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Dave Cawley
07-06-2009, 07:20
If it wasn't for Marco; an influential customer would not have ordered this SL-1210 fitted with a £2,000 SME V tone arm and a £3K'ish Koetsu Rosewood Signature running into a A.N.T. MC Ltd phono stage. :kiss:

http://www.soundhifi.com/rosewood.jpg

http://www.soundhifi.com/sme5.jpg

http://www.soundhifi.com/copper.jpg

If it wasn't for Marco; at the last Heathrow Show a SL-1200, Jelco SA-750D, AT-OC9ML/II, A.N.T. MC Ltd phonostage stage and prototype A.N.T. headphone amplifier was voted by many to be best sound at the show. OK we popped a grand on a set of über cool headphones, but to many the SL-1200 was like all the birds were singing in the sky.

Well done Marco, you truly are the man!!

Regards

:bag:

Dave

REM
07-06-2009, 09:09
Hi Dave

WOW

No wonder you haven't been answering the phone these last couple of days, too busy playing, er sorry, I mean working on the 1210:lol:.
Seriously that is one cool looking machine, would it be breaking any confidentiality to give us an idea of the rest of the system it is going to be used with??:smoking::smoking:

Cheers

DSJR
07-06-2009, 10:39
Now that's interesting, as I'd never have dreamed of putting an exalted classic arm and an overpriced Supex clone on a cheapo DJ direct drive :D ;)

Jealous, ME?????????????????????????

With the exception of the cartridge, which may have been significantly livened up over the Koetsus of my era, the SME V seems a very benign arm on a wide variety of turntables from Pink T's of yore to LP12's and all manner of Garrards and Thorens 124's. I hope the deck sounds as good as it looks and will give decades of musical joy to the new owner (Don't wear the stylus out Mr Cawley.............)


P.S. The new owner ought to take the final step and upgrade the Koetsu to an M3D - yes, really.......:D

No sour grapes, honestly :) Thanks Marco for going the extra mile (and having the finances to do so) and giving us all something to think about..

Spectral Morn
07-06-2009, 10:47
I wonder what a Garaham 2.2 or Phantom B44 arm would sound like on one of these TT's. So far Cash Converters has only had pairs of these decks, sometimes with a mixer as well DJ Dalek Supreme anyone ?;):doh:....so I will have to wait until one turns up by itself. Not in the position to buy a new one.....maybe when I get that illusive job...we shall see.

Dave do you offer a Graham cut armboard ? or if not can you ?


Regards D S D L

REM
07-06-2009, 10:52
Jealous, ME?????????????????????????




P.S. The new owner ought to take the final step and upgrade the Koetsu to an M3D - yes, really.......:D



No no no, it really needs a proper cart, a Denon 103!!

Jealous, ME???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

:lolsign::lolsign:

DSJR
07-06-2009, 11:05
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :gig:

chris@panteg
07-06-2009, 12:32
;)I have changed my mind ' i don't aspire to an SP10 anymore

Marco
07-06-2009, 18:44
Hi Dave,

This is all very flattering, so thank you, but I'm slightly confused as to what my role was in the sale :scratch:

Could you explain in a bit more detail please? :)

Marco.

P.S It's DP's deck innit?

Spectral Morn
07-06-2009, 18:57
It appears that the arm lift lower out rigger arm rest is touching the top of the TT in the photo. Surely thats not a good thing I would have thought. Is there a suspension ?


Regards D S D L

MartinT
07-06-2009, 20:31
If it wasn't for AoS, Marco & Dave, I would never have discovered SL-1210 nirvana and returned so gladly to enjoying vinyl again. Dave, you're a true gent, and I hope to meet Marco one day. So thanks one and all!

Marco
08-06-2009, 09:07
I get what Dave means now - cheers, mate! :cool:

I'd like to say a big 'thank you' to you for importing the Jelcos into the UK, together with the bespoke armplates, Neglex cable, etc, and designing the Time Step PSU. This has been a very significant factor in me obtaining such high performance from my SL-1210 :)

Guys,

When something's *really* good and offers high SPPV I will always champion it on AOS, and the Techy is a valid case in point.

I think it's important that more lateral thinking with hi-fi is promoted to help people think outside of the box and not simply succumb to the 'usual suspects' from the mainstream end of 'high-end' hi-fi.

What I'm passionate about is people obtaining fantastic gear that they previously might not have considered, and which punches well above its weight in terms of performance. There is equipment like that out there, but it can only be found by looking further than the end of your nose and when not being seduced by the cachet of 'badge hi-fi'!

Anyway, thanks a lot for your support. Look out for some new 'amazing new discoveries' coming your way soon! ;)

Marco.

Dave Cawley
08-06-2009, 14:08
Guys

So many questions!

I can't say who the owner is, but you will know soon.

