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View Full Version : Russ Andrews Balanced mains Transformer - any experience?



worrasf
02-09-2009, 20:53
As we are having an extension built requiring a separate consumer unit I am getting a dedicated spur installed purely for the HiFi at relatively little cost. We live way out where the cows roam free no mains gas and no mains sewage so it's all electric and septic tanks. The former means the supply is a little flaky on occasions the latter means the air is a little niffy on occasions :lol:

Anyway - to the point - has anyone punted the nearly £3K required for a Russ Andrews Balanced mains Transformer (or similar) as if I was in the market for one now would be the best time to fit it when the new consumer unit and cabling goes in.

My default view is that it's likely to make marginal difference on top of a new clean dedicated spur and for that sort of money I could buy a pair of Quad II Classic monoblocks and still have change left over for a darn good holiday.

Over to you:cool:

Steve

Mike Reed
02-09-2009, 21:29
If you're having a radial circuit put in, why not do it in style and have one per piece of kit?

There are ways and means of achieving a good dedicated mains system, and there've been threads on it. One such a month or two back on Pink Fish which ran for many pages.

The chappy who 'specialises' in this is one RKR, but there are recommended consumer units, cable sizes and other bit 'n bobs like RCBOs.

£3k is ine hell of a price to pay for 'purifying' the mains; is it really that bad? Anyway, I'd politely suggest that you attend to the former before considering the latter. Russ Andrews used to do a satisfaction sale or return scheme on their cables, but maybe this doesn't extend to other kit.

Mike
02-09-2009, 21:45
Is it not just a bloody great isolation transformer? :scratch:

I'm sure 'looking elsewhere' could result in a much better deal if you really wanted to go down that route... I seem to remember reading something about Noel Keywood doing (or at least 'looking into') this sort of thing not so long ago. Perhaps dropping a line to HFW could be worthwhile? :confused:

worrasf
03-09-2009, 09:08
Yep - pretty much my feeling to as it is just a darn big (2) transformers. I was just curious in case any folk had gone that route and felt it was good value for money. I think I will be more than happy with a dedicated spur.

MAD
05-09-2009, 19:33
The MAD BPIP is a cheaper but better option when compare with the Russ Andrew one, it is only £1800 and can be use as an isolation platform for your power amplifier. The weight of the BPIP is almost doubled the Russ one, it is probably the best one in the world money can buy.

Our special designed balanced transformer is housed in a beautiful handcrafted English Oak platform, and there is a piece of ‘Ultra High Density Granite’ (UHDG) floating on our special formulated damping compound. The balanced transformer is accurately wound on a German made silicon alloy core with the finest laminated high purity copper wire, and internally wired with our 99.99997% Super Purity copper (Also available in Special Edition with 99.997% silver) onto two Clipsal sockets. The Balanced Transformer has two special designed Noise screens, which screen off the unwanted high frequency interference (pollutions) on your main power supply.

After you plug in your system to the Balanced Power Isolation Platform, you will experience silence and you will hear a much quieter background. The bass becomes more robust and dynamic, the vocal and mid sounds much louder with the most accurate stereo imaging and sound staging, and the treble clearer and cleaner without excessive brightness and harshness. The dramatic improvement is something you have to experience for yourself, as words fail to describe the awesome experience. This is the Livingstone and Anchor of your audio system.

How does it work?

Audition tests had proven that our balanced power conditioner sound far superior than many other power conditioning products in the market with different technology. It gives the biggest improvements. The noise floor will become much lower. Basically it is balanced (split) the 230v main into two 115V on live and neutral (Normal main power are 230v on live and 0v on neutral). The main power is further purified with a special designed Noise Screens between primary and secondary to remove unwanted frequency (noises). With the finest conductor and most accurate winding, our Balanced Power Isolation Platform(s) is runs at a very low temperature as well as with ultra low impedance, which is a crucial for high fidelity reproduction.



