Classical music for people that (think they) don't like classical music

[Jeremy Marchant]

My theory is that a lot of people who would like classical music are put off by lack of knowledge, and a sort of fear of the unknown

Firstly, the term ‘classical music’ is about as meaningful as ‘world music’. The term ‘classical music’ actually means Haydn, Mozart, early Beethoven and their contemporaries – music written in a few decades. That is as specific as ‘country and western’. But, the way it is now used, frankly the term really only seems to mean ‘music I think I don’t like’ (as opposed to music I know I don’t like, like reggae).

Secondly, there’s a hell of a lot of it. People have been at it for 800 years. Well, you don’t need to know it all, instantly. I am going to suggest an easy way in.

Thirdly, it’s boring. Well, since it doesn’t bore everyone, that feeling of boredom must be in the listener, not some mysterious attribute of the music itself. The remedy for that is to stay curious. Be interested in it. Give yourself permission not to like, or want to hear that piece again. Certainly, don’t expect it to be ‘beautiful’, though some of it is.

So, my way in is to go for music written since 1900. And, on the whole stick to orchestral music. Here are ten C20 composers whose orchestral music is worth exploring. Works cited are recommendations, not the composers’ entire output.

Bartók

Much influenced by the inflections of his native Hungarian folk music, Bartók’s music is rhythmic and dynamic. He was an excellent pianist and there are three great piano concertos, as well as two violin concertos, viola concerto, concerto for orchestra, two ballets, of which The miraculous mandarin is startling and deeply psychological, as is his only opera, the short Bluebeard’s castle (this is an opera for people who don’t like opera – it is a continuous stream of melody for an hour, but it’s dark, if brilliantly conceived).

Mahler

He started before 1900: the works form 1900 on are the symphonies 5-10, Kindertotenlieder, Rückertlieder, Das Lied von der Erde (not many people realise that Mahler only wrote 17 works in his entire life). If you insist (!) do explore the earlier works.

Nielsen

Danish master. Wrote six symphonies which, like those of Sibelius, show tremendous development as he matured (maybe try 4 first). Violin, flute and clarinet concertos, smaller pieces for orchestra. A very individual tone of voice: fresh, like mountain air; energetic and vigorous, none of yer Straussian lounging about.

Prokofiev

Prokofiev wrote symphonies too, but he was really a man of the stage – some of his symphonies are reworked stage music, though symphonies 5 and 6 are great works. Two great violin concertos. But it is the stage works which really show Prokofiev in his element: Romeo and Juliet, Cinderella. All worth exploring.

Ravel

Not prolific, but his ballet Daphnis et Chloé is fantastic (pass by the suites – go for the whole thing), then there’s Mother goose, Shéhérazade, Rapsodie espagnole, two piano concertos, two fantastic brief operas - L’enfant et les sortilèges and L’heure espagnole (he had a thing about Spain). He also had a dark side which adds interest to the superb orchestration and general Gallic charm. Let us draw a veil over the Bolero.

Shostakovich

A complex character – apparently introverted, but capable of writing big epic scores as well as reflecting his introversion in his music. There’s a strong vein of wit and drollery in his music, too. Altogether a complex, contradictory mix which is very interesting. Immediately obvious works include symphonies 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 – perhaps go for 5 first. He was also a tool of the soviet system and, of necessity, some of his music is propagandist which is why I have put some other symphonies in a second ‘political’ division. Then there are concertos for violin, cello, piano. Film music even.

Sibelius

The great Finnish composer. He started out like a more disciplined Tchaikovsky, without the selfpity (and not being Russian), and gradually evolved to produce lithe athletic masterpieces. Seven symphonies (try 2 and 5 first perhaps), a violin concerto, an early unnumbered choral symphony called Kullervo and in particular, a whole series of short ‘tone poems’ based on stories form myth and legend which he wrote throughout his life. The four Lemminkainen Legends are particularly exciting.

