Playing with Earth

[MartinT]

For years I've read about the benefits of installing a good earth to improve the hi-fi system but I've never got around to it - until today!

Take one 4' copper rod with clamp, a length of Kimber 8TC earth cable, a soldering iron, long masonry bit with hammer drill and good sized sledgehammer or mallet. Total material outlay about £25.

In my new house the usual earthing arrangement to the plumbing is under the sink in the utility room, close to the outside wall. I drilled through the double-brick wall and used a rod to pull the earth cable through. Then came lots of stripping and forming the ends of the cable into loops, soldering them to seal all the strands. Next, piledriving the rod took about half an hour, leaving about 2" protruding. Finally, connecting it all up (remembering to cut the power to the house as I had to dislodge the current earth connections), making everything nice and tight and weatherproofing the outside connection with some vaseline. Altogether, less than two hours from start to finish.

The result was, to be frank, very surprising. My soundstage has become more 3D, more palpable with superb focus on instruments and an enhanced sense of space. Where before I could still locate the speakers with my eyes closed (my preferred mode of listening), now I can't locate them at all, so solid is the image. Timing also seems improved with the Techie showing what it can do by starting and stopping on a sixpence.

If I had known to expect this level of improvement I would have done the job ages ago. Very well worth the cost and effort.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I suspect this is something many of us (me included) have been meaning to do for ages. Good to hear it's worth it.

Now try chucking a bucket of water on the soil around the rod - see if it makes any difference.......................

[DSJR]

I think this is illegal....... but I could be wrong!

When we had our new central heating boiler fitted last Autumn, the electrician threw a bit of a wobbly as the gas pipe was supposed to be earthed to the system and this would have meant an unsightly wire running along the front of the house. It ended up that we had our certification downgraded as it was a "repair" rather than a new heating system...

[Ali Tait]

TO ANYONE CONTEMPLATING THIS,YOU NEED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL!
The problem with this is that you are providing a very low-impedance path to earth.The danger of this is if you have a fault on anything electrical inside your house,any shock you recieve could be orders of magnitude greater than would normally be the case.The low-impedance path to earth could mean that fault currents of possibly 10's OF THOUSANDS OF AMPS COULD BE GENERATED!! Obviously this WILL KILL YOU!

PLEASE PLEASE think twice about doing this,and if you do,be aware of the risks!

[MartinT]

Now try chucking a bucket of water on the soil around the rod

I already did that as soon as I had finished driving it into the ground :)

[MartinT]

Ali - the principle of earthing is to ensure that fuses/contact breakers blow, that is how it offers protection. Touching a live wire will rely on your path to earth (i.e. rubber soles), not the additional earth I have installed.

Dave - it shouldn't be illegal as I have not tampered with the existing earthing arrangements, only added to them.

[Spectral Morn]

TO ANYONE CONTEMPLATING THIS,YOU NEED TO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL!
The problem with this is that you are providing a very low-impedance path to earth.The danger of this is if you have a fault on anything electrical inside your house,any shock you recieve could be orders of magnitude greater than would normally be the case.The low-impedance path to earth could mean that fault currents of possibly 10's OF THOUSANDS OF AMPS COULD BE GENERATED!! Obviously this WILL KILL YOU!

PLEASE PLEASE think twice about doing this,and if you do,be aware of the risks!


THANKS ALI....

Guys I wasn't sure what to say here about Martins thread. However it should be stated for the record and this is simply because I don't know if what Martin has done is safe....

*NB* AOS (ART OF SOUND) DOES NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MEMBERS OR GUESTS MESSING AROUND WITH THE ELECTRICITY IN THEIR HOMES. BEFORE UNDERTAKING ANY WORK ON THE ELECTRICAL SUPPLY AND HOW IT IS WIRED, CHECK WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH A FULLY QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. HE/SHE WILL KNOW IF ITS LEGAL AND ABOVE ALL*SAFE*. THE LEGISLATION ON SUCH MATTERS IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING, AND NOT ONLY COULD IT EFFECT YOUR HOUSEHOLD INSURANCE BUT IF WRONG IT COULD KILL. IF IN DOUBT DON'T.


Regards D S D L

[Ali Tait]

Martin I'm well aware how it works,I build high-voltage substations for a living.I have to reiterate,this practice could potentially be extremely dangerous! You are placing an earth outwith the equipotential bonding of your house.I will say again-THIS IS POTENTIALLY LETHAL!