We can supply armplates for any arm, we just need details or the arm.

The Koetsu Rosewood Signature is now the Red K Signature and retails at £3,300.00 and worth every penny. So impressed was I, that I have one on order for me and we will now sell them. :kiss:

The arm rest doesn't quite touch the chassis, but even if it did it is part of the same piece of metal the armplate fixes to. The suspension is all below on another level.

We have access to a full machine shop and a full test/development laboratory. So for money we can do almost anything.

Marco was instrumental in driving this project onwards and upwards, we all owe him!

Regards

:bag:

Dave

Marco
08-06-2009, 14:52
Stop it, you're making me blush :o

:)

Marco.

P.S I know whose deck it is and the plans which are afoot ;)

Mike
08-06-2009, 16:07
The Koetsu Rosewood Signature is now the Red K Signature and retails at £3,300.00 and worth every penny. So impressed was I, that I have one on order for me and we will now sell them.

A gem of a cartridge! :)

I had the chance to by a brand new one for £1600 only a couple of years ago, I could have just about almost maybe have afforded it too... But didn't.

Doh! :doh:

DSJR
08-06-2009, 16:12
Stop it, you're making me blush :o

:)

Marco.

P.S I know whose deck it is and the plans which are afoot ;)

You know, one thing I HATE is being left out of the "loop....."

Plans afoot? I can't take it any more.......:steam:

chris@panteg
08-06-2009, 21:51
Great Stuff Marco and Dave

It seems to me that i have discovered this little DJ deck at just the right time ' with all these options ' i really really want a Jelco on my deck ' still inclined towards the 750d .

Marco ' one little question i never did find out what you felt was the difference between the KAB and the Timestep ? thoughts !

Marco
08-06-2009, 21:58
Marco ' one little question i never did find out what you felt was the difference between the KAB and the Timestep ? thoughts !


I know I've said this before, but I'll reveal all in detail in my forthcoming review - promise!

I'm writing bits of it on and off at the moment between work, but I expect to finish it soon. Look out for it because, trust me, it will make for some very interesting reading ;)

Marco.

P.S Dave (DSJR), I can't say any more about the forthcoming plans. Part 1 of the international 'Techy revolution' will be revealed in due course :eyebrows:

Peter Stockwell
09-06-2009, 06:36
And I thought I was nuts with a humble SME IV on my Teccie!

Marco
09-06-2009, 06:52
Hey, Peter, howz it hangin'? :)

The fact is, once a high quality off-board PSU has been fitted to the Techy, and its other minor 'foibles' eradicated, you can fit any arm and cartridge you like, and it'll reveal their full potential - and indeed that of the music itself.

Thus modified, it is quite simply up there with some of the best turntables you can buy today, regardless of price - and that's speaking as a realist, not a fanboi ;)

Marco.

SteveW
09-06-2009, 19:59
Good grief...this is getting really interesting.

Peter Stockwell
10-06-2009, 07:04
Looks like I'll just have to get that TimeStep PSU ...

David Price
02-07-2009, 23:29
...this is the very deck featured in this month's edition of Hi-Fi World - and I can confirm it sounds quite beautiful, a really synergistic combination. So much so that the SME V and Koetsu seem to have been made for one another all along! Timestep PSU is stunning, and Mr Cawley's a bit handy in the set-up department too! I honestly don't think I could come up with a better all round turntable/arm/cartridge combination at this price, something I hadn't expected saying when Dave and I came up with the idea for this feature several months ago! I hope it makes the anti-SL1200 brigade actually go and listen to one...

The Grand Wazoo
02-07-2009, 23:43
I hope it makes the anti-SL1200 brigade actually go and listen to one...

That's the interesting thing, isn't it David - most of the antis haven't heard what it's capable of.

We all choose the particular set of compromises that best suit us, but in hi-fi, the naysayers so often don't actually have first hand experience.
I'll be sticking with my Gyro for now, though!

Cheers

Dave Cawley
03-07-2009, 09:29
As the title says "If it wasn't for Marco" and it's true, well done mate! :kiss:

The review which we should all read, is available in the online version by clicking here (http://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/subscribe.aspx?source=4&eid=d99e2a5b-6cd9-4c46-90f7-420e98c78eee). Not only 4 lovely pages and photographs but a fifth and separate editorial page just about the SL-1200 so yes, five pages on this deck.

My next project is the "everyman's" affordable version where it will be fitted with the Jelco SA-250ST. But I can configure a SL-1200/1210 with just about anything, give me a challenge.............

In the long and distant pipeline the new bearing is going to be revolutionary and some new feet will stand scrutiny from AOS members. The existing feet available are not damped and if you ever drove a car with duff shock absorbers or a Shogun set to soft over a field, you will know where I'm coming from. But as with everything measurement come first, a product has to be designed to do the job first, and then it is tweaked for musicality, no additional false artefacts here!

