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Labarum
29-08-2009, 19:22
I am presently listening to my Beresford 7510 6/4 on the lounge system. My Caiman is upstairs with my new Sony F1 Headphones. I have been able to spend time getting to know the Caiman on the lounge system, so can now make reasonable comparison with the 7510.

Let's just concentrate on the bass. The 7510 has more bass, but it is not well controlled bass. I note this both with speakers and headphones.

Now why is this? Is it down to the DAC chip, or the supporting op amps and analogue circuitry? I can understand why harsh treble might be a function of DAC quality, but I would expect a DAC to work well at low frequencies. I guess that sloppy bass is a function of the choice of op amps and the design of their supporting circuitry.

Am I right?

daveyboy
01-09-2009, 14:12
Hi it's interesting you mention this, when you describe the bass as not being well controlled, can you elaborate further please?

Labarum
01-09-2009, 14:27
Hi it's interesting you mention this, when you describe the bass as not being well controlled, can you elaborate further please?

Percussive bass shows the effect most clearly. A tympani sound low, but when the drumstick hit the drum skin you should be able to hear the "thwack" and not just a woolly "oomph". A plucked string bass instrument would also lose realism if the bass is not right - bass guitar, pizzicato double bass of cello, even strong playing in the left hand by a pianist.

The whole playback chain should be able to deliver a high intensity low frequency pulse and recover immediately. It's usually the mechanical parts that let this down - speaker-cone-in-box or cartridge-in-arm-on-turntable that cannot cope with these bass pulses resulting in a poorly controlled sound.

If the mechanical or even electrical components continue to ring when they should be silent the bass becomes, loose, woolly, poorly controlled.

As I said, these failings are analogue in nature. The Caiman improves both the DAC chip and the op-amps and in so doing improves the bass.

Is the improved bass down mostly to better op-amps?

(It's very windy here and my normally reliable internet connection keeps dropping out - and the Squeezebox goes silent!)

daveyboy
01-09-2009, 14:36
So it now sounds notably flatter but better defined?

Labarum
01-09-2009, 14:45
So it now sounds notably flatter but better defined?


Certainly better defined, but "flatter" is not a word I would use in this context.

Flatter, maybe, in sense a well toned abdomen is contrasted to "fatter" - taut, controlled, powerful.

daveyboy
01-09-2009, 14:59
As long as it retains it's ability to punch out bass, then I will be happy :)
However going back to your question, from other forums it seems like the notable bass improvements are due to the op amps. People mentioned that swapping the stock amps for the now as standard Caiman op amps changed the bass considerably.