View Full Version : Got a bit of cash spare Mr Toy?
Filterlab
04-03-2008, 12:27
You know you want it. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Spectral-Dma-150-Series-2-Power-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ260216290005QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 14973QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :)
Steve Toy
04-03-2008, 13:02
Er actually yes. Especially as I've learnt that I can get my hands on some MIT cables from Audio Works for under £600.
Filterlab
04-03-2008, 13:06
Nice one, do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it. :)
Steve Toy
04-03-2008, 13:37
Not so fast! I've just spoken to Larry who has advised me to get the serial number first. Then he'll research its provenance. If one particular serial number is eliminated I'll place a bid and sell the Densen.
Steve
Any news yet?
This auction is very suspicious. The ebay account was created on 29th Feb, probably to sell this specific item. The seller has no feedback or other history. Be careful!
Cheers
Larry
Steve Toy
05-03-2008, 10:41
The seller has not got back to me with a serial number so I won't touch it.
Just as well, really, as the glowing bottle amp I'm bringing chez-toi on Monday I'm confident will urinate from a great height on the Spectral's 'sorry-state' ;)
Marco.
Arh...... yes the Valves and solid state debate continues.
I had the privilege of listening to some very special valve amps a couple of weeks back in the context of a true reference system, one of only a very select handful of valve amps I consider to deliver the goods (no they are not Japanese either!).
These mono blocks had poise, real scale, insight-fullness, control coupled with a sweet open and involving sound, just top quality music making abilities (something the uber expensive Jap stuff does not achieve imho, they have other areas of sublimity :-0). Only Mr Murray Johnsons own units I feel are in the same league.(to my ears anyway!)
The sound was getting to the stage were I could be happy live with valves, even when powering my own personal speakers.
The following day I had returned to my own personal listening equipment, it is then you only realise the inherent strengths and weakness of your choices.
The Valve amp I heard lacked some of qualities I admire/seek in music reproduction, yet these were not slickly seductive or one trick ponies either, they just made music sound great. As all quality equipment should.
Conclusions here, only listen to what works for you!
I absolutely agree, Tony.
However, in my opinion, once you 'get' what valves do (in an excellent design - and it doesn't have to be expensive) and become seduced by the superior dynamic range, 'air' and 'space' around instruments, and the way voices float out of speakers and spookily hang in front of you, seemingly suspended in their own acoustic space, solid-state amps, even the best ones, sound shut-in, gritty and tonally monochromatic in comparison - and if you get the amp and speaker combination right the bass is every bit as tight and fast as on a good solid-state design.
This is the conclusion I've reached after spending some weeks experimenting with various valve and solid-state power amps in conjunction with my Croft valve preamp. Of course, I'm sure some people may have reached a different conclusion, but that's certainly what my ears are telling me, and I'm not alone... Modern valve amps are a totally different ball game to the warm, soggy sounding designs of the past, and when you get the amp and speaker synergy right I think the sound of a good valve amplifier combination is in a different league to anything solid-state has to offer.
But, hey, that's only my opinion based on my recent experiments in that area! :)
Marco.
Steve Toy
05-03-2008, 12:16
Marco,
At your place I prefered the Spectral (solid state) pre over the Croft (valve) pre into the Chinese valve amp. Valves do have many seductive qualities but much of these to my ears seem to be mainly presentational strengths. The Spectral had more depth, better dynamics, better timing and generally more insight into the musical performance itself. Yes it was a tad grainier but on balance I prefer a bit of grain to a slight loss of insight.
A Spectral pre/power combo really is my idea of recorded musical nirvana. However, on Monday I'll be keen to hear the Chinese valve amp with the Spectral pre behind it powering (hopefully) my hard-to-drive Piegas.
Steve,
As you know, we totally disagree on this and you haven't mentioned, forgetting all about preamps, how the Yaquin valve power amp murdered your Densen power amp... ;)
I can still see the smile on your face now when listening to the Eagles with the Spectral/Yaquin combination! :eyebrows:
However, I don't want to turn this into a tedious valve vs. solid-state debate. I was merely reporting on my recent findings. You'll see (hear) what I'm talking about on Monday :)
Marco.
Steve Toy
05-03-2008, 12:38
Marco,
From what I recall, we didn't disagree. We merely had different listening priorities. I remember you saying you heard what I heard but had a different preference to me given the set of sonic compromises on offer. At the time the Yaquin was considerably better than the Densen in all areas in your system (and rather efficient 8 ohm/90bB speakers) to both our ears.
If the Yaquin is capable of driving the more current-hungry Piegas with the same level of control, dynamics and headroom then it is going to piss over the Densen all over again.
