View Full Version : avondale dual mono S100 ENDEAVOUR power amp kit
The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 20:25
anyone got any thoughts on this here bad boy?
http://avondaleaudio.com/naim-amplifiers-nap-250/
obviously im not looking at going down these lines just yet, i have to much other fish to fry.. its just out of interest for future referance!
if anyone is interested in how i got to looking at this:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=67930
also note the very different "tone" (scuse the pun) of the forum.. twas quite an intense a convo! still got to the point in the end
Covenant
02-09-2009, 20:40
Avondale are highly regarded and I imagine this will be a superb product. However it does seem expensive for a kit. Have a look at the Aussy ones made by SKA which also come complete with case. I also like the look of Coldamp, lots of info on their website-this is Class D design.
Most of the kits appear to offer a significant saving and when you add the generous offer to build it for you on this very forum you just cant go wrong.
The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 20:47
I take your point!
But It's the synergy with naim kit that has got me to this point! It is also pretty much built amp.. You only need to click in a few wires!
also note the very different "tone" (scuse the pun) of the forum.. twas quite an intense a convo! still got to the point in the end
You guys certainly do get more eggy with each other than I'm used on my regular forum! We are all entitled to our own opinions after all!!
:D:D:D
Can't help you on the amps though Mate!
The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 22:24
it was like a bombardment of of anger ... to be fair i think i touched a nerve
OK, I was going to raise this on another thread, but thought better of it at the time, but it's late and I've poured the 3rd glass... Can someone give a relative newbie a potted history of what the "problem" is with Linn & Naim kit? I'd always thought they were well regarded, but that is probably just a product of the corporate marketing machine - I have no experience of either - but I have definitely picked up on the "negative" vibes on here, whether intended or not... (lights blue touchpaper, and retires... ;) )
Hi Alex,
Sounds like a great idea for a separate thread in Blank Canvas, to which I'd be more than happy to contibute my considerable experience in that area ;)
Marco.
P.S Hamish, see what happens when you go and play with the bad boys! :eyebrows:
The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 23:41
OK, I was going to raise this on another thread, but thought better of it at the time, but it's late and I've poured the 3rd glass... Can someone give a relative newbie a potted history of what the "problem" is with Linn & Naim kit? I'd always thought they were well regarded, but that is probably just a product of the corporate marketing machine - I have no experience of either - but I have definitely picked up on the "negative" vibes on here, whether intended or not... (lights blue touchpaper, and retires... ;) )
as a naim user i too would like to contribute to that!!
The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 23:47
P.S Hamish, see what happens when you go and play with the bad boys! :eyebrows:
i did feel like i was returning home when i posted back here!
sometime you gotta go where the guys in the know are i.e. the manufactures of avondale
i would cetainly recomend someone come here for info on 1210's and anything beresford
Oh I completely understand, matey. Les from Avondale is a member of AOS, but rarely posts - too many valve heads here and folk who build their own kit to make it worth his while, I suppose! ;)
Marco.
P.S Seems like Alex has resisted the temptation to start the thread...
P.S Seems like Alex has resisted the temptation to start the thread...
Now on the case, I was too knackered last night!
I have an Avondale A260 and it is a great amp. I upgraded to it from biamped Naim 250's and it was a big upgrade (lower bass and much more control).
The kit looks very similar to the 260 at at £900.00 is a steal. The NCC200 boards have a good following and these alone retail for around £250.00.
Best to ask around on PFM though as it is also a really great forum just like AoS.
Regards
Chris
Hamish
I read your thread on PFM and in case you missed my post I'll repeat here, you could do much worse than getting Darren@ClassA to service your 82;);).
Cheers
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 11:35
ok cheers guys... im getting crossforumconfusion here
chris what is a a260 then can i get a link to it on the avondale site.. i cant find anything on thier
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 12:12
well i have just had a nice chat with a s100 owner from bromsgrove.. just up the road from me... hes going to pop round and let me have a listen... good news!
Hi Hamish,
The A260z is no longer offered by Les but you can still build one. It is similar to the S100 except that it has a single 750 trafo. The S100 has 2 smaller trafos (dual mono). The A260 needs a bigger case to house the trafo which I don't think Les offers any more.
