View Full Version : Upgrading my speakers from Epos ES-14
Hi all,
As you are likely more than aware I have had my Epos ES-14's for some time and although I have heard a number of speakers, nothing has jumped out as significantly better than the Epos without spending stupid money.
Has anyone had the chance to hear the new Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, I have read and heard really good things about these 'cheap' Sonus Faber's and was interested to see what people thought!
One of the things I love about the Epos is how good and natural the midrange is and having heard a number of 'Expensive' Sonus Faber's, I know they know what they're doing in that department.
Paul.
Floyddroid
03-02-2014, 06:51
I listened to a pair of Sonus Faber venere 2.5 speakers last week at Hifi Sounds in Stockton. They were excellent especially for the money. However, I feel that the sea change in the bass/made from your Epos ES 14's would take some getting used to. I think that the Venere's use carbon fibre bass drivers and came across as very smooth to me. No harm in that but you may not find them as open in the mid as you are used to. Beautiful pieces of sculpture and look a million dollars. I think they would work really well with the Exposures cool up front punchy sound. Give em a wurl before you shell out though.
I had a similar dilemma when i changed from Ruark speakers to my present transducers having been a dyed in the wool Ruark man for a million years. Have fun.
I'd say Harbeth 30.1's, but you'd possibly miss the treble character of the 14's and complain about the bass. Midrange on all Harbeths is in a different league though I think to the slightly squonky ES14 mid (summat to do with the cabs I think).
I'm not convinced; I've heard the Harbeth's and nothing about them persuaded me to dump my ES14's.
You will need to spend a lot more than you think as the 14 is a fantastic speaker. I sold my ES 14 and got some Kef refrance 1 and that was a massive mistake on my part. It took the Celestion A2 at the time £1500 to notice a good upgrade. I would say if you are buying S/H look at some Dynaudio. Or if you are half decent at DIY have a look at Wilmslow audio HSM. It is a large stand mount speaker that uses very good drivers. The sound they kick out is superb and is a a good step up from the 14. Some guy is selling a pair on ebay at the moment for £500 or so. A bit to much for a S/H pair they are my old HSM's that have done the rounds. But they are a fantastic speaker. Also keep you eye open for Ruark Crusader or Equinox both very nice speakers that can be had for good money.
Martyn Miles
04-02-2014, 08:08
I'm not convinced; I've heard the Harbeths and nothing about them persuaded me to dump my ES14s.
Each to his own... I have never heard midrange from ( almost...) any other conventional loudspeaker that compares to Harbeth's ' Radial ' driver.
mr sneff
04-02-2014, 08:44
Hi all,
As you are likely more than aware I have had my Epos ES-14's for some time and although I have heard a number of speakers, nothing has jumped out as significantly better than the Epos without spending stupid money.
Has anyone had the chance to hear the new Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, I have read and heard really good things about these 'cheap' Sonus Faber's and was interested to see what people thought!
One of the things I love about the Epos is how good and natural the midrange is and having heard a number of 'Expensive' Sonus Faber's, I know they know what they're doing in that department.
Paul.
What is it that you're unhappy with about the ES-14s or that you feel could be bettered?
The directly connected (crossoverless) bass/mid driver in the ES14 is rather special in terms of mid-range performance. This aspect will be a challenge to match whilst improving bass and top-end...especially if a crossover is brought into play for the mid-range. Then again Mark is over the moon with his Yams so it is possible.
Each to his own... I have never heard midrange from ( almost...) any other conventional loudspeaker that compares to Harbeth's ' Radial ' driver.
In terms of tonal quality and timbre, yes, but in terms of immediacy and speed, no...
I do love my Es-14s too - they have an open fresh sound that is difficult to match. The bass is a little soft compared to what I have now, and the top end can be a bit splashy, but matched to the right components they are still an outstanding speaker. I think the directly connected bass/mid driver gives them an open, fast and immediate nature that I found hard to improve on without looking at spending a lot of money.
Martyn Miles
04-02-2014, 12:40
In terms of tonal quality and timbre, yes, but in terms of immediacy and speed, no...
Speed? My own spoken word recordings sound the most natural through my P3ESRs.
If you want 'speed' buy some paper coned JBLs. Not accurate, but fast.