Strauss

Strauss was also active before 1900, and I will cheat and go back five years to include his great symphonic poems, Till Eulenspiegel and Don Quixote. He wrote ten of these, including Also sprach Zarathustra, whose first 3 minutes are without doubt his best known writing! Also lots of good songs with orchestra, including Four last songs, and other works produced towards the end of his life (Metamorphosen, two indulgently long wind serenades. oboe concerto, horn concerto). If you’re brave, lots of operas, from the bloodcurdling Salome to the charming Ariadne auf Naxos.

Stravinsky

Well, there are lots of Stravinskys. In particular go for the big ballets (Firebird, Rite of spring, Petrushka), Les noces [The wedding] – very earthy and Russian, the neo-classical works (symphony in C, Pulcinella, Apollo, Dumbarton Oaks, etc). Possibly the stuff written after 1954 is hard going, but Agon is attractive enough.

Tippett

Great English composer, currently going through the traditional post-death period of neglect. A wonderfully generous and humane man which shows in his music. Maybe start with the Concerto for double string orchestra, the Fantasia concertante on a theme of Corelli (which sounds dry but is actually energetic and engaging reaching an ecstatic climax) and the oratorio A child of our time. Move on to the piano concerto and, if you’re warming to the man by this time, go for the opera The midsummer marriage. These last two are of the period of the Corelli work and they all share a fantastic combination of energy and ecstasy. Then there are four symphonies, some concertos and much else. The later operas can perhaps wait.
---
That’s all for now.

[Beechwoods]

I love the modernists - the 'minimalists' like Steve Reich, John Adams, Philip Glass and (in small doses) Michael Nyman (his stuff all sounds too samey!) - there's something about what they do with an orchestra that speaks to me in a way that the earlier composers don't. I figure it's down to their use of rhythm and (obviously) repetition that has more in common with later movements, in particular dance music and electronica, that makes it more easily accessible.

Like you say the term 'classical' is near useless - the two analogies you make of 'world' music and country and western are spot on - as a fan of both I know exactly what you mean about different strands being unfairly 'lumped' under a lazy genre heading. This need to classify music into genre pigeonholes closes off whole swathes of music to so many people. Vive la variation!

It seems from your introduction that you're not drawn to the composers I mention above - is this because you don't see them as part of the 'classical' tradition?

If I were to recommend 5 records to whet the appetite of people who don't like 'classical music' I'd have to say:

Steve Reich - Music For 18 Musicians
John Adams - Shaker Loops
Philip Glass - Glassworks (or Dancepieces)
Steve Reich - Six Marimbas (or Six Pianos)
Steve Reich - City Life

This sends chills down my spine every time I hear it...

CHVMVDhC-UA

[alb]

Jeremy.
I am one of those who don't really like "classical" music.
I find that orchestral works generally sound disappointingly unrealistic.
Smaller scale stuff with just a few instruments often seem to make more sense.
I have been to the occasional concert in the past and found them quite entertaining. However, i have yet to hear any system do justice to this type of music. The same applies to brass bands IMHO.

At least with other genres, the brain can be fooled into thinking that instruments sound quite convincing.

Maybe you could post a list of well recorded classical stuff, to help us avoid the flat and undynamic recordings.:)

[Jason P]

I to tally agree with you Jeremy, for the uninitiated (amongst whom I count myself) classical music is a minefield.

One nice thing about classical, being a vinyl junkie - you can get very cheap classical LPs in most charidee shops. I've taken to buying any in decent condition (with a self-imposed price cap of £1 if they're unknown to me), getting to know performers/orchestras/conductors who are 'worth a punt'. I figure that if I don't like it, I can either give it back (think of it as a donation) or pass them on to friends.

I've also found the advice of a good friend who's a classical afficionado worth it's weight in gold... but you have to 'kiss a few frogs' on the way to finding out what works for you...

Jason

[Tom472]

Excellent stuff - I heartily agree, the first time I had a go at "classical" music I dived straight into stuff I had heard of (Mozart, Beethoven, etc.) and didn't much like it.

Think I will now be trying out some of those composers on your list (never tried Bartok).

May I also suggest Rachmaninov as an "easy way in". I challenge anyone not to like his piano preludes played in anger. My girlfriend sometimes playes these on her piano at home - fantastic!