'John' one of the Art of sound members (http://theartofsound.net/forum/member.php?u=294) bought one last year and he is so happy about it and dumped his PS straight away!!!! He wrote the follow testimonial

‘’I live in 1930s semi detached house with an industrial estate nearby so in my systems I have found mains an issue. For the past 3 years I have used a PS Audio P500 to good effect. I came across the My Audio Design balanced power transformer while auditioning some ATC active speakers, the difference between the system with balanced power and without was huge.

I arranged a home demo, it took about 2 days for it to fully bed in and sound at its best, it was clear the sound floor levels has improved to me this s the ultimate test of a system; it sounds dynamic at lower volumes. I guess the main thing I really notice is naturalness to the sound I am find myself just relaxing into the music more; yet dynamics detail an soundstage have all improved. I prefer it to my P500 which I now have sold; but I guess it’s the difference it makes if I did not use any power improvements at all and that difference is night and day. Without its help everything becomes messy, hard, lacking in focus, tiring and big decrease in dynamics and bass. Before this upgrade I was thinking of changing my speakers but now longer feel this need’’

Ali Tait
05-09-2009, 20:12
Someone I know has done this and found it a very worthwhile improvement.No need to pay these totally ridiculous prices though,see here-

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced-power-supplies.asp

Will do the same thing but at a sane price.

NRG
06-09-2009, 09:27
Yes, Ali and without the marketing Bull....

DSJR
06-09-2009, 09:44
Modern designs are supposed to be more immune to mains rf problems anyway and I doubt that the valve amp owners here would need one IMO.

Both my sets of active ATC's definitely sounded better with cheap cable-ferrites on the mains and signal leads, especially the mains cables. I was living in Luton then and with the dreadful mains quality around there back then, we needed all the help we can get.

If you can afford such an expensive option and your gear is sensitive to bad mains, go for it...

Ali Tait
06-09-2009, 10:05
Well I haven't tried this myself,but a friend on the Audio-Talk forum was having some house renovations done and decided to have a balanced supply fitted in his listening room at the same time.He said it was quite a significant improvement.The link I posted looks an even easier way to do it as the transformer just plugs into a socket and you plug your kit into the transformer-no need to rewire the house! I would say a 2kva trannie would be more than ample to run your hi-fi,so not an expensive proposition really,though I note they do a more expensive version with filtering.Might get one sometime.

John
06-09-2009, 11:27
I do not really understand mains so my experiences is based on what I hear in the context of the enviorment I live in
I use balanced mains in my system and I often think its the foundation that allows everything else to work at its Optimun without it the bass will become sloppy and everything sounds muffled. I have friends who are mains sceptics who when I change the power supply can hear the difference straight away
As All says there are few products out there and the cheaper ones might be just as good I would love to hear one to know for sure!
I use the a protype MAD balanced mains looking at the size of the transformer I would say most of the costs have gone into that it weighs about 25KG
In my system having good mains makes a huge difference but this will depend on the mains in your home

leo
06-09-2009, 11:50
marketing Bull....

Plenty of it about too Neal! gives us good at smelling it a mile off a good laugh at least;)

Ali Tait
06-09-2009, 12:06
Looking at the airlink transformers,they certainly don't look undersized! From what MAD says,theirs is in an oak box and has a slab of granite under it so I guess that would account for a lot of the weight.

John
06-09-2009, 12:13
not the case Al i have the prototype which is just in a woodern frame so all the weight is in the transformer; but this does not mean the other company model is not as good

Ali Tait
06-09-2009, 12:20
Yes indeed.What is the VA rating of yours?

John
06-09-2009, 12:31
I have no idea sorry Ali

MAD
19-09-2009, 23:33
Yes indeed.What is the VA rating of yours?

Hi,

John bought a 2kva one. You can arrange a home demo if you like. When compare with the 3kva Russ Andrews one, we are almost half the price and doubled in weight albeit we are only 2kva. The one selling by RA is designed and manufacture by TEC. In fact John was about his PS P500 until he discovered our one incidentally, he came for a demo on ATC originally.

