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Spectral Morn
27-05-2009, 11:52
As mentioned at the tale end of my write up on the history of the Leak Trough-Line FM tuner, I felt I should do a companion piece on the sound quality of Leak Trough-Line tuners, well here it is. This was an interesting and challenging project to embark on as it is the first time I have ever compared the various tuners I own.

The tuners up for comparison were the Leak Trough-Line 2 and Trough-Line 3 which are used in combination with an EAR FM valve stereo decoder, the Leak Trough-Line Stereo (which has its own stereo decoder), The Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo and as a quality reference the Revox 260S FM tuner.

The system used comprised the following...Chapter Audio Preface Signature pre-amplifier, Chapter Audio Couplet power-amplifier and Anthony Gallo Ref 3.1 speakers. Cabling was Atlas Marvos speaker cable, Audience AU24 rca-rca interconnect, and the fixed cable? that comes with the Trough-Line Stereo (a weakness that can be removed by rewiring and placing rca sockets on the chassis.....a project for another day.) Power cables used included Audience AU24 hooked up to the Chapter electronics, TCI Boa Constrictor to the EAR decoder. Most of the tuners have fixed mains cables so no choice was possible (one of the Trough-Lines has the option, but a technical issue shortened the period of use, so no other make of cable was tried).

System used for the review
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners041.jpg

The biggest challenge was to find away to do fairly quick swapping between the tuners. In order to facilitate this a number of things were tried. Firstly a T splitter was installed at the end of the aerial cable, but after some non critical listening it was found to compromise aerial voltage to much so was abandoned. The solution lay in fitting each Trough-Line with a flying lead wired with a 75 Ohm Belling Lee connector from the aerial connection at the back of the tuner. The fitting of these flying leads allowed quick plugging and unplugging between tuners and the coupler used to join aerial to tuners was less of a compromise than the T splitter.

Another problem (which was solved several years ago, or so I thought) raised its head...overall aerial signal strength. It is well known that the Leak Trough-Line tuners lack the sensitivity and selectivity of modern tuners so the base line quality of the FM aerial must be much better to achieve best sound quality and keep noise low or absent. The sensitivity among the TL tuners varied slightly and with the TL2 having, surprisingly the best (this should not be the case, as the later tuners were improved in this area. I am left with the conclusion that the TL 2 is in the best nick/set up and the others are not ? Servicing will be required). The TL 2 also required the FM booster I use to be switched off for some radio stations and on for others (all the other Tuners bar the Revox needed the booster to be left on). However switching from distant to local solved this problem, thus leaving me free to sit and listen rather than running up and down the stairs (the best place for this booster/amplifier was to be placed half way between the aerial [in the roof space] and the downstairs living room, in an upstairs bedroom; just above the living room)....despite this being good exercise it was a pain in the ass.

First up was the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo (from here on the RHTLS), you may wonder why, would it not be more logical to start with the TL 2...well the wiring of the aerial made it more convenient to start with the tuners on the Clearlight Audio Aspeckt rack. There was a definite warm up period of about an hour with the sound becoming less congested and more open. I choose Radio 2 as the test station as it provided the best mix of music plus male and female voices. Unlike other reviews this one is more about the overall sound impression as opposed to a blow by blow comparison of pre selected music...with no access to the Radio 2 schedules I was stuck with their choice of tunes.
Radio 2's tune selection was on form and a number of songs came up that I know including Stevie Wonder-Living for the city. The sound from the RHTLS was strong and rhythmic with excellent sound staging and image placement, however the bass was a bit woolly and the treble slightly rolled. The RHTLS main strength lay in the mid-range and the overall sound was very enjoyable but a little stereo typical of how valves are meant to sound, warm and soft. I switched to the Revox next and was immediately struck at how similar the sound between it and the RHTLS was. However after a few minutes it became clear that while there were some similarities in tonality the bass and treble were different. The Revox had a slightly brighter treble and a slightly more open bass but lacked the magic of the RHTLS mid-range the sound was also slightly flatter lacking the image depth of the valve tuner. In order to illuminate warm up as an issue I left it on and tuned into Radio 2 for later listening.

Close up of the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo and Revox 260S
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners042.jpg

I switched to the TL Stereo (bought recently) and all was well for about 20 minutes until the Gremlins struck again (I will have to banish them from the house, they have been way to active recently) The sound level dropped off...retuning brought it back, but again after about 20 minutes it went again. The volume output had been a bit lower than the RHTLS but not by much so I wasn't overly concerned...looks like it needs serviced. It should be pointed out that in away, vintage tuners (and these Leak's are at least 40 plus years old) are like classic cars in that they seem to need lots of initial TLC, to bring them up to speck.

Sadly I was forced to abandon the TLS and switch attention to the TL 2 (finally) and the TL 3. Both of these tuners need to be used with an external stereo decoder, in this case one by EAR. After moving the aerial cable I hooked the TL 2 and switched it and the decoder on, with about half an hour of warm up I had a listen.....very nice, but the afore mention aerial gain issue raised its head as slight distortion. Radio 2 had the most signal strength and initially I solved this by switching the up stairs amplifier off. After discovering that using the local and distant switch, to solve this I sat back to listen properly and it was clear that this combination was the overall winner. The slight thickness in the sound present on the RHTLS and to a lesser extent the Revox was absent the TL 2 and decoder was open detailed and articulate in the bass, treble and mid-range. However at times I thought I could just detect a slight phasiness in the overall sound...perhaps there is a slight mis-match between the decoder and tuner, nothing another service won't sort out. The TL 3 and decoder was not as good as the TL 2 and decoder pairing, the sound lacked focus and coherence, but not by much. However, and heres that word again a service may solve that.....?

Trough-Line 3 and Trough-Line 2
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners032-1.jpg
Trough-Line 2
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners043.jpg
EAR valve Stereo decoder
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners045.jpg

Despite the things that went wrong I think its clear that when it comes to Leak tuners that the use of a quality internal decoder(not original) will allow a Trough-Line to compete with a good quality tuner like a Revox and while different (and those differences may be your preference) in my opinion the sound is more musical, enjoyable and kinder to modern compressed music and broadcasting quality; than the Revox was in the context of this review. At this stage I should mention that the almost ruthless transparency of the Chapter amplification, surprisingly favored the valve tuner....I had thought it would be the Revox. The lack of any kind of noise in the Chapter Audio amplification will reveal any present from the source, and while the Revox was more *silent* as is the norm with solid state and the Trough-Line had slightly more as was evident from putting ones ear to the speaker, background hiss being more obvious; the valve tuner was however to my ears better.

As I like to be fair before posting this review I wanted to give the Revox another listen, allowing it a longer warm up period so I listened to it again the following day. As I suspected it was better some of the slight thickness in the sound was gone and everything was more open and detailed. However I also wanted to give the TL 2 and EAR decoder another listen....I made a significant discovery in doing this. I decided to move the Leak tuner to the main rack, from the book case it normally sits on, in doing this the 3m connecting lead I normally use to hook the multiplex output to the decoder, was replaced by the lead that is hard wired into the EAR (nothing special), I took a listen and my mouth hit the floor. The slight phasiness to the sound was gone. A very three dimensional sound reached my ears. A track from the new Pren tenders album was playing and Miss Hyde stood in the room, her band playing around her. Tight articulate bass underpinning the song, I switched quickly to the Revox the sound was two dimensional in comparison lacking the colour richness and quality of the TL 2. Up next was the Kinks and Waterloo Sunset (Radio2 was really ticking all my boxes today), the sound was fabulous as was Michael McDonald's vocals on the following track from the Doobie Brothers. Ian Dury also sounded wonderful during Hit me with your rhythm stick...heady stuff.

Trough-Line 2 and EAR Stereo decoder placed on the Clearlight Aspeckt rack
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners046.jpg
Rear view of the Trough-Line 2 and Ear decoder...note short wire which carries the mutiplex output signal into the decoder
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners047.jpg

Presenters voices lacked a degree of chestiness that was present on the Revox and the other Trough-Line tuners. Studio sounds stood clearly revealed as did a semblance of the Studio acoustic; not much but enough to paint a three D image with the presenters having their own space. In many ways what I was hearing was similar to the difference in sound between vinyl and digital, but in fairness both of these formats have more musical information present in the signal than FM radio....however the analogy is a good one.

I thought that I might have to rewrite my conclusion after listening again on day two and indeed I am but only to reinforce my findings that the TL 2 and EAR decoder combination when connected via a short lead (do remember this factor) offer the best radio I have heard so far (I have not heard the Day Sequera, Naim Nait radio or some of the other well liked radios) so I can't say this is as good as it gets but for me I am happy. I can't, however help but wonder what a top flight serviced Leak set, say from the workshop of Graham Tricker might sound like...ummm? Would this be much better ?

I think its clear that the TL3 and TL Stereo I also used during this test were not up to par. Will they be as good as the TL2 plus EAR stereo decoder ? I suspect the answer is more than likely no, but after a service it will be interesting to do this comparison again....as they say there is more to come. It is also important to say that if you are going to buy a Leak tuner then perhaps it might be better to buy one thats fully serviced and set up, rather than doing the E-bay thing (unless you get and absolute bargain....do such things exist on E-bay ?), to guarantee you the best performance. Another thing that is clear, regardless of the source of your purchase, you will need an excellent aerial set up and one that allows tweaking to suit a vintage tuners needs and particularly a Trough-Lines. My aerial set up covers this, but could be better and it is probably because I am in line of sight of the broadcast mast that I * just* get away with it...you have been warned.


Regards D S D L


Edit No part of this review can be reproduced without written permission...content is copyrighted to ...NK

DSJR
27-05-2009, 12:51
Wow, another great user review...

I suspect the EAR decoder has its line-out impedances set for modern amps, wheres the Leaks, like the Quad FM2 and 3, may prefer the amp to offer 50K Ohms at least, but not knowing your amps at all, I cannot say.

I must say that I'm generally disappointed with FM radio these days on the tuners I have (FM2, FM3, Cambridge T55 and Arcam Delta 80). The Cambridge, in some ways, stands head and shoulders above the others in reproduction of reverb and atmosphere, but splatters badly on over-done sssibilant modulation (a big problem with modern compressed broadcasts). If I ever get funds, I'd like to have it re-capped and re-setup to see if alignment can fix it, although it was a slight weakness when new.


Into the AVI's 20K Ohms, the Quads either sound boring as hell (FM2) or just dull (FM3). The Arcam sounded brighter but two dimensional as well. With the Crofts 100K Ohms, the Arcam sounds much more comfortable, so I ought to dig the Quads out of the loft and try them again..

Thanks again Neil. The Revox I should never have sold was the A76, which was soooo good all round (long story).

Spectral Morn
27-05-2009, 13:30
No problem Dave...I enjoy doing these reviews. Its funny about the cable...it had not dawned on me that sitting the decoder close to the main system and using the tuner out in the open would be an issue, but it very much was....the 3m of cable ruined the sound. I should point out that this isn't the interconnect to the pre-amplifier but the cable that carries the multiplex information.

The Chapter audio kit is not particularly fussy about what is hooked up to it but is pretty ruthless about revealing any sonic short comings both in terms of performance and recording sound quality. However in saying that when things are optimal, its very good. I have found it interesting taking a break from valve amplification....and will do a write up about going back to valves in due course.


Regards D S D L

DSJR
27-05-2009, 13:40
P.S. Re above - the cable supplied by Tim for the decoder isn't just an ordinary patch-cable it seems to me. I know that the decoder info is at 19 and 38KHz, but even so, a thoughtfully specified wire (probably a small patch cord in truth) may be better for this than a chunkier mega-strand jobbie...

How much was the EAR decoder and do you know if it's still available?

Spectral Morn
27-05-2009, 13:59
P.S. Re above - the cable supplied by Tim for the decoder isn't just an ordinary patch-cable it seems to me. I know that the decoder info is at 19 and 38KHz, but even so, a thoughtfully specified wire (probably a small patch cord in truth) may be better for this than a chunkier mega-strand jobbie...

