Amazing Albarrys

[esperowl]

Hi guys, I've been loaned an old pair of Albarry M1008 monos. I believe that they once belonged to Dandy of this forum.
I moved away from SS and got into valve amps a couple of years ago, as nothing SS I tried gelled with my Quad 57s. However, a recent speaker purchase (I'm still keeping the 57s) prompted me to audition other valve amps as my current valve monos are a tad under-powered with these new speakers. Again, nothing I heard has tempted me away from my valve monos - until that is I heard the Albarrys this weekend. Wow! I was not expecting THAT. I was so convinced that valves are where its at - very presumptive of me and quite wrong. I think I've learned an important lesson these last few days (ie not too over generalize) but the best bit is that I've fallen in love all over again with this crazy hobby.

Anyow, I've temporarily partnered Albarrys with a valve preamp but I'd like to find out if they have a little more to offer. I'm not in a position right now to buy Albarry's current preamp offering so I'd like to request your recommendations for preamps that would do the M1008s justice. Croft preamps are often recommended with Albarry but I already have a valve pre - I'm wondering about SS as an alternative.
Thanks in advance. Chang.

[Audioman]

Hi guys, I've been loaned an old pair of Albarry M1008 monos. I believe that they once belonged to Dandy of this forum.
I moved away from SS and got into valve amps a couple of years ago, as nothing SS I tried gelled with my Quad 57s. However, a recent speaker purchase (I'm still keeping the 57s) prompted me to audition other valve amps as my current valve monos are a tad under-powered with these new speakers. Again, nothing I heard has tempted me away from my valve monos - until that is I heard the Albarrys this weekend. Wow! I was not expecting THAT. I was so convinced that valves are where its at - very presumptive of me and quite wrong. I think I've learned an important lesson these last few days (ie not too over generalize) but the best bit is that I've fallen in love all over again with this crazy hobby.

Anyow, I've temporarily partnered Albarrys with a valve preamp but I'd like to find out if they have a little more to offer. I'm not in a position right now to buy Albarry's current preamp offering so I'd like to request your recommendations for preamps that would do the M1008s justice. Croft preamps are often recommended with Albarry but I already have a valve pre - I'm wondering about SS as an alternative.
Thanks in advance. Chang.

The Croft preamps are a definite electrical mismatch with the new Albarrys so I would assume the input impedance of the older 1008 is similar. Contrary to some advice I have found a passive works. I am using the old Albarry AP3 passive preamp with my M608s. I am assured that the NVA passive pre is compatible and this may be an improvement with the stepped attenuator option (£300). A valve pre which I believe is compatible is the Puresound L10 and these have come up used at around £1400.

Paul.

[Reffc]

Good advice above. I have the newer M608 monos and now partner them with Albarry's preamp and it's as you'd expect a match made in heaven. The monos just didn't gel with the croft preamp I had here prior to the Albarry pre but did work with a passive quite well, so the passive route may be worth considering as long as it's buffered for low output impedance as the Albarry monos have a lowish input impedance (Neil designs them that way apparently for better RFI rejection)

[trio leo]

I sometimes see Albarry passive pre-amps on ebay.
HiFi Dave will know the best options for you, also in the trade section he has the latest HiFi + review on the stunning M1108's, well worth a read IMHO.
Some say Albarry's sound more like valve amps than some valve amps, even old amps like yours will sound great for years, it's nice to see the new models are starting to get the recognition they deserve and they are designed and hand built in the UK to boot.

Good luck finding a suitable pre

enjoy your music

regards Al

[jandl100]

I've heard Paul (Reffc)'s Albarrys both in my system (just the power amps, not the pre) and in his - I must confess to finding them a bit 'polite' dynamically and on the warm side tonally in both systems.
But then I do tend to favour a rather more upfront than strictly neutral sound, so maybe that it. They aren't on my own Want List, but I can understand why others like them! :thumbsup:


Some say Albarry's sound more like valve amps than some valve amps

Yup, that's it! :) they are a slightly old fashioned valve sound, imo. A bit soft and cuddly. Festooned with rich tonal colour, and excellent detail and microdynamics, though; I think that's their strength.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Just a couple of weeks or so ago, a member managed to find an Albarry pre-amp (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30893-Albarry-AP4&highlight=albarry+ap4) for not much money at all. I wonder if you might find a way to cross his palm with silver in exchange for prising it from his (overstuffed) audio warehouse?

[Audioman]

I've heard Paul (Reffc)'s Albarrys both in my system (just the power amps, not the pre) and in his - I must confess to finding them a bit 'polite' dynamically and on the warm side tonally in both systems.
But then I do tend to favour a rather more upfront than strictly neutral sound, so maybe that it. They aren't on my own Want List, but I can understand why others like them! :thumbsup:

Yup, that's it! :) they are a slightly old fashioned valve sound, imo. A bit soft and cuddly. Festooned with rich tonal colour, and excellent detail and microdynamics, though; I think that's their strength.

