View Full Version : 'Front end first' - yes, but make sure you go right to the very front...
Whilst listening to some tunes today through my newly-modified Yaqin power amp (and superb they sounded, too!) I was flicking through Issue 55 of Hi-Fi+, as one does - well not usually, but I was on this occasion, and I came across a rather interesting review by Steve Dickinson on the Nordost Tyr cable loom.
Actually, let me rephrase that - it's wasn't so much the main content of the review that was interesting, but rather the summary in his last paragraph. It ran thus:
The nay-sayers still maintain that cables (by which they mean interconnects and speaker cables) are, at best, expensive tone controls. And my experiences here would suggest that they have a point, up to a point. Certainly, exchanging the lesser cables for expensive Nordost ones wrought far less benefit initially than might be expected for the price. Until the mains was addressed, that is: that done, everything started to make much more sense. The difference between the two sets of cables is not just obvious, it is fundamental to the ultimate performance of the system. All of a sudden, the expense of the high-end cable is justifiable. It seems we have another hierarchical approach to consider and it starts way in front of the source. On the evidence of my own ears, properly designed mains leads and distribution boxes are crucial to getting the best performance out of your chosen hardware. FURTHER UPGRADES, WHETHER TO COMPONENTRY, INTERCONNECTS OR SPEAKER CABLES, ARE POINTLESS, UNTIL YOU KNOW HOW YOUR EXISTING EQUIPMENT SOUNDS WITH A PROPERLY SORTED MAINS FEED.
Front end first? You betcha, but only if you go right to the very front.
I found myself nodding in absolutely agreement with Mr Dickinson, as it represents my own particular ethos, and it's something I've been writing on hi-fi forums for years. I refer to it as the 'foundation' from which the system performs and ultimately it is fundamental to a system's convincing portrayal of music. The mains supply is the true 'source' not your CD player, turntable, or any other type of source component.
I sorted my 'mains feed' out years ago - and my stands, and more recently my interconnects and speaker cable. Consequently, the effect of every component upgrade I make is revealed to maximum effect, and one reason why my friends frequently use my system to assess their potential hi-fi purchases. It is also the main reason why I rarely feel the need to upgrade equipment - simply because the environment my existing equipment operates in is optimised and therefore I'm getting the most out of each box and the system as a whole.
So what I'd like to know is how do others stand on this issue? Do you agree that the quality of the mains feed is fundamental to the performance of a hi-fi system, and indeed the subsequent interconnects and speaker cable used, as I have outlined above, or ultimately are the boxes the most important factor and cables simply a necessary (but problematic) ancillary?
<Discuss>
Marco.
Surely someone must have a view on this?
Marco.
Yes.... Mr Dickinson! :lolsign:
LOL. What are you inferring, gringo? :smoking:
Marco.
jandl100
15-04-2008, 08:08
OK - I'll have a bash at this ... :)
Get the mains sorted first, huh?
Well, that sounds like a good idea in principle - but what do you mean by "sorted"?
A set of Russ Andrews Yellow cheapo wanky mains wires? A bolus type mains filter? A mains regenerator? Totally re-wiring your dedicated listening room with 4 different types of ultra-expensive wanky-cable at a cost of tens of £k (a la Ken Kessler)? How much do you want to spend? - £X - OK. What if you spent £10X - would that be better? Would that be more "sorted"? And then if you spent 5x that much - (you can you know - there's no real limit in the world of hifi) - would that be better sorted?
This is all just a cheeky way of saying that nothing is ever "sorted" in this wonderful hobby of ours. There's always something more that can be done.
And anyway, is getting the mains supply sorted better than improving your speakers or amps? I don't think so - it was a maxim of Harry Pearson in the US mag TAS (The Absolute Sound) that everything matters - I certainly concur with that!
Hi Jerry,
I'm glad someone's tackled this important subject! What do I mean by "sorted"?
Well of course the term is somewhat ambiguous, but in general what I mean by "sorted", in terms of a mains set-up, is anything which doesn't involve a hi-fi system connected to the house ring main supply, and therefore having the system's 'mains feed' subjected to interference from other household appliances, and the 'noise' they generate on the supply. Also, in terms of mains leads, the use of something more suitable for hi-fi purposes other than cheap bog-standard 'kettle' leads. A decent mains block or the fitting of some good quality wall sockets (one for each component connected to a separate spur or spurs) wouldn't go amiss either.
After that, of course, the sky's the limit - you wouldn't believe the inordinate lengths I've gone to with my mains set-up :eyebrows: but every upgrade I've made has caused a significant improvement. One of the biggest differences I heard, for example, was installing a separate 10mm Earth for my system via 5 x 8ft star-wired copper Earth rods plunged into my garden and connected to the dedicated consumer unit I use for my hi-fi; the difference that made was amazing in terms of how it lowered the impedance on my mains supply (particularly when kept wet) and the way in which this impacted on the performance of my system.
Everything I do with the mains has the goal of lowering impedance, as low impedance in the circuit is fundamental to the performance of a hi-fi system. When I last measured my supply I got a reading of .32ohms (a typical reading is around 50-60 ohms) so this is phenomenally low, and much lower than that of the main house supply! Hard-wiring everything as far as possible, and doing away with plugs and sockets (any 'unnecessary' interface is bad and has the potential to raise impedance) has all proved beneficial, as has up-rating the main house fuse from 60 to 100A. I've done all sorts of things! It's one of the reasons my hi-fi system sounds so good and tends to, erm, 'surprise' people when they hear it ;) It also contributes to the system’s overall neutral balance, which is one of the reasons why I can hear subtle differences with things like cables and valves that may escape other less revealing set-ups.
Experimenting with the mains (much like you do with gear) has taught me many things and one of them is that until you have at least attended to your mains set-up (as mentioned in my first main paragraph above) the full potential of your equipment will not be realised - in effect, your boxes will only be giving a fraction of their true potential, which is why I wrote what I did earlier. The mains is the true 'source' and as such the 'quality' of your mains set-up has a substantial knock-on effect on the components throughout the rest of your system. This also means of course that the full effect of any component upgrades you make will never be fully realised unless your mains set-up is 'sorted' first.
Of course, it will never be fully 'sorted' - one has to make a compromise here as in any other area of a system. I have still to investigate the potential benefits of a high-end mains regenerator (I hate filters), but that will have to wait for now. Furthermore the results obtained will largely depend on the 'quality' of the incoming mains supply to your home (how much RFI, etc, is present) but there exists the potential (as I know from doing it) to improve things to quite a significant degree and provide a platform from which your equipment performs to a standard that it would not achieve under other circumstances.