Cheers
Tom

[Jeremy Marchant]

It seems from your introduction that you're not drawn to the composers I mention above - is this because you don't see them as part of the 'classical' tradition?

On the contrary! I was coming to them. It is the sort of music, though, which stretches the definition of classical beyond any meaningful limit, in my view.

I have made an arrangement for soloists, choir and orchestra of Glass's Songs from liquid days, and enjoyed meeting Mr Glass and hearing him tell me to my face that he approved of the arrangement (it was the occasion of his 60th birthday concert in London, when I was in the choir singing act 2 of Satyagraha). It's on CD, but modesty naturally prevents me from recommending it (or even mentioning it), though keen Glasslovers might find it interesting to compare my version with the original.

Excellent suggestions, if I may say. But I would add:

John Adams - Harmonium for chorus and orchestra. I'd argue it's his best ever piece (though Shaker loops is pretty good, Harmonium gets you by the emotions big time). (Sung that one, too!)

Philip Glass - Koyaanisqatsi. Seminal work. Get the Nonesuch soundtrack, not the earlier one. Better, get the DVD: it's 80 mins of pure Glass - no speech whatever. The grid, approximately the third quarter, is exhilarating and then some.


May I also suggest Rachmaninov as an "easy way in".
Agreed, I was trying to keep a geographical balance and stick to ten composers. Personal favourite is the Symphonic dances, then the second symphony - all yearning and churning.

[DaveK]

I love the modernists - the 'minimalists' like Steve Reich, John Adams, Philip Glass and (in small doses) Michael Nyman (his stuff all sounds too samey!) - there's something about what they do with an orchestra that speaks to me in a way that the earlier composers don't. I figure it's down to their use of rhythm and (obviously) repetition that has more in common with later movements, in particular dance music and electronica, that makes it more easily accessible.

Like you say the term 'classical' is near useless - the two analogies you make of 'world' music and country and western are spot on - as a fan of both I know exactly what you mean about different strands being unfairly 'lumped' under a lazy genre heading. This need to classify music into genre pigeonholes closes off whole swathes of music to so many people. Vive la variation!

It seems from your introduction that you're not drawn to the composers I mention above - is this because you don't see them as part of the 'classical' tradition?

If I were to recommend 5 records to whet the appetite of people who don't like 'classical music' I'd have to say:

Steve Reich - Music For 18 Musicians - This sends chills down my spine every time I hear it...
John Adams - Shaker Loops
Philip Glass - Glassworks (or Dancepieces)
Steve Reich - Six Marimbas (or Six Pianos)
Steve Reich - City Life


Attn. Nick (of the Beechwoods variety),
Don't know why it took me so long but tonight I pressed the 'Play' button on the YouTube clip - great, innit? I could certainly listen to a bit more of that - must look it out next time I'm in town or maybe on Amazon's web page.
Thanks for the pointer.
Cheers,

[Joe]

This is good stuff. I got into classical music via the safe stuff (Mozart, Haydn, Chopin) and am slowly extending my tastes. As Jeremy said in another thread, for non-fans, 20th century classical music may actually be a better way in than the 'standard' repertoire. I'm personally very fond of Bartok's String Quartets, my LP of which, with the Fine Arts Quartet, was bought for next to nothing from TonyL at PFM*.

*advert.

[Jeremy Marchant]

Jeremy.
I am one of those who don't really like "classical" music.
I find that orchestral works generally sound disappointingly unrealistic.
... However, i have yet to hear any system do justice to this type of music. The same applies to brass bands IMHO.

At least with other genres, the brain can be fooled into thinking that instruments sound quite convincing.

Maybe you could post a list of well recorded classical stuff, to help us avoid the flat and undynamic recordings.:)

Do you mean CDs of orchestral works sound unrealistic? I agree. Even with quite a good system, I find that I can sometimes think 'God, this sounds awful!' However, I do find I can easily suspend my disbelief, even though I am not a great concertgoer and therefore don't have regular fixes of reality to recalibrate my ear/brain system.

