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Reffc
13-02-2015, 11:20
On Wednesday, I had the pleasure of being invited to visit Tom, as I was in the area on business. For those unaware, Tom has been a die-hard Tannoy fan for many years, and it's fair to say has been on somewhat of a journey with all sorts of Tannoys and amplification.

I have known Tom for a good few years now and he was one of RFC's first customers when we first threw the doors open for business 4 or 5 years ago. We soon became good friends as we share similar tastes in music and music history, as well as wine and curry! Tom was aware that I had been working on developing a fixed inductor circuit for Tannoys which helped smooth the mid range, especially at and an octave or two above crossover so had been following progress in the sidelines. Long story short was that Tom seemed to be in a bit of a Tannoy Bermuda Triangle, not knowing which way to turn after his big Autographs were evicted from his new home, so we had a chat and his RFC-Canterbury speakers were born. These look similar to the existing Tannoy Canterburys for the 12 inch Monitor Golds, but that's where the similarities end. They are 30% larger, have a slightly different tuning vent construction and indeed a different tuning point. Internally, they are vastly different with constrained panel design applied for some fairly complex bracing designs and are well damped. They were also designed specifically with the HPD in mind and not the MG.

Tom has often suggested that I popped down for a listen and having got the chance recently took him up on the offer. It was a real pleasure to be invited into Tom & his wife's lovely new home and to have the pleasure of hearing these for the first time:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/IMG_9413_zps664e078f.jpg

Tom has amassed a very carefully thought out system, which has been designed not just to get the best from the Tannoys, but voiced to get the best from his vast LP music collection, comprising mainly early classical. The big Radford works stunningly well with the Tannoys providing no shortage of grip or finesse at all volumes. Tom's front end (TD124 with AN arm and some very tasty cartridges) is delicate, detailed yet authoritative and feeds some very high quality SUTs and RIAA stage with quite an unusual Re-equalisation box of tricks to equalise for various types of differnt recordings.

There was also a particularly impressive DAC and transport lurking at the other side of the rack.

We listened to several pieces, including a wonderfully recorded Louis Armstrong LP which left the gravel like voice of Satchmo hanging ion the air with such fidelity and emotion, it was hard not to smile. Utterly enthralling. Bass lines were effortless, natural and timbrelly correct with lovely detail in the rise and decay, especially on Cello and other stringed instruments.

The star of the show were Tom's big speakers, which whilst not overly dominating the space are no shrinking violets either. They fit into the space very well, and the finish that Russ has left on these (whilst perhaps a little different to how I would have finished them) is nonetheless very good indeed. A few more shots:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/IMG_9414_zps5474f7d7.jpg


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/IMG_9415_zps62c637ec.jpg

The Cora (correct me if that's wrong Tom as I know it was one of the suggestions at the time) grille covering fabric is fabulous. Not as coarse as the original Tigan fabrics, with a lovely patternation and colour, it is the perfect match imho to the Sapele woodwork finish of the speakers and light enough not to make the speakers overly dominate.

Another aspect of Tom's system which struck me was just how much of it seemed to be arrived at through Tom's support and relationship with current UK cottage industry specialists including Grahaeme (Valvebloke), Will (Radfords) and myself and working closely like this with people he trusts has paid off if evidenced by what I saw and heard.

My thanks again to Tom and his lovely wife for a lovely lunch and some great tunes. I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of your system Tom and look forward to the next (preamp) chapter!

Andrei
13-02-2015, 11:48
Wine, Curry, music ... wish I was there.
Or If you were here: Wine, curry, Stravinsky ... glad you stayed at home!
Did a fab curry last weekend - fresh ginger, garlic, cumin, cardamon, chilli, pepper, (powdered) tumeric: blended for 24 hours hmm, Hawkes Bay wine hmmmmmm.

Reffc
13-02-2015, 12:34
Wine, Curry, music ... wish I was there.
Or If you were here: Wine, curry, Stravinsky ... glad you stayed at home!
Did a fab curry last weekend - fresh ginger, garlic, cumin, cardamon, chilli, pepper, (powdered) tumeric: blended for 24 hours hmm, Hawkes Bay wine hmmmmmm.

Sounds like my kind of meal! Yup, you'd enjoy listening to Tom's system/music I think Andrei.

Sovereign
13-02-2015, 13:26
Very smart black oak floor .

Marco
13-02-2015, 17:39
Nice write-up, Paul - and a lovely looking system and room, Tom, especially those gorgeous speakers! :eek:

I don't doubt that the system sounds fab, as Tom and I share similar audio proclivities and system-building sensibilities. I hope to pop down myself and have a listen later in the year. Glad you guys had a good time. Meets like this are what the AoS community is all about :cool:

Marco.

montesquieu
14-02-2015, 00:12
It was lovely to see Paul the other day - he's been over a few times but not since the Canterburys entered service. He really put a huge effort into the design work - we pondered a lot about tuning options and impact vs bass extension and in the end I think this thinking really paid off. Paul's expertise in crossovers is also a major factor in these.

I'm over the moon about these speakers and, with my kit, for my music, in my room, they work better than even the Autographs did. (And while they scale similarly to the 15in MG GRFs, they go far deeper and perform far more evenly).

I took the kit out of my signature a while back as it was in a state of flux but probably worthwhile setting it out for the record, in case anyone is squinting at what is there in Paul's picture:

Driving the Tannoy Canterburys is a Radford STA100 power amp. This came from Finland, from the home of a former BBC and Decca recording engineers, and was brought up to spec by Graeme Hirst (Valvebloke, latterly trading as Ampregen), with huge help from Will at Radford Revival who wound new output transformers for it, as one was damaged. It's a 100w KT88 amp (running KT90s at the moment), the most powerful Radford ever made. Originally a studio amp with 100v line and 16ohm windings, Will had records in his files for an 8 ohm version of the original transformer, and that's what he had wound - the result is a perfect match with the Tannoys, up there with any amp I've heard with them at any price.