How much was the EAR decoder and do you know if it's still available?

Hi Dave

The EAR decoder was bought along with the Trough-Line 3 (one in the oak box, though I have had my Trough-Line 2 in this box as well) S/H from a dealer in Scotland Retro-Reproductions...I can't remember exactly what the cost was..perhaps about £250 for both or there abouts. I really wanted the decoder and I quite liked the oak sleeve, even though it was an owner custom one, and not an original Leak sleeve (the wood is nice...however until Chris (The Grand Wazoo) said it was oak I didn't know that).

The EAR decoder is no longer available. I think it was available ready built or as a kit...I suspect this one might be a kit, but I am not sure; not having both to compare. I haven't seen another one offered S/H and I have been looking but not that hard so they may be more common than I think.

Regards D S D L

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
27-05-2009, 19:13
Hi Neil

Great write up, as always. Really like your style. Only wish I could be as creative with words.

Will have to give it another read through later ( on nights at the mo ) though you have wetted my appetite to the possibility of dabbling my toe into the Tuner pool.

Andy - SDDW

Spectral Morn
27-05-2009, 22:48
Thank you Andy. I appreciate the comments about my writing style...its nice to know that people think I have one, and that they enjoy reading my words.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
28-05-2009, 14:54
Hi Guys

I have been playing around with interconnects Audio Note ANV and Kimber KCAG mainly just to see if any of my findings would change with a swap of cables.

Well in regard to the Revox no, but with the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo the answer is yes. Having re-read my review I now feel that perhaps I damned it with to faint praise. The overall findings haven't changed the Trough-Line 2 plus EAR valve stereo decoder still give the best sound (changing interconnects here does not change these results, regardless of connecting cable used it is excellent), but the Rodney Hanna gives more with different cables.

Front view. Tuning indicator light on far right of fascia is not original to this Leak but a Rodney Hanna addition.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners050-1.jpg
Rear view
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners051.jpg

With the Audio Note ANV (two .5 m coupled together) the sound is more open and detailed with less thickness. The warmth I reported on, is reduced, its still a sweet sound and still musical, but more detail is present and the gap between it and the TL2 +decoder is narrowed. Using the Kimber KCAG makes things slightly to forward and adds a slight edge to treble detail. Once again (for what ever reason) cables make a difference/improvement and in this application I prefer the sound of the Audio Note ANV.

I have been listening to GF Handle on Radio 3 Richard The Lion Heart, this afternoon and I must admit I like Handle but am not so keen on high pitched almost Castrato vocals (female in this case, but may have been written for a Castrato originally), the sound is beguiling and magical. String tone is excellent and the harpsichord pure magic, where it falls behind the TL2 is in the dimension of the acoustic and the clarity/coherence the older Leak tuner creates, but its close.

Also of interest is that the sensitivity/selectivity of this tuner is much better than the non-modified Leaks. The Motorolla decoder Rodney used needs less signal to give silent performance...excellent.

Some of you might be wondering who Rodney Hanna is ? well he is a very talented audio (and lots of other things as well) repair man who builds and mods things in his spare time for his own pleasure, and a select few. I left the Leak in for repair/servicing and got back a thing of magic. Rodney is one of a rare breed, he can look at a circuit and not only understand it, but be able to analyse how it works, if it could be better and know how to do that. Well he has certainly worked wonders on a Leak Trough-Line Stereo which had not worked in very many years (the condition I got it in). Is this a product you could buy....ummm, I don't know. I call it the Rodney Hanna TL Stereo because that is what it now is. Being a modest man Rodney would no doubt say he just fixed it...IMHO he had done more, much more.

Not being it great cosmetic condition I have been working on that aspect and have sorted out the black strip below the display (using a Paper Mate W10 Black Permanent Marker rather than black enamel paint as I had planned to. It needs several applications to give a good black), next up is the legends on the fascia. Anyone have a suggestion for this, something better than Lettraset....ideas welcome. I have replaced the metal sleeve it came with for the black wood Leak sleeve that came with another Trough-Line Stereo tuner....I prefer this look.

One last thought/piece of information. Ventilation is important, these tuners get warm (lots of valves inside) so please make sure you allow plenty of air to circulate around them.


Regards D S D L

Mike Reed
28-05-2009, 19:44
A very interesting review, Neil, and very difficult to A-B test with any accuracy, I imagine.

Guess you have at least a six element array within, say, ten miles of a decent transmitting station, as I remember that my Troughline 3 would only perform properly with an eight element Antiference on the roof of my student flat in Canterbury (landlord never noticed!). My Revox (not yours; maybe an A76?) was more sensitive.

However, my current 01 needs all the signal one can squeeze into it, whereas my Technics will sound reasonable on a bit of string. Seriously thinking of getting a Ron Smith Galaxie again, but not sure if the narrow 60s chimney will cope with it.

Again, good work! (would loooooooove to put your TR. 2 against my 01 to see what it's all about!!!)

Spectral Morn
28-05-2009, 20:16
Hi Mike

Actually the aerial is not that elaborate, its a semi circle two element aerial which is open at the front. Its mounted in the loft and the low loss cable passes down under the floor of a bedroom where the cable goes into an amplifier out again and then down into the living room. I guess the cables probably about 30m long ish.

Some of the Leak's need the amplifier on and some don't. The Rodney Hanna tuner works well either way but the Trough-Line 2 needs the amplifier on for most stations bar Radio2, which has the most signal. One thing the Revox does well is work with very low signal levels....I can get Manx (Isle of Man) radio with it... However when it comes to sound quality the Revox while very good is beaten by the Trough-Line 2 and EAR decoder, and as I discovered today, with a cable change the Rodney Hanna Leak now beats the Revox by a bigger margin than it did before. Still not as good as the TL2 but getting there.

As to a tuner bake off...that would be great but I don't live anywhere near you. I must admit that living were I do...I miss the chance to meet up with you guys and do such things...it would be fun.

Glad you enjoyed the review.


Regards D S D L

aquapiranha
29-05-2009, 23:25
Hi Neil. Great write up! I particularly like the "look" of the Revox, I have always liked their industrial, form form follows function appearance. I have a yagi beam antenna that has been assembled but never connected if you want it? yours for the price of postage ( I would exceed my baggage allowance otherwise...)

Steve

Oh....nice!...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Revox-B-760-Tuner_W0QQitemZ120427185322QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_A udioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Tuners?hash=item1c 0a0504aa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1690%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A3%7C294%3A50

Spectral Morn
30-05-2009, 10:13
Hi Steve


Love the look of the old Revox too. That B760 looks very nice.

At the time I got the B260-S tuner I could have bought the matching Revox tape deck but compared to my Nakamichi it sounded to warm and cuddly and lacking in openness, not by much but enough to put me off. I should have got it.... It also came with a remote which works the tuner, as well as the tape deck.

See PM for aerial...


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
10-06-2009, 23:20
EAR FM STEREO VALVE DECODER


Hi Guys

Just because I like completeness, I have taken the opportunity (during a system swop around) to take some photos of the EAR decoder. The unit would appear to have been modified by one (original ?) of its owners (modifications similar to those done to the Leak Trough-Line 3, bought at the same time as the decoder). A cork mat has been glued to the bottom of the case, a wood bottom plate added to the bottom. The original mains output has been moved ? (I think), the original outlet has the multiplex connecting cable exiting through it and a new IEC socket has been constructed from miliput (an apoxy made up of 2 sticks of plastercine type material which is blended and when hard like a ceramic). The work is crude in nature, but the new fascia is more attractive than the original plain metal front.

The 2 EEC 83 valves are Gold Aero an American company that did extensive testing and matching of Chinese sourced valves 20 years ago (I don't think Gold Aero are still trading).

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators011.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators005.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators006.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators008.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Rothwellattenuators010.jpg

Regardless of the physical changes the unit works well and matches the Leak Trough-Line 2, better than the other Leak's with a multiplex output.

The interesting question is was this an EAR supplied/made unit or an EAR supplied kit ? I don't know.


Regards D S D L

Adrian B
22-06-2009, 22:04
Hi DSDL

where might Rodney Hanna be found?

Adrian

The Grand Wazoo
23-06-2009, 08:05
Neil,
I don't mean to pass disparaging remarks, & I'm sure the sound of the Trough/Ear decoder combination is sublime, but I've got to say that the lump sticking out of the back of the Ear with the mains connection on it is a proper 'Arse Biscuit'!!!

Marco
23-06-2009, 08:16
Indeed, Chris. It is a veritable jobby amongst jobbies! :lol:

As protuberant abominations go, it wins first prize !! WTF?? :mental:

Marco.

Spectral Morn
24-06-2009, 08:09
Neil,
I don't mean to pass disparaging remarks, & I'm sure the sound of the Trough/Ear decoder combination is sublime, but I've got to say that the lump sticking out of the back of the Ear with the mains connection on it is a proper 'Arse Biscuit'!!!


That it is.... This was as it is when I bought it. I assume the previous owner so taken with the idea of mains cable upgrades built this to facilitate that option. Its made from miliput which is a form of clay that hardens like an epoxy glue. You get to sticks of clay, one grey, one buff. One is the glue, and ones the hardener. You mix, shape and finish, and your left with something very workable. I use it to fill the cracks you can get in models, when joints don't meet together cleanly.

The previous owner could have done a better job and cleaned and filled/sanded this down to match the dimensions of the metal work(when painted you would not have known), but very obviously hasn't, hence its a dogs dinner visually. However its tough and durable and isn't likely to fall off.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
24-06-2009, 08:14
Hi DSDL

where might Rodney Hanna be found?

Adrian


Hi Adrian


You will have a PM.



Regards D S D L

Adrian B
24-06-2009, 08:47
Thanks, but where will I have a PM? It's not in my inbox on this site. I suppose the will suggests sometime in the future

(are there rules about short posts like this that clog up threads?)

Adrian

Spectral Morn
24-06-2009, 08:55
Thanks, but where will I have a PM? It's not in my inbox on this site. I suppose the will suggests sometime in the future

(are there rules about short posts like this that clog up threads?)

Adrian

Sorry Adrian


It will appear at the top of the page your viewing (when I send it) relating to your name in the top right corner. I am getting ready to go out in awhile so will send it to you later (this morning though)


Regards D S D L

Adrian B
26-06-2009, 12:51
Got it thanks

Spectral Morn
25-08-2009, 21:50
COMING SOON TO SOG


A FLOCK OF TUNERS 2 - THE JAPANESE ARE COMING !


Any more info and I am afraid extermination would have to follow. Watch SOG, carefully;):)for this follow up review.




Regards D S D L

REM
26-08-2009, 10:04
Ooh goody, let's start the guessing/speculation...

Yamaha CT7000??

Pioneer, but which model???

Sansui?????

Got to be an all 70s goodness fest, Chrome, Lights, Meters, Knobs bring it on, sock it to me, baby yeah:smoking::smoking:

Spectral Morn
26-08-2009, 18:40
Ooh goody, let's start the guessing/speculation...

Yamaha CT7000??

Pioneer, but which model???

Sansui?????

Got to be an all 70s goodness fest, Chrome, Lights, Meters, Knobs bring it on, sock it to me, baby yeah:smoking::smoking:

There are indeed VU meters, weighted tuning knobs, brushed front panels and 1970's is indeed the decade....but thats your lot for now ;)


Regards D S D L

Barry
26-08-2009, 18:43
There are indeed VU meters, weighted tuning knobs, brushed front panels and 1970's is indeed the decade....but thats your lot for now ;)


Regards D S D L

Neil, You little tease! :eyebrows:

Spectral Morn
26-08-2009, 18:46
Neil, You little tease! :eyebrows:

Hi Barry

Patience is required I am afraid, its taking a wee bit of time to bring this one together...I am nearly there..;)


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
26-08-2009, 18:49
There are indeed VU meters, weighted tuning knobs, brushed front panels and 1970's is indeed the decade....but thats your lot for now ;)


Regards D S D L

Tuning knob S...........?
Front panel S.............?

