hi Guys,
This may start a interesting discussion, particularly amongst the 'traditionalists' amongst us, but has anybody thought of stripping their Techie down and getting the relevant bits gold plated? It's gotta cost a lot less than paying the silly prices these things seem to command these days.
Not sure the platter, being aluminium, would gold plate (must be a way?) but failing that, get it anodised.
Anybody doing this, I expect royalties of 10% of the cost price, on your honour :lol: .
Cheers,

The Vinyl Adventure

05-09-2009, 09:40

I thought about getting mine resprayed... But I like it as it is now I own it! Although I am going to change the LEDs for some orange ones I think... Just to be different like :)

DaveK

05-09-2009, 09:52

Davek: the biggest upgrade to the sound of my current amps was to add a hicap(psu) it had a very similar, although in no way as extreme, effect.(hense some of my reasoning for this choice) I urge you to put any plans for other upgrades on hold! we have spoken within and without this forum, I like to think you may trust my opinion, this realy is a truly drastic upgrade, really beond reason! in marco's coments
where ge talks about the way it "presents" the music, he hits the nail on the head! It is such a profound improvment on the presentation!

Hi Hamish,
Of course I trust your opinions - if you told me that having my head amputated would cure my toothache I'd give it serious consideration :lolsign: .
I've taken 'leaps of faith' before and generally been rewarded, but £300 is a big leap for me. In the cold grey light of dawn, even if I was as enthusiastic about the music as you are after I had stepped up (sorry :) ) to a Timestep, I'm still not convinced that I could justify the expenditure, unless the lottery smiles in my direction in a big way. Put another way, maybe I'm not that committed to the pursuit of that level of excellence.
Really glad that you're enjoying it though - long may it continue!!
Cheers,

DaveK

05-09-2009, 09:58

I thought about getting mine resprayed... But I like it as it is now I own it! Although I am going to change the LEDs for some orange ones I think... Just to be different like :)

Hi Hamish,
There's a guy on eBay selling Techie LED 'upgrade kits of different colours - one of the options is blue, which would match the 7520. (Yes, I had worked out that you wouldn't generally be using both at the same time but you may, like me, leave the 7520 switched on all the time ;) )
Cheers,
PS
Don't forget to add Timestep to your kit 'signature' ;) .

Steve Toy

05-09-2009, 11:06

Microphony alert! As the dynamics and sheer resolving power improve so you may get more unruly bass. You need to control it not attenuate it.

DaveK is going to face the same problem but worse if he upgrades his front end, unless he sorts his speakers first. Hi-fi systems work as a whole not just as constituent parts. It works as a syntagmatic chain of communication after all.

The fundamental basics of both setup and musical reproduction can only be ignored for a while.

The alternative is futile circular box-swapping.

REM

05-09-2009, 11:24

We may have been here, or somewhere similar before, I think. On the controlling resonance front if it's not possible for DaveK to sort his speakers and T/T supports properly then it is definitely time to try out some Isonoe feet before considering anything else, IMO of course.

DaveK

05-09-2009, 12:22

DaveK is going to face the same problem but worse if he upgrades his front end, unless he sorts his speakers first. Hi-fi systems work as a whole not just as constituent parts. It works as a syntagmatic chain of communication after all.

The fundamental basics of both setup and musical reproduction can only be ignored for a while.

The alternative is futile circular box-swapping.

Hi Steve,
I have no doubt that you are well intentioned but ....

For God's sake let the subject of my speakers drop, PLEASE :)

You are in grave danger,IMHO, of becoming paranoid about the subject. Please accept that I am happy with my speakers and their current positioning and no amount of well meaning advice is going to change that in the foreseeable future - just let it go!!
Can I assure you that I will not be backward at coming forward when I think that I need advice on this or any other audio subject. Box swapping ain't going to be an option for me - I will continue to make affordable front end changes/upgrades as I perceive the need and funds allow but box swapping comes in the same category as Timesteps: may be desirable but can't justify the expenditure. As I've said before, my main motivation is the pursuit of enjoyment rather than hi-end excellence or Nirvana, in reproducing recorded music.