I've been lucky enough to hear some systems which do do justice to the recordings - one high end Naim system with Adam Tensor Betas did the job nicely, thank you.

When you ask for a list of well recorded stuff, I'd say that probably 50% of all recordings ever made were good soundwise, or better. The other 50% offend usually because they've crassly engineered in one way or another.

So, when you say you want to avoid flat and undynamic recordings I infer that's how you experience some/many classical orchestral recordings. Or is it the music, to your ears, that is flat and undynamic? I can't say it's my experience, but that's not to gainsay the validity of yours, naturally. I've used a Linn/Naim system, of one sort or another, for 30 years and, it's true, it isn't shy about coming forward - maybe that colours my perception of recordings.

I don't know where to start in terms of well recorded orchestral CDs, because I would argue there are so many. However, if you want something outrageously not flat and not undynamic, try Varese's Arcana. It's on a cheap 2CD set of the complete surviving music of Varese (conducted by Riccardo Chailly on Decca). The recording (I think) is excellent as is the performance. After an early performance of Arcana, the press wrote "so unendurable to many of the listeners that they fled".

[The Grand Wazoo]

try Varese's Arcana. It's on a cheap 2CD set of the complete surviving music of Varese (conducted by Riccardo Chailly on Decca). The recording (I think) is excellent as is the performance. After an early performance of Arcana, the press wrote "so unendurable to many of the listeners that they fled".

I was listening to Arcana on Saturday!! Naxos: Varese Orchestral Works Vol.1
Didn't feel the need to flee, though!

[DaveK]

Mainly to Jeremy,
Hi, Just been out to invest in some of your recommendations. Have listened to the mfp Arvo Part and regret to advise I couldn't 'get into it'. Ive heard Spiege im Spiegel of course many times - Classic FM gave it lots of airings I seem to remember about a year or two ago - liked it then and like it now but ...... the remainder ...... not for me I'm afraid. I guess I'm a bit of a melody fan and I couldn't hear any. Not blaming the music or the recording, just not to my taste. I know nothing about music and how it's written, I can't begin to conceive what goes on in the composer's mind as he translates his thoughts into a series of 'tadpoles' spread across 5 parallel lines, but I do 'know' (do I ?) that it has to follow some kind of 'mathematical' rules of balance, and to me there was no balance - I know what I mean, I hope you do :) .
Am now listening to Sibelius 2nd - much more enjoyable - there's a sort of melody (theme may be a more accurate word) and balance (IMO) and I suspect that I will benefit from hearing it again (can't say the same about Arvo !). It is quite ' Finlandiaesque' in places and nontheless enjoyable for that. His 5th is just starting and, so far, it sounds encouraging.
Only Shostakovich's Symphony No. 5 and Jazz Suite and Stravinsky's Firebird and Rite of Spring to go :lolsign: . I'll keep you posted.
Cheers,

[Jeremy Marchant]

People could do a lot worse than this EMI box set:
"20th CENTURY MASTERPIECES 100 Years of Classical Music. Works by Rachmaninov, Debussy, Delius, Mahler, Schoenberg etc. EMI Classics 16cds" for £27.

I counted 52 different composers. so there's something for everyone. It includes works that I've recommended, but also, essentially, runs right up to the end of the century (which I haven't done (yet))

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/SO_EMI_Box_Sets/2175002.htm

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Can anyone recomend anywhere that i could download any of this music in as higher resolution as possible?

this is a fantastic idea for a post! i have frequantly though of asking this question but have been so overwhelmed by "classical music" that i didnt even know where to start with the question
"can anyone recomend any clasical music i might like" didnt seem to cut it

[Simon P]

I really appreciate seeing this thread about classical - thank you.

I'm really quite ignorant about classical music, and I want to learn more. I have to agree that it just like any type of music, in that it is a bit of a minefield if it's not your area of expertise, but I'm sure that there is plenty that I could appreciate.

I normally listen to a fairly broad spectrum of electronic music, some jazz and funk. I will definitely be checking out some of the recommendations above.