Marco.
jandl100
15-04-2008, 11:14
Yup - I've tried and still use many a mains widget in my system.
I owned a PS Audio P300 mains regenarator for quite a while, and it gave substantial improvements in lowered background noise - deduced by the presence of improved imaging and sonic blackness around performers. I eventually sold it due to heat and fan noise issues and the fact that a new integrated amp couldn't be driven by it! I do rather fancy the new PS Audio Premiere regenerator which seems to have sorted all of these problems.
That earthing tweak you mention (earth spike in wet ground) was/is one of the many tweaks promoted by Russ Andrews - you want to watch that you aren't reported to the Advertising Standards Agency :).
Mind you, I'm a firm believer in fancy audiophile mains cords myself, but I'm not sure I've the courage (or foolhardiness) to start tampering directly with my mains supply! :mental:
I currently (;)) use a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet mains filter which, unlike most I have tried, does not sit on the musical dynamics. I did a direct comparison with the P300 and reckoned it gave about 1/2 to 2/3rds the improvement of the regenerator. Also Krystal Kables Titan mains leads and EarthWorks mains blocks.
That earthing tweak you mention (earth spike in wet ground) was/is one of the many tweaks promoted by Russ Andrews - you want to watch that you aren't reported to the Advertising Standards Agency :).
LOL. Reading Russ Andrew's booklet 'The Power and The Glory' was what started me off on the road to 'mains madness'! :eyebrows: And also the advice of electrical engineer and hi-fi enthusiast Roy.K.Riches. I implemented some of what they both recommended and then fine-tuned things further to my own spec.
Mind you, I'm a firm believer in fancy audiophile mains cords myself, but I'm not sure I've the courage (or foolhardiness) to start tampering directly with my mains supply! :mental:
I rarely "tamper" with the mains. All the serious work I've had carried out has been done by a qualified electrician. Things like up-rating the main house fuse you can do yourself. It's just a matter of unplugging the existing one from the incoming supply (cut the power first or there will be sparks!) and replacing it with one of a higher amperage rating. They're available from any wholesale electrical supplier. This procedure is also 100% legal.
It's done all the time when high current appliances are fitted in the home, such as electric showers, etc, when there are already a number of other such appliances connected to the supply and an electrician considers that a bigger main fuse is needed to cope with the current demand. These days, 100A fuses are fitted to most modern homes; it's only really older houses that might have a 60 or an 80A one fitted. I live in a 19th century lodge so I had a 60A one in mine!
You should have a look at what you've got. If your main fuse is less than a 100A, you've got a significant upgrade to get by spending five minutes of your time and less than a tenner at your local City Electrical Factors. Trust me ;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
15-04-2008, 18:22
I fully expected the indomitable Roy to have put his twopennorth in by now, so he must be out fishing.
Obviously I fully agree with Marco in principle and practice. I cannot understand why JANDl thinks you've got to have expensive, fancy cables installed, though.
Why is it so difficult, unless you don't own your own home, to put in a few spurs of common or garden 6mm or 10mm cable to a dedicated consumer unit with mini cicuit breakers cum fuses (MCBOs), cheap junction boxes and throw away the 'orrible plugs. Total cost a couple of hundred plus electrician for, say, 3/4 spurs.
In theory it's logical. In practice it's effective. You DON't get any interference from ring-mains borne appliances (well, I don't, anyway!) and you end up getting the essential raw material for your hifi unblemished by impedance changes and other detritus.
Conditioners? Filters? Expensive mains cables plugged into dirty ring mains? Forget it! Total waste of money, i. m. o.
The crap analogy of running your high performance car on standard unleaded is at least apposite.
I wonder how the cat's going to get on with the pigeons? Has to be said, though.
jandl100
15-04-2008, 21:45
I cannot understand why JANDl thinks you've got to have expensive, fancy cables installed, though. .
Well, no, I didn't actually say that. I listed a few possibilities along those lines - that was just one approach that many folks take.
Why is it so difficult, unless you don't own your own home, to put in a few spurs of common or garden 6mm or 10mm cable to a dedicated consumer unit with mini cicuit breakers cum fuses (MCBOs), cheap junction boxes and throw away the 'orrible plugs. Total cost a couple of hundred plus electrician for, say, 3/4 spurs.
Hmmm ... sorry, but that does sound a bit scary to me. Some folks just aren't cumfy with that sort of thing. But sometime soon I'm going to have to get my house rewired, I think, so I may well take the opportunity then to do as you suggest. In the meantime, my PS Audio Ultimate Outlet (what a name! :mental:) and a passle of audiophile mains cords and blocks does a pretty good job of improving the sound quality of my system.
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 11:30
Hmmm ... sorry, but that does sound a bit scary to me. Some folks just aren't cumfy with that sort of thing.
Jerry, what on Earth is scary about it? You have AT LEAST as much protection as you have on your ring main(s) as far as I can see. (normal circuit-breaker plus residual current device for earth aberrations)
You don't HAVE to dispense with the 13 amp. plugs, but this adds yet another 'bottleneck' which is surely superfluous when you consider the case fuses are well below that limit. I remember the old round-pin plugs (much favoured in the seventies/eighties as an upgrade) which didn't have fuses at all!
Jettison the case fuses. Now that's getting a bit scary, but there are people out there who think it's a risk worth taking. I suppose generating your own power or tapping in to your local hydro-electric plant (if you're a mountain man flat-Earther) might be beneficial, but simply having your own hifi circuit just doesn't stack up as a dangerous sport, I.M.O.
Ali Tait
16-04-2008, 17:20
Interesting thread.I can see the value of lowering the supply impedance Marco,but the fact is that the electrickery arrives at your door after travelling down miles and miles of over and underground cables,through junction boxes,substations,transformers etc,picking up all sorts of RF and other crap and hash on the way.(maybe I should mention at this point that I'm a project manager for an electrical company that is involved with the high-voltage electricity supply industry) but I find it hard to credit that a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much,if any,difference.I can see how mains regenerators etc could improve matters somewhat,and also how lowering supply impedance could help,but installing a dedicated ring or spur for your system to avoid interference from household appliances seems a drop in the ocean to me.Having said all that,I've not heard an A/B comparison of a system with and without a dedicated supply,so would be happy to be proved wrong! It just seems to me to be like trying to stop the tide coming in with a bucket.
