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Gazjam
15-09-2014, 16:08
Finally getting down to it,
Know the theory, looking for specific reccy's of what to get if possible! :)

Looking for 6500K D65 lighting, or as close to it as possible.
My Plasmas hard against wall with only about 3" gap to wall.
So looking at strip lighting I guess?

Be good to be able to dim the light to get as close to the ideal 10% bias light needed.

Looked at the VisualChillout kit, but unavailable at the moment, so looking to buy up individual parts.
Any pointers much appreciated.

thanks. :)

Gazjam
18-09-2014, 14:56
No AV heads in the room?....

DarrenHW
19-09-2014, 17:41
Not heard about this before, but have had a quick google since reading your OP. I have quite a few fish tank lamps knocking about so will hook up the easiest tonight, it's 2700K so not within the suggested temperature but I'm quite interested to see what it's like. :interesting:

Gazjam
19-09-2014, 18:05
let us know mate, be good to hear what you think.

Good info here:
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/blb.htm

roob
19-09-2014, 18:11
I use these self adhesive leds around the back perimeter of my telly
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-New-SMD-5050-5M-10M-Waterproof-Cool-White-6000-6500K-Led-Strip-Light-IP65-/231178785218?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Lamps&var=&hash=item35d35451c2
Loads available on the Bay and they can be trimmed to size.

Dalek Supreme D L
19-09-2014, 18:40
As I recall this was something Philips introduced and a few others include but I personalty think its a gimmick and serves no real purpose. I have found it distracting when I have seen it and I don't feel there is any need for it.

My advice save your money and buy a few blu rays.



Regards Neil

Gazjam
19-09-2014, 19:11
Cheers Andy,
Thinking of pulling the trigger on 2 sets of these:
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/Ideal-Lume.htm#panelight

In your setup, do you have a dimmer wired in?
Appreciate some specifics mate on how youve got it all wired up?

I've seen Bias lighting done properly Neil and to me it improved the picture no end, really darkened the blacks and made everything pop, but not in an unnatural way.
Besides, my lounge is quite dark when watching films and can get a bit of eye strain if Im enjoying a numbuttathon movie session. :)

Dalek Supreme D L
19-09-2014, 19:27
Cheers Andy,
Thinking of pulling the trigger on 2 sets of these:
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/Ideal-Lume.htm#panelight

In your setup, do you have a dimmer wired in?
Appreciate some specifics mate on how youve got it all wired up?

I've seen Bias lighting done properly Neil and to me it improved the picture no end, really darkened the blacks and made everything pop, but not in an unnatural way.
Besides, my lounge is quite dark when watching films and can get a bit of eye strain if Im enjoying a numbuttathon movie session. :)

I concede Gary I may have not seen it done right.


Regards Neil

DarrenHW
19-09-2014, 19:28
Maybe a bit on the bright side (125W), will let you know how it works out.

13207

Techno Commander
19-09-2014, 21:37
As I recall this was something Philips introduced and a few others include but I personalty think its a gimmick and serves no real purpose. I have found it distracting when I have seen it and I don't feel there is any need for it.

Regards Neil

Agreed. I guess there is a reason cinemas are dark and lack ambient lighting around the screen. :)

DarrenHW
20-09-2014, 06:52
First thing to report is that this lamp is way too bright, I'd usually have the lights dimmed to a lower level than the lamp was outputting, even so it was an enjoyable way to watch a film. I have 2 rentals to watch this weekend Riddick and 2 Guns (will be a first watch for both), I chose Riddick as it was a safe bet there would be lots of dark scenes and I wanted to know how this would improve black levels.

Findings:

It is certainly a less distracting way to watch a film, the TV being back-lit really focused my attention on the screen, even during the painfully slow first 30 minutes of the Directors Cut of Riddick.

Not a hint of eye strain, as stated above I usually have the lights on as I experience some eye strain without.

No (perceivable) screen reflection, I have a Samsung with a gloss screen and can quite often see room reflections in very dark scenes.

Black levels increased, I was quite happy with my black levels but found I could make out a lot more detail.

I can't really comment on any improvement in colour perception as Riddick doesn't really have any natural colours and it's not a film I'm familiar with. Skin tones did appear more natural and all colours did seem more vivid.

All in all an enjoyable experiment, I do have more lamps but they'll take more that 2 minutes of setup time, hopefully I'll have time when I get home tonight to setup a T8 before tonight's feature, 2 Guns, gives a whole new meaning to tube rolling!
On a side note, (and I know I'm either preaching to the choir or about to start a fearsome debate :sofa:) earlier in the week I swapped my stock figure of 8 mains lead for an aftermarket one with approximately (multistrand) 2.5mm cores, this yielded a massive improvement in picture quality even when plugged into a 4 way mains block.