There was a free Arabesque CD that came with HiFi+ this month that I've been enjoying. I've loved hearing Saint Saens - Dans Macabre on it, something I've not heard since my schooldays. It has really impressed on me the dynamic swings my system is capable of. The build and crescendos were so impressive that I nearly fell off my chair the first time I played it. There are a couple of Debussy pieces on there as well that made me realise I need to find out more about his work.

I've also recently heard some of Arvo Part's work and realise I need to find out more - any recommendatios as to where to start with him would be very much appreciated.

On a slighly related tip I've recently discovered Max Richter's "post-classical" work which I really like. I only found out about him as he has worked with electronic producers the Future Sound of London. I can strongly recommend giving The Blue Notebooks a try. Apparently the concept of this album is that it's a soundtrack to a film that hasn't been made. One of his tracks 'On the Nature of Daylight' has become one of my favourite pieces of music this year. If you find that you enjoy this album, it's also worth giving 'From The Art of Mirrors' a listen.

I hope talking about post-classical han't deviated too far from the original thread.

Simon

[Gints]

What about Vivaldi Four Seasons? Very nice music itself, melodic, emotional, not complicated. Actually for me it all was down to accident, but that music can open a window quite a bit for everyone, I think.

Also live concerts is good way for start. It is great experience with that sound and the fact that you can see orchestra and all that instruments when they playing. Personally, I was just on few concerts and I was very impressed with Berlioz Symphony Fantastique.

Visualisations can do a great job as well. Ballet Yellow Tango was my discovery of Piazzola music, Juliet and Romeo ballet also impressed me.

And what about some new arrangements. For example, Kazu Matsui albums Tribal Mozart and Tribal Shubert, not a big orchestra and there are some modern instruments, but in very delicate way. They also are good records for nice audio systems, there is so much small nuance in music, I never bored listening them again and again.

That was may way into classical music and that maybe can give some idea how to help somebody to make their own opinion about it. I cannot say that I am a big fan but definitely open to that kind of music.

[DaveK]

Hi Guys,
Anyone interested in trying Classical music without risking wasting lots of money if they don't like it may be interested in the following 2 links: -

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/pages/search/searchresults.asp?sFilter1=EMIbestof0809

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/search/Special%20Offers/SO_EMI_Box_Sets/EMIbox0809/ (Product Code: 2681322)

I suspect that the second link (note the seperate Product Code) may be the same disc set as Jeremy recommends above but appears to be much cheaper.
Others looking for cheaper copies of muscic they like, or think they might like, may also find the links useful.
Good hunting,

[DaveK]

I've also recently heard some of Arvo Part's work and realise I need to find out more - any recommendatios as to where to start with him would be very much appreciated.

Simon

Hi Simon,
I have a CD copy of Arvo Part's Fratres, Tabula rasa, Spiegel im Spiegel, Summa, Festina lente and Cantus which I have listened to once and wasn't very impressed with. If you want to borrow it for a while, PM me with your address and I'll stick it in the post for you.
Dave.

[Jeremy Marchant]

Can anyone recomend anywhere that i could download any of this music in as higher resolution as possible?

If you mean better than CD quality, unfortunately there's very little available. The Linn Records site includes not only their own often excellent records in 'studio master' quality, but also they're trying out running other labels' stuff, where presumably the other labels don't want to get into the technical hassle of offering the service. There's an excellent Mahler 4 on there conducted by Ivan Fischer, for example.

Gimell Records do it, too, but their repertoire is exclusively ancient music which you might a bit hard going. Try the Allegri Miserere for starters. Should be stunning!

Having heard a number of demos of downloaded files of different specs of the same recording (including at Linn in Glasgow) I am saddened by how little of 'studio master' quality is available: the best is amazing. 'Comfort ye' from Linn's recording of Handel's Messiah is breathtaking at SM quality level.

[Jeremy Marchant]

Hi Simon,
I have a CD copy of Arvo Part's Fratres, Tabula rasa, Spiegel im Spiegel, Summa, Festina lente and Cantus which I have listened to once and wasn't very impressed with.
His music is very much a matter of taste. He treads a fine line between banality ans inspiration and I wouldn't blame anyone deciding it was banality for them! But that is a good CD to start with.