I love it - for Tannoys it's a real destination amp and I've really owned all sorts - including - just a random sample - EAR V20, EAR 509, Unison Research S8, some Chinese push pull 211s, Puresound A30 stock and modded, VAC PA90, Audion Silver Nights (including at one point active amplification with four Audion 300b monoblocks), Leben 660c, WAD 300b interstage push-pull, Audio Note Meishu Signature silver ended, Oto Phono Signature integrated and Conquest monoblocks - I could go on. I tried more than 30 amps with 15in MGs and also tried quite a few with 15in HPDs.

The Canterburys have 12in HPDs. I told the story here a while back, but I originally had 12in Monitor Golds in (I previously had various incarnations of 15in Monitor Golds, in GRF cabinets, Lockwood Majors and then Autographs - the latter being too big for the new house when we moved). Paul insisted that 12in HPD would work better in these cabinets. I was skeptical but later converted when I borrowed a pair to try this out - I got an extra octave out of them without any loss of subtlety). Anyway it's all documented in various places here. It was a no-brainer in the end to replace the 12in MGs with HPDs.

My digital source is an Audio Note CDT2/II transport (bought new direct from Audio Note) and an Audio Note kit Dac 2.1x. This has been upgraded several times, first of all to 2.1x balanced spec with the SuperHIB output transformers, then further to 4.1 spec with upraded 1/V transformers, improved core material and other mods including a switched input incorporating a USB input board (two co-ax and one AES/EBU inputs, two with high-spec audio note input transformers, one of the co-ax inputs has a FET input buffer, plus an asychronous USB input. Max resolution is 24/192 but I'm done improving digital - this will see me out. It's left me more convinced than ever that the REALLY important bit of the DAC is its function as a preamp, not the digital element.

On the vinyl side (my main source) I have a Thorens TD124 Mk II. I've ended up here after various LP12 evolutions over the course of 20 years, a Townshend Rock Reference, Voyd 3-motor, Garrard 401 and a few Lenco projects. All those have their strengths but the Thorens is just the most musical, in my opinion.

I run this with a Miyajima Shilabe cartridge and an Audio Note Arm3/II (I owned one on the Voyd - superb arm), and an Audio Technica ATP12T for mono and 78 use (Miyjima Zero and Premium 78 cartridges). SUT options are S&B TX103 or (just in) Hashimoto HM7 - both put together by Valvebloke and the latter enabled for two arm input. Phono stage is an Aurorasound Vida LCR - I've really been blown away by this after trying many phono stages over a long period. I had a Longdog Audio one for many years, this has been the only one that pipped it. I also have an Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for correcting for pre-RIAA curves in early mono and 78s. Again I've been through literally dozens of cartridges from Linn to Koetsu, London Deccas, to Lyras, AN AJ-J Io complete with Kondo SUT, lots of Ortofons, from vintage and modern SPUS, Jubilee and Windfield, assorted ATs, and of course the obbligatory Denons, modded and unmodded.

Cables are generally sensible rather than exotic - RFC Audio interconnects for the most part, some Western Electric speaker cable, and stock power cords.

Preamp is the last piece of the puzzle. Latterly I had been using a Music First MkII TVC, which was great in the past with other bits of kit, but not a perfect match for the Radford for whatever reason. I currently have a Shindo Aurigies on loan, which is really very very nice (astonishing with timbre and tone), but am waiting on Will at Radford Revival to complete a prototype pre which should be a fascinating comparison.

Some preamps from the past might actually suit todays setup better than the power amps they were feeding at the time - the SJS Arcadia Model 2 I had springs to mind particularly, also the Border Patrol Control Unit, Leben 28cx and Audion Quattro - but synergy is an elusive thing!. The maddest pre was a DIY hifi supply Tram2 DHT which was specacular in some ways, but very unreliable in how things like switches worked (it was also pretty microphonic). Sometimes practicality wins out over pure sound quality.

Anyway it's taken me a couple of decades of trial and error - lots of error in particular - to end up here but moves in and out have really slowed. When the preamp choice is done, I'll be a happy man. I don't expect to change much from here on in.

Jimbo
20-02-2015, 20:28
I didnt think they were speakers - mistook them for a drinks cabinet!

petrat
21-02-2015, 16:51
I didnt think they were speakers - mistook them for a drinks cabinet!

Well, there is a little concealed door round the back ... but don't tell his wife :)

sjs
20-03-2015, 10:42
Tom,
Great write up, that is some journey!
That Tram2 of yours with 45 valve did do some amazing things, bit it was microphonic even if less so than my 2A3 version.
Best of luck with the preamp search, are you really suggesting you are going to settle after that 😉

montesquieu
20-03-2015, 10:55
Tom,
Great write up, that is some journey!
That Tram2 of yours with 45 valve did do some amazing things, bit it was microphonic even if less so than my 2A3 version.
Best of luck with the preamp search, are you really suggesting you are going to settle after that ��

Honestly ... I hope so. Will has loaned me a Woodside SC26 which he's done some work on, and it's not bad at all!

I can see myself still playing with stuff like cartridges, but I'll be glad when the big changes are complete (as, mostly, I think they are).




Well, there is a little concealed door round the back ... but don't tell his wife :)

It's where I keep the drugs stash. She doesn't know about it, but she also doesn't know that I know that she keeps her vodka in the washing machine :smoking:

User211
20-03-2015, 12:48
Musical interlude...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edDmtJYxg3U

Had to edit the first link as Jimmy made an appearance...:D

montesquieu
23-03-2015, 18:31
Had a visit from Matt 'schneiderhan' yesterday ... seven glorious hours of Lieder (almost uninterrupted, barring a spot of lunch) huge fun and listening materialc covered everything from Willi Domgraff Fassbaender on 78 in 1934, to the latest and greatest from the Wigmore ... though I think we both have a soft spot for the giants of the 50s and 60s, Fischer Dieskau, Prey, Schwartzkopf .... Matt has a penchant for Peter Schreier .... I'm not quite such a fan but can handle him in small doses!

Matt is great company and filled in quite a few gaps in my knowledge of both composers and performers which was hugely appreciated.

