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The Vinyl Adventure
03-07-2009, 18:52
i have one of these things in a bag at the shop i work in. i got interested in listening to one after i found the owner of the shop had no less than 3 of them in his system and referd to them as "the missing link" i have since found out that it actually says this on the unit so he wasnt necessarily saying something of his own back about it if you get my meaning
anyway i asked the guys at head office to find one out for me to listen to within my old system as i was under the impression it might calm down my cd67mk11 ki a bit
anyway i have moved on from that cd player twice over now and it was only today when i went to head office they said "oh hamish we have had this for you for a while, do you still want it"
i said i didnt but i was still intriged by it so they have leant it to me.. unfotunatly i left it at the shop so thats where it is until i can fetch it tommorow...

anyway thats the little background story so here is the queerys...

what do we think of these things?

i have no intention of putting it anywhere important within my system and as i dont actually have a cd player any more is there any point in me even bringing it home?

i thought i might put it between the tuner and amp to add a bit of warmth.. am i on the wrong track with this???

Stratmangler
03-07-2009, 19:38
It's a unity gain line driving stage - in theory it should better match output/ input impedances between components eg CD to preamp or preamp to poweramp etc.

Check out this http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/873/ for starters.

A gain of factor 1 (equivalent to 0 dB) where both input and output are at the same voltage level and impedance is also known as unity gain.


Chris:)

Clive
03-07-2009, 20:14
If impedances need matching they work. Otherwise they slightly cloud the sound.

Spectral Morn
03-07-2009, 20:41
Hi Hamish

Read my review of the Ecofan Sound Buffer Zone. I compare it to the MF D10 with a MF psu. I try both units on several top flight CD players. My review speaks for what I think about the D10

Preview Link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1934

Review Link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1983




Regards D S D L

DSJR
03-07-2009, 22:34
Without reading the above reviews - I shall Neil, but not tonight, I agree with Clive. We sold a good number with Marantz CD63 KI Sigs. Remember that many ss amps only offer 10 - 20K as an input impedance (my Croft supposedly offers 100K as a comparison) and many cheaper output stages have an output impedance of 1K when it should be a tenth of that.....

Peter Stockwell
06-07-2009, 07:45
i have one of these things in a bag at the shop i work in. i got interested in listening to one after i found the owner of the shop had no less than 3 of them in his system and referd to them as "the missing link" i have since found out that it actually says this on the unit so he wasnt necessarily saying something of his own back about it if you get my meaning
anyway i asked the guys at head office to find one out for me to listen to within my old system as i was under the impression it might calm down my cd67mk11 ki a bit
anyway i have moved on from that cd player twice over now and it was only today when i went to head office they said "oh hamish we have had this for you for a while, do you still want it"
i said i didnt but i was still intriged by it so they have leant it to me.. unfotunatly i left it at the shop so thats where it is until i can fetch it tommorow...

anyway thats the little background story so here is the queerys...

what do we think of these things?

i have no intention of putting it anywhere important within my system and as i dont actually have a cd player any more is there any point in me even bringing it home?

i thought i might put it between the tuner and amp to add a bit of warmth.. am i on the wrong track with this???

Hamish,

Never heard an X10-D; but please Hamish, some punctuation in your posts. Without they are very tiring to read and, worse, unclear.

Thanks

electric beach
06-07-2009, 09:49
I've had an X-10D in and out of my system since they were first launched and I agree with all that's been stated here before. It's always been a love/hate relationship; I loved the sense of body and presence but always resented losing some transparency and detail, so would periodically lose my faith. Generally it stayed in, as I accepted I couldn't live without it's benefits. I mainly used it with a Clock2 modded Pioneer PDS703, Audicom modded Dacmagic and Roksan Caspian integrated amp. It was only when the Musical Fidelity DAC21 came to live that it became completely redundant but I would try it again in any lesser context or system before being reminded what a frustrating little beggar it is.

Audiocom AV
06-07-2009, 11:02
what do we think of these things?

Hello Hamish

I have had a fair number of customers report great benefits with the X-10, hooked up to the output of some CD players costing in the £1.5K region.

I suggest you give it a try and if you like it keep it in the system.

Regards,
Mark

The Vinyl Adventure
06-07-2009, 22:01
Cheers for the pointers, I have read many comments on this thing and it, even more so than "normal" hifi products, seems to be somthing that no one can really agree on! I shall try it in various places within my system and see what happens!