Gazjam
20-09-2014, 08:09
Agreed. I guess there is a reason cinemas are dark and lack ambient lighting around the screen. :)

...and those same films are "mastered" (like vinyl LPs?) in movie studio editing suites using backlit displays, for colour accuracy and picture quality! ;)

My take on it that its like mastering for vinyl and playing it back at home...
At the Studio the movies are created to be as the director intended in "mastering suites", similar as mastering for vinyl.
At home, I'd reckon the better the reproduction equipment you have the closer you get to that original recording or movie, just as the Director intended.
Just like our hifi!

I reckon if backlighting can get you closer to that original vision then its a good upgrade if you enjoy your movies.

Some good info here on the advantages and theory:
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm

Gazjam
20-09-2014, 08:13
First thing to report is that this lamp is way too bright, I'd usually have the lights dimmed to a lower level than the lamp was outputting, even so it was an enjoyable way to watch a film. I have 2 rentals to watch this weekend Riddick and 2 Guns (will be a first watch for both), I chose Riddick as it was a safe bet there would be lots of dark scenes and I wanted to know how this would improve black levels.

Findings:

It is certainly a less distracting way to watch a film, the TV being back-lit really focused my attention on the screen, even during the painfully slow first 30 minutes of the Directors Cut of Riddick.

Not a hint of eye strain, as stated above I usually have the lights on as I experience some eye strain without.

No (perceivable) screen reflection, I have a Samsung with a gloss screen and can quite often see room reflections in very dark scenes.

Black levels increased, I was quite happy with my black levels but found I could make out a lot more detail.

I can't really comment on any improvement in colour perception as Riddick doesn't really have any natural colours and it's not a film I'm familiar with. Skin tones did appear more natural and all colours did seem more vivid.

All in all an enjoyable experiment, I do have more lamps but they'll take more that 2 minutes of setup time, hopefully I'll have time when I get home tonight to setup a T8 before tonight's feature, 2 Guns, gives a whole new meaning to tube rolling!
On a side note, (and I know I'm either preaching to the choir or about to start a fearsome debate :sofa:) earlier in the week I swapped my stock figure of 8 mains lead for an aftermarket one with approximately (multistrand) 2.5mm cores, this yielded a massive improvement in picture quality even when plugged into a 4 way mains block.

In my experience Darren taking care of the power that feeds your equipment can make a helluva improvement. :thumbsup:

spendorman
20-09-2014, 12:38
As I recall this was something Philips introduced and a few others include but I personalty think its a gimmick and serves no real purpose. I have found it distracting when I have seen it and I don't feel there is any need for it.

My advice save your money and buy a few blu rays.



Regards Neil


I thought it was a gimmick until we inherited a Philips TV "with Ambilight" It's great, contributes to the viewing experience, and seems to reduce eyestrain.

Our set is much older than this one, but still very good:

http://youtu.be/Bzc3Y4jY_Y4

Gazjam
05-10-2014, 08:28
Bias lightning arrived from the States.
40 customs charge...ouch!

Post pics and opinion here when its set up.

DarrenHW
05-10-2014, 09:18
:popcorn:

What did you go for, the Panel Light?

I didn't have as many tubes as I thought and what I did have where way outside of the recommended colour temperature. I need 6500K for my fish tank project so will order a few of different wattage's / lumens to try out. I did find that TV distance from wall, light distance from TV / wall and light placement affected the picture quality, I'm thinking of using 2 tubes as I have experienced off axis issues from using just 1.

Gazjam
05-10-2014, 11:57
Hi Darren,
Went for two of the Panel Light kits, 4 lamps in all. 6500K lamps, spot on colour wise.
My TV is just a few inches from the back wall, so this was the one to get.
Wanted even lighting on the back wall and the Company advised that a light on each edge of the TV would give the best effect.
Two would get the bias lighting effect they said, but 4 would be aesthetically better.

Hopefully get them installed this week, will post pics.

Adjust brightness by a rotating "sleeve" that blocks off as much light as you need.
Just twist to adjust, pretty clever.



:popcorn:

What did you go for, the Panel Light?

I didn't have as many tubes as I thought and what I did have where way outside of the recommended colour temperature. I need 6500K for my fish tank project so will order a few of different wattage's / lumens to try out. I did find that TV distance from wall, light distance from TV / wall and light placement affected the picture quality, I'm thinking of using 2 tubes as I have experienced off axis issues from using just 1.

DarrenHW
05-10-2014, 13:59
Having 4 lights sounds like a good way to go, with rotating sleeves, simpology at it's best! Just a kicker about HMRC!

Look forward to your pics and findings.

DarrenHW
17-10-2014, 09:03
How you getting on with this?

Gazjam
17-10-2014, 20:45
Not had the time to set it up yet Darren,
the 60" plasma's a heavy bugger and I need to take it off the wall to install it all.