MAD
19-09-2009, 23:37
:gig:The Balanced Power Isolation Platform is designed with a centre-tapped secondary winding consisting of two identical mirrored symmetrical secondary windings in series with a special copper alloy screen. When the centre tap is grounded, these two identical windings cancel-out the equal amplitude but opposite-phased noise current, and greatly attenuate low to medium frequency common-mode noise. Ground noise is reduced to zero, liberating the audio signal from another source of noise interference. Our BPIP blocks the transmission of DC signals from one circuit to the other, but allow AC signals to pass; it also blocks interference caused by ground loops. Moreover, our balanced transformers are designed with very low flux density to further reduce mechanical noise. You can expect a substantial 10dB – 30dB reduction of noise. Unlike inefficient Power Regeneration products, which seek to totally regenerate the mains supply, our BPIP runs at 90% + efficiency. This means extremely low operating temperatures compared to Power Regeneration products – some of which run very hot indeed, Our BPIP only deals with whatever is necessary to correct the impurity of the mains power. With this device in your system, you can expect a fuller cleaner sound across the entire audio bandwidth. Moreover, this improvement is not obtained at the expensive of transient attack of dynamics.

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 09:51
Hi,

John bought a 2kva one. You can arrange a home demo if you like. When compare with the 3kva Russ Andrews one, we are almost half the price and doubled in weight albeit we are only 2kva. The one selling by RA is designed and manufacture by TEC. In fact John was about his PS P500 until he discovered our one incidentally, he came for a demo on ATC originally.

Well no offence to you sir,but £1800 for yours versus just over £300 for the Airlink version.I know which I'd choose...

anthonyTD
20-09-2009, 10:02
hi all,
i definately agree with mr MAD on how a good balanced mains supply would have a cancelation affect on some of the noise problems caused by bad mains supply, i have been aware for many years the diffrence a good mains supply can bring, thats why all my system is run from my own dedicated isolation supply. the mains supply in the USA has as far as i am aware always been balanced line, ie; two lives unlike our system which of course has a live and a neutral, not sure how they implement the centre tap mind you.
anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 10:20
Hi Anthony,
A friend from another forum has recently had his supply converted to balanced and noted it has made a substantial improvement.I fancy trying this myself!

anthonyTD
20-09-2009, 10:26
Hi Anthony,
A friend from another forum has recently had his supply converted to balanced and noted it has made a substantial improvement.I fancy trying this myself!
hi ali,
do it, its well worth the effort, however, use the largest transformer you can get away with, ie; with the thickest windings to maintain a low impedance.
regards,anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 11:30
I'll look inot it.

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 11:33
Looking at the Airlink site,what do you reckon? Better to go for the 2kva with filtering,or te 5kva without?
I'va mailed them for impedance information for each.

anthonyTD
20-09-2009, 12:32
Looking at the Airlink site,what do you reckon? Better to go for the 2kva with filtering,or te 5kva without?
I'va mailed them for impedance information for each.
h ali,
my prefrence would be to go for the 5kv, then if you notice a big improvement you can always add aditional filtering afterwards if the need arises.
regards,anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 13:56
Yes good point,I have a filter I made in any case.

aquapiranha
20-09-2009, 14:26
I have just bought one of the BT MCU 5A/500 units. I have not yet tried it and I wanted it only because I was getting the occasional thud when the 'fridge/ freezer switched on/off. It cost £45 and I will report my findings when I have everything sorted. £3K is more than the price of a complete rewire! bonkers!

Barry
20-09-2009, 17:49
I have just bought one of the BT MCU 5A/500 units. I have not yet tried it and I wanted it only because I was getting the occasional thud when the 'fridge/ freezer switched on/off. It cost £45 and I will report my findings when I have everything sorted. £3K is more than the price of a complete rewire! bonkers!

What is a BT MCU 5A/500? All that was likely to be needed was a 0.1uF, 400V capacitor wired across the fridge/freezer thermostat contacts. Cost, about 50p.