Plural?
............get the flock out of here.

Spit it out man, Call yourself a Dalek? - You're nothing but a dustbin with ideas above your (FM)station.

Spectral Morn
26-08-2009, 18:53
Tuning knob S...........?
Front panel S.............?

Plural?
............get the flock out of here.

Spit it out man, Call yourself a Dalek? - You're nothing but a dustbin with ideas above your (FM)station.


Hi Chris

Plural indeed......Will The Leak Trough-Line still be King ?..........:scratch:;)


Regards D S D L

DSJR
26-08-2009, 20:00
Wot u need is a Luxman T-12 - blows the pants off all comers for sound quality.......;)

Spectral Morn
26-08-2009, 21:52
Wot u need is a Luxman T-12 - blows the pants off all comers for sound quality.......;)

Are you offering one for the write up Dave ? I have selected my participants and the first will arrive this week, the rest in a few weeks...and then let battle commence.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
27-08-2009, 11:44
Update....sort off :eyebrows:

The first two are now here................ Nice flywheel action..... Heck that one works without an aerial connected...WOW....;):)

And fixed direct out in one case does not sound as good as via the variable output..........very interesting...

Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
27-08-2009, 12:45
Update....sort off :eyebrows:

The first two are now here................ Nice flywheel action..... Heck that one works without an aerial connected...WOW....;):)

And fixed direct out in one case does not sound as good as via the variable output..........very interesting...

Regards D S D L

Now you're begining to narrow it down a bit!!
Fixed & variable outputs.........hmmm.

I've got an idea it could be.........
.......Nah, I'm not telling!

Spectral Morn
27-08-2009, 13:31
Now you're begining to narrow it down a bit!!
Fixed & variable outputs.........hmmm.

I've got an idea it could be.........
.......Nah, I'm not telling!

Most good ones in the 70's had that arrangement................:eyebrows:;)


Regards D S D L

DSJR
27-08-2009, 16:52
Are you offering one for the write up Dave ? I have selected my participants and the first will arrive this week, the rest in a few weeks...and then let battle commence.


Regards D S D L

I wish I had one - my colleague bought one in 1978 or so, kept it for 15 years, sold it on and bought it back several years on. As far as I know, he still has it, feeding a Meridian A-D converter and then to the old top Krell CD player with loads of (then new) digital inputs..

Spectral Morn
27-08-2009, 18:06
I wish I had one - my colleague bought one in 1978 or so, kept it for 15 years, sold it on and bought it back several years on. As far as I know, he still has it, feeding a Meridian A-D converter and then to the old top Krell CD player with loads of (then new) digital inputs..

On well...............:(


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
27-08-2009, 18:11
Most good ones in the 70's had that arrangement................:eyebrows:;)


Regards D S D L

So I was right - you've narrowed it down to good ones!?

Spectral Morn
27-08-2009, 18:12
So I was right - you've narrowed it down to good ones!?


Well I live in hope.....:eyebrows:;):)



Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
16-09-2009, 10:52
So what about these imminent Japanese then Neil?
Is there any news?
Are there any more of those little teasing nuggets you'd like to throw our way so we can speculate even more?

Tell us .......something!!!!

Spectral Morn
16-09-2009, 12:38
So what about these imminent Japanese then Neil?
Is there any news?
Are there any more of those little teasing nuggets you'd like to throw our way so we can speculate even more?

Tell us .......something!!!!

Hi Chris

I have three now two to follow probably have them this week. Alas one a Sony 5150 is the victim of an E-Bay seller who didn't give a damn about anything, crap packaging, crap communications, crap everything and then even before I had said much about the shockingly bad service etc attacked me personally. To say he got a lesson on how to sell, all aspects of retailing, packaging, customer care etc is putting it mildly. Bottom line is he just could not be bothered, so why bother at all. E-Bay would be better with out him and his possibly fake feed back. On the basis of my experience I just don't see how it could be real.

I always ask for a certain level of packaging and offer advice just in case the seller doesnt know much about such matters. I did this with this guy as a message along with the payment. He didn't reply to me for days. I had also asked him not to send the tuner if he could not get it to me by a certain date as I was going away for awhile. He sent it anyway. His vague messages were no help at all he promised a tracking number but I never got it. He then said tough about the packaging I can't afford better. Sorry but you pack to suit the needs of the goods and if you have to you do it as pick up only or charge extra for the packaging....bloody simple. No not this waster. He just didn't give a damn simple as that.

Tuner arrived in a flimsy post box (thin card not suitable for heavy item)with virtually no packing round it the box penetrated and the wood case damaged at the front edges, both side impact crush damage. Amazingly the rest of it on visual inspection was okay but its sound was distorted and last night after a wee bit of a fiddle to see if the sound issue was perhaps due to aerial overload the left channel died. So its now obvious that it has been damaged in transit or was never working, based on everything else so far I am tending to view that as being the case, but only the tosser who listed it knows.

I suspect he won't be replying to my last E-Mail/message. Frankly I want an apology from him for his totally unprofessional conduct and personal attack on me and while he has offered a refund (which doesn't solve the other issues), by the time I pack it properly and post it to him because it wasn't very dear it won't be worth my while doing it plus paypal will no doubt remove a fee on the refund.

Depending on what happens next I will be revealing all this guys details on AOS so as to warn you all not to do business with this guy. To be fair though I want to give him the opportunity to come clean and apologise to me...this may modify what I do next.

I have photos of the packaging + all my communications with him.

So no Sony...it may be fixable but I don't know what is wrong with it. The display bulbs and stereo indicator bulb are easy enough to sort out but the rest :doh::( I just don't know.

Sorry for the rant but I hate this kind of thing...I told him if he had been my staff and had treated one of my shops customers like he has me i would have put him on a warning or sacked him.


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
16-09-2009, 16:40
That's a shame, because, apart from all your grief, it'd be nice to have heard how the Sony fared.
They have a good reputation and can be currently found for very little money.

DSJR
16-09-2009, 16:45
The Sony 5950 (which replaced the 5150 I think) was a sleeper of a reference tuner as I recall, which easily competed with the Pioneers of the time, but wasn't as big a seller for us. Even a friend who bought the lovely old 5650 amp bought a Pioneer 9500 to go with it (an awsome tuner on radio 3 I remember).

Spectral Morn
16-09-2009, 16:49
That's a shame, because, apart from all your grief, it'd be nice to have heard how the Sony fared.
They have a good reputation and can be currently found for very little money.

The left channel issue is probably a break in the board or a dry joint as I tried it again this afternoon and the left channel was back. However the sound was still phasey and slightly distorted. Question is if this guy had packed properly would it still be like that? :(:steam:

Don't rule the Sony out i'll get Rodney Hanna to have a look at it and I can add it later.

To shed more light on things the brands involved in the shoot out are as follows Akai, Pioneer, Kenwood, Sansui.:smoking:

You will have to wait for more info ;)


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
17-09-2009, 10:46
Hi Guys and Chris


The next contender has arrived (very well packed..excellent). A moment of concern about the FM/AM/Auto selector was solved with an allen key, it now works. Sound quality okay no issues so far looks fantastic though in the flesh not quite as heavy as the pictures suggest.

Anyone know anything about this one ? So far I can find nothing out about it. I liked the look/style of it, so I obtained it...maybe its a sleeper too, or just a pretty tuner(beauty in the eye of the beholder and all).

So Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you on her first AOS coming out the....

AKAI AT580.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/3043454743_5dd9f3126a.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/3044290336_0a337dc1a3.jpg

Google brought me a wee bit more info today..go figure. The Akai AT580 dates from 1973/1974 was Akai's top tuner and sold back then for $400...a lot back in the early 70's. Thats as much as I can find out. Any more info sources out there. The usual suspects, Tuner info network and Big audio Ideas are a blank.



Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
17-09-2009, 13:58
I hope you'll be investing in a chest wig & medallion before you try turning that tuning knob!

..........oh, & one of those watches with a really wide leather strap

Spectral Morn
17-09-2009, 14:42
I hope you'll be investing in a chest wig & medallion before you try turning that tuning knob!

..........oh, & one of those watches with a really wide leather strap


:lol::lol::lol::lol: Indeed ;). Just been cleaning it up and its in very good nick for its age. A few marks on the top plate, but the fascia and wood ends are very good. So far I am pleased with this one. Sound quality thats another thing...ummmmmm we shall see.

Chris do you know anything about this tuner ? Or a link to a web site about Akai ?


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
17-09-2009, 20:35
Neil,

Just what does this mean...................?

Hi Guys and Chris


I know I asked Mick Parry how he knew I wasn't female, but I never thought anyone believed me.
Hehehe............

Do you know? I never had an Akai & I don't know a single thing about anything they ever made.

I can't find anything on this model with a look at the sites I know or with a quick Gurgle. There's a (very) ropey photo on vintage-tuner.com
http://www.vintage-tuner.com/files1/akai.htm
I'll keep looking - I may have something in hard copy.

I'd say it looks in good nick, but I recognise those photos from one of the sites I've just seen!

I'm interested to hear how it fairs against whatever else you've been & got hold of & presumably the Truffie

DSJR
17-09-2009, 20:49
If another Sony, try for an ST3950, 5950SD and, I think, the 2150 from the mid seventies..

Spectral Morn
17-09-2009, 20:49
Neil,

Just what does this mean...................?



I know I asked Mick Parry how he knew I wasn't female, but I never thought anyone believed me.
Hehehe............

Do you know? I never had an Akai & I don't know a single thing about anything they ever made.

I can't find anything on this model with a look at the sites I know or with a quick Gurgle. There's a (very) ropey photo on vintage-tuner.com
http://www.vintage-tuner.com/files1/akai.htm
I'll keep looking - I may have something in hard copy.

I'd say it looks in good nick, but I recognise those photos from one of the sites I've just seen!

I'm interested to hear how it fairs against whatever else you've been & got hold of & presumably the Truffie

Hi Chris

I just meant in general and to you specifically, in hope you might be able to tell me more about it. $400 back in 73 was a small fortune I would have though. Build quality is very good and there is shielding inside and all copper plating elsewhere including the case lid which is black on one side and unpainted on the other.

Yes your right the photos are from flicker(nice collection that guy has:)), having just got it I didn't have time to take photos. The one I have is actually slightly better than that one, as it has a few age marks on the fascia. The one I have just obtained has a few marks on the walnut end at the right side...but very little is wrong in total. I am well pleased with the item and the seller. He packed it very well and followed my advice. I am only waiting now for the Sansui and its a very good one ;)


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
17-09-2009, 20:54
If another Sony, try for an ST3950, 5950SD and, I think, the 2150 from the mid seventies..

Hi Dave

I will keep my eyes open, but to be honest unless its for a few quid I won't be able to do it. I only got these to facilitate this project and then at least some will go up for sale after being checked over fully etc at some point.

The Sony 5150 may well be fixable, and as it cost virtually nothing I am not panicking about it. The lack of cost to it, is probably why the toss pot who solid it didn't give a stuff about it. I still haven't heard from him :steam:


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
17-09-2009, 21:02
I just meant in general and to you specifically, in hope you might be able to tell me more about it

I know, I was just pulling your wire a bit!!
The Sansui sounds ...................interesting!!!

Spectral Morn
17-09-2009, 21:09
I know, I was just pulling your wire a bit!!
The Sansui sounds ...................interesting!!!

It is, bit of a sleeper according to a certain sight. Its reviewed and the top one isn't.

Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
17-09-2009, 23:13
I just realised, I told you a lie!
Way back, a very long time ago, I did buy something made by Akai
And shame on me for forgetting it, because it was a tuner! I've got no idea what it was though. My brain must have blotted out the details because it was such a soul-less piece of umbala.
I suspect the one you've just got is a whole lot better than that one was though.