I really wouldn't recommend having no protective devices looking after your kit.Fire and hi-fi don't really mix...
Regards,Ali
Hi Ali,
I know exactly where you're coming from. "Why a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much, if any, difference" has been the subject of much forum debates over the years! :eyebrows:
But make a difference it does - and a significant one at that. Some reasonable objective theories on why this happens have been mentioned. When the 'other thread' calms down I'll see if I can remember any of them!
But if what I'm doing has a measurable effect of lowering the impedance then I must be doing something right...
Separate spurs also noticeably improve the sound. Now and again I compare this effect by plugging my system into a wall socket (via a mains block) that's connected to the house ring main and then into my dedicated mains set-up using the same test music. The difference isn't subtle ;)
Marco.
P.S Look forward to meeting you on Saturday :)
Earth rods plunged into my garden and connected to the dedicated consumer unit I use for my hi-fi; the difference that made was amazing in terms of how it lowered the impedance on my mains supply (particularly when kept wet) and the way in which this impacted on the performance of my system.
Marco,
If you need to keep them wet by 'watering them', then I'm afraid you've not installed then correctly mate!
I'm guessing they've been 'hammered' into the soil vertically? If so, that's not the way to do it!
Best way (and no-one ever does this) is to dig a deep trench long enough for the rod to be buried horizontally. It needs to be deep enough for the soil to be permanently wet, or at least damp, and covered in a generous layer (all around the rod) of carbon. Crushed BBQ charcoal is excellent.
Then refill the trench while seriously compacting the soil as you go. Viola! One very consistent earth!
Unfortunately it will still corrode away in time and need to be replaced.
It's a ball ache, but worth it.
Ashley James
16-04-2008, 19:02
Interesting thread.I can see the value of lowering the supply impedance Marco,but the fact is that the electrickery arrives at your door after travelling down miles and miles of over and underground cables,through junction boxes,substations,transformers etc,picking up all sorts of RF and other crap and hash on the way.(maybe I should mention at this point that I'm a project manager for an electrical company that is involved with the high-voltage electricity supply industry) but I find it hard to credit that a 1 metre piece of expensive cable on the end of all this can make much,if any,difference.I can see how mains regenerators etc could improve matters somewhat,and also how lowering supply impedance could help,but installing a dedicated ring or spur for your system to avoid interference from household appliances seems a drop in the ocean to me.Having said all that,I've not heard an A/B comparison of a system with and without a dedicated supply,so would be happy to be proved wrong! It just seems to me to be like trying to stop the tide coming in with a bucket.
I really wouldn't recommend having no protective devices looking after your kit.Fire and hi-fi don't really mix...
Regards,Ali
Please give this man a common sense medal!
It was Linn that persuaded everyone the source was the most important part of a system, when coincidentally, he was flogging a turntable. Before then everyone knew that Loudspeakers were the weakest link in the chain and they still are! Especially as we now have nice consistent digits to process.
LOL. What are you doing on this part of the forum? This is a subjectivist haven.
Heretics aren't allowed here! :lolsign:
Marco.
Mike,
I take you're point, but if I'm getting a reading of .32 ohms impedance on my supply then I can't be going too far wrong!
It goes up quite considerably if I disconnect the decdicated Earth ;)
Marco.
Marco,
S'ok mate, no-one installs them properly TBH. It's just another one of my little 'hobby horses', knocking em in vertically is just 'bad practise', the stories of them going through cables, drains, water pipes etc. are myriad. The worst of all has to be a sewer main, know one knows its happened for ages, maybe years, until one day your garden is awash with shi.... oh, you get the picture! :bog:
How are you measuring your earth impedance BTW?
Cheers,
Mike.
Mike,
My local friendly electrician (who's a personal friend) has carried out the test on a few occasions throughout my 'journey' with the mains. He installed my current set-up. He's also very interested in hi-fi, which helps! Every time he affects an upgrade we measure the results - it's all very enlightening :)
I presume he uses a multi-meter of some description, or whatever else one would use to measure the impedance.
Marco.
I presume he uses a multi-meter of some description, or whatever else one would use to measure the impedance.
That would be an 'earth loop impedance tester' normally. It's just that I've got one that you (or anyone else for that matter) can borrow if needed.
Cheers,
Mike.
I'll bear that in mind, Mike :)
Cheers.
Marco.
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 20:34
Marco,
S'ok mate, no-one installs them properly TBH. It's just another one of my little 'hobby horses', knocking em in vertically is just 'bad practise', the stories of them going through cables, drains, water pipes etc. are myriad. The worst of all has to be a sewer main, know one knows its happened for ages, maybe years, until one day your garden is awash with shi.... oh, you get the picture! :bog:
Cheers,
Mike.
Interesting, other Mike. I've never heard of horizontal burying of earthing rods. I'd have thought that as the bottom half of a vertical rod would be deeper that a horizontally placed one, it's MORE likely to be kept damp. Or is the secret in the carbon? Please elucidate if so.
Another point (facetious) Piercing a sewer really DOES endure damp conditions for earthing impedance, surely!
Does a metre plus long copper rod EVER corrode away?
Ali Tait
16-04-2008, 20:44
Hi Marco/Mike/All
Interesting you should say that Mike.I've banged a good few earth rods in over the years(always vertically though!) in order to earth substations.The efficacy really depends on the soil compostion.On some larger/higher voltage subs,we have in the past had to have holes drilled with drilling rigs,in order to fill the holes with some gubbins whose name escapes me at the moment,so as to achieve the required impedance when the rods are driven in.I've never heard of laying them horizontally Mike,but what you say makes good sense.We use a Megger with set lengths of cable and rods driven to set depths to test soil conductivity to see what is required.
Marco,I would be interested in hearing the differences for myself.Speaker and interconnect cables certainly do make a difference,in my experience anyway,so who's to say different mains feed configurations dont either,but my logical side(given my occupation) says this would make no practical difference(impedance aside).I would be quite happy to be proved wrong though! I'd venture to suggest there may be a few things going on that are not fully understood yet.BTW,will you be bringing your amp or any other gear to Owston? I'll be bringing my Mr Liang 845,and also an original WAD 300b PP.Look forward to meeting you too.
Regards,Ali.
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 20:45
I don't suppose RKR had any hand in your dedicated mains installation?
Interesting posting from Ali, and I'm sure he's right about the crap mains supply (well, in some places, anyway).