Peter I am sorry about my poor grammer, but unfortunatly I am not that great at it and it now been made even worse by only going on this site via my Iphone and his seems to have made me even worse at it!!! I will endevour to try harder but unfortunately when I was at school I was one of those who "could try harder" but enevitably didn't .....

Peter Stockwell
07-07-2009, 12:41
Peter I am sorry about my poor grammer, but unfortunatly I am not that great at it and it now been made even worse by only going on this site via my Iphone and his seems to have made me even worse at it!!! I will endevour to try harder but unfortunately when I was at school I was one of those who "could try harder" but enevitably didn't .....

Hamish,

An iphone is great but obviosuly doesn't help grammar:). When in doubt, make a new sentence is my moto! Coz, I wasn't brill' in grammar either.

DSJR
07-07-2009, 12:54
There was a site somewhere that discusses tweaking the old X series. I suspect some tube-rolling may help the X10-D more than a little. It works well with ss amps with "only" 10K input impedance and cd players with, say 1K output impedance (original Rega Planet had a very high 1.2K output impedance according to Acoustica). Naim preamps used to have a very high input impedance (a legacy of the c. 1950's preamp circuit which matched the c. 1950's power circuit).

My Croft offers at least 100K on its input, which should mean any extra buffering is unnecessary. AVI's sources (CD and tuner) offered vanishingly low output impedances which again, offered excellent compatibilty.

This is only a tiny part of the story though, but it's one area where professionals seem to have a huge edge over much of the domestic market. IIRC, the now long outdated DIN standard tried to improve matching and basic specs. I can't quite understand why CD players had such huge outputs compared to other sources though - good in theory I think, as the more you can shove done the wires the less the interaction of these wires (within reason).

Theadmans
08-07-2009, 16:04
The Rock Grotto site is the place to go for info on the x10d:-

http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=q


...I have used an x10d in my (relatively) low cost main system for years now. I use the Russian 6N23P tubes as recommended by Rock Grotto. I originally used the x10d with a Marantz CD63 Ki Signature. I now use the x10d with a Pioneer PD-S705 used as a transport with a Cambridge Dacmagic 2 Mk II. I like what the x10d does in my system with these tubes - smoothes things out and improves bass quality - with little apparent loss in detail.

The Vinyl Adventure
08-07-2009, 21:14
I finally got round to plugging it in today tried it inbetween my pc/little cheap dac and the nva a50/p30 I'm currently running in the office, purely out of interest really... It did very little. That maybe because of the fact I currently can't hear much else apart from the random pops and clicks the USB hub is causing in that system
(does anyone please know where I can get a good USB hub from???)
anyway I'm now listening to it in this set up: Sony bd550 - optical cable - standac 7520 - out of variable out put - x10-d - yamaha 759 dsp amp - naim 82 - naim 180 - speakers ... now that's what I call a signal path!!!!
It sounds a bit pants to be fair... Although I'm not sure I should have expected much else ?! The blue ray into the standac then out of the fixed output and into the yam etc. as a direct comparison doesn't sound to much better (it's just there so the missis can play CDs ... The linn majik confuses her) . it sound's in hannah's words " less muffled " with out the x10d. I think it sounds louder, not in volume, more like a loudness button being pressed... Less refined, I guess this is the clouding people speak of?

Going to try it tomo inbetween the majik and the naim but I think it's not going to do it any favours, I'm just intrigued by it really

After that I think il take it back, I'm coming to the conclusion it is surplus to requirements within my kit

DSJR
08-07-2009, 21:35
The Naim 82 is from their old school and because the input impedance is fairly high, you won't need the X10-D. You could try it between the NVA pre and power, but if the interconnects are short and low capacitance as suggested by RD, then it may mess this one up as well..

Peter Stockwell
09-07-2009, 09:49
[I]t sound's in Hannah's words " less muffled " without the x10d. I think it sounds louder, not in volume, more like a loudness button being pressed... Less refined, I guess this is the clouding people speak of?

Back in the day, Stereophool ran a test on the X10-D. They found that a) it added about 1dB of insertion gain, and b) detail was lost. IIRC. 1dB is barely discernable, it's two "dabs" on your 82's remote volume control (it's 2 dabs on my 282) normally 3dB is required to detect "louder", but between two similiar presentations the one with more "dB" will sound more present.