Spectral Morn
18-09-2009, 14:25
Photos of the actual Akai AT850 as in my system now, as I type. Radio 2 on with Argent playing (God gave rock in roll to you).

The display on this one is a different colour to the one of the flickr sight....go figure.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Kenwood7300tuner005.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Kenwood7300tuner006.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Kenwood7300tuner007.jpg

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Kenwood7300tuner009.jpg

Regards D S D L

Alex_UK
18-09-2009, 16:02
The display on this one is a different colour to the one of the flickr sight....go figure.

But so much nicer in blue! Maybe someone modded it? Looks very nice - and goes quite well with your CD player! Look forward to hearing how it sounds...

Spectral Morn
18-09-2009, 16:07
But so much nicer in blue! Maybe someone modded it? Looks very nice - and goes quite well with your CD player! Look forward to hearing how it sounds...

I suspect its the other way round. I like blue displays. This Akai was apparently only used for 25 hours during its 35+ years of being owned(hardly run in then;))according to the seller. I have no reason to doubt it as overall condition while not perfect is very good, and unlike the seller of the Sony5150 this guy was excellent in every way. I am listening to AM at the moment...very good indeed.


Regards D S D L

The Grand Wazoo
18-09-2009, 17:27
Yes, I thought the green one looked a bit Sansui-ish.

Some folks like to put blue foil on the inside of their tuning scales because they like the cool blue of some of the Marantz tuners, but I think the Akai's were blue during that period.

Spectral Morn
28-09-2009, 17:30
Sony 5150 now replaced by a mid price Jap rival. This brand is well loved on this forum ;) After a fair bit of sniffing about the net, it seems to be well liked, but not mentioned in dispatches often elsewhere.....ummmmmmmmmm. We shall see, it has hi-Blend, If selection, volume control, two VU meters, wood case (love a nice wood case) and looks the part.

Sansui tuner will be with me later this week, vendor was ill hence late dispatch...not a problem as I was kept up-to-date on all developments.

The tuner battle begins end of this week...watch this space for more.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
19-11-2009, 10:46
Sony 5150 now replaced by a mid price Jap rival. This brand is well loved on this forum ;) After a fair bit of sniffing about the net, it seems to be well liked, but not mentioned in dispatches often elsewhere.....ummmmmmmmmm. We shall see, it has hi-Blend, If selection, volume control, two VU meters, wood case (love a nice wood case) and looks the part.

Sansui tuner will be with me later this week, vendor was ill hence late dispatch...not a problem as I was kept up-to-date on all developments.

The tuner battle begins end of this week...watch this space for more.


Regards D S D L


Hi Guys

Famous last words that.

This has been several months in the planning and not without a lot of hassle. Watch this space for future developments.

It will happen, just not for a while yet.


Regards D S D L

SteveW
19-11-2009, 19:55
have stuck two bits of wood on the ends of my Kremlin.
Maybe its an acquired taste.

Spectral Morn
19-11-2009, 21:24
have stuck two bits of wood on the ends of my Kremlin.
Maybe its an acquired taste.


Its probably an age thing. When I first got into audio...nice wood end cheeks were the thing. Marantz, Sony, Pioneer, Akai all had them and UK kit was black and boring (sounded good mostly as did quite a lot of the Jap kit too). Post a photo of your Kremlin ;)


Regards D S D L

SteveW
19-11-2009, 21:48
Its probably an age thing. When I first got into audio...nice wood end cheeks were the thing. Marantz, Sony, Pioneer, Akai all had them and UK kit was black and boring (sounded good mostly as did quite a lot of the Jap kit too). Post a photo of your Kremlin ;)


Regards D S D L

I know Neil. Think we must be 'of an age' !

I had a rather wonderful Sony pre-amp in the early 80's...sold it for buttons with a quad 405 along with a pair of Wharfedale E70's.
The Sony had wooden cheeks..but would love to have it again, I suspect in the right system it was rather good. Not sadly in that one !

Spectral Morn
27-11-2009, 15:10
Hi Guys


Wee update on the forth coming Tuner comparison write up. As you all know Art of Sound prides its self on championing bargains be they new or S/H well I am pleased to say that I am now in the position to clear up whether or not a rather nice Japanese tuner from Kenwood is the giant killer it is said to be.

Now I am not questioning the findings of the Tuner information Network (TIN), but I always like/want to confirm such comments for my self. Basically two rather plain tuners from the early 90's are heralded as being pretty much the best you can get for the least amount of money on the net or anywhere else. These are said to be better than anything from Mcintosh, Sequera, Revox, Accuphase (not, all but most) and a host of other highly regarded tuners as well.

I managed to obtain one a few weeks ago, and now thanks to another contact I have been able to get the other, so not only will I be able to confirm that the number 10 position tuner on the TIN is as good as it is said to be, but also that its slightly later brother is as good as it is; which is to have the same sonic performance as the other.

So ladies and gentleman I give you the Kenwood KT 5020 and Kenwood KT 3050. I must say that I am very pleased to be able to compare these tuners as way to much misinformation is out there about whats good or not (not I hasten to add from TIN), and way to much money is being asked for tuners that frankly are not that good.

Of course die hard collectors will always fight to possess something for its self and not for its performance, but as AOS is about performance over looks (nice if you can get both) it is my hope to confirm and rate these units within my own (growing) collection and against the Leak Trough-line tuners that I have written about in the past. Frankly people pay way to much for those too imho, especially recently. So are these the bargains they are said to be ?...watch this space.

So there you have it considering the problems I have been having recently some good news....let the fight commence.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/meridianG095HomeCinemasystemalli-2.jpg

Photo taken with the help of my new (to me) Slik M88 tripod...thanks NormMc



Regards D S D L

aquapiranha
27-11-2009, 17:50
Neil. your dedication to the pursuit of truth to the benefit of others (and yourself of course) is an example to us all! I look forward to the final result.

Thanks, Steve.

:)

Spectral Morn
27-11-2009, 18:36
Neil. your dedication to the pursuit of truth to the benefit of others (and yourself of course) is an example to us all! I look forward to the final result.

Thanks, Steve.

:)

Thank you Steve for your kind words.


Regards D S D L

Darrenw
01-12-2009, 20:23
How's my old .... sounding neil?

rgds
Darren

Spectral Morn
01-12-2009, 22:03
How's my old..... sounding neil?

rgds
Darren

Hi Darren

I was going to keep that a secret until the write up begins...shortly. Its big..I had to take the feet off it to fit it into the rack. Great packaging you used, it protected it well, so it arrived in one piece and everything works. Lets keep its identity a secret for now ;)

Thank you for all your help and like Ali with the Accuphase, I have recently discovered a few of the tuners I have been testing have responded better to some interconnects than others. So I have been working my way through the test tuners to sort out what likes what; before I start the comparison side of the review.

I am quite excited by what I have heard so far and I think there will be a few upsets....;)



Regards D S D L

hifinutt
30-01-2010, 19:29
i have used cyrus tuners for some years but recently put a psxr power supply on my FMX cyrus tuner with considerable improvement , adding in a coherant 3d cable interconnect also made a good improvement. i am so impressed with the sound now, real immediacy and presence

Nick_G
16-03-2010, 18:24
Any updates on the Kenwoods Neil?

Interesting that the Tuner Information Center write-up for the KT-3050 has no mention of RDS, which the one in your pic clearly has, as well as having an 'L' prefix. Presumably this is because it's the European version?

Spectral Morn
18-03-2010, 18:37
Any updates on the Kenwoods Neil?

Interesting that the Tuner Information Center write-up for the KT-3050 has no mention of RDS, which the one in your pic clearly has, as well as having an 'L' prefix. Presumably this is because it's the European version?

Hi Nick

This has been a massive task, and to be honest I have underestimated the length of time required to do it. I am working on the Kenwoods at the moment. Yes I assume the American models don't have L or RDS. I am now a member of the Tuners Yahoo group(related to TIC) so at some point I will ask about this.

The TIC site is very US centric (nothing wrong with that) so in many ways what I am about, in a totally subjective way, is to give a UK centric viewpoint to this subject.

The other problem (though its only a problem depending on your point of view..ask my wife;)) is the increasing pile of Jap tuners in my upstairs listening room. This project has grown as tuners have come my way. I can't close the door to new ones, but I am restricting myself, to important ones.

Thank you for your interest.

Regards D S D L

Nick_G
19-03-2010, 21:45
Hi Nick

This has been a massive task, and to be honest I have underestimated the length of time required to do it. I am working on the Kenwoods at the moment. Yes I assume the American models don't have L or RDS. I am now a member of the Tuners Yahoo group(related to TIC) so at some point I will ask about this.

The TIC site is very US centric (nothing wrong with that) so in many ways what I am about, in a totally subjective way, is to give a UK centric viewpoint to this subject.

The other problem (though its only a problem depending on your point of view..ask my wife;)) is the increasing pile of Jap tuners in my upstairs listening room. This project has grown as tuners have come my way. I can't close the door to new ones, but I am restricting myself, to important ones.

Thank you for your interest.

Regards D S D L

Hi Neil and thanks for the reply.

I'm a DXer as well as an audiophile and I know the Kenwood KT-6040 is well-regarded amongst DX circles, as well as apparently having superb audio quality. I was interested as to how the 3050 might have compared with the 6040 but you may not be familiar with it. The 3050 is from the same era, about 1993.

I already own an Onkyo T-4970 (superb DXer, good sound) and a Sony XDR-F1HD (fantastic DXer, but sounds like an MP3), and I'm thinking of getting a third tuner once I've sold a few things on eBay. I can just imagine the wife's reaction to that, hehe ;). I think we're in the same boat there, although I don't think I'd be able to get away with accumulating a pile! :lolsign:

The main contender at the moment is a Sony ST-S770ES as I have an old ST-SA3ES which had a lovely analogue-style rotary knob, much preferable to push-button tuning. The 770 has very similar but superior ergonomics as you can access all functions directly - with the SA3ES some were only accessible via the menu system. From what I've been able to find, it seems that it may be the best ES tuner that Sony ever made, even better than the SA5ES which followed several years later. Do you know this model? Some pics here:

http://hifi-leipzig.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1009_Sony-ST-S770ES-Highend-Tuner.html/XTCsid/k7ajs2kc7sssqiavp7hs25hrq1

Regards,
Nick

Spectral Morn
19-03-2010, 22:02
Hi Neil and thanks for the reply.

I'm a DXer as well as an audiophile and I know the Kenwood KT-6040 is well-regarded amongst DX circles, as well as apparently having superb audio quality. I was interested as to how the 3050 might have compared with the 6040 but you may not be familiar with it. The 3050 is from the same era, about 1993.

I already own an Onkyo T-4970 (superb DXer, good sound) and a Sony XDR-F1HD (fantastic DXer, but sounds like an MP3), and I'm thinking of getting a third tuner once I've sold a few things on eBay. I can just imagine the wife's reaction to that, hehe ;). I think we're in the same boat there, although I don't think I'd be able to get away with accumulating a pile! :lolsign:

The main contender at the moment is a Sony ST-S770ES as I have an old ST-SA3ES which had a lovely analogue-style rotary knob, much preferable to push-button tuning. The 770 has very similar but superior ergonomics as you can access all functions directly - with the SA3ES some were only accessible via the menu system. From what I've been able to find, it seems that it may be the best ES tuner that Sony ever made, even better than the SA5ES which followed several years later. Do you know this model? Some pics here:

http://hifi-leipzig.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1009_Sony-ST-S770ES-Highend-Tuner.html/XTCsid/k7ajs2kc7sssqiavp7hs25hrq1

Regards,
Nick

Hi Nick

Yes the 6040 is the model above the 3050. Its supposed to be a bit better, in terms of selectivity and sensitivity and possibly marginally better sonics. Not heard one though so can't really comment further.

