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Wakefield Turntables
23-03-2013, 20:28
Yep it should be a slate plinth as I have heard that sonically this is supposed to be the more superior than Granite. Granite is supposed to "ring". But, I'm thinking if I use decent platter mat and dampening rings around the platter that I should be able to remove the ringing aspect of the granite :scratch: Thoughts, idea's and comments most welcome. :D

Dingdong
23-03-2013, 20:56
Use some sort of resin or silicone in the plinth.

Maybe drill holes into the underside of the plinth and fill them.

Stratmangler
23-03-2013, 21:51
Slate can be pretty resonant too - I have a slate shelf on my Target TT shelf, and I use RDC Cone Cups on top of the spikes to isolate the shelf from the spikes of the frame.

The shelf is 10mm or so thick.

Slawts
23-03-2013, 21:59
I'm using granite for my Lenco. I haven't heard one with a slate plinth but mine is much better than the original wooden one.

The biggest change I've made is having the arm directly on to the granite. There's a break between the turntable and arm now as they are not really attached. It has made a huge difference in every way.

Just as long as you are sorted thus I doubt if it makes much difference. I went with granite as it was free and I didn't have any slate.

My avatar is the old way. I'll have to take a new pic as it looks and sounds better now.

Steve :eyebrows:

YNWaN
24-03-2013, 02:08
Yep it should be a slate plinth as I have heard that sonically this is supposed to be the more superior than Granite. Granite is supposed to "ring".

Yes, I have heard that concept too. However, whilst it is a nice idea, I don't think it's true. In fact, my experience is rather the opposite. In reality, neither material will ring from the amplitude of vibration generated in a turntable.


But, I'm thinking if I use decent platter mat and dampening rings around the platter that I should be able to remove the ringing aspect of the granite :scratch: Thoughts, idea's and comments most welcome. :D

I wouldn't have thought so, no. Damping the platter and damping the plinth are quite different issues. Putting a heavily damped platter on a very lively plinth will do little to the plinth - remember, the arm is attached to the plinth...(in this case).

sq225917
24-03-2013, 09:02
I would have thought how you create the coupling between the chassis and plinth has at least as much effect as choosing between slabs of different stones.

Wakefield Turntables
24-03-2013, 10:26
Great a decent debate about plinths! Every good audio forum should have one, and lets hope that this is the AOS version. :lol: The arm will be decoupled from the main plinth. I intend to have a seperate armboard. I've heard that resonance can be picked up from the motor and into the arm board. I also intend trying a double tier system for further turntable and tonearm isolation. I have no problems using or getting hold of sorbothane as i use the stuff at work quite a fair old bit. Currently my 301 is sitting in a very shall we say, rustic, plinth and the tonearm is picking up vibration from the motor. I can hear a low rumbling noise when I play vinyl and its silent when just allowing the platter to spin when powered up.

Thermionic Idler
25-03-2013, 18:58
Well, the received wisdom is that slate is superior because its structure is similar to that of the commonly used constrained layer wood plinths.

However, granite makes a case for itself because it is one of the most inert materials known, it's used as a base for co-ordinate measuring machines and other lab applications.

The firm who manufactured my plinth offers both granite and slate options (as well as acrylic and mdf). They did some listening tests and found that if the plinth was hard coupled to the shelf using spikes, slate gave superior results to granite.

However, if the same plinth was decoupled on sorbothane spheres, firstly this led to an improvement in sound for both plinth materials BUT critically, granite then had the upper hand over slate. So their top plinth is constructed from granite and having seen both, the polished granite looks a damn sight better too!

I suspect overall deck condition will be a far greater determining factor to the end result than the difference between granite and slate though.

Dingdong
25-03-2013, 19:11
Great a decent debate about plinths! Every good audio forum should have one, and lets hope that this is the AOS version. :lol: The arm will be decoupled from the main plinth. I intend to have a seperate armboard. I've heard that resonance can be picked up from the motor and into the arm board. I also intend trying a double tier system for further turntable and tonearm isolation. I have no problems using or getting hold of sorbothane as i use the stuff at work quite a fair old bit. Currently my 301 is sitting in a very shall we say, rustic, plinth and the tonearm is picking up vibration from the motor. I can hear a low rumbling noise when I play vinyl and its silent when just allowing the platter to spin when powered up.

Even if you isolated the arm from the rest of the deck the needle will still be picking up vibration through the platter. And the arm needs to be at a fixed distance in relation to the spindle.
Damping down the rumble would be the way to go imo. Although, with your choice of tt, there is only so much you can do.

chelsea
25-03-2013, 19:19
Is it a hollow plinth?

Wakefield Turntables
25-03-2013, 19:26
Is it a hollow plinth?

I have looked at these options. I have also looked at the option of using Sandstone. I have a 75mm thick slab of the stuff sitting in the garage, it weights over 100kg:eek: I did intend having one made out of that;)

Jimbo
25-03-2013, 19:30
Granite has a denser mass than slate so presume this would make it more inert.
However this fact may not translate into it being a better material for resonance isolation. The only absolute way to be sure would be to try two plinths made up from each material.....ahh expensive experiment::scratch:

The Grand Wazoo
25-03-2013, 21:25
Well, the received wisdom is that slate is superior because its structure is similar to that of the commonly used constrained layer wood plinths.