Regards
Chris
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 12:40
Hi Hamish,
The A260z is no longer offered by Les but you can still build one. It is similar to the S100 except that it has a single 750 trafo. The S100 has 2 smaller trafos (dual mono). The A260 needs a bigger case to house the trafo which I don't think Les offers any more.
Regards
Chris
cheers, i just had a similar reply from the man himself!
its all VERY interesting this avondale stuff!!
Avondale Audio
03-09-2009, 17:35
Hello Hamish and everyone.
I'm so sorry you were privy to the reaction to your query as seems pretty normal on PFM. It's largely down to one zealot who firmly believes he's the one to keep the flame alive for Naim - many of you here will know who I mean.
Anyways, there was much help available for Hamish amid the melee (Naim devotees can be a vicious tribe when awoken from their slumbers) and I'm sure he'll be looked after right royally.
As for posting rarely on here, I tend not to post anywhere very much, mainly for lack of time I'm sorry to report. I do look in from time to time and will answer any queries directly related to what I do.
Wishing you all well,
Les - Avondale Audio - Chesterfield UK
Chris,
thanks for your comment on the other thread regarding the Avondale 821 boards - as it happens I was already preparing to order some. I'm planning to compare them with a pair of Neil Jadman's 321/729 boards, coming on loan through the post any time soon.
Just wondering, do you know how your A260Z would compare to the S100?
Cheers
I've built a pair of the Avondale NCC200 mono's, actually just brought the pcbs because I had majority of components needed back then for the build so it was quite a cheap project, I have a few other bits from them too like psu's (regulated and raw DC) and also a line stage using their audio grade 821 boards.
Sound wise their very good, TBH I've never been a fan of Naims amps (I'm not going into it why here) so wasn't expecting to like the Avondale amps either, they did have quite lot of hype on Pinkfish so of course I had to give them a try anyway:) after giving things chance to burn in and sit down for a listen I was quite surprised. Its not as flat and lacking the 3d depth as a lot of other classA/B amps I've tried, bass is pretty full and deep too, main thing is it plays music well!
Lots of stuff has come and gone here and the NCC200's is one of the few amps I've kept in the collection
A bit of advice, I wouldn't be tempted by the cheap Avondale and Naim clone modules found on ebay unless you are very confident in fault finding, those things can cause problems;)
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 17:53
I am now bored of the stupid bickering that has distracted from my queery in the pfm. The following is directly copied from over there in the hope I might get an answer here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Stockwell
It's similiar, may even be the same as, to the S100, mine has dual 350VA transfos, the NC200 boards, etc, it also has the choice of DIN or RCA inputs.
Built it came in at less than £1200, excluding delivery.
(my reply)
a choice of inputs would be useful, is that possible with the s100?
i will initially be using it with the 82 (and what is more and more looking likely, a dtc - you might well be the blame for that too peter - but i do like the idea of the 3 power supplys for the 82 in one box and all for £500!) but i may well one day move away from the 82 as well... so it would be nice to be able to not have to worry about future compatibility
as a side note... i just been in the bank and they offered me a loan... its not what you need when you have these type of temptations rattleing around your brain is it.....
im not going to get a loan....but .... i was tempted fo a second!!
Hello Hamish and everyone.
I'm so sorry you were privy to the reaction to your query as seems pretty normal on PFM. It's largely down to one zealot who firmly believes he's the one to keep the flame alive for Naim - many of you here will know who I mean.
Anyways, there was much help available for Hamish amid the melee (Naim devotees can be a vicious tribe when awoken from their slumbers) and I'm sure he'll be looked after right royally.
As for posting rarely on here, I tend not to post anywhere very much, mainly for lack of time I'm sorry to report. I do look in from time to time and will answer any queries directly related to what I do.
Wishing you all well,
Les - Avondale Audio - Chesterfield UK
Nice to see you on here Les, hope your well:)
BTW I think you've had that Zealot buzzing around for long enough now for people to know what he is:lol:
Welcome Les..
Alex, the Linn/Naim thang is ancient history now and I'll leave Marco to tell you his story here or on another thread...