We may have been here, or somewhere similar before, I think. On the controlling resonance front if it's not possible for DaveK to sort his speakers and T/T supports properly then it is definitely time to try out some Isonoe feet before considering anything else, IMO of course.
Thanks Ralph for the voice of reason. I keep looking at the isolation feet, presumably for the Techie rather than the speakers, but again its a 'leap of faith for me - they ain't cheap - and I do currently enjoy what my speakers are giving me now. I haven't got the most sensitive ears in the world but they are cabable of recognising differences/improvements, Stan's 7520 being one example, Tirna mods to same being another and Mikes cable being the most apparent. At the moment my upgrades over the standard Techie are Sumiko Headshell and Nagoaka (110?) cartridge, as recommended by Marco, (previous cartridge with Techie appeared to be minus the very small sharp pointy bit right on the end, so nothing to compare these with :) ). I have also added a mat and clamp from SME-Tech (or similar) and am currently investing in new phono, earth and power leads, after which the budget will be given time to recuperate.
Any (non-speaker, non-Timestep and non tonearm) related advice on priority of upgrades beyond the ones above would be welcome.
Cheers,

Steve Toy

05-09-2009, 15:40

You are in grave danger,IMHO, of becoming paranoid about the subject. Please accept that I am happy with my speakers and their current positioning and no amount of well meaning advice is going to change that in the foreseeable future

Dave,

Chill. Systems work as a whole not as their constituent parts.

I'll say it again, systems work as a whole...

Take this advice or waste your money. When you've maxed out the turntable, where is the sound going to emerge from?

Your money, not mine. Even if you disregard what I say on this, others won't have to make your mistake and I'll happily use your example to illustrate the point.

Money is hard to come by these days but advice is free to anyone able to benefit from it.

It is as though you want to chew the fat on a car forum about souping up your engine, suspension, running gear and brakes to improve the performance and handling of the car yet insist on still driving around on the same set of illegal bald tyres.

DaveK

05-09-2009, 17:27

Hi Guys,
I throw this into the mix, not because I'm convinced it's the 'bee's knees' but because it may have something to offer and it don't cost a lot. I would be very interested to hear if a) anyone has already tried it, or .....b) anyone is prepared to try it and report back. For the record I think it helps my set up, maybe not by any giant leap forward, but the longest journey starts with a small step.
Isolation of the TT is said to be a good thing, ney necessary, to give the set up the best chance of attaining it's best performance but Isonoes are horrendously expensive and buying them, for me, involves significant expenditure on what would be an act of faith. So, ...... I have removed from my garage/store room a length of non-slip matting, a bit like a 3mm sheet of foam rubber with perforations in it a bit like the 'expanded' aluminium sheet used for grills etc - I think it cost a few quid from B&Q. It's black and just a touch wider than the Techie so I have stuck it under the Techie while leaving the standard Techie felt-soled in place. There is certainly no deterioration in sound quality and I think there is minor improvements acroos the frequency spectrum. Soundstage width and depth may also be a little better.
You may have noticed that I am 'hedging my bets' a little but I've only listened to one LP, a different recording of a performer that I'm very familiar with, so it's not at all conclusive yet.
Comments welcome but please avoid the obvious, "If you think that that gives an improvement, just think what proper Isonoes would do", as that thought has already occurred ;).
The sheet is just about big enough to also enable me to cut a couple of pieces shaped to fit under my speakers, which I'm gonna try later, after I've made my mind up about it being under the TT.
Cheers,

DaveK

05-09-2009, 17:35

Dave,
It is as though you want to chew the fat on a car forum about souping up your engine, suspension, running gear and brakes to improve the performance and handling of the car yet insist on still driving around on the same set of illegal bald tyres.
Steve,
And all I can say to that err, statement, is that you have a bloody weird sense of reasoning.
Can we agree that, until I ask for specific advice from you on speaker positioning, that subject is off limits? - I can't advise you on running the forum and you can't tell me about speaker placement - we both hold valid opinions on both subjects but never the twain shall meet.
Thanks,
Dave.

Steve Toy

05-09-2009, 21:13

I am offering you no advice on speaker positioning.

The Vinyl Adventure

05-09-2009, 21:26

shall i see if i can arange some kind of ilegal street fight so you two can have it once and for all...

DaveK

05-09-2009, 22:43

I am offering you no advice on speaker positioning.

Thanks Steve, that's a nice gesture (at last !!) - much appreciated.
Cheers,

Steve Toy

05-09-2009, 22:45

I have not offered you speaker positioning advice for some time.

Marco

05-09-2009, 23:11

Have you developed a stutter, Glenda? :eyebrows:

Marco.

DaveK

05-09-2009, 23:14

I have not offered you speaker positioning advice for some time.
Posted about 12 hours ago:

DaveK is going to face the same problem but worse if he upgrades his front end, unless he sorts his speakers first.
Posted 18th August 09:

If the wife won't budge an inch on the optimum siting of your speakers she is being unreasonable (and wearing the trousers.) Of course there have to be compromises but willfully preventing your system from attaining more than about 25% of its potential verges on a power trip in my view. True beauty and style lies in form and function working in harmony not with form acting as master and function its humble servant.