Now, what is this 'fast ' ? As I, and many others have said before, what suits one doesn't suit another...
M Miles.
Dauntless
04-02-2014, 14:15
From the comments of others it looks to me you should tread carefully with any replacement for your Epos speakers Paul. I had a look at the Wilmslow speakers that Lee mentions on E Bay and they look ok to me. I have a pair of Wilmslow Audio Classiques that carry the same Volt Bass/mid but are fitted with Visaton ribbons. I would think that these would be similar to the Wilmslow speakers that Lee recommends but with maybe a little more low end. I looked at Wilmslow's current catalogue and I think they may have discontinued the HSM's. Another that is worth looking at is the XTZ 99.32 Piano floorstander. http://www.xtzsound.eu/en/products/speakers/99-36-mkii-piano# It is quite a difficult drive compared to the Wilmslow speakers but could be passive bi-amped with your Exposure amps. These would all come in under the 2.3K you would need for the Sonus Fabers. I have to say they do look good though!
No they still do the HSM.
If you can find them then some Royd RR3s or those Sintras on eBay would be well worth a try. £300 and up for the Sintras and £650 and up for the RR3s.
Whilst it might not be an "upgrade" in all areas you might appreciate the change without losing out on the ES14 strengths.
What is it that you're unhappy with about the ES-14s or that you feel could be bettered?
Depth of bass is probably the only thing. They have a strange roll or nothing and then some deeper bass but apart from that I honestly cannot think of anything... However if you spoke to wifey, she'd tell you they are rather ugly which I can understand as they do look rather industrial with the open stands but for me that part of the appeal :)
Hi Paul,
Going back to your original question, about the SF Venere, I recently had an extensive listen to both the 2.5 and 3 floorstanders and must admit that they proved to be a little bit of a mixed bag (to my ears at least); they performed exceptionally well in the lower frequencies department - the bass was fast, articulate and quite well extended but seemingly at the expense of that famed SF midband delicacy - equally I found that the high frequencies were a tad "pinched" and a little too lean for my taste ("courtesy" perhaps of the new DKM tweeter they use in this series?). Overall, I found them to have a noticeable forward/bright(ish) tonality to the point that it made me wonder whether I was listening to a SF product in the first place..
On a positive note, the fit/finish/looks are absolutely gorgeous, especially in the flesh and, overall, they are very good speakers in many respects. But I would strongly recommend an extensive listen, especially with your own amps, before taking the plunge.
That being said, similarly priced offerings from Triangle, KEF or Proac might be worth considering?
Cheers
j.
Hi Paul,
I'm not sure exactly how much they are, although I suspect that they're in the same ball-park, price wise, as the Sonus Fabers you're considering, but how about the Usher Dancer Mini-One Diamonds, shown here:
http://www.usheraudio.com/Loudspeaker_Dancer%20Mini-One%20diamond.html
I can tell you that the Usher Dancer range sound superb, and should give you all the detail and midrange presence you're used to with your ES14s, including a goodly dollop of 'oomph', as well as being clad in rather pretty boxes! They're also not at all amp fussy, so your Exposures should be fine for the job.
Usher aren't really a make of speakers that get much recognition in the UK, which is a great shame, as they offer superb SPPV and, IMO, are finished to a standard that rivals that of Sonus Faber, which TBH, I find somewhat 'sleepy sounding' and certainly don't have the 'PRaT' of ES14s.
If the Mini-One Diamonds are in your price range, then I'd defo find your nearest dealer and check them out, as they might just be the ticket! :cool:
Marco.
+1 Marco - Usher speakers have always impressed me - across the range.
Well, they certainly look the part:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/713/mm4q.jpg
As long as Paul's system isn't on the bright side (as those Diamond tweeters are unfailingly accurate, but take no prisoners), I reckon that the results would be superb. The inner detail and resolution that they produce is incredible :)
They're around £2950: http://www.mackenziehifi.com/usher-audio-dancer-mini-one-diamond-dmd-1948-p.asp
Marco.
Just noticed that our very own Scott Nangle (daytona600) does them: http://www.scottnangle.co.uk/usher_audio_15.html
Good review here: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0411/usher_audio_dancer_mini_one_diamond_dmd.htm
Marco.
Have I frightened you off, Paul? :D :scratch:
:popcorn:
Marco.