Regards

aquapiranha
20-09-2009, 17:55
It is a unit made for BT to provide clean spike free mains to the small exchange units for commercial premises. I also have an issue with the flourescent strip lamp in the kitchen. this will do until I add a seperate spur.

Barry
20-09-2009, 18:00
It is a unit made for BT to provide clean spike free mains to the small exchange units for commercial premises. I also have an issue with the flourescent strip lamp in the kitchen. this will do until I add a separate spur.

Ah! If it has a current capacity of 5A then £45 seems a not unreasonable price. Are they available to domestic users?

Regards

aquapiranha
20-09-2009, 18:42
Ah! If it has a current capacity of 5A then £45 seems a not unreasonable price. Are they available to domestic users?

Regards

Barry, I got from from a retailer called Item Audio. I have seen them on ebay occasionally. It is 2A continuous output, I image the '5' relates to peak.

HTH

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 18:58
I've been doing a bit of reading about this,and some say using a toroid for this is a bad idea,and may even make things worse,due to the wide bandwidth produced by toroids.Better to use an E/I due to the more limited bandwidth.Anyone have any comments about this?

aquapiranha
20-09-2009, 19:01
I've been doing a bit of reading about this,and some say using a toroid for this is a bad idea,and may even make things worse,due to the wide bandwidth produced by toroids.Better to use an E/I due to the more limited bandwidth.Anyone have any comments about this?

the BT has a standard frame trafo, and a couple of mean looking caps and one or two resistors

Ali Tait
20-09-2009, 20:23
Be interested in how it sounds.

HighFidelityGuy
21-09-2009, 10:31
I don't really know much about balanced mains transformers but I did spend some time researching mains conditioners recently. I'm not talking about the filtered mains blocks, I'm talking about proper big units that recreate the AC by first converting it to DC and then back to AC, so your getting a pure sine wave. After comparing quite a few on paper, the PurePower 2000i (http://www.purepoweraps.com/pdf/2000%20tech%20specs.pdf) seemed to be the most impressive sounding/looking (on paper). Not only does it give you pure AC, isolated from the original mains, it also includes a UPS which can protect your system from power surges and sags and can power your system for a few minutes in the event of a power cut, giving you time to turn it off properly. This was sounding good enough to me already but the really unique feature is it's ability to use it's UPS batteries to supplement the mains supply when your system is drawing more power than the mains can supply. This is great if you have a powerful system as dynamics should be improved. So basically it can provide more power to your system than a standard 13A mains socket can on it's own. It even looks really nice. Unfortunately, there's always a "but" and this time it's the price. It's about £3000 if memory serves me. AngelSound (http://www.angelsoundaudio.co.uk/) are the main UK supplier. So if your thinking of dropping £3000 on a simple transformer, I suggest you check this out as well as it's got tons more features for the money. Perhaps you could get a few different things on trial and compare them. I know Russ Andrews has a money back guarantee, perhaps others do something similar.

Other units worth looking into are the PS Audio Power Plant Premier (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/power-plant-premier) and the Isotek Titan and Nova (http://www.isoteksystems.com/en/prods.asp). These units are similar to the PurePower but seem to lack some of the UPS and power supplementation features. I believe they are cheaper though.

Please note, I've not tried anything like this in my actual system, I'm just going on specs and reviews. I'd suggest a thorough home comparison. :)

I'd also suggest that you get your electrician to give all your house wiring a thorough check over, paying particular attention to the earthing. Perhaps get them to renew all the earth bonding points to make sure they've got an excellent connection. Then see what your system sounds like with your new wiring and take it from there. :)

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 13:00
hi all,
in my view, and experience the best method is indeed to re-create an isolated clean mains supply as described in the last post, i remember a friend of mine borrowed a unit from sony a few years ago, at the time i think the retail price tag was around £4,000 or it may have even been £40,000 and it was indeed a huge improvement over standard mains supply, but as stated by others you have to be able to justify spending these sums on mains conditioners, most i feel cannot, so the next best thing is [IMHO] a balanced transformer AND carefully designed aditional filtering if needed.
regards,anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 15:23
Have been doing a bit of digging and have found JMS Transformers,who will do a 3kva balanced trannie in an enclosure for about 180 quid delivered.Pretty good I thought.E/I transformer too.Writing this on my phone so can't post a link until I get home tonight,if anyone's interested!