Also try John Tavener (not to be confused with the Elizabethan John Taverner) for more of what is disrespectfully called Holy Minimalism.

[Jeremy Marchant]

What about Vivaldi Four Seasons? Very nice music itself, melodic, emotional, not complicated.
It's good stuff. And if you like that style, there's yards more of it! The four seasons are just the first four of 12 concertos with the title The contest between harmony and invention; then there are 12 more called La stravaganza (a favourite of mine); 12 more called La cetra. And more... And then there are concerti by Corelli.

The German style is more solid than the Italians above, but apart from JS Bach (Brandenburgs, harpsichord concertos, violin concertos), there are wonderful concertos by Handel (six op3 and, especially, the 12 op6).

Go for English Concert conducted by Trevor Pinnock in this repertoire and you won't go wrong.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

thats a good enough answer for me i have been on the linn site in a bid to make use of the ability of my majik ds but didnt knoiw where to start


If you mean better than CD quality, unfortunately there's very little available. The Linn Records site includes not only their own often excellent records in 'studio master' quality, but also they're trying out running other labels' stuff, where presumably the other labels don't want to get into the technical hassle of offering the service. There's an excellent Mahler 4 on there conducted by Ivan Fischer, for example.

Gimell Records do it, too, but their repertoire is exclusively ancient music which you might a bit hard going. Try the Allegri Miserere for starters. Should be stunning!

Having heard a number of demos of downloaded files of different specs of the same recording (including at Linn in Glasgow) I am saddened by how little of 'studio master' quality is available: the best is amazing. 'Comfort ye' from Linn's recording of Handel's Messiah is breathtaking at SM quality level.

[Gints]

Can anyone recomend anywhere that i could download any of this music in as higher resolution as possible?


there you can get couple samples http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

[Jeremy Marchant]

I really appreciate seeing this thread about classical - thank you.

I aim to please


I've also recently heard some of Arvo Part's work and realise I need to find out more ...

Try these

(you will be redirected to the YT site to play the following from there)
e348n660zrA

RYypmgIYOVQ

This is a very good performance
NDpUyvELcx8

[Simon P]

Jeremy,

Thanks very much for posting the three Arvo Part links, I appreciate it.
I enjoyed the first two pieces - especially Fratres. I will be adding them to my "to buy" list for the future.

I'm afraid the last piece wasn't to my taste; I struggle to listen to Choral music.

I've placed an order for the 20th Century Masterpieces as recommended - that's incredibly good value, and there were some things on there that even I was able to recognise. I also ran the listing by my Mum, who's more of an opera fan, but knows her classical fairly well. It got her full approval. When she read through the list, there were a lot of "ooh,ahh,wonderful, beautiful..." exclamations. Hopefully this is not just because she'll be looking forward to borrowing it from me :lol:

Thanks for educating a Philistine!

Simon

[Jeremy Marchant]

I struggle to listen to Choral music.
Well, that's just a belief! Were you to get a decent recording (rather than listening to it on a pc) you would find it easier to hear the performance as being by a group of individuals, rather than a faceless mass. That said there are whole genres I struggle with - starting with opera - so it is each to their own taste.


I've placed an order for the 20th Century Masterpieces as recommended - that's incredibly good value...
Looking at it again, it is incredibly good value. Every CD seems to be 75 mins or so. The selection of music is very balanced - not just populist stuff, without being gratuitously obscure. The only obvious omission is Stockhausen. It's a great idea to run the pieces chronologically; the performances are often great ones...
I was going to pick out half a dozen plums, but they're all plums! So, I'll make a few comments.
If you like Part, you may well like Tavener (1988).
Don't give up on the Berg violin concerto, 'To the memory of an angel' (1935) - it's a masterpiece. Or the Henze (1979) or Ades (1997).
Prepare to be terrified by the Penderecki (1960) and awestruck by the Messiaen (1964).

[DanJennings]

I remember listening to Penderecki when I was a kid, and you're right, it DID bloody terrify me.
Learned to like it now though.... Cello concertos are a must.

