Classic Cartridges [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Marco

24-02-2008, 18:30

They should rename that 'The Musicmaker' (instead of Len Gregory's effort) because that's what it is.

Hey, Andre... Under the title 'Classic Cartridges' I expect to see loads of Denons, Deccas, Ortofon SPUs, Shures, Supexs, Koetsus, EMTs and even some from Linn! The cartridges they made throughout the 80s (Karma, Asaka, Trak, etc) were very good.

So get to it, my boy! ;)

Marco.

Mike

24-02-2008, 18:39

Musicmaker is a Grado I thought?

Marco

24-02-2008, 18:41

Indeed...a £750 re-badged, slightly fiddled around with, Grado!

Not forgetting the 'Isolator' - a total bargain made from real foam, and yours for £80...

Marco.

Mike

24-02-2008, 18:47

When I thus unpacked the Music Maker, I didn't give it a fleeting chance of actually competing with the Belgian star. To start with, the build quality slums it. The cheap black plastic housing and badly fitting plastic stylus guard are all that remain of the Grado donor cartridge. The cartridge pins are gold and colour-coded with daubs of paint. What really bothered me? The mounting surface ain't flat. With a cheap housing like this, the surface is inevitably warped. The cartridge comes in a cheap plastic travel case as well.

Quote from 6moons

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 19:44

Giz it..... :please:

PM Sent

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 19:45

Marco

24-02-2008, 20:15

No sir-ee, but you is da Vintage Equipment Specialista... :smoking:

And besides, I'm shite at posting pictures!

Marco.

Gromit

24-02-2008, 21:29

I've got a Stilton P77 if that's any good. :)

(it is actually, but could do with a new needle).

Marco

24-02-2008, 21:52

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 22:26

Yep, those certainly qualify as classics. A&R P77 - a bit warm & cuddly, but nice. Your modified one should be even better :)

What's the difference between it and a standard P77? I can't remember.

Marco.

Plastic mounting section replaced.

Stilton did a Nagaoka 'MP11' called the 'TS-11' as well

I had a A&R 'P77'..Didn't like it gave it away

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 22:34

No sir-ee, but you is da Vintage Equipment Specialista... :smoking:

And besides, I'm shite at posting pictures!

Marco.

Here then bet you aint seen one of these:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/5011.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/5011-1.jpg

Westrak '501'...I know what your thinking, don't that look a bit like the Denon '103SA'

Gromit

24-02-2008, 22:36

Here then bet you aint seen one of these:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/5011.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/5011-1.jpg

Westrak '501'...I know what your thinking, don't that look a bit like the Denon '103SA'

Strewth - not seen one of those for a while! :)

Had one in an LP12/RB300 back in 1985 - quite a bright, snappy sounding little device I bought from a shop (the old Superfi I think) in Lincoln.

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 22:39

They should rename that 'The Musicmaker' (instead of Len Gregory's effort) because that's what it is.

Hey, Andre... Under the title 'Classic Cartridges' I expect to see Supex, Koetsu

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/9001.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/9002.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/9003.jpg

Supex '900S'..

Marco

24-02-2008, 22:39

Ah, I thought it was something like that.

What didn't you like about the P77? I tend to agree, their overall balance was a touch on the 'heavy' side, but still quite musical sounding.

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 22:46

Ah, I thought it was something like that.

What didn't you like about the P77? I tend to agree, their overall balance was a bit on the 'heavy' side, but still quite musical sounding.

Marco.

Bit dull & laid back for me Marco...Didn't like there 'P78' either (Boron canti) or Goldring manufactured 'PMX-10' MC..

Marco

24-02-2008, 22:47

Westrak '501'...I know what your thinking, don't that look a bit like the Denon '103SA'

Very much so. I'd go as far to say that the generator and stylus assembly are that of a DL-103. I suspect there might be some Supex influence in there, too. Perhaps Westrak out-sourced the design?

Cool pics, mate. Some Deccas and SPUs would be nice now :)

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 22:51

Marco notice the Westrak cartridge pins in a line like say the Linn 'ASAK' cart..

Marco

24-02-2008, 22:58

Yep, and also the Trak - both made by Supex for Linn, hence my mentioning Supex :)

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder

24-02-2008, 23:01

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/SPU1.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/SPU2.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/SPU3.jpg

Ortofon 'SPU-A'

pure sound

01-03-2008, 14:01

I don't know about 'classic' but it's old & I'm enjoying it!

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/MC2V.jpg

Mayware MC-2V. Sounds much more natural than the forced presentation I hear in many modern MC's.

Vinyl Grinder

01-03-2008, 15:18

Nice one Guy, sound good don't they?Try get 'MC-7' they are cool.

pure sound

01-03-2008, 16:05

I have to admit that reading their blurb sheet again, I do like the cut of their jib! They do seem to have been trying to offer good vfm and by the looks of it (read the bottom, banned from HFN!) were upsetting certain other companies/importers by doing so.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/MaywareFlyer.jpg

I would like to hear the MC7 but have never seen one for sale. I suspect my MC2 is a rarity now and only survives because its been packed away for 22 years. Any that are around are probably shagged or would need to be re-built. These aren't Koetsu's or Kiseki's so don't have the cachet and prestige that might have made them worth keeping in service. However, if you know what goes into making an MC you'll also know how similar (beneath the fancy wood bodies) most MC's actually are. The MC2 doesn't suffer in comparison with most of those more 'exotic' designs. It too was made in Japan iirc.