So this evening at 8:30 we should all raise a glass to toast Marco!

Regards

:bag:

Dave

anthonyTD
03-07-2009, 09:50
hi dave,
nice deck !!! may i ask is the copper platter insert there for show or was it in fact a design feature to reduce eddy currents from the motor reaching the cartridge???
anthony,TD...

MartinT
03-07-2009, 14:25
Nice review. It's a shame that he didn't have the Isonoe feet mounted as I feel it makes quite a difference. Dave - was the motor dynamics mod installed? I'm intrigued by David Price's finding that deep bass was not as strong as upper bass. Not my finding at all.

Mike
03-07-2009, 14:46
the new bearing is going to be revolutionary

Oh good grief! :doh:

Mike
03-07-2009, 14:48
But as with everything measurement come first

Don't let Marco see that, he'll have you lynched... oops, too late! ;)

DSJR
03-07-2009, 17:30
But that's how ALL decent and long lasting product is designed. Get the technical side basically right and then tweak the remainder while listening to get the compromises as well balanced as possible. That way, you have a competently designed product that sounds good too...

Regarding the regulation/servo tweaks, does the SP10 need similar?

Marco
08-11-2011, 15:46
I came across this thread again today. Interesting to see how things have panned out since then, isn't it? ;)

Marco.

sq225917
08-11-2011, 16:02
All animals have little mites, which live on their backs and bite em, and little mites have parasites and so ad' infinitum...

T'interweb is littered with sales parasites who jump on popular bandwagons to help shift their goods. You're better off without em mate..

MartinT
08-11-2011, 21:51
Water under the bridge, Marco. Dave C took himself out of our consciousness but the SL-1210 didn't. As I said many moons ago, it was his action and his loss. Meanwhile, our love of the Techie goes on.

leo
08-11-2011, 22:38
The constant griping towards other trade members and their products isn't something I miss :whistle:
Anyway best to move on eh ;)

Marco
09-11-2011, 08:37
Lol - indeed. I just found it quite funny reading it again yesterday, that's all! :eyebrows:

Marco.

DSJR
09-11-2011, 12:21
I'd still love an SP10 though :)

RobbieGong
09-11-2011, 13:15
I'd still love an SP10 though :)

Me too ! - A MK3 discovered in the back of some back in da day hi fi store, mint and still boxed would be nice :drool: Oh ! and the small matter of funds to purchase it too might help !! :lol:

Marco
09-11-2011, 18:18
I'd still love an SP10 though :)

When you hear Martin's Techy and mine at Scalford hall next year (if you come!) you'll soon change your mind ;)

The days of me using an SP10 as a (sonic) benchmark are long gone.... You say ta-ta to that as a reference, once you've fitted a Mike New bearing and platter, and an SR5 PSU (or one of similar ilk)!

One day someone will heavily modify an SP10, and *then* you'll be talking.....

Marco.

MartinT
09-11-2011, 18:25
...and I'm about to perform the full Paul Hynes internal regulator upgrades to make it sound even better. I'll start a new thread to storyboard it.

Marco
09-11-2011, 18:31
Nice one, dude. Can't wait to read about it! :)

I'll also shortly have a, to quote Paul: "customised for the SL1200/SL1210 version of the SR7EHD (extra heavy duty) power supply with a 250 VA transformer, balanced rectification on both supply rails and a much larger energy storage capacitor bank than the SR5."

Plus, Arthur's also sending me one of his platters to try!

Isn't life fun? :eyebrows:

Marco.

MartinT
09-11-2011, 18:38
Indeed it is. Next I'll be hijacking the neighbourhood's three-phase power rails in order to feed the Techie with direct 400V 5000A instantaneous current capability to overcome some slight groove drag I'm experiencing...

Marco
09-11-2011, 18:42
Jeez, if you need 400V, 5000A instantaneous current capability to overcome some 'slight groove drag', what the feck will I need with my SPU tracking at 4.1g!! :eek:

The fun thing is though that I should have the above mentioned PSU, new Ortofon tonearm and 'posh SPU', for our forthcoming sesh on the 19th :cool:

:gig: :rave:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
09-11-2011, 19:25
Nice one, dude. Can't wait to read about it! :)

I'll also shortly have a, to quote Paul: "customised for the SL1200/SL1210 version of the SR7EHD (extra heavy duty) power supply with a 250 VA transformer, balanced rectification on both supply rails and a much larger energy storage capacitor bank than the SR5."

Marco.

