Audiophilia and the Deaf.

[DaveK]

Hi,
I should perhaps have started this thread before embarking on the pursuit of audio excellence, but I often get things the wrong way round !! :)

Around 10 years ago I began to notice that everyone who spoke to me was tending to speak quieter and quieter ;) and around 4 years ago an Audiologist confirmed that I had a typical case of Industry Related Hearing Loss (loss of top and bottom end of the audible spectrum). It is not yet bad but the loss is definitely there, both facts confirmed in the last month by another Audiologist. I have had a digital hearing aid available for the last 4 years but haven't needed to use it much and the most recent examination confirmed that the rate of deterioration was very slow. However, when listening to my recently acquired Mezzo 2 speakers, the use of the one hearing aid certainly improved what I was hearing, hence the decision to get both ears tested again. The Audiologist encouraged me to use a hearing aid in each ear and, for the purposes of listening to music, I was happy to agree - the second one is to be fitted next week.
I have also suffered from Tinnitus for as long as I can remember - this takes the form of a permanent, low volume ringing in both ears which appears to be just under the upper frquency limit, so not loud and only just audible, and easily ignorable in the presence of other sounds.
Questions: -
Do any other members have this minor(?) handicap to cope with and/or has anyone any helpful suggestions to make - "give up listening to music", will not be regarded as a helpful suggestion. :(
:cool:

[The Grand Wazoo]

Dave,

I get my ears syringed every so often because of medical reasons (rather than hi-fi ones!!) & experiencing the change it can make has caused me to realise just how valuable our hearing is to us.

Presumably, you'll be upgrading in a short while to valve hearing aids!


Earl C Hanson patented the first vacuum tube-based hearing aid in 1921. This was large, expensive and unstable, so had little impact on the sales of carbon devices. In 1931 the introduction of a pentode vacuum tube hearing aid provided more powerful and stable amplification, but it failed to catch on. The device was large and heavy, requiring two batteries - one to warm the vacuum tube filament, the other to amplify. In 1937, 95% of hearing aids still used carbon amplifiers. Not until the 1940s did vacuum-tube based devices take over the market, with miniaturised devices from Multitone and Amplivox.

From:
http://website.lineone.net/~rweinkove/hearing/

[DaveK]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for that (I think !!).
I have no wish to start another thread which will polarise the forum but believe me, hearing aids are one area where digital is infinitely better than valve/analogue. :lolsign: They can be costantly tweeked in a matter of seconds to compensate for the changes in (loss of) hearing since the last time.
:cool:

[DSJR]

My Tinitus was made tons worse recently by a thoughtless headbanging headphone session a few weeks ago, the resulting lack of mid affecting my hearing badly for a good while. Now, the mid has mostly recovered, alowing me to listen to the Spendors again without wondering if they're faulty (the BC2 suffers from a laid back upper-mid compared to the level mid with boom that characterises the BC1, giving the BC2 a slight "loudness switch" or "saddleback" balance). I feel as if I have a permanent cold with "blocked-up" ear canals and the vet puts this down to adult "Glue-Ear" combined with loudness-abuse.. Ah well. I'm told the diuretic I take also has a big effect, but I'm too much of a coward to stop it for a week or so to confirm this.....

The one thing that most of us seem to have as we get older, is a bad reaction to distortion in the "glare" frequencies and I'm no exception. Whereas I used to love Naim style presentation in my youth and later, the deeply analytical tones of ATC active speakers, I now much prefer the gentle, but not very muffled "BBC Legacy" sound. I suspect that I'd love vintage Tannoys now, as the pepperpot freakouts at very high frequencies wouldn't be an issue especially - The current Turnberry's are sublime with an EAR 899 driving them...

Mezzo 2's eh? Are they on low stands? The dispersion of these 1960's designed models is very poor and the balance used to be set rather dull to get the ex-radiogram clients who liked a "nice tone." I didn't mind the Magnum K2 though, although the Ditton 44 and 66 were more my scene and both of these latter work well on a modern system.

[Labarum]

I have a 40dB high frequency loss in my left ear.

Poor sound systems make speech very difficult for me - for years I have fed the TV into the HiFi - bad VHS sound I just had to give up on.

But look at the system in my signature. Ageing but refined.

The speakers have metal tweeters and mid range drivers, but their clarity allows me to listen even to brass at quite high levels.

I will grant you the Quad 405-2 has a reputation for being smooth and polite, so that must balance the metal drive units which have a (sometimes) undeserved reptutation for being aggressive.

I too have digital hearing aid which I do not wear - the advantage is so marginal. What interested me was the testing procedure. The lower threshold of my hearing was tested at all frequencies, and so was the upper threshold of pain. The hearing aid works between those limits.

It is not often appreciated that the deaf cannot tolerate loud noises. It was explained to me as being like a radio tuned to a distant and poor station so the volume had to the turned right up -click and pops become sources of great irritation. So, if the ears' internal volume control is turned right up in compensation any loud bang turns into pain.

But I find a clean and clear sound so much easier to listen to and enjoy.

The man at AVI also has high frequency hearing loss. A few months ago the two of us were defending the odd view that those with impaired hearing were more sensitive to distortion and therefore benefited more from good HiFi. We had a hard time convicing the youngsters.

[The Grand Wazoo]

From The Grave

[synsei]

An excellent thread and a big thank you to Chris for reincarnating it. ;)

I too have problems with mild tinnitus which comes from many years of working in various noisy environments. I've not yet reached the stage where I require a hearing aid, however, to avoid worsening the condition I keep headphone usage to a bare minimum.