Vinyl Grinder

01-03-2008, 17:23

MC-7 don't look like the 'MC-2' guy it more square & plain with a thinish metal top/mounting plate..The 'T24' transformers are suprisingly good sounding...I kick my self on a regular basis for not still having them..

Mayware gave you amazing value for money with no hyped prices.Well it's not that hard to imagine who complained about them!

pure sound

01-03-2008, 17:32

I do wonder how closely the MC2 resembles the SPU internally. It sounds perhaps more like one of those than anything else I can readily think of. 3 ohms too.

Any pics of the MC7 or the transformer?

Vinyl Grinder

01-03-2008, 18:02

No Pics i'll keep a look out.

Here just for u guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuXcALotv68

Vinyl Grinder

03-03-2008, 08:53

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/205-2.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/2052.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/2053-1.jpg

At least those boyz at Technics made something decent :lol:

Vinyl Grinder

03-03-2008, 09:13

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/MC2-1.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/MC2.jpg

NRG

03-03-2008, 11:39

I had a P77 for a very short while, bought from Acoustic f-Arts in Watford, dull as ditch water and thick sounding, not clear at all...I took it back and demanded my money back LOL! All credit to AA they obliged! Then went for the MP11, it was OK then tried an AT-F3 MC (still have it) complete opposite to the P77, all bright and no bass, moved quickly to the AT-F5 which was much better but made the mistake of selling it with my Logic DM101..... Happy times!

Vinyl Grinder

03-03-2008, 13:39

I'll go with the 'P77' it was a dreadful cartridge.A&R were a super company back then but wtf were they playing at cartridge wise!!! AT carts are the total reverse i agree but they are aweful cartridges too.Nice one with the Logic 'DM101' one of my favs.

pure sound

03-03-2008, 13:47

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/MC2-1.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj292/ELPFAN/MC2.jpg

One thing I do like about it besides the nifty guard is the nice rectangular body shape. Makes alignment much easier :)

Vinyl Grinder

03-03-2008, 14:01

One thing I do like about it besides the nifty guard is the nice rectangular body shape. Makes alignment much easier :)

MC-7 even easier, mounting sections the same but the body is more square .

DAVEDWACK

03-03-2008, 21:00

DSJR

08-05-2008, 15:44

The problem is, these things need to be properly measured to see exactly what they're doing... The Musicmaker has the classic Grado droop at high frequencies which is clearly audible and the isolator thingy does unspeakable things to the bass response, according to HiFi World's tests. I know measurements don't tell us everything, but on cartridges and speakers they can be very important. Buy some HiFi Choice cartridge tests to get a feel of some of the "classics."

I started a list, but erased it once I got to the Decca Microscanner... There are some long gone mm's which were great and I must admit the technics 203 mentioned earlier was far better than I thought, bearing in mind my false reference at the time was a warm bloated LP12 with Ittok and usual Linn cartridge. Set up a system around that and nothing else will work...

Peter Stockwell

05-07-2008, 14:51

I have a local, to me, shop selling Empire 600LAC & 900GT cartridges NOS.

Anybody remember from the golden years ?

Peter

Peter Stockwell

07-08-2008, 11:45

I've got one of these winging its way to me now, I intend getting JICO SAS stylus for it.

film at 11.

niklasthedolphin

08-08-2008, 10:51

I wonder if A&R P77 has anything to do with Tekni-Fi P77?
The latter having VdH needling.

I used to have have the Tekni-Fi P77 and that was extremely neutral almost going analytic as AT OC9 (Which I also had).

More musicaly was my Goldring Excel.

Today I use Micro Benz L2 and I must say I am very contend with it.

Here is (http://www.cartridgedb.com/), by the way, a comprehensive cartridge database with prices and a lot of data on each like
Dynamic Compliance
Output
Impedance
VTF
etc.

After listening to a lot of PU's I have a few favourites:

Shelter 901 & Harmony
Lyra titan & Dorian
Decca London
Goldring Excel
Benz Ruby 3 & L2
AT OC 9
Sumiko Celebration Signature
Tekni-Fi P77
Audio Note Io ltd

"dolph"

Prince of Darkness

08-08-2008, 11:15

I had a bit of a look on the web with regard to the P77 cartridges. It seems that the Tekni-Fi and A&R (Arcam) are totally different cartridges. The Tekni-Fi appears to be based on an Excel design (I had something similar, with a shibata profile stylus), whereas the A&R was apparently a rebadged Garrott bros model.:)

Peter Stockwell

08-08-2008, 13:44

I had a bit of a look on the web with regard to the P77 cartridges. ... whereas the A&R was apparently a rebadged Garrott bros model.:)

Isn't that backwards ?