In the 25 years I have been in the industry,I have buried 7 collegues,all killed by electricity in one way or another.This tends to focus the mind wonderfully on the potential dangers of electricity.

Nuff said.

[Spectral Morn]

I am closing this thread until the safety of the procedure martinT has done can be verified.


Sorry D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Thread reopened to allow further discussion. It should be noted that this is not an endorsement of the procedure MartinT has undertaken or its safety, but only that AOS would like to allow further discussion about it.


regards D S D L

[MartinT]

In the interests of safety, and to acknowledge that this work should not be carried out lightly, here is a useful article on providing an additional earth for hi-fi systems:

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/earth.html

I should say that my house uses RCDs, I used wiring with the correct colour coding and safety earth plates and I connected to the main earth connection from the consumer unit without removing any current earth connections to the plumbing. The article does also confirm my findings, which is that sound quality with a good additional earth is improved. Please be careful out there.

[Ali Tait]

Sorry if I was a bit full on,I'm just very safety conscious where electrickery is concerned.I've no doubt this would improve sound,safety aspects notwithstanding.

[DSJR]

Being a bit narky I'd say that all this extra earth nonsense was started by Naimies. If you see how cack handed their product earthing arrangement is these days, especially if you don't have a turntable with separatre earth lead I'm surprised it made any difference, to be honest.

[chris@panteg]

Blimey those naimies have got a lot to answer for .

[Mike Reed]

Being a bit narky I'd say that all this extra earth nonsense was started by Naimies. If you see how cack handed their product earthing arrangement is these days, especially if you don't have a turntable with separatre earth lead I'm surprised it made any difference, to be honest.

How can it be nonsense if it works? Martin's not the first person to discover an improvement, by a long chalk!

Why all this electrical safety business about putting in an earth spike is beyond me. Anybody with so little nous to electrocute themselves doing this would have been long dead by boiling a kettle or making toast!

[Ali Tait]

Mike,if you read the link I posted to a thread on WD,you will see what the inherent dangers are in doing this.

[Clive]

How can it be nonsense if it works? Martin's not the first person to discover an improvement, by a long chalk!

Why all this electrical safety business about putting in an earth spike is beyond me. Anybody with so little nous to electrocute themselves doing this would have been long dead by boiling a kettle or making toast!
I'd not realised the dangers until I read the link, now I understand it. My worry it that I'd end up being toast......this is really dangerous.

[Ali Tait]

Well the fact is,you could do this and have no trouble whatsoever,and enjoy better sound.If certain conditions came to pass though,and you were in the wrong place,touching the wrong thing at the wrong time,you WOULD be toast!

The choice is yours! I can't make the potential hazards plainer than I already have.

[Spectral Morn]

How can it be nonsense if it works? Martin's not the first person to discover an improvement, by a long chalk!

Why all this electrical safety business about putting in an earth spike is beyond me. Anybody with so little nous to electrocute themselves doing this would have been long dead by boiling a kettle or making toast!

Mike as moderator of this part of the forum and not an expert in matters to do with wiring in the home..I had to say what I did. Art of Sound can't be irresponsible in regard to matters of safety. As the representative that night I felt to err to the side of caution was best.

I am quite sure that a properly executed earth and mains set up will offer depending on circumstances some improvements (that is what I have heard to many times to not give it some consideration) but what I don't want is dead members or lurkers who take a bit of info (that may or may not be okay) and or they think they know best(By the way I am not talking about anyone here) and get killed. We can't be held responsible for what people do in their own homes but I feel and so would AOS that we should call attention to safety issues and warn of any potential dangers to life and limb, when appropriate. Not to, would be be poor on our part, and frankly I would not be able to live with my self if some one had got hurt through not saying something about the topic of this thread.

At this point I want to thank Ali for his expressed concern on the night...thank you.


Regards D S D L

[Ali Tait]

No worries,just trying to help and to keep people safe.I may even try it myself sometime! I know what I'm doing though...sometimes at least!

[Spectral Morn]

No worries,just trying to help and to keep people safe.I may even try it myself sometime! I know what I'm doing though...sometimes at least!


Keep it up...your doing good IMHO.


Regards D S D L

[Beechwoods]

When someone very wise coined that phrase 'better safe than sorry' they had a point. Experiment by all means, but with full awareness of the risks! Some of us have more enthusiasm than skill (I speak personally) so let's not go assuming anything ;)

[Iain Sinclair]

When someone very wise coined that phrase 'better safe than sorry' they had a point. Experiment by all means, but with full awareness of the risks! Some of us have more enthusiasm than skill

I have neither!

