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View Full Version : Our Man in (..or just on the edge of..) Nirvana



The Grand Wazoo
02-09-2009, 11:18
OK so we seem to have established in Dave's thread 'The Vain Pursuit of Excellence' (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3723) that Hi-Fi Nirvana doesn't actually exist. But we certainly all agree that excellence does exist, & not only that, it is attainable. As such, it's a state that's well worth striving for.

However, while searching for the excellence that we all aspire to, I'm sure many of us have seen & heard flashes of that non-existant Nirvana.

I'm talking about set ups or components that are/were flawed gems. They display elements that rank them with the very best, but something lets them down. Glimses of true magnificence like this are what keeps alive the spark of hope that there is a hi-fi holy grail in the minds of many folks.

So, I'm wondering:

1. What were the best set ups or components you've ever heard?
2. Why were they so good?
3. Was there some fatal flaw and if so, what was it and do you think it could be overcome somehow?
4. What have you taken away from the experience (hopefully not the gear in question, hidden under your jumper!) &,
5. Were you able to put the knowledge you gained to use in some way in your own system?

Cheers

The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 13:08
This maybe a touch contrivercial on this site? But I have mentioned it before - the best set up I have heard was a naim referance system at uhes when it was at rodbough castle!
It was the cd555 with a lot of other boxes (I couldn't name them all) going into the naim dbl's sat on a ass load of isolation platforms!
I have never heard emotion portrayed in music reproduction like that! I literally couldn't turn it up loud enough - i listened to dsotm and Siamese dream by smashing pumpkins - the detail was mind blowing, there was so much in the vocals. It literally had a really profoud effect on me, I was phisically shaking!
The flaws: for me, only cost and size! But if I had the money to afford a hifi like that I'd be able to afford a house big enough to justify the space!
The result was confirmation that I wanted a naim hifi! So I bought one! Ironically of course I ended up not liking it - thankfully that turned out to be poor choise of source (the cd63ki and cd5 are very shouty through my amps)
now I have a source I'm happy with, it still pleases me that I hear a tiny fraction of the sound I heard in that ref system. I'm sure people on here will tell me that for the £1300 I paid for my 82/hc/180 I could get a something better (and prob more importantly not naim) but I love the sound I get from my system. and that's partly down to that faitfull day up at uhes!
I have since also heard some awesome kit, including Adam tensor's which I loved! But I have still not heard anything that did everything that was, to my ear, as good as that naim! That to me was nirvana!!

DSJR
02-09-2009, 13:23
Highlights for me were some big IMF's playing a master tape of Hendon Brass Band, DSOTM and Mandingo III, a friends early 'Brik tri-amp system - much more involving and no harshness at all compared to Naim's finest later on and finally, some ATC SCM200A's with the most awsome dynamics and from a fairly humble but well sorted source too. My own stereo's over the years pale into insignificance compared to these..

twelvebears
02-09-2009, 14:06
For me, it would be the pair of Sonus Faber Extremas that I owned for about 2 years a while back.

The reason why they consituted a glimps at Nivana wasn't actually due to the speakers themselves, they were absolutely epic, and apart from possible concerns about the way the looked, were I alI had ever wanted in a speaker:- stunning dynamics, focus and sound-stage, plus the ability to deliver sound levels and bass that simply defied belief from what was a 2-way stand mount (although a bloody big one).

No the trouble was that they weren't allowed to shine because the rest of the system wasn't up to the task and the room they were in REALLY wasn't up to it.....

At the time, I was post-divorce and actually OK for money, hence why I had a pair (second hand) in the 1st place, but I wasn't sorted enough to have a place of my own and they were confined to a bedroom. When the time for my own place came, I need the cash and they had to go.... :(

System at the time was MF 3D CDP, M3 amp and Kimber Select and BiFocal cables. Looking back, and based on my set up now, I'm pretty convinced that what I needed (apart from a bigger room) was a decent analogue source.