Extra pair of hands being organised for next week, pics and thoughts to come. :)

struth
17-10-2014, 23:17
Hoping to see this next week mate:D

Gazjam
18-10-2014, 09:36
Hope to see you there! :)

Gazjam
23-10-2014, 21:54
Got the bias lighting installed last night...
it's good, real good.
It does exactly what they say it does.

Post pics and a full write up soon.

brian2957
23-10-2014, 22:32
Aye see it Saturday mate :)

struth
23-10-2014, 22:37
me too....although need to know where:lol:

brian2957
23-10-2014, 22:49
Aye that would be good Grant . Just follow the light mate :lol:

struth
23-10-2014, 22:50
:lolsign:

Gazjam
23-11-2014, 10:29
Right, enough faffing about time for an update. :)
Apologies for less than brilliant phone pictures...

Backlighting setup installed, it's good, real good. It does exactly what they say it does.
Why does it work? All the theory is here:
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/blb.htm

Did my research and ordered the Kit from from a company called CinemaQuest in the States.
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/customhome.htm
Great email response to my (dumb) questions and advised on the right kit for my setup.
Was told that getting things like colour temperature, luminance levels etc was absolutely worth getting spot on.
For flat panel TVs close to the wall they suggested their "IdealLume Panel Light kit"
http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/Ideal-Lume.htm#panelight

This comes with two 6500k fluorescent tubes and all the wiring you need to get it working.
I was advised that this would get the backlighing benefit, but for best aesthetic effect a light on each edge of the TV would be best, so ordered two kits, four tubes in all.

Interesting few hours installing it all, let me tell you about it...

Two of these:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_110847.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_110847.jpg.html)

What you get:
Instructions, two lamps, all the wiring you need and various bits 'n bobs to install them. Wall mount, cable ties and double sided tape. Theres not a lot of weight in the tubes, so tape is do-able, though the instructions advise against using tape with Samsung TVs because of the type of black paint they use, and my TV was...yup, a Samsung.
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/IMG_20141023_110951.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/IMG_20141023_110951.jpg.html)

The boy was over to help me set it up, here he's (helpfully) using his foot for scale once I plugged the lamps in to test them.
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_180748676.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_180748676.jpg.html)

OK, so whats the best way to install them behind the telly?
As a "fit and forget" kinda guy I didn't want to have to worry about them falling off, so decided to hook cable ties into the ventilation slots in the back of the TV and secure the lamps that way.
Easy peasy right? Just push cable tie through a hole, and hook it round to come out the hole beside it?
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_192945383.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_192945383.jpg.html)

Nope! The slots on the back the TV are angled so bit of a nightmare to do it easily. Just my luck...
Well, cable ties were the way to go, fit 'n forget and all that, so I soldiered on. Did I lose 5 hours of my life trying to feed cable ties through..?
No, I unscrewed the back panel off my plasma and fitted them when it was off! :mental:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_133345.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_133345.jpg.html)
Not as scary as it looks, had some "plasma buzz" on my last telly and I removed the back panel and tightened up all the circuit boards which fixed it. When I had the panel off the big one, I took the opportunity to tighten everything up.

Hooking lamps up to the back of the TV:
Double cable ties looped through ventilation holes.
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_220540573.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_220540573.jpg.html)
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_225740312.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_225740312.jpg.html)

All installed and working, ready to put TV back on wall:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_225810878.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141022_225810878.jpg.html)

It works!
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_243624840.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_243624840.jpg.html)

Naa, forget that it REALLY works, a much improved picture.
Crisper image, colours were better and blacks were now jet black but you could still make out all subtle detail.
Watched same clip with and without lighting on and it was night and day better.

Wiring it all up:
Each lamp has a male and female Fig-8 power socket so its easy to "daisy-chain" them together. Each has a power on/off switch.
I have them all connected together with all power switches on, plugged in to my Belkin PF30 conditioner which has switchable sockets. Sitting down to watch a movie I just press a button on the front of the Belkin and the lighting comes on. Simples.

Some more pics then some practical considerations based on my own experience that might be useful for anyone going down this road.
Its Movie night!
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_243822835.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_243822835.jpg.html)
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_011823928.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_011823928.jpg.html)
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_244411886.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_244411886.jpg.html)
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_244328796.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/Bias%20Lighting/IMG_20141023_244328796.jpg.html)

So, worth the effort and expense then?
Absolutely without a doubt.