Try several piles of tuners :eyebrows::):lol::lol::lol::lol:

Regards D S D L

Nick_G
31-03-2010, 16:32
Well, I bought that third tuner on eBay yesterday. It's a Yamaha T-85, which dates from 1986-88. It has a reputation for being excellent for audio and DX, and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the Onkyo tuner. It's apparently in excellent condition.

I bought it from a seller in Austria so it probably won't arrive until next week. Haven't heard anything from the seller yet but hopefully soon.

Regards,
Nick

Nick_G
13-04-2010, 18:06
As some of you may know, I was after an audiophile tuner with top-quality sound, and something to beat the Onkyo T-4970 in this regard. Well, as I'd recently sold my Minidisc deck on eBay I decided to buy the title tuner, via German eBay from a seller in Austria. This was apparently Yamaha's top-of-the-line tuner in their range from 1986-88.

The tuner arrived yesterday. Apart from a couple of marks near the power switch, the tuner is like new, which is excellent considering it's about 23 years old. The seller even fitted a UK plug. It has one FM aerial socket, 4 IF bands (super-wide, wide, narrow and super-narrow) and it can fine-tune in 10, yes, 10kHz increments. which is useful for detuning away from adjacent channel splatter. It has a circuit called CSL (Computer Servo Lock) which kicks in on strong signals and produces stereo. The signal strength meter is a bar-graph type, and shows a combination of signal strength and signal quality, e.g. multipath/interference. When switching down through the IF bandwidths the signal strength appears to increase incrementally as the narrower filters zero in on the station, and this allows stereo/CSL lock with weaker signals than by using the wide modes. If signal quality deteriorates below a certain threshold the CSL cuts out and the tuner defaults to mono to lessen the noise. Once the interference has gone or the signal increases the CSL cuts back in, so the tuner does protect you from the irritation of QRM, which is regular here at present.

In super-narrow mode it's not as selective as the Onkyo T-4970. For example, I get splatter from Heart 102.9 if I tune to Mercury 102.7 but it can be reduced by fine tuning, although it doesn't seem to be able to eliminate it completely. Apparently the T-85 has 5 filters, and the narrowest is 230kHz, but it is still pretty selective, and is comparable with my old Sony ST-SA3ES in this regard.

One odd quirk I have discovered is that in auto tuning mode I can tune down from frequencies stored in memory but if I tune up it defaults to 87.5 and I have to tune DOWN from there (wrap-around tuning, it starts at 108.0) to scan. Not sure if this is typical of the T-85 but it is a bit odd.

The audio quality from this tuner is superb, and I think it does sound a little better than the Onkyo. On a good broadcast things sound a little more relaxed, and open, with a very natural sound, as Yamaha describe their tuners. I will probably use this tuner mainly for critical radio listening rather than DXing though.

Has anyone else got one of these tuners? It may not be a 'looker' but it certainly sounds good!

Regards,
Nick, Whitchurch, Hampshire

PS, the XYL likes the look (red LED display), and was also particularly impressed with the sound quality.

The Grand Wazoo
13-04-2010, 18:11
Sorry Nick,
Am I being thick blind or stupid?
What's the model?

Oh, OK I've just seen your post above the last one - it's a T-85.
Tuners are one of my fascinations & I've owned a lot of them but I know almost nothing about tuners that don't have a big tuning scale and a big weighted twirly thing to send the pointer flying up & down the scale. I've only ever owned one serious tuner that didn't fit that description!

Some of the older Yamahas can sound a little thin and hard if matched with gear that edes towards brightness. How does yours fair in this respect?

Nick_G
13-04-2010, 19:17
Some of the older Yamahas can sound a little thin and hard if matched with gear that edes towards brightness. How does yours fair in this respect?

Well I have it hooked up to a Rotel RA-04 integrated amp with B&W 601 s2 speakers. Not exactly high-end but it must be fairly revealing as the Yamaha T-85 is the best-sounding tuner I've used in my system. I can't do A/B comparisons as I only have the one coax cable and aerial but I'm used to the sound of the Onkyo and it does sound noticeably better. Bass seems deeper and the whole sound seems a bit more open and more natural. The Onkyo perhaps is slightly muddier.

Nick_G
13-04-2010, 20:19
Perhaps I'd better add that I have the Yamaha hooked up to the amp with Chord cable, whereas the Onkyo has generic RCA connectors. This is probably making some difference but I know some people don't believe in the 'expensive cables improve sound' idea...

Nick_G
12-08-2010, 20:34
Hi Nick

Yes the 6040 is the model above the 3050. Its supposed to be a bit better, in terms of selectivity and sensitivity and possibly marginally better sonics. Not heard one though so can't really comment further.

Try several piles of tuners :eyebrows::):lol::lol::lol::lol:

Regards D S D L

Any updates on the Kenwoods yet?

I'm even more curious now as someone bought a KT-5020 and it blew his Naim NAT-03 out of the water! See here:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83734&page=2

Very interesting!

Spectral Morn
12-08-2010, 20:52
Any updates on the Kenwoods yet?

I'm even more curious now as someone bought a KT-5020 and it blew his Naim NAT-03 out of the water! See here:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83734&page=2

Very interesting!

Hi Nick

Since planning to do this review for AOS I launched an online magazine (Adventures in High Fidelity Audio) and it has taken over a lot of my spare time, so between it, being a mod here and working a few days in a S/H bookshop. I find myself staring at a pile of tuners and not being able to do what I planed to do. Products sent from manufacturers and distributors must take precedence over my tuners. However I do still hope to begin soon, when I can.

I am sorry for any disappointment this will cause.


Regards D S D L

Nick_G
12-08-2010, 22:43
Hi Nick

Since planning to do this review for AOS I launched an online magazine (Adventures in High Fidelity Audio) and it has taken over a lot of my spare time, so between it, being a mod here and working a few days in a S/H bookshop. I find myself staring at a pile of tuners and not being able to do what I planed to do. Products sent from manufacturers and distributors must take precedence over my tuners. However I do still hope to begin soon, when I can.

I am sorry for any disappointment this will cause.


Regards D S D L

Ah well, such is life.

BTW I'd forgotten what the name of that mag was so thanks for that - I've bookmarked it :)

Spectral Morn
12-08-2010, 22:57
Ah well, such is life.

BTW I'd forgotten what the name of that mag was so thanks for that - I've bookmarked it :)

Hi Nick

Just not enough hours in the day....

Hope you enjoy it.

Regards D S D L

zanash
29-04-2011, 10:24
Did you manage to find any more info on the Akai tuner ?

a friend has a moderately good condition one ......

interestingly I set it up in his system ...just on am as he had no fm aerial ...am sounded very lush . Fiddling I got onto fm and the thing was puling in a couple of local station without an antena !!

this unit when illuminated is blue too ....

Rare Bird
08-05-2011, 20:50
Great Topic Neil, great pictures of the Leak & Akai, i was a bit distraught when i saw the Kennies tho :lolsign:

Spectral Morn
08-05-2011, 21:14
Did you manage to find any more info on the Akai tuner ?

a friend has a moderately good condition one ......

interestingly I set it up in his system ...just on am as he had no fm aerial ...am sounded very lush . Fiddling I got onto fm and the thing was puling in a couple of local station without an antena !!

this unit when illuminated is blue too ....

I apologise for missing this post Pete.

I was unable to find much info on the tuner. I did have some on an email but its trapped in an email,account I can't access due to forgetting the pass word :doh::(


Regards Neil

Spectral Morn
08-05-2011, 21:18
Great Topic Neil, great pictures of the Leak & Akai, i was a bit distraught when i saw the Kennies tho :lolsign:

Hi Andre

Thank you. I now have a number of much older Kenwoods but these early 80's ones are actually, despite their plastic look, quite good ;)

The sobering thing for me is the date of the first post and the fact no follow up has occurred :doh::(. I have the tuners but lack the time at the minute to do it. AIHFA takes up a lot of my spare time and the items coming for review keep coming and they must come first.

Someday I will shock everyone and actually start part two :eek: and before FM switch off :lol:


Regards D S D L

Rare Bird
08-05-2011, 21:29
:lolsign:

Do you have a Kenwood 'L01T' by any chance? that was a great tuner.

Spectral Morn
08-05-2011, 21:31
:lolsign:

Do you have a Kenwood 'L01T' by any chance? that was a great tuner.

Sadly no :( I would love to hear one.

I have an 8500, 7300 as well as the ones shown earlier. I would like an 8300 but can't get one at sensible money.


Regards D S D L

hifinutt
19-05-2011, 12:44
i am using a 8300 at the moment, absolutely lovely sound !!!

Spectral Morn
19-05-2011, 15:05
i am using a 8300 at the moment, absolutely lovely sound !!!


I can well imagine.

If you find yourself in a position that you ever want to sell it then would you give me first option on it, please?


Regards D S D L

Nick_G
12-05-2012, 07:48
Well as Neil hasn't updated this thread for a long time I thought I'd chime in with my write-up on a Kenwood KT-1100SD FM tuner that I bought recently. I've been after one for a while after reading Peter Körner's write-up in the Tuner Information Center, and subsequent comments from him regarding its superiority over the much more well-known KT-6040. It has some nice features inside & out including a balanced mixer, an analogue multiplier MPX, 4 IF bandwidths, variable and fixed outputs (the latter on the front of the tuner), oscilloscope/multipath out inputs, etc. This tuner has 5x180 KHz stock filters, but this one has a 180-180-150-150-110 configuration, as well as 3 NiCad batteries for retaining the 16 presets, and a realignment after the filter mods.

How does it perform? Well, it has the best sensitivity of any tuner I have ever used. Yes, it even beats the Sony XDR-F1HD by a small margin for digging the really weak signals out from near the noise floor. In the narrowest setting the signal to noise ratio is stunning, which is probably what helps dig out those weak signals! Selectivity is probably on a par with the top Onkyos, with no problems getting weak signals 200 kHz either side of locals. I don't know if the sensitivity was tweaked when the tuner was re-aligned after the filter mods, but it has blown me away. I never thought I'd find a tuner that was more sensitive than the XDR-F1HD.

The sound quality is also very good indeed. At first, I thought it didn't sound as good as the Yamaha T-85, but it does have a slightly different character which I have got used to. Perhaps it is a smidge below the T-85, but then again the T-85 uses wider filters.

Another really nice touch is an optical encoder to drive the large rotary tuning knob (much better than using up/down buttons IMO) which means that DXers like me won't wear it out!

If you look on nice.kaze.com you will see that the Japanese equivalent, the KT-3030, sold for 120,000 yen in 1984, which is the same sort of price that Accuphase tuners retailed for at the time. It was Kenwood's first high-end digital synthesised tuner.

So a real find. It still seems to be flying under the radar as the price for them on German eBay (which seems to be where they all turn up) is less than more well-known Kenwoods like the KT-6040, 5020, 7020 etc.

A fellow DXer states that his Kenwood KT-6040 with 150/110kHz filters is not as sensitive as his XDR-F1HD. With mine being a little better than my XDR-F1HD I have to conclude that this tuner is a considerable step up in performance from the KT-6040, and I would thoroughly recommend it!

Regards,
Nick, Whitchurch, Hampshire, UK

Spectral Morn
07-06-2012, 09:49
Today is the day :rave:

While I am waiting for some items to come for my Technics1200/1210 review and burning in an interconnect cable which I suspect will need a lot of hours on it before I review it, a window of opportunity has opened, so I am delighted to announce that I am beginning the tuner reviews.

I am starting with Sony and as I type this I am looking at a pile of Sony tuners on the living room floor. Pioneer will be next..... I hope to have this done within a few weeks and by then I hope the Technics review will begin fully; though I have already done some work on this and the results were to say the least interesting.

DSJR
07-06-2012, 11:55
And how are you reviewing them Neil, with hideously compressed broacast sources culled from the DAB lines I'm told? Such a shame that the true potential of these old tuners will now never be fully realised, in the UK at any rate :(

In the old days, the better reviewers used an FM generator fed from master grade material and directly compared the tuner output with these. Is FM still strong in the US as I remember the broadcast quality of east coast at least to be excellent and far better than ours...