Conclusion is I need to do two things:

1) after 18 months in the new house it's time I sorted out the totally random way my records and CDs are ordered (actually, 'ordered' isn't the word)
2) after 18 months I need to have a new classical music day. This will be a Saturday or Sunday in May, I've decided. Watch this space! (And don't worry other music than Lieder will be allowed, indeed if Jerry wants to bring his Shostakovich he'll be most welcome).

schneiderhan
23-03-2015, 19:39
It was a really interesting day. I share with Tom a Radford (sadly it's just an STA15:) - I adore it beyond measure) and a Thorens 124 and I recently bought the Ortofon SUT (6600) that Tom was selling which sounds incredible with modern / vintage SPUs.

Not much to add to what Paul (RFC) said about the sound of Tom's system and a quick bit of jazz really showed what it could do - absolutely wonderful (there's not much bass on Lieder recordings!).

Learnt quite a few things from Tom along with some potential new discoveries. And yes I admit I have an unhealthy obsession with Peter Schreier who is very much an acquired taste on account of his sometimes unpleasant tone and over-emphasis of words. But his clear diction is second to none and I think he does tell you what some of those songs are really about. There are of course endless possibilities of expression when you match words to music as decades of (inferior! - only joking) popular music also show.

BTW we did also plug in Anthony's AOS amp (the Yaqin which Ian W once owned and which is in my possession) and it produced a great sound that you could happily listen to all day long! No surprise that it matched the Tannoys so well given its pedigree.

PS I'm listening to Shostakovich quartets at the moment so I'm good with that!

Marco
23-03-2015, 19:49
Great stuff, chaps! Always good to hear about successful little get-togethers :)

Not surprised the TD (modded Yaqin) amp worked well with Tom's Tannoys, Matt - just imagine what a Copper amp would be like! ;)

Oh, and Shosty roolz!!

Marco.

The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 19:58
Yup, sounds like a great get together. :) Love them Tannoy's... they look the biz.

montesquieu
23-03-2015, 20:08
Great stuff, chaps! Always good to hear about successful little get-togethers :)

Not surprised the TD (modded Yaquin) amp worked well with Tom's Tannoys, Matt - just imagine what a Copper amp would be like! ;)

Oh, and Shosty roolz!!

Marco.


I'm not one who generally speaks in an immodest way, but from many, many amp trials with Tannoys, I would venture to suggest the big Radford would give the copper amp a run for its money ... if you are up for a shootout sometime :)

The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 20:10
FIGHT...! FIGHT...! :popcorn:

Marco
23-03-2015, 22:16
I'm not one who generally speaks in an immodest way, but from many, many amp trials with Tannoys, I would venture to suggest the big Radford would give the copper amp a run for its money ... if you are up for a shootout sometime...

Lol... I'm sure it would - it's an excellent amp. I'll certainly bring the Copper amp down when I visit. Are you going to Scalford at the weekend? If so, we can chat and arrange a date :)

Marco.

montesquieu
23-03-2015, 23:08
Lol... I'm sure it would - it's an excellent amp. I'll certainly bring the Copper amp down when I visit. Are you going to Scalford at the weekend? If so, we can chat and arrange a date :)

Marco.



Sounds great Marco.

I won't be at Scalford as have guests from overseas here ... I normally do a Tai Chi retreat at a Buddhist monastery the week before Easter anyway, so I've missed the last couple of years as that's been the date, only this year I've had to cancel the retreat as well due to the visitors. (There will be another one in France in October so I'll do that one instead).

Generally speaking I'm around and I work from home a lot so can be flexible about timing as well. Would be really great to have you down. I'm 10min off the M3 J4 and 15min from the M4 J10 so fairly easy to get to.

Marco
23-03-2015, 23:45
Sounds great, Tom. We'll so something in April then, yeah? Will let you know when nearer the time, probably be nearer the end of the month. I'll bring a few toys down... Should be a good sesh! :cool:

Marco.

montesquieu
27-03-2015, 12:14
Sounds great, Tom. We'll so something in April then, yeah? Will let you know when nearer the time, probably be nearer the end of the month. I'll bring a few toys down... Should be a good sesh! :cool:

Marco.

Thought I'd replied to this, sounds perfect :)

Marco
27-03-2015, 13:08
Nice one, dude. If I forget (as I've got so much going on), remind me! :)

Marco.

jandl100
28-03-2015, 06:42
2) after 18 months I need to have a new classical music day. This will be a Saturday or Sunday in May, I've decided. Watch this space! (And don't worry other music than Lieder will be allowed, indeed if Jerry wants to bring his Shostakovich he'll be most welcome).

Make that a Sunday for me, if you can, Tom! :)

--- and, yes, do go easy on the Lieder --- ;) :lol:

montesquieu
28-03-2015, 20:40
Make that a Sunday for me, if you can, Tom! :)

--- and, yes, do go easy on the Lieder --- ;) :lol:

No worries Jerry I'll spare your delicate sensibilities the horrors of Schubert + Goethe ....

hornucopia
29-03-2015, 11:51
That's what makes our hobby (obsession?) interesting. A day of lieder would be hell for me -as, I imagine, for Tom a day of-say- Pat Metheny - would be, let alone Los Lobos and John Hiatt!
Though maybe he could stand some Fado?
Perhaps I'd have to stick to guitar flamenco (I say 'guitar' as I'm not sure Cante Hondo (song) would suit someone whose ears are tuned to Plainsong!)
And I'm wincing at Opera on 'Private Passions' on radio as I type!

montesquieu
29-03-2015, 12:08
That's what makes our hobby (obsession?) interesting. A day of lieder would be hell for me -as, I imagine, for Tom a day of-say- Pat Metheny - would be, let alone Los Lobos and John Hiatt!
Though maybe he could stand some Fado?
Perhaps I'd have to stick to guitar flamenco (I say 'guitar' as I'm not sure Cante Hondo (song) would suit someone whose ears are tuned to Plainsong!)
And I'm wincing at Opera on 'Private Passions' on radio as I type!

Actually I'm quite a Pat Metheney fan but I haven't heard of any of the others. :)

Hell for me is actually anything in the 'girl with guitar' department ....