Surely, though, it's better to maintain that standard, however bad, than to have it degenerate further by going round the house through myriad connections (and, I suppose, appliances) before arriving at your hifi?
Ali Tait
16-04-2008, 21:07
Trust me,if you saw your inside your local sub,and the subs further up the chain,electricity supply is pretty much crap everwhere!(from a mains pollution point of view) The point I was making is that it is so polluted already when it arrives in your home,anything you do to it there would seem to me make a vanishingly small improvement.
Another point (facetious) Piercing a sewer really DOES endure damp conditions for earthing impedance, surely!
Does a metre plus long copper rod EVER corrode away?
It certainly does corrode when soaked in piss! :lolsign:
Seriously though..... Horizontal burying IS the way to go. You are right in saying 'never heard of', it almost never happens.
Yes a metre long rod does corrode. The commercially available rods are rarely copper, usually copper plated steel, I'll grant you it's usually several years until there's any problem. The carbon thing is just a way of increasing the conductive surface area of the buried material it also, allegedly, delays the corrosion process, but I have no proof of this, it could be just a rumour.
My own preference is for an 'earth anchor'! ;)....... Go on, you know you want to ask!
:lolsign:
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 21:22
My own preference is for an 'earth anchor'! ;)....... Go on, you know you want to ask!
:lolsign:
ANCHOR WHAT? Isn't that in Cambodia?.
jERRY, Are you being a bit naughtycal?
Whatever it is, I bet it slips into the ground like butter!
Is this the ANCHOR-AGE? No, that's in Alaska
"Time for bed," said Rosemary (????or Dougal. or????)
Ali Tait
16-04-2008, 21:23
Yes,copper plated steel.Pure copper wouldnt stand the driving in process.Ok I'll bite! not heard of an earth anchor.
:lolsign:
http://www.russandrews.com/article-Replacing-your-Hi-Fi-earth-spike-earthspike_replace.htm
HeHe....
S'easy (and probably unnecessary).
I had a 50M reel of 16m (square) earth wire and one 4ft earth rod...... Hmmmm, seems a waste to not use this copper, "why not strip the insulation from all but the last 5M (all I needed to get into the house) and wrap all the rest around the earth rod" I thought.
So I did!
And then buried the whole caboodle in the garden. Took a while though! :)
BTW, try and get it as close to the building as possible. That can be a real pain!!!..... All sorts of building shit in the ground, rocks, scaffold pipes (!) etc.etc.
Cheers,
Mike.
P.S. I'm talking entirely about domestic locations here, commercial & industrial sites could be a whole different ball game.
:lolsign:
http://www.russandrews.com/article-Replacing-your-Hi-Fi-earth-spike-earthspike_replace.htm
Damn it!!!!
When did the baldy old git rob me of that idea???
I demand remuneration I tell thee! :steam:
I found all this out when I worked for BT, in about 1982.... Bah!
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 21:47
Couldn't sleep!
Hey, Mike; That Russ Andrews suggestion (NRG's link; 'well spotted') looks surprisingly like yours in principle, and I must say, might be worth trying if it lowers impedance. Think I'd still be tempted to ram it in vertically, though, as I've got softish soil and no obstructions in front of my house.
'Er indoors wouldn't be too chuffed if I excavated her flower beds, either!
Mike Reed
16-04-2008, 21:52
I found all this out when I worked for BT, in about 1982.... Bah!
Surely nobody worked for B T in those days; you mean you were on the payroll!
Really MUST go to bed!
Surely nobody worked for B T in those days; you mean you were on the payroll!
Really MUST go to bed!
Yes I was!.... I was an apprentice in those days. It all came about from, errr, 'highly intelligent' installers buggering up customers 'domestic services'! ;)
I noticed a 'side effect', and here I am now! :)
Yes I was!.... I was an apprentice in those days.
As Mike said....you where on the payroll! :lolsign:
Huh?
Thats what "Yes I was..." means innit? :scratch:
I don't suppose RKR had any hand in your dedicated mains installation?
No, Mike, Roy's a bit too far away from me, although he has come up and visited once, but that was well after I had my dedicated mains set-up installed.
I've certainly taken a lot of his ideas on board, such as the Memera CU fitted with the up-rated buss-bar, and upgrading to a 100A main house fuse, but I've gone for 64A MCBs in my CU (yes I know! :eyebrows:) instead of 32A RCBOs, which my mains leads are hard-wired into, and a single spur, not multiples, with 16mm armoured cable. However I've kept the original case fuses in my equipment instead of Roy's silver 'blanks' - I guess that I need some element of safety in there! ;)
I also don't use Roy's 'beasts', and instead, as you will see from my system list below, use Transparent Reference Powerlink mains cables, which in my system give a significant improvement over the twin & earth-type mains leads Roy prefers.
It's all about fine-tuning things to suit your own system and the type of presentation you're aiming for. 'Normal' people just laugh when they see my mains set-up - so did the electrician when I originally carried this out about five years ago! But he's into hi-fi and has been astonished at the level of improvement each upgrade has made. He was sceptical too, originally, but as he's experienced first hand the effect of each modification it's been at bit of an education for him. He's now installed similar set-ups for a few of my friends.
I still remember the look on his face when I polished the end caps of the 100A house fuse and its copper housing to a near jewel-like finish with Brasso, etc, he thought I was a right nutter :mental: and quite right, too! :lol:
These days, he's as 'into it' as I am and enjoys coming round for a listening sesh (he only lives up the road) and marvels at how good the system sounds and the significant part his work has played in it all...
Marco.
Mike Reed
18-04-2008, 09:08
Well, Marco! What can I say?
I must deduce from your use of armoured cable that your listening room is in your garden! Or IS your garden! Fantastic. Finest sound I've ever heard was when I extended my leads and took my (then) ProAc Response 3s onto the lawn on a sunny summer's day. No reflections, just the birds (feathered variety).
Can't fathom why you have doubled up on the MCBs (though sonically preferable, no doubt), but have eschewed the RCDs. Surely anything going awry with the kit is very likely to trip the earth switch, cutting the juice, and (to my mind) is an important safety measure.
You don't mention your cable size, but if you've got just one spur I guess it has to be similar to meter tails (16mm?). I don't know which sizes armoured cable comes in.
I have R.A. ref. cables in longer lengths throughout, and they work well. So do Roy's 'Beasts' (aptly named if you want flexibility!). Which is better? No idea; don't care. I'm at the 'fit 'n' forget' age! Powering down is a pain, let alone A-B testing.