I felt going in to this I wanted to to it once and do it right...forget about the hassle of setting it up and just enjoy it.
Maybe not the cheapest way to do it I guess, but worth it for me.
Having discussed it with the guys over at CinemaQuest over email, they say the most important factor is getting as close to 6500K colour temperature as you can, some of the LED striplights you can get on Ebay (which I initially looked at?) were quite a bit off. AV forums are a good source of info for what works and what doesn't and I found them full of great information.
Good bunch of links here:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=av+forums+bias+lighing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=urJxVIIu1YBUjfmA4AQ#q=avforums+bias+lighting+si te:www.avforums.com&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb

So I reckon if your TV sits on a stand...
It would be better to stick an Ikea lamp(say) behind it with a true 6500K daylight bulb than get LED striplights from Ebay or whatever that you don't know the colour temp of around 4 edges of your TV.

If its on the wall...
Source some GOOD led striplights as close to 6500K as you can, preferably with a dimmer so you can set the ideal backlighting level for your setup.
10% is the recommended amount and it DOES make a difference to image quality.
You'll know it when you hit the sweet spot.

So absolutely worth it and I'd go further to say that if you enjoy your TV and have invested in a big telly your really missing a trick not trying out some kind of Bias lighting.

My take on it that its like mastering for vinyl and playing it back at home?
At the Studio the movies are created to be as the director intended in "mastering suites", using backlit displays, for colour accuracy and picture quality, similar as mastering for vinyl. Colour grading is a big part of cinematography and the overall film experience.
At home, just as with our hifi's, I reckon the better the reproduction equipment you have the closer you get to that original recording or movie, just as the Director or musician intended.

I reckon if backlighting can get you closer to that original vision then its a great upgrade.

Ali Tait
23-11-2014, 11:10
Yep, seen this and it really does improve the picture markedly, well worth it if you've invested in a nice telly.

DarrenHW
23-11-2014, 12:02
Nice write up Gary :thumbsup:. Your bias lighting looks great in the photo's, I've not had time to investigate lighting any further since my last post however I now have an Oppo 105D and have been offered a deal on an Audiolab 8200X7 that the dealer should be taking as p/x in a couple of weeks which will enable me to use the Oppo as a pre amp, which I'm really looking forward too.

You've suggested using LED strip lights for wall mounting, I'm still working my way through the links you've provided (thank you), so apologies if I just haven't read far enough yet but so far the only reference I've seen to these is either the Antec (which I'm not really interested in) and Apollo lighting which I'm struggling to find, do you have any recommendations?

Gazjam
23-11-2014, 12:16
Hi Darren,
good shout on the Oppo, love mine.

If you've went for a 105D then is it fair to say that movies are obviously important part of your setup?
If so, I wouldn't go for LED striplights but the same 6500K lamps I've got.
Its worth it to show off your Oppo to its best imo.

DarrenHW
23-11-2014, 13:00
Yes, movies are an important part of my system. When I joined AoS last October my system was an Onkyo TX-SR607, Q Acoustics 1000i 5.1, with a Windows 7 Media Centre for music. I have since got into vinyl (I grew up with CD) but came into this only really with (a little) knowledge of home cinema. I've spent what little free time I've had over the last year on vinyl / speakers / stereo amps etc and decided it was time to turn my attention back to home cinema and was going to buy the Oppo 103 until I was introduced to the 105. I went for it essentially for the DAC. With this I've been able to streamline FBA as I can just plug a USB HDD with FLAC files on it into the Oppo and navigate either using the TV or iPhone. The interface is a bit primitive to say the least but SQ wise I'm happy (although I have nothing in the same price league to compare it too) when using it as a Pre to a stereo power amp.

I agree with you about the lighting, I'm just being a cheap prick but that's because I have the urge to replace my TV, it's a Samsung UE55D6530 and whilst 55" was big when I bought it back in 2011 I really would like something much BIGGER! This would mean even more lighting and even more expense and as I'd really like a curved TV I'm not sure how Cinema Quest lighting could be incorporated? At this stage I'm just really looking for something to play with and a starting point for Bias lighting.

struth
23-11-2014, 15:31
quite liked the effect it gave re the blacks and if you have a large screen and like watching modern movies at night i would say it is worth the upgrade.

Gazjam
23-11-2014, 17:36
No LED reccy's Darren, havent looked into it that much,
I would say if you find something close to 6500K make sure its got a dimmer switch...its said 10% of maximum brightness is the best for backlighting and in my experience is absolutely correct.
Every little thing makes a difference.

Curved screens?
Shouldn't be a problem for the lamps like I have?
Just tie the cable ties a bit looser, the lamps will sit across the radius of the curved screen no problem I'd have thought?

Dont be a cheap prick :) , spend the money once and do it right!

Gazjam
23-11-2014, 17:37
quite liked the effect it gave re the blacks and if you have a large screen and like watching modern movies at night i would say it is worth the upgrade.

Never got the chance Grant to stick on Casablanca... ooh, its nice. :)

struth
23-11-2014, 19:44
Never got the chance Grant to stick on Casablanca... ooh, its nice. :)



Bet it is. I have the cleaned up Blu-ray and it looks great.. in fact I think I'll watch it once Insurrection is finished.