[jazzpiano]

Hello,

Love this thread. For those frustrated/unsure re: their classical music ventures I suggest an experience like the following:

1) Late at night, when it's quiet, turn the lights down and put on a copy of Neville Marriner conducting the Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields performing Copland's 'Quiet City' (Argo ZRG 548), close your eyes and imagine...
2) Next, put on Adrian Boult conducting Gerald Finzi's 'New Years Music' on Lyrita.
3) Lastly, put on an old copy on Angel/EMI of Walter Gieseking (piano) performing Debussy's 'Arabesque'.

-This should do it. And, youi'll get a good night's sleep.

Best,
Barry

[jazzpiano]

Hello,

Sorry, I seem to have killed this thread. There's gotta be some good recommendations out there for classical music for people who are open to it, but don't know where to start? Sometimes it'll depend on a radio host - you like this program not that, or you like these 3 composers but not the other 20 you hear. Any ideas?

Best,
Barry

[DaveK]

Hi Barry,
I wouldn't worry about killing the thread - IIRC it's been a slow moving item from it's early days. Sooner or later someone will come along and add something. I think the whole subject of classical music has a bit of an elitist/snobbish reputation so newcomers to classical music tend to be wary of posting their thoughts on the subject - just my thoughts :) .

[Stratmangler]

2 years, 2 months and 10 days between post #26 and post #27 is not exactly a quick turnover in replies.

I wouldn't begin to entertain the thought that you had killed the thread Barry.
It had already fizzled out :cool:

[jazzpiano]

Thanks Dave and Chris. I'll still check-in from time to time to see if there's any action.
Best,
Barry

[Alex_UK]

OK, so - I really want to try out some classical - I have very little. Some good ideas on here, but I would like to try something very accessible - maybe stuff I will know subconsciously - "popular classics" I guess. I've got a few ideas - but would anyone like to help concoct a list of say 10 essential composers/recordings that would really help someone dabbling to get gripped and dragged into classical? Over to you... :)

[jandl100]

Where to start?
It's actually very difficult for someone who has loved the classics for the last 40 years or more, and whose musical taste is getting more and more esoteric, to advise a newbie what to listen to! :scratch:

My best advice might be ... if you do a fair bit of car driving, tune in to Classic FM - they play a very wide variety of classics, including a high proportion of 'accessible' stuff. See what, if anything, takes your fancy. :)

[jandl100]

Or pop into a charity shop or 2 and pick up some classical music sampler CDs - generally available for 50p-£1 each!

[jandl100]

Or do the Spotify thing with what folks are recommending on the classical music threads here!

Go on - download the 4th movement of Bruckner's 8th symphony, like I suggested Bob to try - and see what you think!

[Alex_UK]

Thanks Jerry - I'll expand a little later on what I have got (which will be an interesting topic in its own right I suspect) and what I do like - but most of it is "excerpts" and little full pieces, which is kind of what I'm angling for I guess - not just soundbites/TV adverts!

[DaveK]

Hi Alex,
Assuming you have access to mp3, just to give you a cheap taste, take a little listen to Capriccio Italien by Tchaikovsky - certainly not boring or depressing IMO.
You'll probably recognise Barber's Adagio as well as Mahler's 3rd Symphony.
If you like any of these report back and we might be able to suggest some more.

[Alex_UK]

Just put on Bruckners 4th which I have on a dodgy CD - the wife said "what the bloody hell are you listening to!" This may become a solitary pursuit! :lol:

[jandl100]

Hmm :hmm: yeah - Bruckner might not go with lilac curtains. :lol:

[Alex_UK]

Hmm :hmm: yeah - Bruckner might not go with lilac curtains. :lol:

:rfl:

[DaveK]

Just put on Bruckners 4th which I have on a dodgy CD - the wife said "what the bloody hell are you listening to!" This may become a solitary pursuit! :lol:

At the risk of stating the obvious, Jerry recommended the 4th movement of Bruckner's 8th.

[Alex_UK]

At the risk of stating the obvious, Jerry recommended the 4th movement of Bruckner's 8th.

