Spectral Morn
16-04-2009, 22:22
Hi Guys
A few days ago a loud popping sound intermittently appeared on the right channel of my system. I felt the culprit was most likely the Balanced Audio Technology (BAT) VK75 power amplifier. Last year it developed a problem on the right channel which manifested itself as intermittent crackling. I assumed it was the same problem or similar so after swapping valves etc and still getting the problem I pulled the amp out and installed my Music Reference RM200 amplifier from my upstairs set up. Sound was very good but not as good as the BAT amp. And then POP, the odd sound turned up again still on the right channel. It was the BAT VK31se pre-amplifier....ummmm, a valve most likely. Very reluctantly I powered it down to start the process of swapping valves to see which one it was. As it turned out the culprit seemed obvious and perhaps it was dirt rather than a faulty tube, but I replaced it anyway. Now I used the word reluctantly earlier, when I was going to have to power the pre down. It takes about a week to come back to a full level of sound quality (theres that warm up thing again).
So with the BAT pre off (giving an opportunity to take photos of its insides link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1795&page=6 post57 )I decided to have a play around with some of the other kit I have. I thought and on paper it seemed a logical choice to put an EAR 864 pre on the end of the RM200 amplifier. This wonderful design from the USA by Roger A. Modjeski(http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/) is a 100 watt KT88 fully balanced design with a solid state input stage. I wired the pre and power up using Atlas Marvos xlr to xlr and I also wired the Moon Andromeda to the pre via the same type of cable. As the EAR is wired for the European XLR configuration and the RM200 for the American I switched phase on the Moon CD player so that phase would be correct when it reached the speakers.
MUSIC REFERENCE RM200
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LondonSept07Hi-FiShowandHomehi-f-6.jpg
Well what should have sounded good didn't, in fact it pretty much sounded like some one had poured syrup into the speakers. The sound was warm cuddly and soft...very soft. Marco and Dave (DSJR) predicted that this might be the case with badly matched EAR kit, during comments made on another thread...well done guys, you were right. The EAR is a very good valve pre and it sits to the just warmer side of neutral. It should have matched the RM200 well as it has a fairly clean and neutral sound, just sitting on the fence, neither warm nor cool. However it didn't, now this could be a mismatch in the specs (not phase I hasten to add) perhaps the fact the EAR is not a fully balanced design might be to blame but for whatever reason the pairing was very poor.
EAR 864 PRE-AMPLIFIER
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy003.jpg
This got me thinking about the Elephant in the room that rarely gets discussed anywhere, be it on forums or in the printed or on-line audio press...and that is the art of system matching or SYSTEM SYNERGY.
What exactly is it ? How does one insure that a set up is fully matched ? Is it a question of matching by specs alone ? Tonal balance...a bit of warm with cool etc ? Must you try kit to see if it will match or can it be done just by looking at the measurements ? Will a one brand setup work better than a mixture ? Or is it a mixture of all of the above ?
We must also not forget the room, size, acoustics, materials the room is made of, degree of liveness etc. Oh yes and type of music to be listened to. All of the above can make or break a good set up.
It bugs me when people think they can do this by putting What Hi-Fi 5 star kit together or and worse IMHO when a retailer does this (and they do exist). There is also the process of putting a system together by going on a dealers recommendation...something I always refused to do, because all of the above listed questions would have to be answered before I could even hope to make a start on putting a starter demo system together.
My placing the EAR and RM200 together was a failure, I assumed it would work...almost the first rule in this hobby is never make assumptions....there are way to many variables.
Anyway I remembered that the EAR pre and a pair of Audio Innovations Series 1000 mk 3 amplifiers had sounded very well in my down stairs set up when I tried this pairing a few years ago. I brought down the amplifiers and wired it all up with a mixture of rca to rca Atlas Marvos and Xlr to Xlr of the same. I let the system cook for about half an hour and see if there would be synergy. There was....relief all round.
MY LISTENING ROOM
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy001.jpg
BIRDS EYE VIEW OF SYSTEM
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy005.jpg
The Audio Innovations amplifiers are 50 watt class A designs using ECC 83 and ECC82 driver valves with EL34's normally fitted, I had replaced those with Tung-Sol new reissue 5881's a military spec and more reliable EL34 derivative.
AUDIO INNOVATIONS SERIES 1000 MK3 MONO BLOCK AMPLIFIER
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy.jpg
CLOSE UP OF TUNG-SOL NEW REISSUE 5881 VALVES
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy007.jpg
The sound was excellent punchy, rhythmical and very musical. The overall tone was just to the right side of warm, detail and the sound stage was very good but not it must be said as good as my BAT VK31se pre or BAT VK75 power amp or even with the RM200 power amplifier. The BAT and Music Reference amplification allow more detail and insight into the micro and macro elements of the music. They reveal much more than the EAR and AI about these important nuances. However the sound was still very good and I must confess a few years ago I would have been very content with a sound like this , but not now. The other gear gets me much further along the road than the EAR and AI combination. It should be mentioned that the EAR pre at about £1700 and the S/H cost of a set of mk 3 Series 1000 Audio Innovations amps being about £800 plus, is a lot more affordable that the BAT combinations combined price.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy004.jpg
The synergy of these combinations lead to the results heard and when it was wrong it was very obviously wrong (though I suppose someone might have thought it was good). What I urge you all to do is question your assumptions and never take as read that anyones opinion is worth more than your own experience in your room. You must try everything.
The reason I am placing this item in the general discussion section and not Strokes of Genius is that I want to start a discussion about synergy and what you guys feel about it. What your experiences have been when it has been right and wrong, and maybe we could establish a list of items and circumstances that really don't belong together based on a consensus of experience backed opinion. This will be of help to all but particularly those new to audio or just plain confused.
