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talisman2
23-01-2014, 09:48
i have noticed since joining AOS that there is a very small minority of members whose sole purpose seems to be slagging off well established brands (Krell , dCS etc) , now i agree that people are entitled to their opinion , but what useful purpose does it serve to 'rubbish' other peoples gear ? ,i think that we should try to help and advise other members rather than put people off .
most of the firms named have been going for many, many years , and you don't keep going if you sell rubbish !!!

YNWaN
23-01-2014, 10:15
People like to put others down, it makes them feel superior - this isn't an AoS quality, it is a human one (though an unfortunate one).

Haselsh1
23-01-2014, 10:40
I think a lot of this could just be 'sour grapes' because the individual simply cannot afford a Krell or Audio Research. A lot of people here are very happy with what they have and simply focus on the music and the new CD or vinyl they have just purchased, not wanting to imagine spending thousands on what is apparently the next best thing. Most of my money goes on new vinyl or CD's as I don't want to be a member of that particular rat race.

Wakefield Turntables
23-01-2014, 10:53
I could easily afford Krell/dCs/ etc but two things top me.

1. I've never heard any of it.
2. Currently I'm very very happy with what I've got.

Now, if Krell/Audio Research blow my kit away I'd buy some. Simples! But, I have too much fun messing with vintage gear, car booting, buying old vinyl, and all the other stuff that goes with this hobby.

Andy

Effem
23-01-2014, 11:03
i have noticed since joining AOS that there is a very small minority of members whose sole purpose seems to be slagging off well established brands (Krell , dCS etc) , now i agree that people are entitled to their opinion , but what useful purpose does it serve to 'rubbish' other peoples gear ? ,i think that we should try to help and advise other members rather than put people off .
most of the firms named have been going for many, many years , and you don't keep going if you sell rubbish !!!

I don't specifically recall anyone on AoS being derogatory about any one particular marque or or a number of marques just for the sake of it, but I have heard plenty from people that have bought certain items and been rather less than pleased with their purchase - I rank amongst that kind to be truthful and I would rather be open and honest about my first hand experiences so that others are not swayed into buying items that similarly may not suit their tastes.

It can of course be viewed either as "adding to the knowledge pool" or easily misconstrued as "slagging off" and it is for you alone to decipher which.

prestonchipfryer
23-01-2014, 11:12
I don't find that at all. Always had nothing but positive remarks myself and have used a lot of knowledge gleaned from the AoS. Maybe ''slagging-off'' is for certain other forums.

john

nat8808
23-01-2014, 13:31
i have noticed since joining AOS that there is a very small minority of members whose sole purpose seems to be slagging off well established brands (Krell , dCS etc) , now i agree that people are entitled to their opinion , but what useful purpose does it serve to 'rubbish' other peoples gear ? ,i think that we should try to help and advise other members rather than put people off .
most of the firms named have been going for many, many years , and you don't keep going if you sell rubbish !!!

I don't recognise this particularly at all...

Sure some people have negative views about equipment because they've found they never liked it and therefore perhaps it's all hype. That's a fair opinion to have IMO.

You should also understand that positive bias towards all equipment (i.e. deliberately holding off criticism of equipment for fear of hurting some sensitive soul) is a bad thing. What is wrong with people expressing themselves honestly?

We already have positive bias in the magazine industry, afraid to give a bad review or simply not reviewing kit if it's bad. It distorts reality and also allows those who don't get reviewed (because the equipment is bad) to just pump out their own propaganda/hype without challenge.

There's also positive bias in peer reviewed journals as editors don't want to have negative feelings toward their journals nor face legal challenges - therefore new findings which dispute the previous positive outcomes for a drug or theory simply don't get published leaving only the positive and now distorted reality in public view.

So, please, let's allow each other to slag off equipment if we feel it is deserved but let us all be grown-up about it !

The "he's only slagging it off because he can't afford it and is jealous! " belongs in the playground in my opinion - it's a load of bollox.


P.S. If you've only been joined to AoS since Sept 2013, perhaps you're not reading a broad enough selection of posts? Isn't it a bit reactionary, almost trolling to slag people off on a forum you've not been joined to for long? Stick with it and read a little more in depth...

nat8808
23-01-2014, 13:33
Maybe ''slagging-off'' is for certain other forums.

john

haha... very true!

YNWaN
23-01-2014, 14:21
I don't specifically recall anyone on AoS being derogatory about any one particular marque.

I can think of a situation where this has occured - but it is very limited.