Spectral Morn
07-06-2012, 13:59
And how are you reviewing them Neil, with hideously compressed broacast sources culled from the DAB lines I'm told? Such a shame that the true potential of these old tuners will now never be fully realised, in the UK at any rate :(

In the old days, the better reviewers used an FM generator fed from master grade material and directly compared the tuner output with these. Is FM still strong in the US as I remember the broadcast quality of east coast at least to be excellent and far better than ours...

Hi Dave

The way normal mortals will listen to them, except I have given them the very best aerial I can. Interesting results and I should have this section published very soon.

DSJR
07-06-2012, 22:43
I look forward to it :)

I counted the tuners I've accumulated in recent times - uh oh! Nothing fancy but with the FM2 gone it's now at five - cough.......

Rare Bird
07-06-2012, 22:47
Dave whats a 'forward tit'? :lol:

DSJR
07-06-2012, 22:49
Dave whats a 'forward tit'? :lol:

As if you needed to ask :rolleyes:

Post edited - it's late for me and my eyes are stinging. I go dyslexic when I'm tired as well and can't be a*sed to use IESpell most of the time.....

Rare Bird
07-06-2012, 23:04
:lolsign:

Back on track then..I've actually not owned many tuners:

That i can remember:
A&R Cambridge 'T21
JE Sugden 'T48'
Rogers 'T100'
Quad 'FM3'
Ferrograph 'SFM1'
Yamaha 'CT7000'
Armstrong '524'

You got any of these Neil?

Spectral Morn
07-06-2012, 23:06
:lolsign:

Back on track then..I've actually not owned many tuners:

That i can remember:
A&R Cambridge 'T21
JE Sugden 'T48'
Rogers 'T100'
Quad 'FM3'
Ferrograph 'SFM1'
Yamaha 'CT7000'
Armstrong '524'

You got any of these Neil?

No Andre

Missed a CT7000 once on Ebay for an incredible price but it seemed too good to be true so I didn't buy it.

DSJR
08-06-2012, 12:32
My shoddy list -

Arcam Delta 80 - few know how good it can be and it's very cheap now on ebay
Quad FM3 - lightly tweaked
Beomaster 1700 - Sounds really nice but scale only up to 104 rather than 108
Beomaster 3000-2 - receiver with good tuner in dire need of fettling
Ferrograph - SFM2? - Nice styling but no sensitivity so I suspect a lightning strike
Cambridge T55 - Needs a recap but dsounds incredibly three dimensional. Gets spitchy on high level sibilants which is common these days in compressed broadcasts.

Neil has some proper tuners though :)

Barry
10-06-2012, 01:54
My shoddy list -

Leak Troughline Stereo
Quad FM2
Quad FM3
Quad FM4
Cambridge T55
B&O Beomaster 1700

Spectral Morn
25-06-2012, 12:44
Update Sony done, Kenwood done and about to start Pioneer, Revox with Sansui to follow, and then some miscellaneous tuners, Akai, Marantz and Technics. Then the big comparison with the Leak begins. I hope to have the listening done in a week or so, then write it up.

Beobloke
25-06-2012, 15:48
Well, I recently culled my tuner collection down to one, or so I thought. The one in question was an Aiwa AT-9700 which is very nice indeed. I thought I was set for FM for life, and then this thingy with 'B&O Beomaster 5000' written on it came my way, having been bought new by the BBC in 1968 and lived its life monitoring the output quality of GLR!

It's a truly magnificent thing, so it and the Aiwa fulfil my radio needs for now.

Nick_G
12-08-2012, 11:33
Are there any updates on this Neil? I'm looking forward to reading your report.

Spectral Morn
12-08-2012, 11:45
Are there any updates on this Neil? I'm looking forward to reading your report.

Sort of Nick

I have been away for a week but before I went away I had covered Pioneer, Kenwood, Revox, Sansui and Sony re listening and some writing up of my thoughts - though I have copious listening notes - this week coming I will be listening to the rest Marantz, Technics, Panasonic and once that is done the best of the previous tuners will be in a big show down with the Leak.

The bottom line is that I have done the bulk of the preliminary listening so I should have some published material fairly soon.

I am looking forward to finishing it as this project has been way too long in the doing.

Barry
12-08-2012, 11:51
Not yet Nick

I have been away for a week but before I went away I had covered Pioneer, Kenwood, Revox, Sansui and Sony re listening and some writing up of my thoughts - though I have copious listening notes - this week coming I will be listening to the rest Marantz, Technics, Panasonic and once that is done the best of the previous tuners will be in a big show down with the Leak.

The bottom line is that I have done the bulk of the preliminary listening so I should have some published material fairly soon.

Welcome back Neil!

Your imminent tuner report reminds me I said I would do a mini-review of the six tuners I have. Sad to say I have got no further with this since suggesting the idea. :doh:

Spurred on by your progress, I could perhaps have something done by the end of the year. :rolleyes:

Barry
12-08-2012, 11:55
Well, I recently culled my tuner collection down to one, or so I thought. The one in question was an Aiwa AT-9700 which is very nice indeed. I thought I was set for FM for life, and then this thingy with 'B&O Beomaster 5000' written on it came my way, having been bought new by the BBC in 1968 and lived its life monitoring the output quality of GLR!

It's a truly magnificent thing, so it and the Aiwa fulfil my radio needs for now.

B&O made some great tuners. I have a model 1700: a sort of slimmed down version of your magnificent 5000.

Interesting to read the BBC used the 5000 to monitor broadcasts. Later they chose the Quad FM4 for that task.

Spectral Morn
12-08-2012, 11:58
Welcome back Neil!

Your imminent tuner report reminds me I said I would do a mini-review of the six tuners I have. Sad to say I have got no further with this since suggesting the idea. :doh:

Spurred on by your progress, I could perhaps have something done by the end of the year. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the welcome back, I was away for a week in the wilds of Scotland.

Well Barry that would be quicker than I have done mine (insert embarrassed gif). Well actually I am not finished yet so who knows it might be another year lol

Nick_G
08-10-2012, 17:21
Any more news on this Neil? Bumping this thread up to stop it from disappearing....

Nick_G
14-10-2012, 13:28
I snagged a silver Yamaha T-2 off ebay yesterday; it should be with me in about a week or so. Didn't think I'd win with the max bid I'd put in but I did. Have you ever tried one of these Neil? Or anyone else? I hear they are supposed to be excellent.

Nick_G
20-10-2012, 23:40
An update on the T-2 which actually arrived last Tuesday:

It is absolutely stunning! I am constantly amazed at how good this tuner sounds on the stronger BBC national signals, even through my humble system. It really is a significant step up from the T-85. The sound is natural, relaxed, with the best soundstage and imaging of all my tuners. There is a warmth to the sound yet it doesn't give up any detail. It's the most true-to-life sound I've yet heard from FM. The 'Shootout' on the Tuner Information Center also mentions a problem with drift when it's first turned on, but I can't say I've noticed this on mine. I know David 'Anonymous' on his Ricochet (also on the Tuner Information Center website) has said it's a lottery as to whether you get a good T-2 or not, but I can only assume that I got a good one :)

Could the superior sound be partly because it has traditional analogue tuning? I've heard before that digital synthesised tuning can be detrimental to the sound (not sure how this works, but someone on here will probably know). The T-85 in comparison does sound colder and more clinical.

Despite only having two IF bandwidths it seems to be a touch more selective than my T-85. I must get it aligned at some stage. It's the best £100 I've spent on a tuner!

I think you should add this one to your list Neil :D

Regards,
Nick

Nick_G
09-01-2013, 22:25
I picked one of these up last Friday via eBay from a local seller so was nice & cheap (£22!). At that price (a Buy It Now) I couldn't resist. This model was introduced in 1988 IIRC. It has 3 IF bands, Wide, Narrow and Super Narrow. It uses 8 ceramic filters: two are in line for wide, another two for narrow, and a separate IF strip of 4 lots of 150kHz filters for Super Narrow. So you could modify it by installing 110kHz and 80kHz filters in the Super Narrow IF path without affecting the sound quality in Wide and Narrow.

Condition is very good, just a few minor marks, and the display is bright and clear. It is very sensitive and the selectivity in Super Narrow is superb, just a hair behind the modified Kenwood KT-1100SD. I only have cheapo RCA leads connected to the amp but the sound quality seems very good, better than the Kenwood but not as good as the Yamaha T-2. It is very quiet with a clear, detailed but spacious sound. In fact it sounds similar to the Yamaha T-85. I may have to get some proper interconnects for it like the Chord ones I am using for the T-2.

A couple of points: the signal strength meter is a bit odd: it jumps up to 2 bars on very weak signals and doesn't seem to go any higher than 5, even on locals, despite a scale going up to 7. Also it seems to go to stereo when there's barely any signal (1 bar), so it adds extra noise. A gripe related to this is that if I change the mode to mono to cut out the hiss, and the signal level is on the border between 0 and 1 bar the tuner goes back to STEREO AUTO and will flick back and forth in time with the level. However if the signal stays at 1 bar or more then you can select mono.

The TIC review states that the MPX NR button doesn't do anything. Well on this UK version it does. If you find a weak hissy stereo signal, and hit the button, after half a second or so the highs are reduced to minimise noise.

Overall it seems to be a very nice tuner and has got to be one of the best DXers for a 'conventional' tuner i.e. without DSP trickery. Wasn't this one of Denon's best tuners? It gets a very good write-up on the TIC. In fact one member says it has many similarities with the Sansui TU-X710/711 but with better audio and DX capability.

Definitely a nice find. Has anyone else ever tried one?

Regards,
Nick

PS it's about time this thread was bumped up anyway ;)

Spectral Morn
09-01-2013, 22:47
Any more news on this Neil? Bumping this thread up to stop it from disappearing....

Sorry Nick

I have done a substantial amount of work and I was aiming among other things to try and have this completed last year but personal events over took me. I was ill for 5 weeks with the mother of all flu and during that time my Dad died.

To be honest I am now well behind re my online mag reviews and the Whittelbury Show report so I don't know when this will be completed now - sorry.

Thank you for the additions to the thread.


Regards Neil

Nick_G
09-01-2013, 23:49
Sorry Nick

I have done a substantial amount of work and I was aiming among other things to try and have this completed last year but personal events over took me. I was ill for 5 weeks with the mother of all flu and during that time my Dad died.

To be honest I am now well behind re my online mag reviews and the Whittelbury Show report so I don't know when this will be completed now - sorry.

Thank you for the additions to the thread.


Regards Neil

Sorry to hear about your news Neil :( My thoughts are with you.

If I find any other tuners of interest (I'll still be looking out for them) then I will post my findings on here.

Regards,
Nick

Spectral Morn
10-01-2013, 00:02
Sorry to hear about your news Neil :( My thoughts are with you.

If I find any other tuners of interest (I'll still be looking out for them) then I will post my findings on here.

Regards,
Nick

Thank you Nick

Nick_G
20-04-2013, 16:29
Well, I picked up a Hitachi FT-MD5500 recently for chump change, which is the UK iteration of the FT-007. According to the TIC, this tuner may sound slightly better than the FT-5500 MkII due to shorter and better paths from the audio stages, and it gets a very good write up on the Tuner Information Center. So I had to do a shootout against the Denon. I only just got round to hooking it up this afternoon.

So, very quick first impressions are that it doesn't have the extended frequency response of the Denon TU-800L, and consequently has a 'darker' sound. So it does not have that superb sense of clarity, air and space that the Denon has. It does make the slight hiss I get on some stations a bit less noticeable though.

Reception-wise, the narrow mode is considerably wider than the super narrow mode of the Denon too, and so selectivity is adequate for normal use but not good enough for proper DXing. The sensitivity seems a tad down on the TU-800L for the very weak signals that I use for tuner torture tests too.