Hi Ali,
I'm sorry but I missed this before.
Marco,I would be interested in hearing the differences for myself.Speaker and interconnect cables certainly do make a difference,in my experience anyway,so who's to say different mains feed configurations dont either,
Of course I agree, but after that horrifying subjective statement I wonder if Ashley would still give you the "common sense" award? ;)
You're more than welcome to come round sometime and hear the results for yourself.
Incidentally, regarding 'Source First', it's still definitely your mains supply, but in terms of equipment, it's still my view that the source component is the most important, however with a digital front-end it's not as crucial as it once was with T/Ts, but there are a couple of exceptions, particularly with some digital sources. 'Source component first' only makes a difference if:
1) You use a turntable as your main source. Because a turntable is a mechanical beast and the analogue format less 'precise' in nature compared to digital (note to 'digiphiles': that doesn't mean to say it's worse) and also because there are many interfaces to get right, optimising any one of them normally has a huge impact on the sound, such as simply upgrading the cartridge. Therefore in a turntable-only set-up the ultimate performance of the system will always be determined by the quality of the turntable and its associated ancillaries - the loss of any information here cannot be remedied further down the chain, no matter how good are the quality of the subsequent amplifier or speakers.
2) Your CD player source is designed with high quality (often bespoke) components and doesn't share the same universal parts bin as every 'off-the-shelf' CD player on the market. Otherwise, CDPs these days sound virtually the same, so you will get better sound-per-pound by allocating more funds to the purchase of better amps or speakers. If you use a computer as a main source there is no real advantage to 'Source First'. I don't believe there is much, if any, variance in sonic performance between most computer sources - certainly none that outweigh the advantages of spending more money on better amps or speakers. Of course, if you go the active route with a computer audio set-up then it makes sense to spend most money on the speakers.
I just wanted to comment on that. It wasn't particularly aimed at you! :)
but my logical side(given my occupation) says this would make no practical difference(impedance aside).
I think that's where the biggest improvement is coming from. Like I said, my primary goal with the mains is to lower impedance. However, reducing 'noise' on the mains supply for a hi-fi system is another important factor when attending to set-up, and there is no doubt that separating a hi-fi system from the house ring-main supply, which many 'noisy' household appliances are connected to, and putting it on a separate spur (with dedicated CU), improves performance quite considerably. You can actually measure this with an Audioprism 'Noise Sniffer'. The results in many cases are enlightening!
I've heard the performance of many hi-fi systems deteriorate simply by plugging in Christmas tree lights to the same electrical circuit as the hi-fi system. Fluorescent lights are another high source of 'noise', as are most large electrical appliances such as fridge freezers, etc. However one of the worst things is computers! If you have your PC connected to the same electrical circuit as your hi-fi system, try turning it on and off as music is playing (providing of course your source is not the same computer!) and you should hear degradation in the sound when the computer is on. The fans in these things chuck lots of 'noise' on to the mains. It won't be a 'night and day' difference, but it all adds up, and if you've got them all going on at once the cumulative effect on performance is quite significant!
I would be quite happy to be proved wrong though! I'd venture to suggest there may be a few things going on that are not fully understood yet.
Indeed - and I totally agree! Try telling that to the dyed-in-the-wool scientific types, though, who believe that everything that can be understood is already understood, and this stuff is simply being imagined by 'gullible' subjective-minded hi-fi enthusiasts!! :baa:
BTW,will you be bringing your amp or any other gear to Owston? I'll be bringing my Mr Liang 845,and also an original WAD 300b PP.
Yep, I'll be bringing the modified Yaqin, my Croft preamp, and my Sony DAS-R1 DAC, and also some high quality Transparent cables to test against the D.I.Y jobs some of you guys no doubt use ;)
It should be fun. I'm looking forward to it!
Marco.
Yep, I'll be bringing the modified Yaqin, my Croft preamp, and my Sony DAS-R1 DAC, and also some high quality Transparent cables to test against the D.I.Y jobs some of you guys no doubt use ;)
Hi marco
there will be a few diy cables.. i use a set of £30 interconnects and mains twin and earth for the speakers....
that should make some of you laugh..
the basics of musical reproduction is about simplicity and quality components in the right combination in the signal path..
there is no doubt in my mind that speakers and amps are by far the weakest links in the chain.. speakers being the weakest of course.. they always have been..
the effect that low efficiency drivers have on the quality of the music can be quite something..
trouble is you cannot go to your local hi fi shop and audition many(any) quality hi eff. speakers..
on an equal sized and constructed driver the efficiency is roughly equates to the speed and the amount of detail produced.. frequency dependant of course
now where's my tin helmet...
s
Hi SPS,
Welcome to the forum :)
Are you Steve S from Audio-talk, by any chance?
I agree with you that speakers are the weakest link in terms of the effect of the crossovers, especially poorly designed ones.
However, there's not much point in having an excellent pair of speakers and a crap source, particularly if you use a turntable, as all you'll hear are its deficiencies.
If you use a CD player, like I said, much will depend on its design relative to the quality of the components used, and if your source is a computer, then it definitely makes sense to spend most of your money on the amps and speakers.
The high-efficiency, single-driver, along with S.E.T amps, is an interesting approach and one that I look forward to hearing some good examples of tomorrow :smoking:
We'll see what the cables do. That's why I thought I'd bring some 'special' ones along.
Marco.
Ashley James
18-04-2008, 18:53
Hi SPS,
Welcome to the forum :)
I agree with you that speakers are the weakest link in terms of the effect of the crossovers, especially poorly designed ones.
However, there's not much point in having an excellent pair of speakers and a crap source, particularly if you use a turntable, as all you'll hear are its deficiencies.
Marco.
Marco - you're absolutely right! Even the best passive crossovers are intrusive.
And now the source is Digital it doesn't matter whether it's a PS3 or an expensive CD transport, it'll sound as good as the DAC it's connected to.
I'm going to show you how to prove this when you visit.
Ash
anthonyTD
18-04-2008, 19:52
Marco - you're absolutely right! Even the best passive crossovers are intrusive.
And now the source is Digital it doesn't matter whether it's a PS3 or an expensive CD transport, it'll sound as good as the DAC it's connected to.
I'm going to show you how to prove this when you visit.