Jerry. I wouldn't describe them in the least warm and certainly not like a traditional pipe and slippers valve amp sound. Actually open and neutral but lacking the graininess often associated with solid state. I have only heard this from some far more expensive valve amps. Personally I wouldn't want to use them with overly bright sounding components. If Paul's set up sounded warm I would put that down to cartridge or speakers being used.

Paul.

[hifi_dave]

Jerry. I wouldn't describe them in the least warm and certainly not like a traditional pipe and slippers valve amp sound. Actually open and neutral but lacking the graininess often associated with solid state. I have only heard this from some far more expensive valve amps. Personally I wouldn't want to use them with overly bright sounding components. If Paul's set up sounded warm I would put that down to cartridge or speakers being used.

Paul.

Agreed. I've never heard them sound 'warm'. Not 'bright' in the poor solid state way, just neutral and very dynamic.

[jandl100]

Well, fine, I'm just reporting what I perceived in both my system (and Paul agreed) and in Paul's system where the opinion is mine alone. :)

[trio leo]

"polite dynamically and tonally on the warm side" Mmmm, I have had Albarry's for 30 years, I can only assume that if a pair of M608's are sounding this way, something in the system is slowing them down.
I describe Albarry's (all models) as fast, dynamic, articulate and musically convincing.
Neil Burnett is a musician as well as designer/engineer and he loves live concerts, I'm sure he wants to replicate what the musicians intended.

might be worth having a play around and swap a few bits to see if you can achieve their full potential, I would put my M1108's up against any amp at any price.

enjoy your music

regards Al

[Reffc]

Jerry. I wouldn't describe them in the least warm and certainly not like a traditional pipe and slippers valve amp sound. Actually open and neutral but lacking the graininess often associated with solid state. I have only heard this from some far more expensive valve amps. Personally I wouldn't want to use them with overly bright sounding components. If Paul's set up sounded warm I would put that down to cartridge or speakers being used.

Paul.

I agree. They don't sound warm in the least with my kit....just smooth and very neutral/authoritative. They sounded slightly warm of neutral in Jerry's system though I can't remember what sources they were partnered with at the time.

[Tim]

I don't know if its of any help, but I was considering maybe selling my Albarry PP1 integrated amp, which can also be used as a pre? Part of me wants to keep it, but its not getting used. I just can't make up my mind :scratch:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/albarry3_zps617e3e58.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/albarry3_zps617e3e58.jpg.html)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/albarry2_zps3d2c23ca.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/albarry2_zps3d2c23ca.jpg.html)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/albarry1_zps5e98093d.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/albarry1_zps5e98093d.jpg.html)

[Marco]

I can't comment on the Albarrys, folks, as I haven't heard them, but please don't automatically associate a 'warm & cuddly' sound with valve amps, as that is NOT how ones that are properly designed sound...! :nono:

One gets rather tired of hearing the same old stereotypes.......

Marco (whose valve amps make most SS amps sound 'pipe & slippers' ;))

[PaulStewart]

I can't comment on the Albarrys, folks, as I haven't heard them, but please don't automatically associate a 'warm & cuddly' sound with valve amps, as that is NOT how ones that are properly designed sound...! :nono:

One gets rather tired of hearing the same old stereotypes.......
+1 :)

[jandl100]

Who'se done that then? Not me, guv. :nono:

Well, I didn't mean to, anyway. :)
-- I equated them to "a slightly old fashioned valve sound"; think Quad II on steroids, but still a bit Quad II-ish, imo.

[Audioman]

I can't comment on the Albarrys, folks, as I haven't heard them, but please don't automatically associate a 'warm & cuddly' sound with valve amps, as that is NOT how ones that are properly designed sound...! :nono:

One gets rather tired of hearing the same old stereotypes.......

Marco (whose valve amps make most SS amps sound 'pipe & slippers' ;))


Who'se done that then? Not me, guv. :nono:

Well, I didn't mean to, anyway. :)
-- I equated them to "a slightly old fashioned valve sound"; think Quad II on steroids, but still a bit Quad II-ish, imo.

Marco. The Albarry's are nothing like the sound Jerry insists on describing them at all. Talking about Quad's just compounds this error. They are very open and lean sounding while at the same time being smooth and lacking grain. Rather close to the modern valve sound you prefer. I would say they are as near to neutral as I have heard and any warmth added is likely due to the preamp or other components being used. They are rather fussy about pre amp matching as was obvious when I heard them on the end of Andrew's (Elephantears) Croft derived pre.

Paul.

[Reffc]

Marco. The Albarry's are nothing like the sound Jerry insists on describing them at all. Talking about Quad's just compounds this error. They are very open and lean sounding while at the same time being smooth and lacking grain. Rather close to the modern valve sound you prefer. I would say they are as near to neutral as I have heard and any warmth added is likely due to the preamp or other components being used. They are rather fussy about pre amp matching as was obvious when I heard them on the end of Andrew's (Elephantears) Croft derived pre.

Paul.

Paul.