BTW on reflection perhaps have posted this here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37658-Mega-SUT-shoot-out-seven-%28and-a-half%29-SUTs-on-trial!!-a-brief-review

DSJR
29-03-2015, 12:31
Great stuff, chaps! Always good to hear about successful little get-togethers :)

just imagine what a Copper amp would be like! ;)

Marco.

Now that's a mean thing to say, as your amp is one of only two or three... ;)

Don't know if Ant could make a new 'Copper' amp, or maybe his current TD amps are better again.....

The Barbarian
29-03-2015, 12:33
Marco:
Would you change amps if you heard something better! or is your amp the best in da world? :D

Marco
30-03-2015, 08:45
Now that's a mean thing to say, as your amp is one of only two or three... ;)

Don't know if Ant could make a new 'Copper' amp, or maybe his current TD amps are better again.....

Lol... Oh he would, if someone wanted one and was willing to pay around £5k for it. His Soul monoblocks are even better (certainly in some areas), but they're about £15k.

Marco.

Marco
30-03-2015, 08:49
Marco:
Would you change amps if you heard something better! or is your amp the best in da world? :D

I've never said that it's the best amp in the world, dude. I like it, and most others who've heard it also seem to. I've already stated that Tom's Radford could give it a run for its money, and I'm sure that'll prove to be the case when we have our sesh :)

Marco.

hornucopia
01-04-2015, 13:58
Anyway Pass SIT are best.....? (-:

montesquieu
20-11-2015, 00:14
Ok ... hear ye hear ye an all ....

Assuming my new pre will be here by then (and I'm pretty certain it will be) I"m going to schedule another (mostly) Classical Music Day.

To accommodate Jerry (who I hope can make the date) I'm looking at Sunday 13th December, starting around noon. I'll provide some nosh.

It's not really a bakeoff as such, just bring music - antidote to the usual bakeoff scenario where the one classical album of the day sees a run for the kitchen ...

I have a mate coming along but can probably accommodate another 4-5.

montesquieu
20-11-2015, 00:15
Forgot to add my kit will be

RFC Tannoy Canterburys
Radford STA100
Will's new prototype Radford Revival preamp
TD124 MkII / Fidelity Research FR64S / Miyajimas x3 - Shilabe (stereo) Zero (mono) and Premiu BE (78) also probably a few MMs including B&O SP1 and Denon 109D with Shibata tip
Aurorasound Vida and Hashimoto HM7s
Audio Note CDT2/II and AN kit DAC 2.1x upgraded to 4.1x spec, DAC also fed by RPi with HifiBerry digi board

jandl100
20-11-2015, 07:39
To accommodate Jerry (who I hope can make the date) I'm looking at Sunday 13th December, starting around noon.

:hmm:


I'll provide some nosh.

:drool: :thumbsup:









:D

Reffc
20-11-2015, 08:45
I'm sure Jerry will enjoy the visit and relent about Tannoys Tom!

The other pair I hope to have completed this week all bar the finishing which will take me a further week, so there'll be a pair here possibly from next Thursday onwards. I'm having some name-plates made for these as well Tom so if you'd like a couple (copper coloured and CNC machined with the RFC Logo and model nr), please let me know

Regards

Paul

montesquieu
20-11-2015, 12:56
I'm sure Jerry will enjoy the visit and relent about Tannoys Tom!

The other pair I hope to have completed this week all bar the finishing which will take me a further week, so there'll be a pair here possibly from next Thursday onwards. I'm having some name-plates made for these as well Tom so if you'd like a couple (copper coloured and CNC machined with the RFC Logo and model nr), please let me know

Regards

Paul


Fab - yes please Paul.

Barry
20-11-2015, 19:52
Congratulations on your 1,000th post Tom! :)

montesquieu
21-11-2015, 17:37
Congratulations on your 1,000th post Tom! :)


Thanks! Sneaked up on me that did.

Still only Jerry confirmed for the classical music day ... maybe I should start a new thread ....

User211
21-11-2015, 19:04
Might be an idea Tom.

It is worth going chaps. I rate those particular Tannoy's the best I have ever heard bar Kingdom Royal Carbon Edition with Thrax amps.

They were just stonking with my old Beard BB100. The 100 Watt Radford's may well be even better!

Marco
21-11-2015, 19:53
Congratulations on your 1,000th post Tom! :)

+1. Keep up the daftness! ;)

Marco.

montesquieu
23-11-2015, 10:40
Might be an idea Tom.

It is worth going chaps. I rate those particular Tannoy's the best I have ever heard bar Kingdom Royal Carbon Edition with Thrax amps.

They were just stonking with my old Beard BB100. The 100 Watt Radford's may well be even better!


Thanks for this Justin - till you came I had no idea they could go as loud as that (I think the neighbours were surprised too at my sudden change in musical tastes!).

For the record, I did start a new thread on this but I've unfortuantely had to postpone till New Year, I'll set a new date mid-Jan once Christmas is out of the way and it's easier for people to get a day pass :)

User211
23-11-2015, 13:02
The defining moment for me was whoever was in your garden coming in and seemingly really liking it.

Classical fans? Probably not, I'd guess:)

Reffc
30-11-2015, 19:38
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/IMG_0537_zpsmwal0mip.jpg :D

Marco
30-11-2015, 19:57
Gorgeous!! :eek: :wowzer: :drool:

Marco.

montesquieu
30-11-2015, 20:10
Gorgeous Paul.

Mine for reference - I tend to use them grilles on, grilles off they don't have the elegance of what Paul has done here.



http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/cant3_zps55f3f5ae.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/IMG_9413_zps664e078f.jpg

Reffc
30-11-2015, 20:20
Thanks chaps.

I was surprised Tom just how transparent they sound with grilles on, despite the Cara data on that fabric, it really doesn't get in the way sonically...then again it could just be that I'm deaf!

The sonics are very similar to yours Tom, much as expected. I agree with you that the tuning is bang-on judging by what I've heard this evening. I have to say that they better anything I've heard at any hifi show over the past 4 years or so. Very natural and effortless.

There's a pair in the States now too, so that makes 3 pairs in circulation and plans for another two pairs to be built.

If I make any further improvements, it will be to minor details such as how the grille frames are constructed (they were a complete PITA to do).