Yep, it should be very interesting :)
Marco.
Filterlab
05-03-2008, 13:03
I'm still keen to hear my Revels on the end of the ECS amps. :)
Vinyl Grinder
05-03-2008, 13:06
You guys should really stop spending so much on power amps...
Filterlab
05-03-2008, 13:18
You guys should really stop spending so much on power amps...
Mate, I have an Audiolab 8000P - hardly a fortune!
Vinyl Grinder
05-03-2008, 13:26
Mate, I have an Audiolab 8000P - hardly a fortune!
No a reasonable priced amp, more than i can say about the Mclarens now.
Some spend thousands on amps for why? To show off more than anything because they always make a big thing about mentioning what they got all the time..:confused:
Iv'e heard some monster power amp Vs pretty cheap offerings & can honestly say the cheaper sound the better.
I'm hoping this all comes to light by next week, you two know who you are ;)
Marco,
I have no such traits you have listed above for solid state with any of the power amps I use personally.
I found those rather good valve mono bloc amps to give a lot of what I desire in music reproduction for sure, however I have not yet found anything I have considered changing them for, including ASR emitters and Dartzel's (which I feel is one of the best off the shelf amplifiers you can obtain at any price both valve or solid state).
A lot of solid state guys cross over to valves in order to find that something there are not getting, only to return at a later date (vice versa for the valve amp lovers too)
However actually starting out with the right amplifier negates this process LOL!
This swapping about will lead to other changes, as the remaining parts of your systems will then be exposed as not being able to 'keep up' or lacking the constituent parts that make up the whole, leading to the merry go round process of 'upgraditus' imho
If you have a well balanced and transparent system that is able to show differences is ANY equipment change, then your choices get a lot easier to make.
Also the cost can have nothing to do with the amount of sound quality generated either !
Filterlab
05-03-2008, 14:07
No a reasonable priced amp, more than i can say about the Mclarens now.
Some spend thousands on amps for why? To show off more than anything because they always make a big thing about mentioning what they got all the time..:confused:
Iv'e heard some monster power amp Vs pretty cheap offerings & can honestly say the cheaper sound the better.
I'm hoping this all comes to light by next week, you two know who you are ;)
I have heard some staggering amps in the £3000-£4000 range, amps that really show what's happening on the recording. That's the range I'll be buying in when I change the Audiolab (which is outclassed by my other bits of gear), probably leave it there as I almost have the sound I want. :)
I'm still keen to hear my Revels on the end of the ECS amps. :)
I think you might like that one, Rob, knowing the type of sonic and musical presentation you prefer :smoking:
Tony,
Nice post. I'll come back to you later. Right now I'm doing some 'tube rolling' with the Yaquin, and very interesting it is, too... :wow:
Discussions about Mr Toy's power amp shenanigans continue here. For details of my 'tube roling' adventure please see the new thread in the D.I.Y room.
Marco.
Looks like Steve was correct to leave this one alone (Spectral DMA 150 on Ebay), I hope the high bidder hasn't paid yet, I think Ebay have cancelled it.
Indeed. And I think he's found a better (and cheaper) solution anyway ;)
Marco.
Vinyl Grinder
10-03-2008, 22:49
Indeed. And I think he's found a better (and cheaper) solution anyway ;)
Marco.
Hope he's paid a bit more for UK Voltage transformer! you know what it would cost to have one made to replace the 110:lolsign:
Not sure I'm with you, mate. Steve will either by using the same step-down transformer as me or having the unit modified to take 240V by the same person modifying my Yaqin.
Marco.
Vinyl Grinder
11-03-2008, 11:32
Not sure I'm with you, mate. Steve will either by using the same step-down transformer as me or having the unit modified to take 240V by the same person modifying my Yaqin
Something else you lot.Just let Yaqin UK do the work!!
Why? I might prefer something different or better to what they recommend! :)
And I didn't even know there was a "Yaquin UK". Do they have a website?
Marco.
Vinyl Grinder
11-03-2008, 16:21
Why? I might prefer something different or better to what they recommend! :)
And I didn't even know there was a "Yaquin UK". Do they have a website?
Marco.
If you spelt there name right u might find em. :lolsign:
http://www.yaqin.co.uk/
Indeed! I quite like it with a 'u', though - makes it sound more exshotic... :eyebrows:
I don't think that website has anything to do with the Yaqin brand in China. It's just some bloke who buys the amps from the Far East (like I did) then sells them on Ebay for double the price he paid and calls himself "Yaqin UK", at least so I've heard.