The sort of behaviour described is a lot more common on most of the other forums

synsei
23-01-2014, 14:26
I'm not averse to giving a less than positive review of equipment if it doesn't perform to my expectations, as other members can confirm. In fact on a couple of occasions it has got me into a spot of bother with the various 'acolyte' brigades... :lol:

Joe
23-01-2014, 14:27
To be honest, there are so many variables between rooms, systems and individuals' tastes that any one person's opinion of a piece of audio equipment, favourable or otherwise, is essentially meaningless. If you're spending Krell or dcs amounts of money, especially if buying new, you really do need to listen for yourself.

Haselsh1
23-01-2014, 15:55
To be honest, there are so many variables between rooms, systems and individuals' tastes that any one person's opinion of a piece of audio equipment, favourable or otherwise, is essentially meaningless. If you're spending Krell or dcs amounts of money, especially if buying new, you really do need to listen for yourself.

I couldn't agree more. The only time I have had to criticise gear was not through sound quality but was through the general lack of quality and finish and was well justified IMO. It is all effectively meaningless unless you are in the market for that particular piece of gear and then it may be more than helpful.

Haselsh1
23-01-2014, 15:57
I could easily afford Krell/dCs/ etc but two things top me.

1. I've never heard any of it.
2. Currently I'm very very happy with what I've got.

Now, if Krell/Audio Research blow my kit away I'd buy some. Simples! But, I have too much fun messing with vintage gear, car booting, buying old vinyl, and all the other stuff that goes with this hobby.

Andy

Andy, you are indeed very lucky...! I am also well into what I have which is why most of my money goes on new vinyl and Cd's.

Haselsh1
23-01-2014, 16:05
So, please, let's allow each other to slag off equipment if we feel it is deserved but let us all be grown-up about it !


But we're not openly allowed to 'slag off' gear because if we do we are instructed to 'But Out'

SLS
23-01-2014, 16:18
But we're not openly allowed to 'slag off' gear because if we do we are instructed to 'But Out'

At the risk of getting "but out'ed", I had a Linn 2200 power amp that was bloody awful. Got better sound out of the dishwasher. Replaced a beautiful Primare 30.1. In my defence, and theirs, have a Linn streamer and is very good.

Maybe there should be a stream for bits of kit regretted buying for bods who want to vent spleen.

synsei
23-01-2014, 16:44
At the risk of getting "but out'ed", I had a Linn 2200 power amp that was bloody awful. Got better sound out of the dishwasher. Replaced a beautiful Primare 30.1. In my defence, and theirs, have a Linn streamer and is very good.

Maybe there should be a stream for bits of kit regretted buying for bods who want to vent spleen.

Now that could be interesting. Bagsy I get to build the ring, Marco can be ref and Adam can look into selling the TV rights to SKY... :D

SLS
23-01-2014, 16:50
Now that could be interesting. Bagsy I get to build the ring, Marco can be ref and Adam can look into selling the TV rights to SKY... :D

Are you suggesting we get in a ring with bits of dodgy kit and chuck them at each other ? With Marco handing out the toffees he bought at the 99p store. Not what I had in mind.

Maybe a Brainiac Audio Day (those with kids who will understand and spot the acronym) - blowing up bits of dodgy kit in an open field.

synsei
23-01-2014, 17:23
Are you suggesting we get in a ring with bits of dodgy kit and chuck them at each other ? With Marco handing out the toffees he bought at the 99p store. Not what I had in mind.

Maybe a Brainiac Audio Day (those with kids who will understand and spot the acronym) - blowing up bits of dodgy kit in an open field.

Perfect, I'll call Mythbusters immediately, if not sooner... :lol:

Mr Kipling
23-01-2014, 18:10
I could easily afford Krell/dCs/ etc but two things top me.

1. I've never heard any of it.
2. Currently I'm very very happy with what I've got.

Now, if Krell/Audio Research blow my kit away I'd buy some. Simples! But, I have too much fun messing with vintage gear, car booting, buying old vinyl, and all the other stuff that goes with this hobby.

Andy

What's it like to have money Andy? I've always wondered.

Not sure what to do with it? Heard the old white fivers are pretty good at dampening 301/401 plinths. Simpley attach with pva glue.

Prefer to use them in the mattress? Fair enough. New twenties are said to be nearly as effective. Don't get the same coverage however. Probably not an issue for a man of your means! I'll have to make do with plasticised fruit drink containers.

losenotaminute
23-01-2014, 18:18
I can think of a situation where this has occured - but it is very limited.

The sort of behaviour described is a lot more common on most of the other forums

I agree, in general this forum is not too bad for trolling, they mostly go elsewhere. You have to bear in mind that Marco rules with an iron fist ;-)

Lawrence

Wakefield Turntables
23-01-2014, 19:50
What's it like to have money Andy? I've always wondered.

Not sure what to do with it? Heard the old white fivers are pretty good at dampening 301/401 plinths. Simpley attach with pva glue.