REM
02-09-2009, 15:07
Not really sure of Nirvana but I have to agree with Hamish, those Naim DBLs, properly driven, are something to behold. I heard them 10 years or so ago at a show at Manchester airport, it was my introduction to the Patrica Barber Modern Cool album and exactly as Hamish said it's a physical experience that can leave you emotionally drained, not something for the fainthearted. They followed up Ms Barber with The La's 'There She Goes'...bloody hell even now just hearing the opening to that song takes me straight back there, amazing.

Cheers

DanJennings
02-09-2009, 15:18
This maybe a touch contrivercial on this site? But I have mentioned it before - the best set up I have heard was a naim referance system at uhes when it was at rodbough castle!
It was the cd555 with a lot of other boxes (I couldn't name them all) going into the naim dbl's sat on a ass load of isolation platforms!
I have never heard emotion portrayed in music reproduction like that! I literally couldn't turn it up loud enough - i listened to dsotm and Siamese dream by smashing pumpkins - the detail was mind blowing, there was so much in the vocals. It literally had a really profoud effect on me, I was phisically shaking!

Is this the system I heard when I went up there Hamish? Not the most expensive but the next one down?
If so, I agree.... we listened to Tool - 10,000 Days and it was unlike anything I've ever heard

The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 15:25
yeah it was dan... bloody awesome wasnt it!!
which raises the a point a had forgotten the naim set up wiped the floor with the dynaudio referance speakers and mono blocs at about half the price... and its hard to imagine the naim ref system being half the price of anything realy!!

DanJennings
02-09-2009, 16:42
I seem to remember the other system costing 5 times as much, ie half a mill

The Vinyl Adventure
02-09-2009, 17:15
yeah, but that was including all the suround sound set up too! £15,000 sim3 projector 5 more ref series dynaudio speakers, i think the sacd player they had running was £25,000. fully automated lighting, curtains, cinema screen! christ knows what else they had running in there?!
the front speakers and amps alone were £230,000

The Grand Wazoo
03-09-2009, 14:21
Flashes of brilliance, flawed gems…….

Well, I have had one or two exposures to this phenomenon over the years.

My most memorable experience listening to audio gear came from a short while in the company of the Beveridge loudspeakers. I think Howard Popeck mentioned these in a previous thread here.

The Beveridge was an innovative design using actively driven electrostatic drivers within a sealed back enclosure. The later Quad speakers used an electrical delay network in order to produce a spherical wavefront to replicate a point source. The Beveridge approach to this conundrum was to force the soundwaves from the wide panel through a narrow vertical aperture. This 'acoustic lens' has the effect of bending the line source through 180 degrees to create a semi-cylinder.

The system I heard had an Elite Rock (it may have been Rock Reference) / Excaliber / Decca Gold front end that had been provided, along with the speakers, by Max Townsend, who was present.

When it first fired up, I was in the next room & all I knew was that I was in the presence of greatness – not the hi-fi, but Frank Sinatra! As far as I was concerned he was there, in that room next door, belting it out like a good 'un (funnily enough, apparently Sinatra actually had a pair)

Apparently, Harold Beveridge built his first electrostatic speaker in 1953, with stators made from sheets of slate with hundreds of holes drilled through them. His first stereo pair came in 1957 and he developed the acoustic lens and sealed-back cabinet by 1965. By 1972 Sony made an offer, which was refused, to buy all rights to the designs. This interest spurred the formation of a commercial company and the development of the Model 2 and the 2SW which added a subwoofer to the mix. In the early years, they were being sold at $500 less than they cost to make and the Model 3 was a failed attempt to reduce costs.

When I went into that room and sat down, I spent a good couple of hours listening to all sorts of music on this kit, including a new purchase of my own – 'First Circle' by Pat Metheny. The whole thing was a completely spellbinding experience.