Ash
marco,
something i also agree on, the pasive crossover is the ruin of a lot of potentialy good speakers, but unless you have the ability to go active, and can find an active filter that works properly, then they are a neccesary evil for most of us! that is why a lot of people are showing interest in full-range,single drive unit technology again, also, open baffle speaker designs are making a come back with many folk...;)
Ali Tait
18-04-2008, 20:58
Haha now now Marco! A subjective statement it may be,but I don't think anyone here who has tried it for themselves will disagree that cables do sound different,probably mostly due to the different resistance/capacitive loads each type presents to the amplifier in conjunction with the in/output impedances of each part of the system.Don't get me wrong,I may have given the impression in my previous posts that I hold great store by measured performance,but nothing could be further from the truth,hence my love of valve amps and DIY electrostatic speakers.If it sounds good,I like it! I'm just interested in understanding why these differences exist.
SPS/Marco,you have no need of a tin hat with me!.Before I bought the statics from a mate on another forum,I was using a pair of B&W P5's,cabled with TNT Twisted Twins(a diy cable from the TNT audio website for those that aren't familiar) These cost me about 35 quid(with good quality plugs) to make,and easily bettered my 350 quid's worth of Audioquest crap(having heard them against the TNT) I was using before.I also have a couple of pairs of i/c's I made up from the same site.A few people on another forum use these speaker cables and seem to like them.They were no good with the statics though,being a low R,high C design which I was warned by my mate the statics wouldn't like.He was absolutely right! They sounded awful,very harsh and bright.As I'd bought a Gotham Swiss digi I/C from t'ebay for a tenner (with Neutrik plugs-I don't think you could buy these for a tenner on their own could you?) and liked it,I bought a pair of speaker cables from them for I think 35 quid,as my mate had said the speakers liked a cable of a decent size to give good current delivery to them.They sound great now,good soundstaging and bags of that hear through quality you only get with statics.
Marco you are right about noise pollution in the home.the biggist culprit I think is the switch-mode power supplies used in a lot of household items(pc's etc) these as I understand it inject a large amount of noise back into the supply in a house.It could be for this reason that you hear such an improvement in having a dedicated supply for your system.
Regarding tomorrow,I look forward to seeing your face when you hear what some of the guys demonstrating gear are capable of building.I've been to a few of these in the past,and the bar gets higher every time(and no I'm not talking about getting the beer in!) Speaking for myself,some of us from the other forum have attended the Manchester show,and the quality of sound that is available from the major manufacturers I thought was frankly pants compared to what could be built for a couple of hundred quid.I've heard a top spec. Chord system(a 6 figure sum to buy) It was bloody awful! The Naim room was not much better.I was frankly amazed at the amount of hugely-priced gear that just sounded pants to me.The only really good sound I heard there was a room using some Viva amps-very expensive hand made valve amps from Itay.Interesting design using 845 ouputs and a couple of 211's as rectifiers.(all this just IMHO of course,no wish to start a war!)
Look forward to meeting you tomorrow.
Regards,Ali.
my view is probably very different to most peoples on what can do what.
10 years ago i was into solid state amps and ns1000's
i never found anything that i thought sounded like live music..
my 2 watt valves do the tightest deep bass you can imagine
with the right speakers of course..
passive crossovers do spoil the sound.. as does everything in the signal path to some degree..
but i was talking about speakers that get close to reproducing the electrical input, or don't...
i'm sure understand how drivers work.. an electric motor unit that oscillates
with the signal as it goes from positive to negative
and at how many cycles a second the reproduced particular notes are..
a driver has quite a tough job to keep up.. powerful motors and light cones means that the cone movement keeps up more with the signal.. giving more volume and more accurately reproducing that signal....
low efficiency drivers seem to work better in the bass as the speed of the oscillation is much less, the wave length of a 40 hz signal is much greater than say a 900hz signal.. and the speed that the cone moves is proportionate.. 40 oscillations a second or 900 oscillations, now factor in the air thats being moved by the cone..
that slows everthing down
that slowing... is why no speaker is 100% efficient.. as a rough guide..the more they slow the less effiecent they are
high efficient driver is a voltage source, the motor has enough magnet strength to control the driver and little current is required to get the best from it
a low efficiency driver is a current source and needs more current to make up for the lack of self contol in the motor...
powerfull amps in this set up can sound impressive but they will not reproduce the finer details and life like sounds that are possible...
and they just about all have use a feed back circuit which further degrades the sound...
so... feed back issues.. as these are driver related?
here goes..
most amps have a circuit that links into the speaker output connections
that in turn puts a % of the output signal back into the amp..
and is added to the input signal,
this reduces distortion and helps the damping factor
and it does that.. when measured,
but amps are measured with fixed loads ...not with speakers attached.
the speaker is also putting another signal into the circuit
as i have said above, the speaker is not keeping up with the signal
the driver, as it moves is also creating an ac signal that is its version of the original signal ..this is called back emf
to put it another way, the driver, as it overshoots and slows.. works as a dynamo creating another signal, which then goes back into the amp via the feed back circuit
it is amplified along with the correct signal, degrading the amps output..
so drivers and feedback, together change the sound..
putting an a/c meter on one of my drivers and moving it fast by hand i managed to get .25 volts.. in voltage terms the back emf could be nearly as much as the input signal when in use..
so does that make an amp with feed back only as good as the speakers connected to it..?
i still put speakers 1st, amps a very close second and source last.. sorry...
hope that makes sense ....
Steve
steve
Ali Tait
18-04-2008, 21:25
Yes Steve what you say is true,for conventional speakers.Statics avoid these problems.Not to say they don't have their own limitations because they do.All I would personally say from a subjective point of view is that I couldn't go back to a box speaker now.
Regards,Ali.
Yes Steve what you say is true,for conventional speakers.Statics avoid these problems.Not to say they don't have their own limitations because they do.All I would personally say from a subjective point of view is that I couldn't go back to a box speaker now.
Regards,Ali.
dead right about statics
i had one of my amps on ed's this week.. they sounded very nice..
its just all those watts they really need..just to get a reasonable volume..
are you bringing your speakers?
i could not go back to boxes too Ali..
see you in the morning..
Hi Mike,
I meant to answer this sooner but got caught up with one or two things.
I must deduce from your use of armoured cable that your listening room is in your garden! Or IS your garden! Fantastic.
I use armoured cable because the cable (yes, 16mm meter tails :)) runs along the outside of the house from the incoming mains supply and up into my listening room through the outside wall. I done this for two reasons: 1) so that the cable is easily accessible should I want to replace it, or whatever, and 2) to ensure that it's kept separate, and 'kink-free', from the jumble of other cables if I ran it underneath the floorboards.