Basically, the Linn LP12 turntable design was *influenced* by the Ariston Rd11 from the early 70's, which Linn's manufacturing facility manufactured at the time (there's a HUGE back story, but not from me at this point). the RD11 was basically a "blue-printed" Thorens TD150 and many of the basic dimensions of the decks are shared. The LP12 needed a vehicle to get it established and Ivor pushed the "turntables sound different and ours is *Simply Better*" line. His bullishness paid off handsomely for decades in the UK...
Julian Vereker was a talented graduate who got into electronics, I believe, because he couldn't find anything on the open market to satisfy him. He worked on some Wireless World/RCA (?) designs and made a few custom amps up and this snowballed. The success and *individuality* of the early Naim designs came to Linn's attention and the rest is history, Naim in the early days riding on Linn's success and marketing.
The issue today is that the eighties and nineties vintage Naim products (the "CB" and "Olive") models are bought by people who seem to think they're new... (I wonder how much of the over-priced current range actually sels in the UK?). The amp designs are old, quasi-complimentary designs from a period when high-current output transistors didn't exist. Whereas Quad moved on as they were able to, Naim didn't, and the compromises in their designs and the basic standard components they use, means that some critical feedback capacitors in the preamps take ages to "form" and the supply caps are run very hard, voltage wise IIRC, which shortens their life when run 24/7 as many of the "in" crowd do.. Also, the power-amp voltages drift all over the place, especially when running in and the distortion spectrum offers significant crossover and high-order artifacts, things which modern ss amps banish to the history books I understand from those that know these things.
What Les at Avondale does, is to drag these old circuits kicking and screaming into the 21st century as best as they can be, using good quality components, careful setup and a Zobel network to re-introduce stability into the amp design;) (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong above...). The Avondale preamp circuits apparently sound less "Naim" and more "neutral," whereas the mods done by "Teddy" tend to develop the naim character further as I understand.
There is a character on that other site who is apparently an uncharacteristic member of a certain esoteric fraternity, who believes everything that has come out of the Salisbury factory is perfection and should NOT be bodged or modified in any way. The fact that he ran his speakers out-of-phase for some time I understand, tells its own story I think:)
The Grand Wazoo
03-09-2009, 18:55
His bullishness paid off handsomely
Something wrong with your spelling there, Dave?
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 19:02
The fact that he ran his speakers out-of-phase for some time I understand, tells its own story I think:)
how is that possible, it makes my brain go wierd when speakers are out of phase
anyone who wouldnt notice that should get another hobby i recon
Hello Hamish and everyone.
I'm so sorry you were privy to the reaction to your query as seems pretty normal on PFM. It's largely down to one zealot who firmly believes he's the one to keep the flame alive for Naim - many of you here will know who I mean.
Anyways, there was much help available for Hamish amid the melee (Naim devotees can be a vicious tribe when awoken from their slumbers) and I'm sure he'll be looked after right royally.
As for posting rarely on here, I tend not to post anywhere very much, mainly for lack of time I'm sorry to report. I do look in from time to time and will answer any queries directly related to what I do.
Wishing you all well,
Les - Avondale Audio - Chesterfield UK
Hi Les,
Nice to see you popping in. I hope business is good (it seems that way), and most importantly, you're keeping well yourself :)
Don't be such a stranger in future :cool:
Take care.
Marco.
Something wrong with your spelling there, Dave?
My training as a generalist adviser tells me to be un-biased and impartial ;) VERY difficult where subjective opinion and personal experiences clash on audio forums :)
In the mid seventies, Ivor demonstrated to me that, in fact, an LP12/Grace 707/Supex 900E sounded *better* than a Technics SL120/G707/Supex 900E using Naim amps and I forget the speakers (don't think it was 'Briks then). The fact that we didn't have dedicated supports back then and the SL120 is a VERY feedback prone device in standard form didn't help. The 707/Supex combo did sound very good on an Lp12 of the period, the fruity bass well in control. It was the arrival of the Ittok and CB Naims in 1980 that really put the cat amongst the pidgeons as I recall ;)
What I like about PFM is that you get all shades of opinion. The obvious trolls and timewasters soon 'out' themselves, and there's a wealth of knowledge in there.