Regards D S D L
A few days ago a loud popping sound intermittently appeared on the right channel of my system. I felt the culprit was most likely the Balanced Audio Technology (BAT) VK75 power amplifier. Last year it developed a problem on the right channel which manifested itself as intermittent crackling. I assumed it was the same problem or similar so after swapping valves etc and still getting the problem I pulled the amp out and installed my Music Reference RM200 amplifier from my upstairs set up. Sound was very good but not as good as the BAT amp. And then POP, the odd sound turned up again still on the right channel. It was the BAT VK31se pre-amplifier....ummmm, a valve most likely. Very reluctantly I powered it down to start the process of swapping valves to see which one it was. As it turned out the culprit seemed obvious and perhaps it was dirt rather than a faulty tube, but I replaced it anyway. Now I used the word reluctantly earlier, when I was going to have to power the pre down. It takes about a week to come back to a full level of sound quality (theres that warm up thing again).
So with the BAT pre off (giving an opportunity to take photos of its insides link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1795&page=6 post57 )I decided to have a play around with some of the other kit I have. I thought and on paper it seemed a logical choice to put an EAR 864 pre on the end of the RM200 amplifier. This wonderful design from the USA by Roger A. Modjeski(http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/) is a 100 watt KT88 fully balanced design with a solid state input stage. I wired the pre and power up using Atlas Marvos xlr to xlr and I also wired the Moon Andromeda to the pre via the same type of cable. As the EAR is wired for the European XLR configuration and the RM200 for the American I switched phase on the Moon CD player so that phase would be correct when it reached the speakers.
MUSIC REFERENCE RM200
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LondonSept07Hi-FiShowandHomehi-f-6.jpg
Well what should have sounded good didn't, in fact it pretty much sounded like some one had poured syrup into the speakers. The sound was warm cuddly and soft...very soft. Marco and Dave (DSJR) predicted that this might be the case with badly matched EAR kit, during comments made on another thread...well done guys, you were right. The EAR is a very good valve pre and it sits to the just warmer side of neutral. It should have matched the RM200 well as it has a fairly clean and neutral sound, just sitting on the fence, neither warm nor cool. However it didn't, now this could be a mismatch in the specs (not phase I hasten to add) perhaps the fact the EAR is not a fully balanced design might be to blame but for whatever reason the pairing was very poor.
EAR 864 PRE-AMPLIFIER
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy003.jpg
This got me thinking about the Elephant in the room that rarely gets discussed anywhere, be it on forums or in the printed or on-line audio press...and that is the art of system matching or SYSTEM SYNERGY.
What exactly is it ? How does one insure that a set up is fully matched ? Is it a question of matching by specs alone ? Tonal balance...a bit of warm with cool etc ? Must you try kit to see if it will match or can it be done just by looking at the measurements ? Will a one brand setup work better than a mixture ? Or is it a mixture of all of the above ?
We must also not forget the room, size, acoustics, materials the room is made of, degree of liveness etc. Oh yes and type of music to be listened to. All of the above can make or break a good set up.
It bugs me when people think they can do this by putting What Hi-Fi 5 star kit together or and worse IMHO when a retailer does this (and they do exist). There is also the process of putting a system together by going on a dealers recommendation...something I always refused to do, because all of the above listed questions would have to be answered before I could even hope to make a start on putting a starter demo system together.
My placing the EAR and RM200 together was a failure, I assumed it would work...almost the first rule in this hobby is never make assumptions....there are way to many variables.
Anyway I remembered that the EAR pre and a pair of Audio Innovations Series 1000 mk 3 amplifiers had sounded very well in my down stairs set up when I tried this pairing a few years ago. I brought down the amplifiers and wired it all up with a mixture of rca to rca Atlas Marvos and Xlr to Xlr of the same. I let the system cook for about half an hour and see if there would be synergy. There was....relief all round.
MY LISTENING ROOM
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy001.jpg
BIRDS EYE VIEW OF SYSTEM
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy005.jpg
The Audio Innovations amplifiers are 50 watt class A designs using ECC 83 and ECC82 driver valves with EL34's normally fitted, I had replaced those with Tung-Sol new reissue 5881's a military spec and more reliable EL34 derivative.
AUDIO INNOVATIONS SERIES 1000 MK3 MONO BLOCK AMPLIFIER
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy.jpg
CLOSE UP OF TUNG-SOL NEW REISSUE 5881 VALVES
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy007.jpg
The sound was excellent punchy, rhythmical and very musical. The overall tone was just to the right side of warm, detail and the sound stage was very good but not it must be said as good as my BAT VK31se pre or BAT VK75 power amp or even with the RM200 power amplifier. The BAT and Music Reference amplification allow more detail and insight into the micro and macro elements of the music. They reveal much more than the EAR and AI about these important nuances. However the sound was still very good and I must confess a few years ago I would have been very content with a sound like this , but not now. The other gear gets me much further along the road than the EAR and AI combination. It should be mentioned that the EAR pre at about £1700 and the S/H cost of a set of mk 3 Series 1000 Audio Innovations amps being about £800 plus, is a lot more affordable that the BAT combinations combined price.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/SystemSynergy004.jpg
The synergy of these combinations lead to the results heard and when it was wrong it was very obviously wrong (though I suppose someone might have thought it was good). What I urge you all to do is question your assumptions and never take as read that anyones opinion is worth more than your own experience in your room. You must try everything.
The reason I am placing this item in the general discussion section and not Strokes of Genius is that I want to start a discussion about synergy and what you guys feel about it. What your experiences have been when it has been right and wrong, and maybe we could establish a list of items and circumstances that really don't belong together based on a consensus of experience backed opinion. This will be of help to all but particularly those new to audio or just plain confused.
Regards D S D L