Your brass name plates will be ready this week by the way ;)

Andrei
30-11-2015, 20:37
Gorgeous Paul.
Mine for reference - I tend to use them grilles on, grilles off they don't have the elegance of what Paul has done here.
I prefer the look with the grilles off.

petrat
30-11-2015, 23:12
Your brass name plates will be ready this week by the way

Presumably to facilitate conversion for use as coffins? I plan to go to the great pie in the sky in one of mine ... viking style on a pyre :D

brian2957
30-11-2015, 23:22
Hah ! Pretty sure you could fit a mast and a large sail to these :D

Absolutely beautiful BTW :)

Reffc
01-12-2015, 08:50
Presumably to facilitate conversion for use as coffins? I plan to go to the great pie in the sky in one of mine ... viking style on a pyre :D

They're almost large enough for that Peter!

Reffc
01-12-2015, 08:52
Hah ! Pretty sure you could fit a mast and a large sail to these :D

Absolutely beautiful BTW :)

I have a Seagull outboard motor knocking around somewhere...pretty sure that would fit! I may offer the boating upgrades to Tom.

montesquieu
01-12-2015, 17:45
I have a Seagull outboard motor knocking around somewhere...pretty sure that would fit! I may offer the boating upgrades to Tom.

Can't beat a nice 'liquid' presentation ;)

brian2957
01-12-2015, 17:50
And bass ' as deep as the ocean ' :D

Reffc
01-12-2015, 18:13
And bass ' as deep as the ocean ' :D

That's some Bass...

http://www.myfishingforecast.net/sites/default/files//bass%20fish.jpg

The bass certainly shows itself. It doesn't so much rattle the windows as rattle the house!

Ammonite Audio
02-12-2015, 10:22
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/RFC%20Cables/IMG_0537_zpsmwal0mip.jpg :D

Nice telly!

Only joking - I've heard Tom's Tannoys and these are the only ones that I would want to live with. Lovely sounding things, and (to my eyes) elegant too. Anyone harbouring a sniffy attitude to HPDs should hear what Paul does with them - they really do leave MGs for dead. And they do bass.

Marco
02-12-2015, 10:30
Anyone harbouring a sniffy attitude to HPDs should hear what Paul does with them - they really do leave MGs for dead.

<Cough> :eyebrows:

Don't doubt the former, but the latter is entirely subjective, and based on your experience of undertaking relevant comparisons. Furthermore, there are so many different variables to consider... Personally, I'd avoid making definitive statements on such matters, as one day it's liable to come back and bite you on the bum! ;)

Marco.

Ammonite Audio
02-12-2015, 10:40
Ha! I thought that you'd rise to that!

Pee-taking apart, Tom's speakers are just lovely, lovely things. Easier to accommodate in UK rooms than the sort of enclosures that are needed to make MGs work properly. Don't forget that Tom went through various iterations of MGs before settling on these. So, my Tannoy comparisons have been largely courtesy of Tom, but they are real and I have heard enough to form my own clear conclusions.

Marco
02-12-2015, 10:49
Lol - and yes, I respect that.

However, and I'm not being smug here at all, much as I agree with what you're saying and admire the design skills of those in question, I'd happily put my 15MG-based Lockies up against ANY HPD-based Tannoys of any description, and feel that they wouldn't be disgraced.

What you have to get your head around in audio is that absolutely EVERYTHING is some form of compromise. There is no universally better anything.

Therefore, the reality is, if such a comparison (as outlined above) was to take place, then what would happen is that both sets of speakers would reveal their respective strengths and weaknesses - and so there would be no outright 'winner'.

Such is life (and hi-fi)! :)

Marco.

Ammonite Audio
02-12-2015, 11:09
Of course it's about compromises, just like my Quads represent a bucketload of compromises pitched against unmatched strengths, but Paul has managed to drag the maligned HPD up to a level of performance that's remarkable, given that these drive units are not revered like the MGs are. Given a suitable opportunity to compare well-implemented MGs against these speakers of Paul's, at modest listening levels, I reckon that even you would be won over. Paul's speakers deliver deep, controlled and tuneful bass at low listening levels, which is a big plus in my book, but they do the Tannoy musical coherence thing just as well as MGs too. So, my point is that these speakers match the strengths of suitably housed MGs while obliterating their weaknesses.

All preference, of course, but given the funds and a house without immediate neighbours, I would be talking to Paul about a pair of these.

montesquieu
02-12-2015, 11:15
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/clint-pic_zpsvzaim4xj.jpg


It's interesting discussion, I wouldn't be nearly so forthright as Hugo here, but 12in HPDs in these cabinets are nevertheless where I ended up.

It seems to me that the sonic characteristics of the 12in HPD (**done right** is the proviso) are very very close (I wouldn't say quite equal, but very close, maybe 98%) to the 15in MG in terms of full range impact and sweetness, while (in the right cabinet) they do have a beefier and lower bass response. I haven't had such great experiences with 12in MG (sweet and lovely but very hard to get impact out of them anything close to full range - they just don't go as low as 12in HPDs) and 15in HPD (none I have tried/heard quite as good as 15in MGs).

I've had 15in MGs and HPDs in quite a range of cabinets (for a time I had both sets of 15in drivers and two sets of crossovers at the same time) - Lancasters, Lockwoods, R-GRFs (for quite a few years) and of course Autographs. 12in MG and HPD (both, again at the same time) I've tried in Chatsworth, custom sealed units and latterly in Paul's RFC Canterburys.

The impact of amps is major in all this - I have tried well over 30 amps with the above combos and come to the following conclusions:

1) Single ended amps will go loud enough but unless they have exceptional iron will never have the clarity (especially in the bass) of a good push-pull amp with at least 15-20w for MGs and 40-50w for HPD. Up to a point there's an exception if they are in little cabinets not producing much low bass anyway. I've personally never heard a single ended amp do the job properly, not even a big 211 or 845, but I'm assured (by Nick Gorham no less) that such amps do exist.
2) KT88/KT90/KT120s RULE! although well-driven EL34s can come close especially with MGs. The trick is in the damping factor, you want a decent amount (more than just about any single ended valve amp will give you) but not too much or there's a danger the life will be sucked out. This is more of an issue on the 15in than on the 12in, as that big cone is a bugger to control properly.
3) Amp requirements are divergent between MGs and HPDs, the HPDs sound best with 50-100w valve power but also respond really well to big solid state jobbies (I had huge fun with a 200w Lyngdorf). 12w PP will do a decent though not quite optimal job with MGs, but will fail to adequately light up HPDs in a normal sized room.