[Spectral Morn]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, having the sense to doubt yourself in such matters as electricity is IMHO the start of wisdom....it will keep you alive.

Having been blown across a patio once because of a loose wire in a drill I was using (no one knew it was loose as it was internal) I really don't want to experience that again. I am lucky/blessed to still be alive. My finger tips were a little blackened and my heart is still out round about where Saturn is. The pain was awful...Electricity felt like being held in the jaws of some sort of raving beast. It felt like millions of razor blades slicing into every part of me. Never again.



Regards D S D L

[Beechwoods]

I once put my fingers into an empty light-socket walking down into a pitch-black cellar once. It certainly woke me up. I can still feel my arm go rigid. It's good job I was wearing leather upper / vulcanised rubber sole army boots and didn't earth myself across my body... lordy :eyebrows:

[Spectral Morn]

I once put my fingers into an empty light-socket walking down into a pitch-black cellar once. It certainly woke me up. I can still feel my arm go rigid. It's good job I was wearing leather upper / vulcanised rubber sole army boots and didn't earth myself across my body... lordy :eyebrows:

Did that when I was a child reached over for the night light...no bulb in socket...a digit went into the empty socket....the drill was a similar sensation but amplified a thousand times or more...


Regards D S D L

[Barry]

I'd not realised the dangers until I read the link, now I understand it. My worry is that I'd end up being toast......this is really dangerous.

Like a number of people here, I didn't understand the safety implications of this modification. Reading the link to the WD thread, provided by Ali, and also the link provided by Michael T made things much clearer.

Basically the problem was my lack of understanding of PME systems. Even with those two links, I still had to sit down and draw out a circuit diagram to see how under an, admittedly, unlikely fault situation, a whole street's worth of consumer current could flow through the earth stake and cable in order to return to the transformer at the local sub-station.

Barry

[Ali Tait]

Agreed,the chances are remote.But they still exist.Would you walk across a quiet road every day without looking? The odds are you would get run over sooner or later.I think you have to look at this the same way.As I said earlier,I,ve buried 7 collegues in the last 25 years.This tends to make you extremely careful!

[Mike Reed]

I had completely misunderstood the crux of ALI's warnings, believing that these referred to INSTALLATION dangers rather than the potential CONSEQUENTIAL dangers, as they derived from Martin's successful installation.

I, evidently among at least a few, wasn't aware of this until I read the link about PME bonding problems. I 'phoned my physics lecturer (and ardent hifi)friend, who was aware of this, and that he DIDN'T have a PME system, but wasn't able to tell me how to tell whether I had.

If I understand correctly, ALI, this potentially disastrous situation can only occur if a house is earthed using this PME system. I believe you or MARTIN said that this usually applied to NON suburban properties (and I am suburban), so, ergo, is likely to be more prevalent in rural (or possibly urban properties?).

I shall be 'phoning an electrician to ascertain this info, but if you have any clues, I'd be grateful, as I had been considering sticking in another one or two earth spikes and daisy-chaining them.

[Ali Tait]

Hi Mike,
Yes,my warnings were entirely directed at the potential consequences of doing this.In regards to your question,I would not be willing to say anything for sure as I haven't seen your installation for myself,so on the grounds of safety I'd urge you to seek the opinion of a qualified electrician.Generally though,as long as you have your supply protected by RCD's or,even better, RCBO's,you should be ok.I would also ensure the spikes are part of the earthing in the house so that they within the equipotential bonding zone of your house.If you do get someone in,I'd be interested to see if you do in fact end up with a lower impedance supply,as I think you would normally struggle to beat what you have now!

[Mike Reed]

Thanks for that, Ali, and yes, I do have individual 32amp RCBOs on all 8 of my dedicated radial circuits.

Not all, though, of my domestic rings' sockets are protected by RCDs, as far as I can remember (too many building alterations).

Think I can just cope with doing an earth spike without an electrician after installing the audio circuits and current spike! Had a lecky to do the final flourishes, of course.

I do need to know WHAT to look for in order to ascertain my bonding situation, though.

[Ali Tait]

Well the pipework in the house will be bonded to earth somewhere,or perhaps take an earth back to the earth point at your dist. board.Use at least a 10mm squared size cable.Tri-rated would be best.