This proves what I have suspected for a while, that we are a bunch of old duffers who are slowly falling apart to music... :lol:

[JimC]

I too have slight Tinitus, I suspect similar to the OP in as much that during the day and listening to music I do not notice it. It is only at night just before 'dropping off' that I can hear a permanent HF 'whistle'. If I am thinking about the days events then I do not notice it even in bed but if I concentrate on it, there it is.

I noticed it firstly after attending Carter USM's 'final' (huh!) gig at the Brixton academy. It was so loud that the quality of the sound was affected, it was a terrible gig. In hindsight I wish I had walked out but it being the last time they were to perform (rubbish as it turns out!) and the first time I had seen them I percevered. It was a Friday evening and I didn't get my hearing back untill the following Sunday afternoon. I was very close to going to see the Quack on the Monday morning.
I suspect many people on here have similar stories.
I now do not go to 'loud' gig's any longer. I only attend acoustic performances now. I don't want to damage anything any further.

I don't feel I need to get my hearing tested professionally just yet but I shall not be frightened to go when it gets necessary. After having many aged family members being given hearing aids but seemingly too embarrassed to use them, having to shout at them to have a conversation and be deafened by the TV if watching together with them and for them to say ''Oh I don't need it'' when asked why they were not wearing it, I for one will not be too embarrassed to wear anything that prolongues my enjoyment of my music. I shall strap ear trumpets to my head if it will help!!!

James.

[jandl100]

Interesting thread, well resurrected! :thumbsup:

I have very mild occasional tinnitus. High pitched whistle at low volume. It doesn't bother me at all, thankfully.

An audiophile friend of mine has quite severe hearing loss in one ear, but I am totally confident that his audiophile credentials aren't affected in any significant way - he still hears the changes wrought by differing components and setups. And he still enjoys his hifi and his music.

It's quite amazing what the brain can make allowances for.

[Barry]

Interesting thread, well resurrected! :thumbsup:

I have very mild occasional tinnitus. High pitched whistle at low volume. It doesn't bother me at all, thankfully.

An audiophile friend of mine has quite severe hearing loss in one ear, but I am totally confident that his audiophile credentials aren't affected in any significant way - he still hears the changes wrought by differing components and setups. And he still enjoys his hifi and his music.

It's quite amazing what the brain can make allowances for.

I too have very mild tinnitus in my right ear, again a high-pitched whistle at low volume. And, like you it, doesn't bother me either.

I am of an age where age related upper frequency hearing loss is having an effect: I can't hear pure tones above 10kHz, yet I can hear if those overtones are missing.

I wrote about it here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11634).

[awkwardbydesign]

I
It is not often appreciated that the deaf cannot tolerate loud noises. It was explained to me as being like a radio tuned to a distant and poor station so the volume had to the turned right up -click and pops become sources of great irritation. So, if the ears' internal volume control is turned right up in compensation any loud bang turns into pain.

We had a hard time convicing the youngsters.
I often listen late at night at low volume, and it seems that concentrating on the music raises my noise floor. I get an increasing hiss, but it's gone again next day. So far!
And why do you try to convince youngsters? They already know everything worth knowing.
I'm 63, but a 7-8 years ago I had a quick hearing test, and while my wife's hearing dropped off in the HF, mine was still rising at 8kHz, which is where they stopped the test! That gives me some explanation of why I hear things some others don't.

[lewis]

I also have some high frequency hearing loss in my right ear, which is probably due to working in noisy environments. A recent visit to the docs to have my ears syringed confirmed the appearance of some scar tissue on my right ear-drum, which could also be the result of an ear infection, but it does not affect my enjoyment of listening to music. For a long time i thought i had a room balance problem, because when sitting centrally between my speakers, vocals were always off to the left, but now i usually sit to the right of centre so vocals appear central! I think the point-source drive units of my Tannoy Turnberry's help here, as the tonal balance remains the same wherever you sit, so if you have any hearing loss get yourself some Tannoy dual concentrics!

[DaveK]

Hopefully this is sufficiently on topic to be relevant. I have the same sort of tinnitus (high fequ., low vol.) but in both ears. I also have 'Industry related hearing loss' at both ends of the spectrum in both ears but somehow I manage to hear differences when swapping bits of kit (or convince myself I can ;) ). What puzzles me though is how those with greater hearing loss in one ear can get any real impression of sound stage, or am I misunderstanding something? I would have thought it was pretty much like listening to only one speaker :scratch: .
Dave.

[lewis]

Hopefully this is sufficiently on topic to be relevant. I have the same sort of tinnitus (high fequ., low vol.) but in both ears. I also have 'Industry related hearing loss' at both ends of the spectrum in both ears but somehow I manage to hear differences when swapping bits of kit (or convince myself I can ;) ). What puzzles me though is how those with greater hearing loss in one ear can get any real impression of sound stage, or am I misunderstanding something? I would have thought it was pretty much like listening to only one speaker :scratch: .
Dave.

I can understand what you're getting at dave, but no, it's not like listening to one speaker, as i still hear sounds on the right of a soundstage. It's just centrally placed images, vocals especially, that appear left of centre when i'm sitting centrally. It's just high frequency loss in my right ear, bass and mid are the same as my good ear!

[awkwardbydesign]

I would think the brain compensates for the ear's defects. I notice it takes a little while to re-acclimatise to my system after listening to another. Then it all fits together again. My wife has demonstrably worse hearing than I do, yet I rely on her to tell me if there is an improvement. Obviously her brain is superior to mine (it says here).

[Pete The Cat]

To the original point. I strongly recommend wearing earplugs to rock gigs. The people on the stage often are.

Pete