I've got the even more exotic version of this coming as well so God knows what that'll sound like (even bigger eyebrows!) :eyebrows:

Marco
09-11-2011, 19:34
I don't think there is a more 'exotic' version, Andrew, for a T/T. What model number is yours, and in what way is it more 'exotic'? :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
09-11-2011, 20:07
Here's a couple of sentences from a PM I got from Paul, hope he dosen't mind me sharing :-

"I also make an XL version of the SR7EHD power supply and this uses Teflon boards for the regulator circuitry with rolled copper foils (not electro-deposited copper), Vishay bulk foil resistors and Silmic II capacitors. This level of build quality does start getting expensive, especially with one off orders for the Teflon boards, so I only do these as custom orders for those who are not too concerned with cost."

Hope this answers your questions

PS its called the XLOFSR7

Marco
09-11-2011, 20:11
Lol - no worries... Love the model number! :eyebrows:

I hadn't gone into that level of detail with Paul, when we corresponded, so what I'm getting may include that stuff. I'll find out :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
09-11-2011, 20:22
sad i cant get down to the bakeoff. I think by the time we get Paul internal regs as well the techie will probably go as far as we can take it. Possibly a new recapping and new transistors on the PCB, or even silver wound coils on the main pcb rather than copper. Man that is pushing things a bit too far!!!!!!

MartinT
09-11-2011, 20:23
silver wound coils on the main pcb rather than copper

<gulp>

You go first.

Wakefield Turntables
09-11-2011, 20:30
if i thought it wound sonically improve the 1210 then i'd do it. I'd need to know costs and a workshop which could do the work.

Marco
09-11-2011, 20:40
You're on your own with that one, Andrew!

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
09-11-2011, 20:44
Thought so! Some of the ideas I have for the 1210 are quite often bonkers, stupid and not very well thought out! Maybe one day I'll actually sit down and see if any of them can be done!

MartinT
09-11-2011, 22:02
It would be a braver man than me who would rewind those motor coils.

RobHolt
11-11-2011, 00:32
Jeez, if you need 400V, 5000A instantaneous current capability to overcome some 'slight groove drag', what the feck will I need with my SPU tracking at 4.1g!! :eek:



Wow, it tracks that high?

Rob

Marco
11-11-2011, 00:42
Hi Rob,

Yup, 3g minimum, and up to 5g. I find that in my system 4.1g is optimal.

Don't get the wrong impression though, there is no trace whatsoever of abnormal groove wear on any of my records, which have been played umpteen times with the SPU tracking at that level of downforce. I am extremely fastidious about the condition of my records.

I think that's what puts some people (like Tony L) off of SPUs, but they needn't worry. Far better to have a cartridge tracking securely at 4.1g, than one not, tracking at much less than that! :)

Incidentally, I plan to do plenty of needle-drops when my T/T is fitted with its new arm and cartridge (and upgraded PSU), now that I've sorted out my gain issues with the soundcard, so look out for those ;)

Marco.

Audioman
11-11-2011, 08:40
Hi Rob,

Yup, 3g minimum, and up to 5g. I find that in my system 4.1g is optimal.

Don't get the wrong impression though, there is no trace whatsoever of abnormal groove wear on any of my records, which have been played umpteen times with the SPU tracking at that level of downforce. I am extremely fastidious about the condition of my records.

I think that's what puts some people (like Tony L) off of SPUs, but they needn't worry. Far better to have a cartridge tracking securely at 4.1g, than one not, tracking at much less than that! :)

Incidentally, I plan to do plenty of needle-drops when my T/T is fitted with its new arm and cartridge (and upgraded PSU), now that I've sorted out my gain issues with the soundcard, so look out for those ;)

Marco.

Anything over 3g suggested gives me the jitters having got into hi-fi when Shure were boasting 1g tracking weight. Took me a long time to feel comfortable with cartridges tracking at 2g. To be honest if a record is played at 4g many times over I would expect there to be a marginal degree of extra wear. Of course most of us have used lp's the playing history of which we don't know.

Getting back to the Original topic. When Sound Hi-FI and Dave were still flavour of the month. - Have you had the opportunity to hear his latest Funked up mods (so to speak) v your own Technics ?

Marco
11-11-2011, 08:58
Hi Paul,

You have a point, hence why I have now added the word "abnormal", to my above post, next to "groove wear".

ALL cartridges, no matter what tracking force they use, will eventually wear out record grooves. However, I can detect no difference in that respect, with the SPU than I could with any cartridge I've used tracking at 'normal' levels.

Therefore, in reality, the SPU's use of a high VTF is a non-issue. The most important thing of all with cartridges is to ensure that styli aren't worn, and that they are set up properly. Any other considerations, in comparison, pale into insignificance :)

Besides, as I usually prefer vintage cartridges with conical tips, high VTFs are par for the course!


Getting back to the Original topic. When Sound Hi-FI and Dave were still flavour of the month. - Have you had the opportunity to hear his latest Funked up mods (so to speak) v your own Technics ?


I'm shortly due to receive one of Arthur's new platters for the Technics, so it should be very interesting hearing how that compares to Mike's! :cool:

Marco.