It is smaller than the Denon and has a compact footprint though and looks a bit more attractive with the faux wood side panels. However, the Denon comprehensively beats it, and so remains my best tuner deal so far. I think the Denon is probably an exceptional digital tuner tbh.

Of course, as always YMMV.

Regards,
Nick

Nick_G
07-10-2014, 19:53
A couple of new tuner additions recently so I thought I'd write up my thoughts on them here.

I bought a Sony ST-SA5ES recently from a seller in Germany. I have been curious about these tuners as my first 'proper' tuner for DXing was an ST-SA3ES and this tuner is its 'big brother', so to speak. Apparently it has had some adjustments to the distortion levels (THD I assume) and the signal strength readout - the seller sent this diagram to explain what had been done: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Mzg0WDMwMA==/z/UpoAAOSwPe1T-KE6/$_4.JPG

Anyway, it is very solidly built, weighing 6.3 kg (compared to the 4.5 kg for the SA3ES) and has the same set of features including full RDS (PS, PTY, CT, PI, Traffic, News, EON) and I must say it is good to have access to PI codes back again for the first time since late December 2006! A very useful feature, particularly during Sporadic E openings, of course. There are a couple of other minor features added on top of those on the SA3ES such as a timer function, preset calendar display and calibration tone. The selectivity of this tuner is also a pleasant surprise, as it is definitely better than my old ST-SA3ES (a UK model, the next one down) despite the selectivity specs for the SA3 and SA5 being the same. I wonder if the Euro models have slightly narrower filters installed than the UK ones (I'm not even sure if the SA5ES was available in the UK). Todd Emslie reports that the SA5ES has 180 and 150 kHz filters installed and this sounds about right to me. I can tune 200 kHz either side of the Wrotham BBC nationals (about 27-28 dBf) without splatter, something that wasn't quite possible with my old SA3. Sensitivity as you would expect is excellent. Tuning modes are 3-fold: manual, via auto-tuning, or through the presets, all with a turn of the large rotary tuning knob.

Ergonomics are mostly very good indeed but some of the features such as IF bandwidth adjustment are hidden in menus which can be a bit of a pain. It does include a signal strength readout in dBf in real-time which is very useful for adjusting the aerial for peak signal. This is accessed by hitting the DISPLAY button until the signal strength appears on the display. I do know that these Euro versions are very different to the versions sold in Japan and North America. It seems odd that Sony gave them both the same model number. There some good images of the Euro SA5ES at Audio Extasa here: http://www.audio-extasa.eu/popup_add...?imagesID=4041

There is a slight quirk with this particular tuner (isn't there always?) in that there appears to be a small amount of 'MPX leakage' when mono is selected. So it doesn't quite shut down the stereo circuitry with the result that there is a low-level hiss on marginal signals and a vague sense of stereo separation. I seem to remember reading something about this on the Yahoo FM tuner forum regarding another Sony tuner but I can't remember where. It isn't a big problem although it is a bit annoying when listening to weak signals through headphones. I'd guess that something needs adjusting somewhere. Maybe it happened when the tuner was tweaked.

The sound quality is very good, but again, it seems to have a slightly rolled-off upper treble compared to the Denon TU-800L. The bass is definitely above average though and matches the high quality AAC streams on the likes of BBC Radio 2. Many other tuners seem to fall a bit short in this regard. It is more ruggedly built than the Denon and looks very attractive.

I will be sending this tuner off to a friend be looked at to see if the hiss problem can be fixed, but apart from that a very nice tuner from Sony, and probably the last proper ES one that they made.

Regards,
Nick

Nick_G
07-10-2014, 19:55
I saw a Kenwood L-1000T on eBay the other week with a starting price of 99p and free shipping (despite weighing about 10 kg) so I put it in my watch list and kept an eye on it. It had some holes drilled on the top panel for ventilation purposes as apparently these tuners run hot due to a big toroidal transformer inside. It included the manual (tatty) and the all-important remote, which is needed to access most of the functions on this device. Apparently the seller had inherited it from a friend who had died recently who had bought it second-hand from a high-end audio emporium. It finished early on a Sunday morning so about 10 minutes before the end of the auction I put in a maximum bid of £101 (about $163) using Gixen and was lucky enough to be the highest bidder.

It arrived here last Wednesday all intact, apart from the plug which was cracked and split exposing bare wire, so I didn’t get it up & running until Thursday evening after obtaining a new plug for it. The tuner is built like a tank, and comes in what I would describe as ‘graphite grey’. It appears to have been released in 1990, around the same time as the KT-7020 and 5020 models. It has 2 aerial inputs, fixed and variable outputs (I wonder if RDS data would be accessible from one of these?), and multipath outputs for an oscilloscope. As most of the functions are on the remote the tuner is minimalist and industrial-looking with just an on/off button on the left, the central display (in a muted amber colour), and rotary tuning knob on the right with a small button for auto or manual tuning. The remote accesses the other functions such as Ant A/B, IF bandwidths (3, labelled Wide, Normal and Narrow), Mono/Stereo, Direct/Distant (like local/DX modes), presets (20), Active Reception (where the tuner decides on the bandwidth, stereo or mono depending on signal/conditions), Manual or Auto tuning, Sensitivity level (related to how strong a signal stops the tuner in Auto tune mode), tuning up/down and output level for the variable outputs.

So, how does it perform? Very well indeed! The selectivity in Narrow is excellent for a stock tuner, and is in the same league as the Denon TU-800L (and therefore the Onkyo T-9990 and probably similar to the KT-6040). I have noticed that compressed pop stations in Narrow sound rough with some obvious distortion, but sound fine in Wide and Normal. This is probably due to the very good selectivity, although the Denon doesn’t sound as rough in Super Narrow. From what I have read, the European version (and UK, judging from the performance) has 8 ceramic filters, but I don’t know the configuration used for Narrow. If all 8 are in line then this may explain the increased distortion. The L-1000T also tunes in 25 kHz steps, unlike the Denon’s 50 kHz so it probably has a slight edge over the Denon for this reason. The steps increase to 50 kHz when Auto tuning or when the tuning up/down arrows are held down. The result of this is that it scans up and down the band more slowly than my other tuners. An interesting feature is that when the bandwidth is changed or the tuner stops tuning a relay clicks, which is something I’ve not come across before. I think that apart from the Sony XDR-F1HD this Kenwood is probably the best stock tuner I have used for DXing. It really is very good for these purposes.

Sound quality in Wide on a good broadcast is excellent with a clean, relaxed sound and good stereo imaging. The bass seems to be better than average too. I did notice whilst listening to Radio 2 a few evenings ago in Wide some slight grainy harshness to vocals on some records that wasn’t present on the AAC internet stream. However, there was no such distortion on Radios 3 and 4 so I can only assume that it was at the BBC’s end, not mine. It could be that this tuner is more revealing of source material and is not as forgiving with sloppy broadcasts.

So this was definitely a lucky find at £101 as I have seen these go for several hundred Euros on eBay Germany. Perhaps some were put off by the holes in the top cabinet, but I took a chance, and it was definitely worth it! I think it has become my favourite tuner. I suspect with hand-picked filters it would be even better. A poor pic below:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3935/15408984806_1fe9d1e2d4_b_d.jpg

Regards,
Nick

Spectral Morn
07-10-2014, 20:52
Hi Nick

Glad you are continuing with this thread, personal life and other factors have contrived to prevent me continuing. The project is shelved but not permanently.

I managed to get a Kenwood 7020 and a 8300 over the last year, so I still have an eye on the project but for a future time when conditions permit doing it.

Nice score re the L1000


Regards Neil

Nick_G
07-10-2014, 21:37
Thanks Neil. I hope all is OK.

I also tried a Pioneer F-93 during the winter after reading intriguing comments about it but I found it underwhelming to be honest and it was a disappointment, especially considering the premium price I paid for it. I sold it on earlier in the year.

I have also read several things on the net suggesting that the L-1000T (and the L-1000 components) had input from Accuphase but that would seem unlikely.

Regards,
Nick

Nick_G
04-04-2017, 17:29
A long time since I posted on here, but here's my thoughts on a new gadget below:

I have bought a new DSP-based tuner, and it is unlike any other I have used before. I had sort of distantly lusted after the BW Broadcast RBRX1, but never thought I'd be able to afford one. Well this has since been superseded by the RBRX Encore. Normally I wouldn't have been able to afford this sort of thing, but I had a bit of a windfall recently and so used the opportunity to snap it up. The device is actually a professional rebroadcasting receiver. Although it is extremely sophisticated with many options buried in menus, it is actually very logical and intuitive to use and I can make adjustments quickly as needed. It has dual DSP-based tuners. I had to buy adapters for the audio cables (it has balanced XLR inputs only) and for the coax plug (it uses a 50 ohm BNC input) but it was easy to set up for monitoring. The receiver is designed to work with the most challenging of reception conditions and rebroadcast your signal at the highest possible quality, so I knew it was going to be ideal for DXing.

Most of the options useful for me are in the PRESETS menu, and I go to the TUNER 1 submenu (this is the tuner I have the aerial hooked up to) where you can tune up and down in 100 kHz steps, adjust the de-emphasis (off/50 uS/75 uS), if filter (auto/fixed - the latter has 15 bandwidths to choose from ranging from 56 kHz to 311 kHz), stereo blend adjustments, stereo improvement with traditional high blend or fmsi (FM stereo improvement) which uses DSP in a similar manner to the Sony XDR-F1HD to kill the extra hiss with many parameters adjustable, soft mute on/off, again with lots of possible adjustments. The display on the left which gives info about the received signal includes RDS data like PS name, PI code and Radiotext (this doesn't seem to work properly) as well as received signal strength in dBuV, multipath %, modulation %, ultrasonic noise, softmute, high cut, stereo blend, high blend, and fmsi parameters such as low band, 2.2 kHz band, 5 kHz band and high band. In short it makes one of those Revoxes look plain and simple in comparison! Adjustments are made using the central rotary knob, which means that you can use this knob to tune up & down the band, with no muting. Very nice. The extended coverage down to 65 MHz mentioned in the PDF specifications is actually not included yet but will apparently be added in a future firmware update. I don't know if the DAB and HD options involve extra hardware or whether this will also be included in a firmware update. I would also hope that there will be an option to adjust the tuning steps e.g. 10, 30, 50 or 100 kHz.

For information, the available IF bandwidths available are: 56, 64, 72, 84, 114, 133, 151, 168, 184, 200, 217, 236, 254, 287 and 311 kHz. Very comprehensive and useful!

The receiver has even more flexibility if it is connected to your LAN, but that isn't really practical for my set up. In theory I could set it up to monitor, say 87.6 MHz, and send me an email when a signal is received, so it could be used as a DX warning device! Having said that, it has what I think may be a software glitch as it occasionally reboots itself at random times, so I'm going to try and update the firmware via ethernet hook-up later this week.

For DXing this receiver is a dream machine in every way. With the IF bandwidth set to Auto it isn't as good as the XDR-F1HD at fending off splatter from adjacent signals 100 kHz away, but using the fixed bandwidth of 56 kHz I think it is actually slightly better in this respect. For general tuning around and DXing I use a fixed bandwidth of 114 kHz as this is a good compromise for good audio quality, excellent selectivity, and easy RDS decoding. If you want to use the receiver as an audiophile listening device you can choose the Measure mode, which bypasses all of the DSP and gives you an unmolested clean FM signal at the widest 311 kHz bandwidth. On BBC Radios 3 and 4 in this mode the audio quality is fantastic, with a bit of a different character to the Kenwood L-1000T, but not inferior. Bear in mind however, that using this mode you will get multiplex noise even on empty channels. The 8 presets can all have different setting stored in them so it's almost like having 8 different tuners as they can be set up for different purposes.