I mean, why the f*ck would you want to pay £600 for an MC-100B when you can get one for half that price direct! You'd need to be a major numpty :lol:
Marco.
Steve Toy
12-03-2008, 15:14
This looks interesting...
http://www.yaqin.co.uk/mc100b.htm
Are you serious? That's who I've just been slagging off to Andre. He buys them in from China for the same price I paid and punts them on to people in the UK for twice that amount, and calls himself "Yaqin UK". He does diddly squat to convert them to 240V or to have them EU-approved.
Try to keep up, mate! :lolsign:
Marco.
Steve Toy
12-03-2008, 16:28
Marco,
I've sent him an email to that effect. The reply, if I get one, will be interesting.
Indeed! I quite like it with a 'u', though - makes it sound more exshotic... :eyebrows:
I don't think that website has anything to do with the Yaqin brand in China. It's just some bloke who buys the amps from the Far East (like I did) then sells them on Ebay for double the price he paid and calls himself "Yaqin UK", at least so I've heard.
I mean, why the f*ck would you want to pay £600 for an MC-100B when you can get one for half that price direct! You'd need to be a major numpty :lol:
Marco.
Errrr.... did you know you can order one 'at source' as 240V in the first place BTW? :mental:
LOL! Not from where I bought it from, unfortunately. Which source are you referring to, Mike?
Marco.
For example:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAOIN-MC100B-Class-A-Int-Power-Vacuum-Tube-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ280200517885QQihZ018QQcategoryZ 14973QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l 1247QQcmdZViewItem
Shocking price for shipping though! :stalks:
Mmm... I'd be very suspicious whether anything has actually been done to adjust it for accepting 240V.
Quite a few of the sellers of these Yaqins take the chance it will work on UK voltage because they've been designed to operate on 220V +/- 10%, so you're there or thereabouts...
It's fine if you upgrade the Chinese valves but if not they're likely to go pop.
Also, the total cost including shipping is slightly more expensive than I paid (£307.49). It's just the way some of them split the cost up to get it through customs more easily without incurring charges. With mine it was £9.99 for the amp and £297.50 for shipping!
Here's where I got mine. Michael is very good to deal with and offers a prompt and efficient service:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320213225547
Marco.
Thats still considerably cheaper than the supplier in the link I posted!
Note though, that the one in the picture in your link shows 220V which should be fine for UK use, so how come you are mucking about with a step down transformer?
All EEC countries are now supposed to be 'harmonised' at 230V. Which is bollocks! I've checked mine regularly and it's always 242V! :confused:
But:
Voltage tolerance of 230 V +10%/−6% (216.2 V to 253 V), to be widened to 230 V ±10% (207 V to 253 V) in 2008.
Who said 'cop out' ? :lolsign:
Cheers,
Mike.
The continuation of the 'tube rolling' part of this discussion can now be seen in the appropriately named thread in the D.I.Y room :)
The original thread topic now runs as intended, and since Steve is now seriously considering buying a Yaqin any comments on this are welcomed...
Marco.
Filterlab
14-03-2008, 14:18
These Yaqin amps must be good then, I've always been a bit sceptical of them myself but then again I've never heard one.
'Course they're bloody good - I wouldn't be putting £6k's worth of ECS monoblocks up for sale if they weren't! :smoking:
And Steve wouldn't be selling his £3k Densen power amp, either.
However you still might prefer the sound of the EA-1s...
All will be revealed in mid-April! ;)
Marco.
Steve Toy
14-03-2008, 15:04
I'm considering a number of options regarding my new amplifier. It will be a valve amp, I'm fairly sure of that.
Yep, the forthcoming valve amp/CDP shoot-out will be very interesting!
In the meantime, let's hear all about what happened at our little bake-off on Monday ;)
Marco.
Filterlab
14-03-2008, 15:10
Go on then...
:)
Indeed, Shteevie boy, we're all ears, er, eyes... :smoking:
Oh, and don't forget to send Rob the pics we took of the Croft and the Yaqin for posting :)
Marco.
Filterlab
14-03-2008, 15:31
So if you prefer the Yaqin MC-100B to your ECS monoblocks, should I just not buy a Yaqin instead of the ECSs?
Steve Toy
14-03-2008, 15:44
Rob,
The ECS amps are two hefty solid lumps of metal delivering an eye-watering 200wpc into 8 ohms and each lump comes with a 1500 VA toroidal transformer the size of a Dutch Gouda inside. You'll also do your back in lifting them.
Anyway, I'm sure the Revels will revel in the power and control.