I'd go along with that. The preamp match is pretty critical with the monos. Used with Albarray's own preamp, they're about as neutral sounding match as you're likely to hear. In fact, they're about the most invisible part of the hifi chain, if that makes sense, and certainly one of the very best amplifier choices I've ever made. Very resolving of source components and music, very good grip on just about any speaker load except very demanding (those speakers demanding several hundred watts) or odd (read sub 4 Ohm nominal) loads. With anything else, they're magic.

[jandl100]

Fine, fine - it's over 24 hours now so I can't delete the content of my posts giving my own opinion of the Albarry sound. I would if I could.
I really didn't want to make a fuss, I was just giving my own slant based on my own experiences in different systems of what I heard - pros and cons, well, not even that - just the type of presentation that I heard.

But if a kindly mod would care to delete any hint of mine that the amps are less than perfect for everyone, then fine. :thumbsup:

[Marco]

Marco. The Albarry's are nothing like the sound Jerry insists on describing them at all. Talking about Quad's just compounds this error. They are very open and lean sounding while at the same time being smooth and lacking grain. Rather close to the modern valve sound you prefer. I would say they are as near to neutral as I have heard and any warmth added is likely due to the preamp or other components being used. They are rather fussy about pre amp matching as was obvious when I heard them on the end of Andrew's (Elephantears) Croft derived pre.

Paul.

Fairy muff... I understand where you're coming from now :)

It was a bit confusing, as although I haven't heard the Albarrys in question, I've heard other Albarry designs before, and they didn't sound anything like Jerry described either.

However, at the end of the day, he heard what he heard, even if it wasn't representative of how the amps usually perform in ideal circumstances, and so there's no need for anything to be deleted. We don't delete anyone's honest opinions here, even if they are contrary to those of the majority.

Marco.

[esperowl]

Guys many thanks for your input (many via PM) and thanks Jerry for your take on the Albarrys; it is also appreciated.

I'm using them with a valve preamp at the moment and the sound is not a million miles away from when I use valve monos with the same preamp. I started the thread because I was wondering to what extent my pre was dominating the overall presentation (also curious as to what a passive pre or an active SS pre might do to the final sound). I think that from all of your replies its safe to say that the Albarrys are particularly sensitive to preamp partnering.

I've had a reply from Neil Burnett and he suggests that the M1008 are best served with by one the older Albarry preamps. Furthermore, he advised me that the suitability of using any passive preamp will be dependent on the output impedance of the source rather than on the passive unit itself.
As I'm very much a technical numpty, does this mean that a passive pre-amp can't have an impedance (as it is passive). As its simply a voltage divider (attenuator?) between the source and power-amps, does that mean the load seen by the power amp will vary according to the position of the volume control? What effect will that have on the presentation if crank the volume up?
Maybe a sensible route to try would be to try out a variety of affordable preamps (Croft basic micro, a Tisbury passive, an older Albarry pre etc...) which could be sold on without to much loss if they didn't suit.

[jandl100]

Maybe a sensible route to try would be to try out a variety of affordable preamps (Croft basic micro, a Tisbury passive, an older Albarry pre etc...) which could be sold on without to much loss if they didn't suit.

I have a Tisbury passive pre out on loan to a fellow AOSer at the moment. I could ask him to send it on to you once he has finished with it, if you like. :)

[Audioman]

Guys many thanks for your input (many via PM) and thanks Jerry for your take on the Albarrys; it is also appreciated.

I'm using them with a valve preamp at the moment and the sound is not a million miles away from when I use valve monos with the same preamp. I started the thread because I was wondering to what extent my pre was dominating the overall presentation (also curious as to what a passive pre or an active SS pre might do to the final sound). I think that from all of your replies its safe to say that the Albarrys are particularly sensitive to preamp partnering.

I've had a reply from Neil Burnett and he suggests that the M1008 are best served with by one the older Albarry preamps. Furthermore, he advised me that the suitability of using any passive preamp will be dependent on the output impedance of the source rather than on the passive unit itself.
As I'm very much a technical numpty, does this mean that a passive pre-amp can't have an impedance (as it is passive). As its simply a voltage divider (attenuator?) between the source and power-amps, does that mean the load seen by the power amp will vary according to the position of the volume control? What effect will that have on the presentation if crank the volume up?
Maybe a sensible route to try would be to try out a variety of affordable preamps (Croft basic micro, a Tisbury passive, an older Albarry pre etc...) which could be sold on without to much loss if they didn't suit.

You are on the right lines. Both Tisbury and BTE wrongly in my view go on about impedance matching for their products. Basically you must have enough output from the source to drive the power amps which is easy with a Cd player but some phono stages won't have enough gain. I think a phono pre with variable gain is best suited if using a number of cartridges of varying output. Also the volume pot should operate on log scale otherwise you can have a loudness problem with CD. I know this appears to be the way the Albarry pre works and also the NVA passive. Forum member Macca had a loudness issue matching a Tisbury to his XTZ amp and is happy with his NVA P90 fitted with attenuators.

Paul.

[esperowl]

I have a Tisbury passive pre out on loan to a fellow AOSer at the moment. I could ask him to send it on to you once he has finished with it, if you like. :)

Yes please - that's very kind of you Jerry.