Something I would suggest when changing or upgrading on the speaker front is not to sell the old ones until you are definitely sure about the new ones. Difficult I know if the sale of the old ones is necessary to afford the new ones. Double difficult with the Epos as they are pretty special and a difficult act to improve on in that sort of category. I could live with some ES14 quite happily if I had to downsize to smaller speakers.
If you can find them then some Royd RR3s or those Sintras on eBay would be well worth a try. £300 and up for the Sintras and £650 and up for the RR3s.
Whilst it might not be an "upgrade" in all areas you might appreciate the change without losing out on the ES14 strengths.
Paul, didn't you use your 14's without the sponge bungs in? I still maintain that the bass will be totally out of control and all too easily modified by the room positioning. According to Robin Marshall, whom I knew very well since my KJ Watford/Audiomaster days, the later and most popular version of the 14 was designed to have the 'controlled leak' given by the sponge bungs and close-to-wall mounting. The light bass was preferred by the Linn/Naim dealers who sold most of them as it works well with fruitbox'style vinyl reproduction.
Floyddroid
11-02-2014, 20:44
Lee has hit the nail on the head. Ditto.
You will need to spend a lot more than you think as the 14 is a fantastic speaker. I sold my ES 14 and got some Kef refrance 1 and that was a massive mistake on my part. It took the Celestion A2 at the time £1500 to notice a good upgrade. I would say if you are buying S/H look at some Dynaudio. Or if you are half decent at DIY have a look at Wilmslow audio HSM. It is a large stand mount speaker that uses very good drivers. The sound they kick out is superb and is a a good step up from the 14. Some guy is selling a pair on ebay at the moment for £500 or so. A bit to much for a S/H pair they are my old HSM's that have done the rounds. But they are a fantastic speaker. Also keep you eye open for Ruark Crusader or Equinox both very nice speakers that can be had for good money.
Paul, didn't you use your 14's without the sponge bungs in? I still maintain that the bass will be totally out of control and all too easily modified by the room positioning. According to Robin Marshall, whom I knew very well since my KJ Watford/Audiomaster days, the later and most popular version of the 14 was designed to have the 'controlled leak' given by the sponge bungs and close-to-wall mounting. The light bass was preferred by the Linn/Naim dealers who sold most of them as it works well with fruitbox'style vinyl reproduction.
I don't suppose anyone knows where I could get some replacement bungs? I lost them along the way, and I guess the bung foam is of a specific density. I wanted to buy a length and and cut them down to tune the bass to my liking. Definitely too boomy without them - I have tried sports socks, but they get blown out of the port if I turn the volume up a bit, so I think a more carefully thought out approach could be needed :)
Cheers,
Alex
Sorry all I completely forgot I'd posted this thread :doh: and thanks to Marco for reminding me.
Now those Ushers look gorgeous and my system is anything but bright, in fact a slightly brighter top end might be worth a look!
Yes, Dave I do still use the ES14s with the bungs out as I prefer them. With the bungs in they are really bass light and the soundstage appears to shrink a lot. The bass was a little wooly until I added the second power amp which now has grabbed hold of the bass like there's no tomorrow :)
I have to admit that changing the ES14s is going to be a hard task... I have such a balanced system current and am a little paranoid that changing too much will disrupt that sound significantly!
P.
As some of you are likely aware, I have recently (last Thursday) upgraded my speakers to a lovely pair of Second-Hand Focal Electra 1028 BE Loudspeakers and so far they are more than worth the money I have paid out for them… In fact, I'd argue they are worth their original value of £5999.99 too as they are that good.
Ridiculous levels of detail pulled out of every track you listen too with the same level of laid back (although not too much) approach that the Epos did but in the case of the Focal's, they just do more and more… They go reasonably low in the bass department 28Hz and have the smoothest sounding tweeter I have ever heard :)
My Dad and I spent all day on Friday listening to them and never once felt fatigue or unpleasantness throughout…
Yes I know that some people probably don't like them because of their connection with Naim, but I think you are letting yourself down if you are looking for a new pair of speakers and you don't audition the Focal range, they are that good (oh and significantly better than Naim - I have never ever ever liked the sound of Naim speakers personally - although they have got better since Focal bought into Naim) :)
Paul.
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