Where "non" Linn/Naim is concerned, there's plenty of knowledge here too... I found the constant rucks elsewhere about stuff I wrote off decades ago more than a bit boring, hence my boring you guys here too much - ahem...
S'OK, I can handle boredom too. I did Economics A level.
Where "non" Linn/Naim is concerned, there's plenty of knowledge here too... I found the constant rucks elsewhere about stuff I wrote off decades ago more than a bit boring, hence my boring you guys here too much - ahem...
Your earlier post was far from boring, and very informative, and anyway, I did ask, didn't I? :lol:
Thanks everyone else, and I look forward to Marco's instalment in the fullness of time...
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 20:34
theres some thred cross polonation going on ere! :)
The Grand Wazoo
03-09-2009, 20:40
My training as a generalist adviser tells me to be un-biased and impartial ;) VERY difficult where subjective opinion and personal experiences clash on audio forums :)
In the mid seventies, Ivor demonstrated to me that, in fact, an LP12/Grace 707/Supex 900E sounded *better* than a Technics SL120/G707/Supex 900E using Naim amps and I forget the speakers (don't think it was 'Briks then). The fact that we didn't have dedicated supports back then and the SL120 is a VERY feedback prone device in standard form didn't help. The 707/Supex combo did sound very good on an Lp12 of the period, the fruity bass well in control. It was the arrival of the Ittok and CB Naims in 1980 that really put the cat amongst the pidgeons as I recall ;)
Here's a theory:
Despite my thinking that a lot of what he has said was a load of old loblocks, we should give him a little slack.
In the UK we're not really used to manufacturers being good salesmen. It's a fatal failing for UK industry & has been for decades. When someone comes along who makes something, but also happens to speak like a salesman, we are rather taken aback.
If a salesman says those very same things to us, we know the rules of the game & so we realise it's part of the blether & we take it for the patter that it is.
When a manufacturer, a beast that we're conditioned to regard as a quiet retiring sort of fellah, starts behaving like that, we're kind of more aggressive in our response and are somehow offended that we could be fed such crap.
Yes?
No?
Maybe?
theres some thred cross polonation going on ere! :)
There certainly bloody is, even I thought I'd replied on the other one! Sorry Hamish - it's obviously a very emotive subject - but please can this thread be left for Hamish's Avondale discussions - the other thread is here: What's the problem with Linn & Naim (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3772) where I rather foolishly asked the question! :mental:
The Vinyl Adventure
03-09-2009, 21:38
I don't mind, I have all the answers I needed from here/pfm regarding this subject. and have said my slightly ott bit ;) I did have somthing else to say but I can't remember what it was and who it was a reply too ... And I'm not fussed enough to go through both threads again.. I'm fairly certain it wasn't to important..
steveinspain
24-09-2009, 20:37
My addition to this thread is that I used to have a Naim CDX/XPS, 52/Supercap, 250 and SBL's. I loved it, but then I heard an Avondaled amp.
I sold most of the stereo and now have an Avondaled Naim 102pre, TPX2 power supply, CD3 CDP, and a 250 and 160 amp - Avondaled, as is all of it. I even have some RMS Rev1 speakers, made by Avondale - who else ! Only my vinyl isn't Avondale..
As I see it, I have, or had, a wodge of cash and a better sounding stereo, by a long way. My 52/Supercap were just serviced, and I tried out half a dozen different CD players in my attempt to find what I wanted.
I post on PFM under the same name, and used to be a part of the Naim forum, until the policing got to me..
My feeling are that you do need to live with a stereo to find out if it is right for you, and Avondale do allow home trials, so well worth a listen. My limited experience in buying stereo shows me that a decent time to evaluate is not likely in a demo room, but a home trial is worth every penny.
Should you be passing by the south of Spain, pop in and have a listen some time !
Thanks for the offer :)
Mr Wazoo sir, I agree with your post above. Audio manufacturers' proprietors actively plugging their products is a strange thing indeed and a VERY fine line to walk, as Ashley (AVI) has found, his ideas regarding the "future" of audio coupled with his persistancy causing all sorts of battles. The fact remains though, that his speakers are actually very good for a small monitor (not for lovers of huge Tannoys etc)
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