Filterlab
14-03-2008, 15:52
Rob,
The ECS amps are two hefty solid lumps of metal delivering an eye-watering 200wpc into 8 ohms and each lump comes with a 1500 VA toroidal transformer the size of a Dutch Gouda inside. You'll also do your back in lifting them.
My kind of amp, but with the amount of working out I do I'd be surprised if I can't lift them. ;)
Anyway, I'm sure the Revels will revel in the power and control.
Yep, the Revels seem to like big powerful amps (so I read), whilst the 8000P has a fair wedge of current, even that lets go and relatively modest volumes.
So if you prefer the Yaqin MC-100B to your ECS monoblocks, should I just not buy a Yaqin instead of the ECSs?
You may well feel that way when you listen, Rob! It doesn't matter if you buy the EA-1s or not because someone will :)
The only reason I'm selling them is because I want some 'all-valve action' now with my chosen amplifier combination. The ECS monoblocks are superb, but as superb as they are, no solid-state amp can do the valve 'thing', and that's it in a nutshell. I'm just after a different 'flavour' now in my system.
The main thing is that you get something you're happy with that fulfils the criteria you have in mind. Both amps have a totally different sonic and musical presentation so only you can decide what is best for your needs, and crucially, what works best with the Revels.
However, one thing that might scupper it with the Yaqin is that it's nowhere near as good in standard form as an integrated amp. It needs a high quality (preferably valve, IMO) preamp at the helm before it shows its true capabilities - I'm talking something of the ilk of my Croft or Steve's Spectral. I'm not sure that your budget includes a spare £6k or so to spend on that type of preamp ;)
It's the combination of the Yaqin + [insert top-notch preamp of your choice] that's special, not the Yaqin on its own.
Marco.
Filterlab
14-03-2008, 16:39
Would be pointless adding a pre-amp bearing in mind my DAC has a very clean XLR output stage and I only have one source. I don't think a valve amp would work well with my speakers either, they are a touch demanding to be honest.
As for amps I'm still very interested in the Nuforce amps but I'm waiting to hear the EA-1s as a comparison. ;)
Rob,
You would benefit from a pre-amplifier, the dac1 pre-amp section is pretty average.
It would really help the performance of you system if you added one. imho
You may be right, Rob. I haven't heard your system.
However, I think you might be surprised how good the Croft (a valve preamp) is with your Revels. All I'll say is prepare to have your preconceptions somewhat 'readjusted' ;)
Marco.
Filterlab
15-03-2008, 11:07
Rob,
You would benefit from a pre-amplifier, the dac1 pre-amp section is pretty average.
It would really help the performance of you system if you added one. imho
I don't have a DAC1. :confused:
The bit I'm missing is if my DAC has a strong output stage, then why add another one in the chain? The DAC is designed to run straight into a power amp (or a mixing desk) and has an onboard pre-amp in order to drive any input stage with ease. Why would it be beneficial to then add another component to do the same job, in essence adding more potential variation (deviation) to the sound?
I had a pre-amp a few years back, I ditched it for the passive (which frankly destroyed it) then I did away with any kind of pre completely and now I have the cleanest, crispest and purest sound I've ever had. Granted it's shown up the flaws in my power amp which is decidedly outclassed either side but upgrading that will be far more beneficial than spending less on a power amp and buying an active pre - no? Not disagreeing or disputing, just trying to realise the reasoning behind it. :)
Steve Toy
15-03-2008, 11:43
A very good pre will always enable a power amp to work more effectively even if a certain rationalisation theory regarding signal path purity says otherwise. A good pre brings much improved dynamics, timing and depth in particular.
Rob,
Apologies for thinking you had the benchmark, senior moment again!.
However I stand by my thoughts earlier, even with the Apogee, and especially when concerning tvc style pre-amps too.
A good quality pre-amplifier is essential to a quality music reproducing system imho.
I concur with Tony and Steve's thoughts on preamps.
Anytime that I've followed conventional minimalist wisdom and taken my preamp out of the chain (the last time was running a pair of balanced XLRs between my old Audio Synthesis DAC and ECS monoblocks and using the volume control on the DAC) it's sounded worse - clearer and more hi-fi sounding, yes, but much less musical, too...
And I've also experienced the same with passive preamps. But then, I've got a very good preamp to start with. Maybe that's the problem? If you're using an average quality preamp that's imposing its signature too much on the signal then doing away with it and running direct is an upgrade. However it seems the rules change when a top-notch preamp is at the helm. This is what I've always found anyway. The problem is good preamps don't come cheap, and I think you're talking £3k+ for such an animal.
Marco.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.