Prince of Darkness

08-08-2008, 15:25

Isn't that backwards ?

Yes, I think you're right.:doh:

Martyn Miles

17-08-2008, 13:00

My classic cartridge is an Entre 1 MC, from the late '70s. I initially had it in a Rega 3 and subsequently in a Mission 774 arm on a Linn LP12. It still works beautifully in that setup. It has had a number of styli fitted by Expert Pickups. They even rewound a coil, as the output was down on one channel. I had an Ortofon MC 20MC from the mid '80s as well. Lovely cartridge, but not up to the Entre. That had a new stylus or two and now resides in my brother's system, which it suits well. Martyn Miles .

Rare Bird

24-06-2010, 15:47

Goldring 920IGC (VDH II) Improved Groove Contact :)..I still have one somewhere NOS still in it's 50p shaped box..

Coral 'MC82' were ok

DSJR

24-06-2010, 16:01

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TheeDecca062009.jpg

Barry

24-06-2010, 16:17

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TheeDecca062009.jpg

Excellent! I really must dig out my Deccas and give them a go.

Regards

quadsugdenman

25-06-2010, 11:30

Decca London - Wooooooooooooonderful. Different from the rest in so many ways :clap::clap::clap::clap:

DSJR

25-06-2010, 11:32

The MicroScanner is/was different again IMO..... No hf probs and great tracking on this sample..

quadsugdenman

25-06-2010, 12:18

Yep, I have only heard the Ms a couple of times but was impressed by the clarity. My Decca London Gold had real bite and a habit of mistracking til I got a Hadcock unipivot which it liked a lot!!;)

Thermionic

29-08-2010, 15:22

I thought my 1979 Dyanvector 30C cartridge might be of interest though possibly not a classic.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t229/VPR5/Dynavector1.jpg

While vintage, I am not sure it’s a classic because I don’t think it was all that popular. I bought it as a replacement / exchange for an Ultimo 20A. The Ultimo’s were manufactured by Onlife Research which later became Dynavector, and were imported by the late Donald Chave. They were I think the first high output moving coils. The 30 series was the next generation and the C was top of the range costing around £180.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t229/VPR5/Dynavector2.jpg

It has a straight solid Boron cantilever fitted with a grain oriented ‘Paroc’ diamond by the late Dr Weintz. The wiring is silver, and the coils are wound on lightweight non-magnetic polycarbonate formers. Designed for the DV505 arm the connector is in fact standard Ortophon, so it works reasonably well in my modified SME. (I can’t remember the model no but it has the steel knife edge bearings, and I filled the arm tube with glass loaded epoxy resin to increase mass and rigidity, silver wired it and removed the counterweight decoupling.)

kcc123

29-08-2010, 21:43

Talking about classic cartridges, I have quite a few of them, for example, the ADC XLM mk3, Stanton 681 EEE, AT OC9, AR P77/C77, Denon 103/103D, Ortofon VMS 20/30, Supex 900 Super, Entre EC-1, JVC X1, Stilton Nagaoka MP11, AT 33E, and Technics 205C mk3….etc.

DSJR

30-08-2010, 10:03

I feel bad that I completely mis-understood the Technics 205/III. This cartridge was one of the best ever made, but because it was totally "flat" in response, it didn't go too well with the compromised Linn/Naim systems of the period sadly, sounding thin and toppy. Martin Colloms was in a quandary at the time as well, as this pickup was better in HiFi terms than the sexy sounding but "wrong" Koetsus, yet it must have been better for him to go with the latter as they were "top end" devices with all the kudos and cachet these bits of male jewellery attract. The rest is history, gthe 205 evolving further I believe and then disappearing forever. The lavish Koetsu's are still around at huge prices and are definitely a "heart" purchase IMO.

theophile

21-12-2010, 12:26

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TheeDecca062009.jpg

I got my Garrott Decca Microscanner from the brothers themselves at their flat in Avalon in Sydney in 1986.

I tend to use a cartridge for a while unless I don't like it.Not jumping to and fro a lot.Usually when it comes time to replace,I'll try something different.

Cartridges I've lived with include Stanton 681EEE,Supex SD 900E,Supex SD 900 Mk II,Supex SD 1000,Denon DL 303,Sumiko Blue Point Special,Dynavector Karat Diamond,Soundsmith The Voice.

I own a Stanton 980 HZS which looks to be brand new(no wear around the mounting holes.nothing whatsoever.).I've never used it.One day....

Could I rank them?No.Too many different systems to draw reliable comparisons.Which ones would I like to have available to use with my current system?

The Garrott Decca,the Supexes and the Dynavector(The Voice is the cartridge in use).

Other classics which I don't recall seeing mentioned on this thread are the
AKG P8ES,the Supex SD 2000,the Townshend Elite MCZ 555,Ortofon SPU,Micro Acoustics Piezoelectric cartridges,Adcom Crosscoils,Goldbug Brier,Sao Win Strain Gauge cartridge.