Finest sound I've ever heard was when I extended my leads and took my (then) ProAc Response 3s onto the lawn on a sunny summer's day. No reflections, just the birds (feathered variety).
Nice one. I've thought about doing something like that but never actually carried it out - mainly because the SP100s weigh about 40kg each!
Can't fathom why you have doubled up on the MCBs (though sonically preferable, no doubt), but have eschewed the RCDs. Surely anything going awry with the kit is very likely to trip the earth switch, cutting the juice, and (to my mind) is an important safety measure.
The difference is I've kept the original case fuses in, Mike, and I'm not using 'blanks' like Roy prefers. His method has the protection in place elsewhere in the chain via RCBOs, which I feel 'sit' on the sound somewhat. I've tested both ways and to my ears the higher-rated MCBs with standard case fuses approach sounds more musical.
I also run a single spur instead of multiples for a similar reason. I think I'm about the only person who's adopted Roy's methods not to have gone down the multiple spur route, but I have my reasons. If you're interested I'll gladly go into more detail.
I have R.A. ref. cables in longer lengths throughout, and they work well. So do Roy's 'Beasts' (aptly named if you want flexibility!). Which is better? No idea; don't care. I'm at the 'fit 'n' forget' age! Powering down is a pain, let alone A-B testing.
Fit and forget is the best policy. If you've happy with the sound leave well alone! :)
Marco.
Mike Reed
21-04-2008, 21:57
MARCO,
I and others have just been informed (on P.F.) that what we, and everybody I've known, calls a 'spur', is, in fact, a 'radial circuit'!
Seems a spur is a wiring connection that's taken off the back of a socket on a ring main.
Live and learn. To my mind this makes a mockery of the dictionary definition of a 'circuit', but I s'pose printed circuits don't necessarily conduct in a circular fashion, either.
Interesting about your preferred wiring options. I've no axe to grind, except inasmuch as I firmly believe in as good a direct mains system to one's audio as poss. Even then, I don't know if this holds good for valved amplification, for example. In theory it should, but hifi is such a black art....
I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the seemingly incessant brickbats or worse masquerading as 'discussions' of late. Banter, sarcasm, innuendo and even snide remarks are part and parcel of a forum, but does a literary re-enactment of a Sicilian vendetta REALLY draw the crowds?
Hi Mike,
Are you referring to Richard's comments?
I'll get back to you regarding the rest tomorrow :)
Marco.
Mike Reed
22-04-2008, 18:14
MARCO,
Only partly. More the umpteenth RASHLEY/BRUM intilfada. Tedious in the extreme, but there again, I'm not into pugilistic sports.
jimdgoulding
24-04-2008, 03:25
I just read "JC and Ashley's Musing" for the first time and given this reference, I decided that the entry I made here day before yesterday was inappropriate, so I removed it. I don't subscribe to absolutes for more people than me and only by me at that (WTF was I thinking?). Thank you. Back to topic.
Well done, Jim. Strangely, I was thinking the same thing myself ;)
And incidentally it's got nothing to do with the excellence of your products.
Mike, I had a chuckle at that. I'll get back to your earlier post later.
Marco.
Filterlab
24-04-2008, 11:33
Although Jim, you have every right to highly praise the results of your surrounds, they are an excellent tweak for pennies, certainly far more immediately beneficial than many other tweaks. However I can understand your reason for removing the post as it had a mildly 'angry' feel to it. :lol:
Still, you know just how much I praise your work and how much praise others give you - therefore quite right you should shout about it! ;)
jimdgoulding
24-04-2008, 23:47
Thanks, fellas, for your indulgence. It wasn't "praising" that I was doing, however, at least I don't think it was, I was trying to do, a bit too defiantly, was drive home a point. The other night while reading on the crapper (we all do that don't we?), I re-read a review of the Gallo Nucleas Ref 3 in a 2004 issue of The Absolute Sound. Damn, it sounded like they were describing the effect on your speaker(s) with my little mod hanging on them! The reviewer defines palpability as a term that refers to a speaker's ability to present the sizes, shapes, and bodies of instruments and vocalists in three dimensions so that they seemed real enough to touch. Sound familiar? Now, I'm praising!
If I can interject at this late stage, I have had excellent results with the Premier since I acquired one of the first 240V units imported into the UK (after pestering Paul McGann of PS Audio for the previous year). Rather than re-write what I think, here is a short review I published as moderator of cix/hi-fi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As some of you will know I've been running a P300 mains regenerator for
some years now, providing clean mains power to my SACD player/turntable
and preamp. The benefits have always been clear and, despite the
prodigious heat output and low power, I wouldn't have lived without it.
Now at last I have been given the chance to listen to a Powerplant Premier
from the first batch in the country. This is the UK model supplying 240V
and with 5 rear-mounted UK 13A sockets. The differences between this new
model and the P300 are as follows: 1500W power capacity as opposed to
300W; very cool running compared with cook-omelettes-on-it heat; fixed
output voltage of 240V; single Multiwave mode (the squared-off sinewave
mode which pushes more charge into PSU reservoirs from a flattened
waveform); remote control; short Cleanwave only which lasts 5 seconds
(facility which degausses system components); five proper rear sockets
rather than four, two of which are obscured, on the P300; isolation
between each socket (Isozones).
The big improvement in design for me is the chance to plug in my power amp
for the first time. This is how I tested it earlier this week, with each
of SACD player, turntable, preamp and power amp connected into a rear
socket. Operating Cleanwave has a remarkable effect on my Harvesters
(noise reduction plug-in modules), which flash madly as they try to 'eat'
the degaussing noise. After 5 seconds, everything goes eerily silent and
the Harvesters return to their occasional flash indicating low noise on
the house circuit. Output shows a rock-steady 241V at 0.9% THD, input
measures 235V at 4.5% THD, all viewable on the front panel using the
remote control.
Sound quality-wise, the Premier is a big surprise. I expected, if
anything, to hear slightly more of the same, i.e. blacker spaces between
notes, lower noise floor, overall purity of sound. What I'm actually
hearing, though, is more surprising. The effect is one of incredible
separation of the strands of music so that I can hear into the soundstage
more than ever before, combined with a lack of harshness that has rendered
even difficult CDs more listenable, and greater dynamic impact than
before. Even crassly recorded discs sound listenable with lower fatigue
while excellent recordings are presented with far more insight. I find
I'm playing music at one or two notches higher volume than before and the
impact is amazing while everything remains so clean. Dynamics are
visceral and the system sounds very comfortably within its capabilities.