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 15:30
Have been doing a bit of digging and have found JMS Transformers,who will do a 3kva balanced trannie in an enclosure for about 180 quid delivered.Pretty good I thought.E/I transformer too.Writing this on my phone so can't post a link until I get home tonight,if anyone's interested!

hi ali,
JMS will also supply a 10kva with I and E core for around £350-00!!!
regards,anthony,TD...

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 16:13
Yeah good value aren't they.10kva a bit overkill don't you think?

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 16:18
Yeah good value aren't they.10kva a bit overkill don't you think?
hi ali,
not realy, add up all the typical continous consumption you are going to use, including your valve amps and see what you have in wattage and convert it to VA rating you may be surprised.
regards,A...

leo
21-09-2009, 17:54
Who's going to try one of the JMS jobs then? I'm sure a lot of folks would love to know (me included) how one of these really do compare against the pricey alternatives

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 18:45
I'll probably get one at some point.Anthony,I got a reply from Airlink about the impedance.The 2kva is 0.46 ohms,and the 5kva is 0.16 ohms,better but would it really make such a difference?

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 19:29
I'll probably get one at some point.Anthony,I got a reply from Airlink about the impedance.The 2kva is 0.46 ohms,and the 5kva is 0.16 ohms,better but would it really make such a difference?
hi ali,
the main reason over spec'd power supplies make such a diffrence on pieces of kit like pre-amps and source equipment is because they have lower impedance, so the same theory applies here, therfore it makes sense to go for the lowest posible impedance transformer you can afford, also the larger the VA the less likely it is that you will saturate it!
i hope this helps.
regards,anthony,TD...

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 19:34
of course you could also go down the route of using multiple smaller transformers for each piece of equipment, but it gets a bit messy and extra wiring will increases total system impedance.
A...

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 19:42
Yes I appreciate that Anthony,but what I meant was,va rating aside,is 0.16 ohms versus 0.46 ohms really going to make any practical difference?

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 19:49
Yes I appreciate that Anthony,but what I meant was,va rating aside,is 0.16 ohms versus 0.46 ohms really going to make any practical difference?
hi ali,
lowering the impedance of a power supply will always make a diffrence, where to stop[IMHO] is always down to impracticality, and deminishing returns!
A...

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 19:51
Well yes agreed! I just wondered what difference I'd hear now in my system.Guess I'll just have to try one and see.

anthonyTD
21-09-2009, 20:03
Well yes agreed! I just wondered what difference I'd hear now in my system.Guess I'll just have to try one and see.
hi ali,
sorry, i see,,,
the bass should tighten up and become more realistic, soundstage and depth will improve, and with the lower noise floor thanks to the common mode rejection you should get an improvement in intimate detail.
A...

Ali Tait
21-09-2009, 20:19
Yes,should notice a difference given I use statics,with their fine detail retrieval.

HighFidelityGuy
22-09-2009, 10:13
This sounds interesting. Just to check, is this the 10KVA model: LINK (http://www.jmsonline.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=169)
And would it need to be configured as 0/220/230/240 on the primary and secondary coils?

Thanks.

Ali Tait
22-09-2009, 11:57
When you order,there is a comments box.Just state you want 115/0/115 on the secondary.Or order by phone.

Ali Tait
22-09-2009, 12:06
The one I was looking at is the 3kva one in the wall mounted transformer section.

HighFidelityGuy
22-09-2009, 13:04
Thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be ordering one any time too soon but I'll add it to my list of things to try in the future. I'm planning on tying a number of mains conditioning products once I've finished upgrading the rest of my system.