Prefer to use them in the mattress? Fair enough. New twenties are said to be nearly as effective. Don't get the same coverage however. Probably not an issue for a man of your means! I'll have to make do with plasticised fruit drink containers.

Its actually ok. But there again I've studied for 19 years, gained several degree's, and worked 50 weeks a year, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day running several companies including x2 clinics, a software publishing business, and a property development concern for so long I cant remember. So I dont feel guilty one little but when I say I can afford Krell etc, but just cos I can afford to buy it dosent mean to say I'd spend silly money on it ;)

Mr Kipling
23-01-2014, 19:56
T'was just for amusement value.

Never been envious by nature.

Wakefield Turntables
23-01-2014, 20:12
Don't worry Stephen I didn't take your post as being envious at all. I can see that some will but that's their problem!

Mr Kipling
23-01-2014, 20:26
I've never understood envy Andy. Yes, for a minute or two I might wish that I had this or that, but that's it. On the other hand I've known one or two mates that had real jealous natures and did envy what others had. But that's how some are, and they don't seem to change. It's part of their makeup and who they are.

Haselsh1
24-01-2014, 08:47
You simply have to be happy in the knowledge that what you have is perfectly good enough for what you want. All I want to do is listen to my music the way I want it to sound. At the moment, it is perfect.

Joe
24-01-2014, 10:25
Its actually ok. But there again I've studied for 19 years, gained several degree's, and worked 50 weeks a year, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day running several companies including x2 clinics, a software publishing business, and a property development concern for so long I cant remember.

I feel tired just reading that!

Macca
24-01-2014, 12:41
I feel tired just reading that!

yeah, these bloody go-getters making us all feel bad... :)

Wakefield Turntables
24-01-2014, 15:40
I feel tired just reading that!


yeah, these bloody go-getters making us all feel bad... :)

:lol: I've scaled back now a little bit. I'm taking some time off to set up a new Website and write an e-book. ;)

Joe
24-01-2014, 16:31
yeah, these bloody go-getters making us all feel bad... :)

I bet his system's completely dust-free and spotlessly clean as well.

Wakefield Turntables
24-01-2014, 16:40
I bet his system's completely dust-free and spotlessly clean as well.


I have a maid for that.

synsei
24-01-2014, 16:40
It's the audiophile dust that makes my system sing, sounds crap without it... :lol:

Mr Kipling
25-01-2014, 14:23
T'was just for amusement value.

Never been envious by nature.

Yesterday a bloke who used to work where I do called in at work. He now gets twice the wage I get (minimum wage), more holidays, doesn't have to flogg his guts out all day and has a proper canteen and fascilities. I did feel a certain envy hearing the news, but it soon ebbed away.

Floyddroid
27-01-2014, 19:51
A very interesting thread this. It has been intriguing to see the replies. I feel that i want to contribute to this one though i will show restraint. Hifi is a pretty broad church with so many characters involved. I often feel that hifi can be used as an emotional currency and sadly there are those out there that buy better hifi equipment to be one up on their mates. It is when you loose sight of why you became interested in hifi in the first place and what floats your boat as an individua,l and start you buying chunks of gear to be better than yer mates that you need to realise yer f....d as a human being.
I have recently began to part with my high end stuff and enjoy the tinkering elements of hifi again. Having met some amazing people at the recent NEBO bake off's who build there own fantastic equipment that really made me think differently about some equipment.
I do have to agree that it is soul destroying when people rubbish your kit. When i was a lesser person and far too imature to deal with such things i would even sell gear because i then thought it was crap when someone dissed it. When really it is only someone elses opinion. I have never been a fan of Krell amplifiers but that does not detract from the fact that they make some of the best amplifiers money can buy. We all have a right to our preferance and find the whole concept of trolling to be the act of complex characters.
In addition, things that are written on forums are that of text and have no intination unlike the spoken word. Therefore it is hard sometimes to know what is written in jest or something more sinister. Damn!!!!!!!!!!! i ended up contibuting to this thread anyway.
AOS is without doubt the better of the main audio forums and the one that i feel most comfortable writing on. However, the whole idea of a forum is the differing ideals and views. Right, i'm off for a nap.:)

Wakefield Turntables
27-01-2014, 20:17
+1 with all of that. Firstly never take any of my comments too seriously. Secondly I couldn't agree with you more with regards homebuild stuff. I have too comissions on the go at the moment, a 4 box phonostage built by Simon (who is a perfectionist!) and also some x-o by Paul at RFC. I've not heard the x-o some this is a leap of faith, but the honesty of the guy beggers believe!! Now I have heard a 3 box version of the paradise phonostage (which Si's building for me), and this kicked the arse of a £3K+ Whest phonostage. I tell you now I'm not paying anywhere near that amount. Home made hifi is the way forward for best SFPVMF.