The muscle in Jeff Beck's music really grabs you by the throat, Massive
Attack is visceral and less harsh, Shostakovich is awesome even in his
most dense orchestral works and Sarah McLachlan's voice is shockingly
in-your-face when she starts singing.
Tonight I tried connecting the subwoofer into the Powerplant and got
another surprise. The bass is tighter and really room-shaking with less
boom than ever before. Combined with my TubeTraps I can honestly say I
have never achieved such extended and clean bass in any previous
configuration. My favourite Widor, Bach and Saint-Saens recordings sound
incredible with the 32' and 64' pipes now creating virtually inaudible
vibrations with no frequency doubling effects.
I have been a believer in the positive effects of clean mains for a few
years now, but never have I had it demonstrated in such a clear-cut
fashion. The UK list price is £1,799 (little more than the P300) and this
one is not going back to the dealer.
http://www.psaudio.com/products/moreinfo.asp
hiredfox
15-07-2008, 14:33
Whilst listening to some tunes today through my newly-modified Yaqin power amp (and superb they sounded, too!) I was flicking through Issue 55 of Hi-Fi+, as one does - well not usually, but I was on this occasion, and I came across a rather interesting review by Steve Dickinson on the Nordost Tyr cable loom.
Actually, let me rephrase that - it's wasn't so much the main content of the review that was interesting, but rather the summary in his last paragraph. It ran thus:
I found myself nodding in absolutely agreement with Mr Dickinson, as it represents my own particular ethos, and it's something I've been writing on hi-fi forums for years. I refer to it as the 'foundation' from which the system performs and ultimately it is fundamental to a system's convincing portrayal of music. The mains supply is the true 'source' not your CD player, turntable, or any other type of source component.
I sorted my 'mains feed' out years ago - and my stands, and more recently my interconnects and speaker cable. Consequently, the effect of every component upgrade I make is revealed to maximum effect, and one reason why my friends frequently use my system to assess their potential hi-fi purchases. It is also the main reason why I rarely feel the need to upgrade equipment - simply because the environment my existing equipment operates in is optimised and therefore I'm getting the most out of each box and the system as a whole.
So what I'd like to know is how do others stand on this issue? Do you agree that the quality of the mains feed is fundamental to the performance of a hi-fi system, and indeed the subsequent interconnects and speaker cable used, as I have outlined above, or ultimately are the boxes the most important factor and cables simply a necessary (but problematic) ancillary?
<Discuss>
Marco.
All a bit naive if you ask me. If you are talking about power sources being at the beginning of the chain then let's get to the source. You are miles away in your statements of where to begin.... you need to know whether electricity is cleaner when generated from nucleur rather than coal or oil or gas...
Exactly, isn't this why our hobby is so often ridiculed? On the basis of your submission it deserves to be.
I am a firm believer that 1) mains quality and 2) room treatment are fundamental to the maximum potential of a hi-fi system. I say this through the experience of having tried various mains treatments over the years and finally being able to properly treat my new listening room.
By saying that the power source is fundamental, it's important to understand that your system is modulating power to create a signal to ultimately drive your speakers. That power is DC derived from mains. The less noise and distortion on the mains in the first place, the cleaner will be your precious DC that becomes the speaker feed. RFI and harmonic distortion easily get through the average equipment power supply to corrupt the DC power rails, so saying that mains quality is immaterial is ignoring a large factor in keeping system power clean.
As I said above, the empirical results are unequivocal. Beg, borrow or steal a PS Audio Power Plant Premier and I'm pretty confident you won't let them have it back.
Martin,
Mr "Firefox" it seems is a bit of a trouble-making troll, and very close to a ban, so I would ignore him :)
Marco.
Steve Toy
16-07-2008, 00:36
I'm not going to ignore mr Firefox but I am going to watch him closely.
That final metre or so of mains before it enters your boxes does seem to be the most critical. RFI and electro-mechanical interaction between components does seem to be the key to the success of your system's ability to play recorded music that will satisfy you both short and long term.
"Scientific" theories only serve to explain musical listening satisfaction after the fact. They rarely predict it in advance.
Why do people keep calling him (or her) "Firefox"? :scratch:
Filterlab
16-07-2008, 07:58
Why do people keep calling him (or her) "Firefox"? :scratch:
Not reading properly I guess Shain. :D
Steve's at 'that age' now where he gets confused ;)
I'm a little older but I was daft from birth so it's less obvious.
Marco.
Not reading properly I guess Shain. :D
Who's Shain? :lol:
Marco.
Filterlab
16-07-2008, 08:06
Precisely. :)
Filterlab
16-07-2008, 11:27
;)
jimdgoulding
17-07-2008, 00:21
And once you get all that sorted out- the electrical- get the acoustical right. Preserve the integrity of waveforms at their point of departure and around the room. They carry all the information that precedes them. LOL
Egg crates all round, eh?
jimdgoulding
17-07-2008, 13:53
Not in my room, and, I suspect, not in yours. See that speaker in my avatar? Around the tweeter is a device that I make. It's made from highest quality real wool. I make it to absorb waveforms from being reflected off this and any conventional box speaker baffle. Works real good. Trues up everything. Received an '08 Golden Ear Award from Robert E. Greene, technical editor, The Absolute Sound. The least expensive device to ever have received this.
Filterlab
17-07-2008, 16:04
Received an '08 Golden Ear Award from Robert E. Greene, technical editor, The Absolute Sound. The least expensive device to ever have received this.
Praise where necessary Jim. You know how I feel about my baffle covers, they are now relieved of their velcro and are full time fixtures on my speakers. :)
One of the biggest differences I heard, for example, was installing a separate 10mm Earth for my system via 5 x 8ft star-wired copper Earth rods plunged into my garden and connected to the dedicated consumer unit I use for my hi-fi; the difference that made was amazing in terms of how it lowered the impedance on my mains supply (particularly when kept wet) and the way in which this impacted on the performance of my system.
Anyone considering adding local ground rods for their audio system should do their research and be aware of the hazards involved. I recommend these references as a starting point.
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/electrical.html
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/earth.html
One hazard not discussed is lightning. A nearby lightning strike can create a potential difference of hundreds of volts between the earth on one side of your house and the other. If your local ground rod is not connected to the earth connection at the main service panel with a large gauge copper conductor, anybody that happens to be in contact with an audio component and anything that is connected to the main ground could receive a fatal shock.
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