Marco
02-12-2015, 11:18
Fortunately, I have a dedicated room in which to use my Lockies, and no immediate neighbours, so I can play music as loudly as I like, as often as I like, at whatever time I fancy... :)

In any case, the "maligned HPD" has never been such, IMO. I've heard loads of examples of Tannoy HPDs, and all have impressed in different ways.

However, at the end of the day, no matter what you do, both drivers have a different style of musical presentation - and much will depend on how optimally they've been partnered with the right cabinets, thus allowing the respective drive units to 'behave' as intended.

I have ZERO doubt whatsoever that I would love Paul's Tannoys (consider that a given), so there is no 'winning over' to be done. However, I'm equally certain that, as good as they are, they would not 'leave my MGs for dead'... ;)

At some point, in the interests of 'new discoveries', we should carry out that comparison, perhaps at Scalford? It's been a while since I've had the, erm, 'pleasure' of lugging the Lockwoods down to such an event! :eek: :doh: :eyebrows:

Marco.

Marco
02-12-2015, 11:41
Love the Clint Eastwood thing, btw, Tom :eyebrows:

Anyway...


The impact of amps is major in all this - I have tried well over 30 amps with the above combos and come to the following conclusions:

1) Single ended amps will go loud enough but unless they have exceptional iron will never have the clarity (especially in the bass) of a good push-pull amp with at least 15-20w for MGs and 40-50w for HPD. Up to a point there's an exception if they are in little cabinets not producing much low bass anyway. I've personally never heard a single ended amp do the job properly, not even a big 211 or 845, but I'm assured (by Nick Gorham no less) that such amps do exist.
2) KT88/KT90/KT120s RULE! although well-driven EL34s can come close especially with MGs. The trick is in the damping factor, you want a decent amount (more than just about any single ended valve amp will give you) but not too much or there's a danger the life will be sucked out. This is more of an issue on the 15in than on the 12in, as that big cone is a bugger to control properly.
3) Amp requirements are divergent between MGs and HPDs, the HPDs sound best with 50-100w valve power but also respond really well to big solid state jobbies (I had huge fun with a 200w Lyngdorf). 12w PP will do a decent though not quite optimal job with MGs, but will fail to adequately light up HPDs in a normal sized room.

I completely concur, as the above largely mirrors my own experience.

I would, personally, never ever use any big Tannoy DCs with a flea-powered SET amp. It just doesn't work - or rather 'work' to a level I would consider as satisfactory. I think it's worth pointing out that virtually all of my large Tannoy DC listening has been carried out with a Copper amp, or other big KT88/120 valve amp of some description, where serious attention has been paid to the PSU sections (iron used in traffos).

I have little doubt that's why I've always been able to appreciate big Tannoy DCs (HPD or MG - and even Monitor Reds) at or near their best, [the right 'infrastructure' has always been in place, allowing them to perform to their true potential], and so haven't required undertaking a 'convoluted journey' to arrive at a state of complete satisfaction! ;)

Marco.

Reffc
02-12-2015, 11:58
Fortunately, I have a dedicated room in which to use my Lockies, and no immediate neighbours, so I can play music as loudly as I like, as often as I like, at whatever time I fancy... :)

In any case, the "maligned HPD" has never been such, IMO. I've heard loads of examples of Tannoy HPDs, and all have impressed in different ways.

However, at the end of the day, no matter what you do, both drivers have a different style of musical presentation - and much will depend on how optimally they've been partnered with the right cabinets, thus allowing the respective drive units to 'behave' as intended.

I have ZERO doubt whatsoever that I would love Paul's Tannoys (consider that a given), so there is no 'winning over' to be done. However, I'm equally certain that, as good as they are, they would not 'leave my MGs for dead'... ;)

At some point, in the interests of 'new discoveries', we should carry out that comparison, perhaps at Scalford? It's been a while since I've had the, erm, 'pleasure' of lugging the Lockwoods down to such an event! :eek: :doh: :eyebrows:

Marco.

Wow..hadn't intended on a "War of the Tannoys" response to the thread!;)

Thank you Hugo for your kind words and some day perhaps you'll get your wish, so I'll add you to the "maybe" build list!

I think that Tom's balanced response is a fair one, and I've heard some of Tom's iterations along his Tannoy journey, and suffice to say, I wasn't blown away by any combination that I heard at Tom's place (or elsewhere come to that) and after years of messing about with Tannoys, decided to see what I could do with them in earnest. To cut a long story short, I ended up with the RFC Canterbury design which relies on equal partnerships between the right driver/cabinet design/crossover, the the RFC Canterburys were the result.


As you say Marco, it isn't so much one being "better" than the other, but both types having strengths and as with all hifi, personal subjective choices. I will say that compared with most vintage Tannoy designs, the RFC Canterburys exhibit fewer compromises by design, something which has taken a great deal of effort and cost. I think, if I may in all modesty say so, that is reflected in how they do indeed sound.

I will have a slightly more refined set ready in the New Year on permanent demo, so the opportunity will exist for anyone interested to come and listen for themselves.

Marco
02-12-2015, 12:04
No problem with any of that, Paul. Would love to come and hear the RFC Canterburys sometime. If you lived closer, it would've already happened! :)

Marco.

George47
18-01-2016, 10:24
Having e-mailed Tom I went round to hear the Tannoys. I am in a different position to others in that I am updating a system and want to put together a 'final' system. The system is currently an Esoteric P03/D03 CD player, a Voyd Ref/SME V and Io, an ARC Ref 5SE, a Ref 75SE and a set of Wilson 6s. I have updated all the bits of kit excluding the Wilsons. I was looking for a system that will do all the drama of the current set up but with a more organic, human and natural sound. I have started to settle on Wilson Sashas having heard Audionotes and Sonus Fabers without hitting the magic spot. I had separately put my name down for a bake-off at Grahams who was using a Tannoy GRF made by Speedysteve. Having heard them and got a very positive vibe (another story) I asked Tom if I could hear his set up. I did warn him I prefer more modern music as well as classical.