Those speakers just plonked on that sideboard means that any money you spend on improving your system further up in the chain is money down the drain. Under such constraints a fully loaded Technics SL1210 will sound no better than a 100 quid Project Debut.

The speakers need first to be placed on dedicated stands and then positioned in the room where they will work best. There are no hard-and-fast rules here but most speakers require at least foot or two between them and the rear wall with at least that between them and the side walls. It is a case of experimentation to find the spots where you derive the best tonal balance without harshness at the top end, overhang in the bass or a quacky midrage. This may mean room layout changes but the end result will not necessarily mean the place will look any less nice. It will look different though.

Hi-fi systems need to be given proper house room or you'd be better off buying a mini system/portable for about £200 all in and just plonking it on the sideboard.
What's that lot then, scotch mist??
Regards,

Steve Toy

05-09-2009, 23:21

18th August is some time ago. The other is not speaker positioning advice. The speaker positioning advice itself was given some time ago

DaveK

06-09-2009, 10:04

18th August is some time ago. The other is not speaker positioning advice. The speaker positioning advice itself was given some time ago

Steve,
You're nit-picking, playing with words, and I suspect you know it.
Leaving aside how recent 18th August is, to what were you referring in your comment yesterday,
"DaveK is going to face the same problem but worse if he upgrades his front end, unless he sorts his speakers first." if not their positioning?
Regards.

Dave Cawley

06-09-2009, 10:08

Guys

This whole page is "thread drift" could you take it elswere please?

Thanks

Dave

The Vinyl Adventure

06-09-2009, 13:55

It's not even interesting drift either, it's just you 2 chucking rocks. I'd you don't get on there is plenty of other childeren to play with:lolsign:

DaveK

06-09-2009, 15:54

It's not even interesting drift either, it's just you 2 chucking rocks. I'd you don't get on there is plenty of other childeren to play with:lolsign:

No Hamish, please don't do that - I like playing with you - I'll tell you about my Techie if you will still play with me, please. :lolsign: Anyway, I didn't start it, he did! :lol:
Cheers,

MartinT

06-09-2009, 16:52

Nice one, Hamish. From one ex-Roksan user to another, the only way is forwards!

The Vinyl Adventure

06-09-2009, 18:08

so far i definatly agree.. which roksan did you have?

chris@panteg

06-09-2009, 18:24

Hamish ' i used to have a Roksan Radius with Nima arm ' a very nice sounding deck indeed ' it did struggle with dense classical music or prog stuff , but a lovely performer all the same.

But since fitting the Timestep to my 1210 ' i feel i have a turntable that can play any type of music ' and is such a pleasure to use , in fact it was with classical and acoustic based music ' that the timestep really makes a difference .

There is a sense of space around everything ' and an effortless fluidity to notes ,
this dark shut in feel 'that so many comment on must be mostly down to the PSU i feel.

The Vinyl Adventure

06-09-2009, 18:39

There is a sense of space around everything ' and an effortless fluidity to notes ,
this dark shut in feel 'that so many comment on must be mostly down to the PSU i feel.

i would def agree with that... space around the notes is a very good discription!

its nice to hear others talk about a transition from various roksan to 1210's its quite reasuring ... not that i really need it, but it is nice to hear!

Peter Stockwell

06-09-2009, 19:03

Damn you all!, looks like the KAB psu will have to go!

chris@panteg

06-09-2009, 19:22

Hi Peter

Sorry about that ' it must be agonising ' but marco made the transition from the KAB , if you can do it ' then hell why not .

Hamish ' i not only had a Roksan but also at one time a maxed out LP12 and the mighty Voyd .5 with reference PSU ' which is still the best/finest record player i have ever used.

How have i ended up using a 1210 ? well its a long story , but the techy is not disgraced and its just so fit and forget ' unlike the other decks which need yearly attention/servicing and belt replacement ' etc etc .

The Vinyl Adventure

06-09-2009, 19:34

Damn you all!, looks like the KAB psu will have to go!

Well if it's any concilation i hold you entirely responsible for the fact that once I have sold my roksan I will be buying a dtc3! It's amazing what can come from a flipent enquiery in a unconected pm! It also looks as though I might, demo pending, go down the avodale route .. Also your fault!

(dave, don't worry If I like the dtc3 il be selling the hicap to buy a jelco .. And if I don't prefer the dtc3 it's going back and I'm getting the jelco that way ... I got it all planned out!!! :) )