For a technical description of Beveridge Speakers:
The Beveridge Audio Wave Front Technology
http://www.bevaudio.com/technical_details.html

History of their Development
http://www.bevaudio.com/history.html#Beveridge_Speakers,_history_of_develo pment

John
03-09-2009, 19:43
I am not sure if ever will reach that stage of Nirvana but I admit to having long periods of feeling very happy with the sound I am achieving right now

Ali Tait
03-09-2009, 20:32
Interesting what you say about statics Chris.I have been gobsmacked by what this direct-coupled amp can do with my statics.It does things I've never heard another amp do,yet it was just thrown together by the designer with what he had to hand.The sorted version will I think be nothing short of amazing.Won't happen for a while yet though. :(

The Grand Wazoo
03-09-2009, 20:42
Interesting what you say about statics Chris.I have been gobsmacked by what this direct-coupled amp can do with my statics.It does things I've never heard another amp do,yet it was just thrown together by the designer with what he had to hand.The sorted version will I think be nothing short of amazing.Won't happen for a while yet though. :(

Are yours the UK expat in Australia thingies, or am I thinking of someone else?
Just read your offer to Varun, that tells me yours are the ones I was thinking of

Macca
03-09-2009, 20:49
existant Nirvana.

I'm talking about set ups or components that are/

So, I'm wondering:

1. What were the best set ups or components you've ever heard?
2. Why were they so good?
3. Was there some fatal flaw and if so, what was it and do you think it could be overcome somehow?
4. What have you taken away from the experience (hopefully not the gear in question, hidden under your jumper!) &,
5. Were you able to put the knowledge you gained to use in some way in your own system?

Cheers

For me - a friend's system back in 1990:

1. 1970s Linn Sondek (cherry plinth) / 's' shape Basik arm/ Audio Technica MM (cheap one about £40 back then) / A & R Cambridge A60/ Wharfedale Diamond 4s

2. Incredibly musical -- just incredible. When I first heard it the lights were down and I was sat some way down a big room (about 35' by 14'). I recognised the Sondek but the sound was so good I assumed the little 'speakers were some £800 super-minature like AE 1s. Couldn't believe it when he told me - I had to walk over and check he wasn't having me on. Simplicity? Synergy? A combination of the two? You tell me...

3. Too long ago - I remember it was not that awesome with CD (cheap early Technics MASH effort) but cassette was treated well. No deep bass also, I suppose, but you did not notice - the music kept the attention.

4. What did I take away? You can spend £20K but if it ain't musical you ain't got nothing.

5. I still aspire to that musicality - I've come close in the past (Systemdek IIXe /Nagoaka MP30 /Denon PMA250 Mk1/Wharfedale CRS3 came close but did not do that magic trick with the bass in the way that system did.

All small potatoes I know; and a long time ago. 20 years on I'm inclined to think it is all akin to catching lightening in a bottle...

Martin

Alex_UK
03-09-2009, 21:39
Well Martin, maybe the mantra of "spend most on the source" was the truth to it? (forgetting Digital) it was always the advice I remember working too, still do, to a degree - an amp or speakers can only replicate what is "dug out" from the software at the beginning of the chain.

I can't add anything meaningful to this thread - I have no idea what the system was, but it was a friend's uncle's - early 80's - and it was what got me into wanting "a hi-fi" it must have been something special, as my Garrard 401/SME 3009 was one of his cast-offs! The only thing I can remember is that the speakers had control knobs on them, in my mind they were similar to Mike Homar's new Yamaha NS1000M's - but less red! ;)

I would love to know what the system was, but I never will!

Ali Tait
04-09-2009, 16:51
Are yours the UK expat in Australia thingies, or am I thinking of someone else?
Just read your offer to Varun, that tells me yours are the ones I was thinking of

Yep, ER audio is the name,though I have two pairs-The ESL III which I'm using at the moment,and the top of the range Acorns,which have been rewired for use with the direct-coupled amp.Not in use at the moment as one panel needs a new diaphragm.Need to got round to it soon!