I turned up and was made very welcome by Tom and his good lady. Having a good look at the set up and the speakers although of a period looked a lot more modern than the classic Tannoys. On goes a few albums and what had struck me at Grahams was here in spades, the sheer naturalness and 'liveness' of the music. I put on Finlandia (CD) and even before the music started the ambience of the hall was easily heard. When the music started there was a real shock caused by the sheer drama of the music. This was a real strength of the system. The musical dynamics were a positive strength. As the music carried on the tonal saturation was another positive and the musical instruments were very real. Tom played some classical tunes and the realism of the instruments was excellent. Also the musicality of the music was striking and it was fascinating listening to some really old recordings, which showed a whole lot of real character which we doubted would have been heard when the albums were released.

I then played some of my favs (maybe not Toms). On goes Caro Emerald with a wicked bass line, which Toms set up had no problem showing. It differentiated the notes, colour and tone of this electronically produced bass. Although a little 'fat' it was very tight. Tom mentioned that his fave preamp was away and he was using an inexpensive pre in its place. That was doing a sterling job. On then goes Percy......Led Zep 1....and the system showed uo the power in RP's voice and the speed of the drumming. If I was being a shade critical I would say it was a little slower than I am used to but that could be that preamp.

I did mention to Tom that I would be happy to bring along my Ref 5SEs (now with new valves) to compare to his Radford when it returns.

Overall though these speakers have caused a rethink and I have already started talking to Paul at RFC.

And thanks to Tom for his hospitality and a dam good listening session.

montesquieu
18-01-2016, 20:50
Having e-mailed Tom I went round to hear the Tannoys. I am in a different position to others in that I am updating a system and want to put together a 'final' system. The system is currently an Esoteric P03/D03 CD player, a Voyd Ref/SME V and Io, an ARC Ref 5SE, a Ref 75SE and a set of Wilson 6s. I have updated all the bits of kit excluding the Wilsons. I was looking for a system that will do all the drama of the current set up but with a more organic, human and natural sound. I have started to settle on Wilson Sashas having heard Audionotes and Sonus Fabers without hitting the magic spot. I had separately put my name down for a bake-off at Grahams who was using a Tannoy GRF made by Speedysteve. Having heard them and got a very positive vibe (another story) I asked Tom if I could hear his set up. I did warn him I prefer more modern music as well as classical.

I turned up and was made very welcome by Tom and his good lady. Having a good look at the set up and the speakers although of a period looked a lot more modern than the classic Tannoys. On goes a few albums and what had struck me at Grahams was here in spades, the sheer naturalness and 'liveness' of the music. I put on Finlandia (CD) and even before the music started the ambience of the hall was easily heard. When the music started there was a real shock caused by the sheer drama of the music. This was a real strength of the system. The musical dynamics were a positive strength. As the music carried on the tonal saturation was another positive and the musical instruments were very real. Tom played some classical tunes and the realism of the instruments was excellent. Also the musicality of the music was striking and it was fascinating listening to some really old recordings, which showed a whole lot of real character which we doubted would have been heard when the albums were released.

I then played some of my favs (maybe not Toms). On goes Caro Emerald with a wicked bass line, which Toms set up had no problem showing. It differentiated the notes, colour and tone of this electronically produced bass. Although a little 'fat' it was very tight. Tom mentioned that his fave preamp was away and he was using an inexpensive pre in its place. That was doing a sterling job. On then goes Percy......Led Zep 1....and the system showed uo the power in RP's voice and the speed of the drumming. If I was being a shade critical I would say it was a little slower than I am used to but that could be that preamp.

I did mention to Tom that I would be happy to bring along my Ref 5SEs (now with new valves) to compare to his Radford when it returns.

Overall though these speakers have caused a rethink and I have already started talking to Paul at RFC.

And thanks to Tom for his hospitality and a dam good listening session.


Pleasure to have you round, George. Done right, Tannoys do scale and dynamics, that's for sure, while Paul's work on this RFC Canterbury has to my mind optimised the good stuff and minimised any down sides of the the Tannoy DC. Nice to get some 'different' music once in a while. (Even yours, Justin!).

The preamp was this one, Sheer Audio Direct Heated Triode (12A) pre - single gain stage. Silly cheap from Taiwan (under £300, equates to about £400 landed including postage and customs charges).

Out of the box it showed promise but had an unfortunate glare in the midrange I wasn't keen on. Graeme H (Valvebloke/Ampregen) worked some magic on it sorting out grounding, eliminating microphonics and improving a few strange component choices. End result is not a bad sound at all, I have in the past paid far more and got a lot less. Will's pre is off for a tweak in the PSU, due back tomorrow. :)

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/sheerDHT_zpskst4myv2.jpg

Marco
18-01-2016, 21:03
What's happened to your Radford preamp, Tom? :)

Marco.

montesquieu
18-01-2016, 21:26
What's happened to your Radford preamp, Tom? :)

Marco.


Will had it back briefly. It's due home again tomorrow :D

Marco
18-01-2016, 23:05
Ah, I see. Nice one. Pity that wasn't in your system when George was visiting :)

Marco.

Reffc
19-01-2016, 06:57
Pleasure to have you round, George. Done right, Tannoys do scale and dynamics, that's for sure, while Paul's work on this RFC Canterbury has to my mind optimised the good stuff and minimised any down sides of the the Tannoy DC. Nice to get some 'different' music once in a while. (Even yours, Justin!).

The preamp was this one, Sheer Audio Direct Heated Triode (12A) pre - single gain stage. Silly cheap from Taiwan (under £300, equates to about £400 landed including postage and customs charges).