So this device is extremely flexible and sophisticated and it shows what can be done with the latest chipset and DSP software. More info on this receiver can be found at the links below:

http://www.bwbroadcast.com/bwbroadcast/rbrx-encore/64/product

http://www.bwbroadcast.com/files/downloads/BWB-RBRXencore.pdf

YSb-jAsbfPw

Manual: http://www.bwbroadcast.com/files/downloads/rbrx%20user%20manual%20v0.26%20rev2a.pdf

ersel
12-01-2023, 11:18
As mentioned at the tale end of my write up on the history of the Leak Trough-Line FM tuner, I felt I should do a companion piece on the sound quality of Leak Trough-Line tuners, well here it is. This was an interesting and challenging project to embark on as it is the first time I have ever compared the various tuners I own.

The tuners up for comparison were the Leak Trough-Line 2 and Trough-Line 3 which are used in combination with an EAR FM valve stereo decoder, the Leak Trough-Line Stereo (which has its own stereo decoder), The Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo and as a quality reference the Revox 260S FM tuner.

The system used comprised the following...Chapter Audio Preface Signature pre-amplifier, Chapter Audio Couplet power-amplifier and Anthony Gallo Ref 3.1 speakers. Cabling was Atlas Marvos speaker cable, Audience AU24 rca-rca interconnect, and the fixed cable? that comes with the Trough-Line Stereo (a weakness that can be removed by rewiring and placing rca sockets on the chassis.....a project for another day.) Power cables used included Audience AU24 hooked up to the Chapter electronics, TCI Boa Constrictor to the EAR decoder. Most of the tuners have fixed mains cables so no choice was possible (one of the Trough-Lines has the option, but a technical issue shortened the period of use, so no other make of cable was tried).

System used for the review
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners041.jpg

The biggest challenge was to find away to do fairly quick swapping between the tuners. In order to facilitate this a number of things were tried. Firstly a T splitter was installed at the end of the aerial cable, but after some non critical listening it was found to compromise aerial voltage to much so was abandoned. The solution lay in fitting each Trough-Line with a flying lead wired with a 75 Ohm Belling Lee connector from the aerial connection at the back of the tuner. The fitting of these flying leads allowed quick plugging and unplugging between tuners and the coupler used to join aerial to tuners was less of a compromise than the T splitter.

Another problem (which was solved several years ago, or so I thought) raised its head...overall aerial signal strength. It is well known that the Leak Trough-Line tuners lack the sensitivity and selectivity of modern tuners so the base line quality of the FM aerial must be much better to achieve best sound quality and keep noise low or absent. The sensitivity among the TL tuners varied slightly and with the TL2 having, surprisingly the best (this should not be the case, as the later tuners were improved in this area. I am left with the conclusion that the TL 2 is in the best nick/set up and the others are not ? Servicing will be required). The TL 2 also required the FM booster I use to be switched off for some radio stations and on for others (all the other Tuners bar the Revox needed the booster to be left on). However switching from distant to local solved this problem, thus leaving me free to sit and listen rather than running up and down the stairs (the best place for this booster/amplifier was to be placed half way between the aerial [in the roof space] and the downstairs living room, in an upstairs bedroom; just above the living room)....despite this being good exercise it was a pain in the ass.

First up was the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo (from here on the RHTLS), you may wonder why, would it not be more logical to start with the TL 2...well the wiring of the aerial made it more convenient to start with the tuners on the Clearlight Audio Aspeckt rack. There was a definite warm up period of about an hour with the sound becoming less congested and more open. I choose Radio 2 as the test station as it provided the best mix of music plus male and female voices. Unlike other reviews this one is more about the overall sound impression as opposed to a blow by blow comparison of pre selected music...with no access to the Radio 2 schedules I was stuck with their choice of tunes.
Radio 2's tune selection was on form and a number of songs came up that I know including Stevie Wonder-Living for the city. The sound from the RHTLS was strong and rhythmic with excellent sound staging and image placement, however the bass was a bit woolly and the treble slightly rolled. The RHTLS main strength lay in the mid-range and the overall sound was very enjoyable but a little stereo typical of how valves are meant to sound, warm and soft. I switched to the Revox next and was immediately struck at how similar the sound between it and the RHTLS was. However after a few minutes it became clear that while there were some similarities in tonality the bass and treble were different. The Revox had a slightly brighter treble and a slightly more open bass but lacked the magic of the RHTLS mid-range the sound was also slightly flatter lacking the image depth of the valve tuner. In order to illuminate warm up as an issue I left it on and tuned into Radio 2 for later listening.

Close up of the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line Stereo and Revox 260S
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners042.jpg

I switched to the TL Stereo (bought recently) and all was well for about 20 minutes until the Gremlins struck again (I will have to banish them from the house, they have been way to active recently) The sound level dropped off...retuning brought it back, but again after about 20 minutes it went again. The volume output had been a bit lower than the RHTLS but not by much so I wasn't overly concerned...looks like it needs serviced. It should be pointed out that in away, vintage tuners (and these Leak's are at least 40 plus years old) are like classic cars in that they seem to need lots of initial TLC, to bring them up to speck.

Sadly I was forced to abandon the TLS and switch attention to the TL 2 (finally) and the TL 3. Both of these tuners need to be used with an external stereo decoder, in this case one by EAR. After moving the aerial cable I hooked the TL 2 and switched it and the decoder on, with about half an hour of warm up I had a listen.....very nice, but the afore mention aerial gain issue raised its head as slight distortion. Radio 2 had the most signal strength and initially I solved this by switching the up stairs amplifier off. After discovering that using the local and distant switch, to solve this I sat back to listen properly and it was clear that this combination was the overall winner. The slight thickness in the sound present on the RHTLS and to a lesser extent the Revox was absent the TL 2 and decoder was open detailed and articulate in the bass, treble and mid-range. However at times I thought I could just detect a slight phasiness in the overall sound...perhaps there is a slight mis-match between the decoder and tuner, nothing another service won't sort out. The TL 3 and decoder was not as good as the TL 2 and decoder pairing, the sound lacked focus and coherence, but not by much. However, and heres that word again a service may solve that.....?

Trough-Line 3 and Trough-Line 2
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners032-1.jpg
Trough-Line 2
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners043.jpg
EAR valve Stereo decoder
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners045.jpg

Despite the things that went wrong I think its clear that when it comes to Leak tuners that the use of a quality internal decoder(not original) will allow a Trough-Line to compete with a good quality tuner like a Revox and while different (and those differences may be your preference) in my opinion the sound is more musical, enjoyable and kinder to modern compressed music and broadcasting quality; than the Revox was in the context of this review. At this stage I should mention that the almost ruthless transparency of the Chapter amplification, surprisingly favored the valve tuner....I had thought it would be the Revox. The lack of any kind of noise in the Chapter Audio amplification will reveal any present from the source, and while the Revox was more *silent* as is the norm with solid state and the Trough-Line had slightly more as was evident from putting ones ear to the speaker, background hiss being more obvious; the valve tuner was however to my ears better.

As I like to be fair before posting this review I wanted to give the Revox another listen, allowing it a longer warm up period so I listened to it again the following day. As I suspected it was better some of the slight thickness in the sound was gone and everything was more open and detailed. However I also wanted to give the TL 2 and EAR decoder another listen....I made a significant discovery in doing this. I decided to move the Leak tuner to the main rack, from the book case it normally sits on, in doing this the 3m connecting lead I normally use to hook the multiplex output to the decoder, was replaced by the lead that is hard wired into the EAR (nothing special), I took a listen and my mouth hit the floor. The slight phasiness to the sound was gone. A very three dimensional sound reached my ears. A track from the new Pren tenders album was playing and Miss Hyde stood in the room, her band playing around her. Tight articulate bass underpinning the song, I switched quickly to the Revox the sound was two dimensional in comparison lacking the colour richness and quality of the TL 2. Up next was the Kinks and Waterloo Sunset (Radio2 was really ticking all my boxes today), the sound was fabulous as was Michael McDonald's vocals on the following track from the Doobie Brothers. Ian Dury also sounded wonderful during Hit me with your rhythm stick...heady stuff.

Trough-Line 2 and EAR Stereo decoder placed on the Clearlight Aspeckt rack
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners046.jpg
Rear view of the Trough-Line 2 and Ear decoder...note short wire which carries the mutiplex output signal into the decoder
https://theartofsound.net/images/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners047.jpg

Presenters voices lacked a degree of chestiness that was present on the Revox and the other Trough-Line tuners. Studio sounds stood clearly revealed as did a semblance of the Studio acoustic; not much but enough to paint a three D image with the presenters having their own space. In many ways what I was hearing was similar to the difference in sound between vinyl and digital, but in fairness both of these formats have more musical information present in the signal than FM radio....however the analogy is a good one.

I thought that I might have to rewrite my conclusion after listening again on day two and indeed I am but only to reinforce my findings that the TL 2 and EAR decoder combination when connected via a short lead (do remember this factor) offer the best radio I have heard so far (I have not heard the Day Sequera, Naim Nait radio or some of the other well liked radios) so I can't say this is as good as it gets but for me I am happy. I can't, however help but wonder what a top flight serviced Leak set, say from the workshop of Graham Tricker might sound like...ummm? Would this be much better ?

I think its clear that the TL3 and TL Stereo I also used during this test were not up to par. Will they be as good as the TL2 plus EAR stereo decoder ? I suspect the answer is more than likely no, but after a service it will be interesting to do this comparison again....as they say there is more to come. It is also important to say that if you are going to buy a Leak tuner then perhaps it might be better to buy one thats fully serviced and set up, rather than doing the E-bay thing (unless you get and absolute bargain....do such things exist on E-bay ?), to guarantee you the best performance. Another thing that is clear, regardless of the source of your purchase, you will need an excellent aerial set up and one that allows tweaking to suit a vintage tuners needs and particularly a Trough-Lines. My aerial set up covers this, but could be better and it is probably because I am in line of sight of the broadcast mast that I * just* get away with it...you have been warned.


Regards D S D L


Edit No part of this review can be reproduced without written permission...content is copyrighted to ...NK





Hi to all!

Bumping this old thread, in some (albeit) small hope of reviving it.

Guys, Neil, others, write a word, or two...

Here is my list of tuners on rotation:

- Rotel RT-850A (used routinely for a long time, not any longer).
- Leak Troughline II with couple or solid state MPX decoders.
- Scott 350 valve tuner (non-B model, with variable output), in wait of overhaul, service and alignment.
- Scott 350B valve tuner, with Tim de Paravicini modified decoder (built in). In wait of better days with the outdoor antenna it deserves.
- NAD 402
- Rogers T100
- Technics ST-S7, purchased mainly for the built in timer ability.
- Fisher Model 80-R valve mono tuner, used with the same external solid state decoders as the Leak II, via the mpx output.
- Sony ST-S555ES with the audio current transfer adapter cable to RCA
- Grundig RT-50 valve tuner.
- Nikko NT-790 - very clean sounding, a sleeper and underrated, IMO, at least sonically.

- Incoming (and a bit curious about this one): Sanyo T-55, got some good reviews, but a bit on the fence about its bass (possibly a bit too-mucho, after reading one short comparative review) and highs performance, but we'll see... I have not received the tuner yet.

Previously owned Kenwood KT-5020L. Contrary to the hype it got all over the web (when reviews are found) sounded nothing special to me, on a good headphone system, so I let it go.

Something I, regrettably, never got hold of is the EAR FM stereo decoder - the one Neil has shown in his posts. Would be curious to hear what it does for Leak (if anything different than the other usual suspects).

It would be nice to hear from you guys, I hope Neil is still around, alive and kicking...

Best Regards to all of you!

Barry
12-01-2023, 11:38
For personal (and private) reasons Neil no longer posts here.

I have five FM tuners and I have been meaning to do a comparative review. But as they say "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions". Maybe one day I'll get around to it.

walpurgis
12-01-2023, 12:59
Neil has stood down from the forum for now.

Wakefield Turntables
12-01-2023, 22:04
Magnum Dynalab FT101A is what i use and mighty fine it is.