Indeed he did - I put the 4th on (which is probably the only Bruckner I have) before his post, just to see what Bruckner is like! Just moved on to some Grieg which I know I like. :)

[MartinT]

OK, so - I really want to try out some classical - I have very little. Some good ideas on here, but I would like to try something very accessible - maybe stuff I will know subconsciously - "popular classics" I guess.

Although it's a very individual thing, I'll take the challenge of listing accessible popularist music that you may not have heard all the way through. Good performances and recordings are a must, and for that the Penguin Guide to Classical Music series are brilliant. Just avoid snoresville Readers Digest, Marshall Cavendish or similar second-rate issues. In no particular order:

1) Beethoven Symphony No. 5. The opening may have been done to death but this symphony could be held up as simply the pinnacle of composition. Beethoven would be revered if this had been his sole work. The intro to the 4th movement is absolutely glorious.

2) Mozart Requiem. Your first choral work, maybe? Mozart's writing contains more anger than sadness, in contrast with many other Requiems. Wonderful sound which you can just sink into. There are many good recordings.

3) Holst The Planets. My first introduction to classical music when I was nine years old, played to my class by my primary school teacher. Very enlightened, she was. Wonderful depictions of the planets and gods they were named after. Mars alone is a superb test of a system's mettle as well as great war music.

4) Prokofiev Symphony No. 1. Relatively modern work written in the classical (pre-romantic) style. Fun, lollipop music but with remarkable depth too. You will undoubtedly recognise parts of it.

5) Grieg Piano Concerto. You must have one piano concerto and this is the one to have. From the very opening, it's both mesmerising and beautiful. The second movement has some of the most lyrical and moving writing ever composed for piano.

6) Bach Keyboard Concertos. Originally written for harpsichord but they sound better played on the piano to my ears. A good pianist is a must and I recommend Murray Perahia for these. Bach wrote so much good music that choosing just one is almost silly, but these will give you an inkling of his greatness.

7) Richard Strauss - Also Sprach Zarathustra. Yes, we all know the opening, as used in the film 2001. But stick with it, the orchestration for strings is magnificent and the lyrical intensity keeps this one in constant rotation for me. A work that must be played whole. Several good recordings out there.

8) Dvorak Cello Concerto. Yes really, not the Elgar! I love this music, it's like a nice Pinot Grigio on a summer's afternoon - not challenging, just very pleasant indeed. I recommend the Tortelier or Rostropovich recordings.

9) Vivaldi Four Seasons. A curse on lifts around that world that have demeaned this great music. Very visual episodes and quite, quite wonderful if you buy a good performance. You simply must buy the Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble on BIS for this - I insist!

10) Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3. Like the Beethoven, this glorious French symphony keeps your attention and features that tune played by the organ in the third movement. Another one to seriously test your system's bass response. If the room doesn't shake, you need bigger speakers. Better still, though, this is magnificent music to listen to.

There you go - don't shoot me down in flames as I rattled this off over a sarnie. These 10 will start your collection. Buy them all, it won't cost you a lot!

[Alex_UK]

Fantastic Martin - appreciate the trouble you've taken to put this together - I will start with these and see how we go. :)

[jandl100]

Well done, Martin, those will do!

No chamber music or opera, though. ;)

And I still think that getting some classical music sampler CDs would be a good idea. :)

And I'd add Shostakovich 5th symphony for something a bit more modern.

Opera ... I can't see Alex going for Verdi or Puccini (although you never know, I guess), but how about Philip Glass's Akhnaten? I bet he might enjoy that.

[MartinT]

I didn't add Mahler or Bruckner or Shostakovich as I think they need to be slowly appreciated. As for Opera, I'd start with Carmen, I think.

How about adding to the list then, Jerry? Perhaps we could make it a library item with some expansion.

[JJack]

Heard a great one yesterday: the Bernstein West Side Story arrangement for violin, with Joshua Bell.

Yes, it's "Broadway" strictly speaking, but it's got a lot of classical in it too, and would be an excellent bridge for new listeners. Stunning recording as well