Out of the box it showed promise but had an unfortunate glare in the midrange I wasn't keen on. Graeme H (Valvebloke/Ampregen) worked some magic on it sorting out grounding, eliminating microphonics and improving a few strange component choices. End result is not a bad sound at all, I have in the past paid far more and got a lot less. Will's pre is off for a tweak in the PSU, due back tomorrow. :)

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/sheerDHT_zpskst4myv2.jpg

Are those valves each wearing a pair of "Beats by Dre" Tom? :eek:

montesquieu
19-01-2016, 10:08
Are those valves each wearing a pair of "Beats by Dre" Tom? :eek:

Herbies finest tube dampers I'll have you know!

And some eBay cheapies. Remarkably effective in combination.

George47
19-01-2016, 18:17
Having made that impression on me a nice Tannoy has come on the market at a tempting price. It needs re-coning and I do not know a good re-coner from a bad one. Anyone help as I am tempted as they use 15" speakers although the quality of RFC is really, really tempting...Oh decisions.....

walpurgis
19-01-2016, 18:42
I'd go by Paul's (RFC) advice if I were you. He's dealt with enough Tannoys to know what your best bet is. I suspect he may point you towards Lockwood Audio for any recones or other driver fettling. Unless he's now doing them. :)

Reffc
19-01-2016, 19:20
Having made that impression on me a nice Tannoy has come on the market at a tempting price. It needs re-coning and I do not know a good re-coner from a bad one. Anyone help as I am tempted as they use 15" speakers although the quality of RFC is really, really tempting...Oh decisions.....

I've dropped you a private email George as following on from our chat, there is a lovely fully re-coned set available for you and in the "preferred" variety! ;)

Radford Revival
21-01-2016, 20:30
Will had it back briefly. It's due home again tomorrow :D

It's on the van ;)

Marco
21-01-2016, 20:32
Has it succumbed to further tweakage? ;)

Marco.

montesquieu
21-01-2016, 20:50
Has it succumbed to further tweakage? ;)

Marco.

PSU refinement. :)

Can't wait to hear.

Marco
21-01-2016, 21:38
Quality... Keep us posted of the results :cool:

Marco.

montesquieu
22-01-2016, 21:58
Quality... Keep us posted of the results :cool:

Marco.

Back and sounding utterly awesome.

I had the good fortune some years ago to hear a Kondo M77 in my system (the same one in Jonjin's latest recent sales post). The Kondo's fleeting visit was a real event, and stuck in my memory as the moment when I really learned the value of a preamp as being about letting music flow - yes the hifi attributes of timbre, texture, timing, atmospherics, soundstaging are all important, but at it's heart a preamp is about bringing coherence and flow to the sound, not in an artificial way but in a realistic, organic way that allows all those hifi attributes to take their proper place, none of them centre stage.

Will's pre is having a similar game-changing effect to the Kondo and indeed strongly reminds me of it. My system has been sounding very nice lately, but getting the pre back has been genuinely transformational. I'm sitting here feeling that it honestly can't get much (if any) better than this.

User211
22-01-2016, 22:31
JJ's Kondo was all about flow and organics. I heard it with a AN Japan Neiro and his Onken horns (I think they were). About 500000000 miles away from my system sonically but enjoyable nonetheless.

Glad the pre is shaping up, Tom.

Reffc
23-01-2016, 11:52
Back and sounding utterly awesome.

I had the good fortune some years ago to hear a Kondo M77 in my system (the same one in Jonjin's latest recent sales post). The Kondo's fleeting visit was a real event, and stuck in my memory as the moment when I really learned the value of a preamp as being about letting music flow - yes the hifi attributes of timbre, texture, timing, atmospherics, soundstaging are all important, but at it's heart a preamp is about bringing coherence and flow to the sound, not in an artificial way but in a realistic, organic way that allows all those hifi attributes to take their proper place, none of them centre stage.

Will's pre is having a similar game-changing effect to the Kondo and indeed strongly reminds me of it. My system has been sounding very nice lately, but getting the pre back has been genuinely transformational. I'm sitting here feeling that it honestly can't get much (if any) better than this.

Outstanding result Tom and well done to Will. It seems like he has a real winner in that preamp design.

Reffc
20-11-2016, 19:22
As an update, I visited Toms again yesterday for an evening of music and Tom, talented chap that he is, also included a recital on his Harpsochord and another interesting instrument called a Clavichord (Harpsichord Clavical?). Fabulous sound and if ever anyone needed convincing that no hifi comes really that close, just listening to music from the real thing is enough to convince. Better to achieve the sound you like and connect with (even if ditching what is commonly referred to as "accuracy" because it's a term with limited meaning).

Tom's system has come on in leaps and bounds since my last visit, and playing things from Leider, choral, Beethoven quartets and Jazz just convinced that this is close to about as good as I've heard hifi get to real music. In particular some early Leider-type pieces with a small ensemble really brought the voices alive in the room, thanks partly to the stunning collection of high end MC cartridges, Vida MC stage into Modwright Instruments Pre and of course that powerhouse of a Radford power amp. The crossover teaks have also brought notable improvements to the clarity and detail that his speakers now deliver. It was neither "Hi-Fi" sounding nor an obvious "facsimile" but frighteningly real in some senses, very refined and the micro-dynamics and clarity were outstanding....it just conveyed music well, allowing you to concentrate on the recordings and not drawing attention to any particular area of the system.

We played about a little with swapping various things in and out, includung my TRON MC phonostage, which gave the much more expensive Vida a real run for its money!

Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks Tom.

petrat
20-11-2016, 23:39
Harpsichord and clavichord, eh? You're honoured, Paul ... he threatened me with a banjo recital! Obviously, a tactic reserved for those that overstay their welcome :lol:

montesquieu
21-11-2016, 00:23
Harpsichord and clavichord, eh? You're honoured, Paul ... he threatened me with a banjo recital! Obviously, a tactic reserved for those that overstay their welcome :lol:

Obviously didn't paddle fast enought Peter :)

Was great to have you round Paul.

For those interested in the preamp story the Radford Revival one has gone back to Will for further tweakery and eventual finishing with proper casework, given workload though this could take some time.

Preamp status is therefore in a state of flux, I do like the Modwright in many ways but could really do with something with a tape loop ... being a bit flush right now having sold the EAR 899 I'm actually actively looking ....