The received wisdom about slate is mainly utter, utter loblocks!!
This is what I understand to be the case:
It is not a layered structure, despite what people think. It is laid down as sediment in a random fashion and not in layers. The reason it is easily cleaved along a relatively flat plane is not because of naturally occurring layers, but because when you split it, the shock waves travel along the line of the force that you apply. In this medium, you get a good clean, flat split because the particles that were deposited were laid down under a relatively even force and they are of a relatively similar diameter due to the force of the water carrying them.

That's not to say that it's not a good material to make a turntable plinth from. It's not to say that the way slate is laid down is not good for making turntable plinths from either, but sometimes people base their pseudo scientific theories on misinformation.

Dingdong
25-03-2013, 21:38
The received wisdom about slate is mainly utter, utter loblocks!!
This is what I understand to be the case:
It is not a layered structure, despite what people think. It is laid down as sediment in a random fashion and not in layers. The reason it is easily cleaved along a relatively flat plane is not because of naturally occurring layers, but because when you split it, the shock waves travel along the line of the force that you apply. In this medium, you get a good clean, flat split because the particles that were deposited were laid down under a relatively even force and they are of a relatively similar diameter due to the force of the water carrying them.

That's not to say that it's not a good material to make a turntable plinth from. It's not to say that the way slate is laid down is not good for making turntable plinths from either, but sometimes people base their pseudo scientific theories on misinformation.


I was chatting to a turntable manufacturer recently. He was telling me that slate is okay, but you need something like silicon at it outer edges for it to dump the vibration into.
I'm contemplating having my slate plinth modified.

Marco
25-03-2013, 21:49
Neither. Quality wood is best:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2305/plinth033.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/plinth033.jpg/)

http://www.layers-of-beauty.co.uk/Page2.html

:)

I still like slate, and consider it a good material from which to make a turntable plinth, but I'm coming more to the conclusion now that high-quality wood, executed in the right way (preferably with some other material sandwiched in between), is the way to go.

That's probably the way I'll go when I buy one of Audio Grail's grey hammerite finished fully-restored 301s (as a second T/T)! I want some nice ebony :exactly:

Marco.

Dingdong
25-03-2013, 21:54
That does look pretty. From what I've read I'm not sure wood and an idler would be the way to go. Maybe some fancy bit of technology under the wood would be good.



Neither. Quality wood is best:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2305/plinth033.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/plinth033.jpg/)

http://www.layers-of-beauty.co.uk/Page2.html

:)

I still like slate, and consider it a good material from which to make a turntable plinth, but I'm coming more to the conclusion now that high-quality wood, executed in the right way, is the way to go.

That's probably the way I'll go when I buy one of Audio Grail's grey hammerite finished fully-restored 301s! I want some nice ebony :exactly:

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo
25-03-2013, 21:55
My thoughts are that wood combined with slate could be very good indeed and that's the way I'm heading with my G99 plinth. The wood part is mainly done but slate will be 'bread' for the sandwich.
So as I tried to point out above, I still think it's a good material but sometimes it winds me up when we are so ready to attribute our (perhaps misinformed) theories as explanations for differences in sound quality.

Marco
25-03-2013, 22:00
My thoughts are that wood combined with slate could be very good indeed and that's the way I'm heading with my G99 plinth. The wood part is mainly done but slate will be 'bread' for the sandwich.


Those are also my thoughts, Chris! Have some Currywurst and a Warsteiner on me ;)

Marco.

synsei
25-03-2013, 22:06
Neither. Quality wood is best:


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2305/plinth033.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/plinth033.jpg/)

http://www.layers-of-beauty.co.uk/Page2.html

:)

I still like slate, and consider it a good material from which to make a turntable plinth, but I'm coming more to the conclusion now that high-quality wood, executed in the right way (preferably with some other material sandwiched in between), is the way to go.

That's probably the way I'll go when I buy one of Audio Grail's grey hammerite finished fully-restored 301s (as a second T/T)! I want some nice ebony :exactly:

Marco.

Ebony rings like a bell though :scratch:

Clive
25-03-2013, 22:13
I tried birch ply CLD plinths in various configuations. All had something special but all had dowsides too. I'm sure wood with extensive development and auditioning would work well with a 301. When I tried slate it was immediately "right". Maybe this was luck but I suspect slate is simply easier to get right first time.

Marco
25-03-2013, 22:16
That does look pretty. From what I've read I'm not sure wood and an idler would be the way to go. Maybe some fancy bit of technology under the wood would be good.


Yup, Mark - makes sense. For me, the main advantage of using different materials for a plinth is that it ensures the sonic characteristics of one specific material don't dominate; much like for the same reason, in a valve amp, you don't use the same makes of valves throughout.

That's why I have Tung-Sol KT120s, Brimar 6SN7s and RCA 5U4s in the copper amp. Even if one manufacturer made all three types of valves, I wouldn't use them all together, for reasons given above. It's about achieving synergy, by mixing and matching the various sonic signatures of the different brands :)

And so it is with turntable plinths, in terms of the materials used....

Marco.

Dingdong
25-03-2013, 22:19
Yup, Mark - makes sense. For me, the main advantage of using different materials for a plinth is that it ensures the sonic characteristics of one specific material don't dominate; much like for the same reason, in a valve amp, you don't use the same makes of valves throughout.

That's why I have Tung-Sol KT120s, Brimar 6SN7s and RCA 5U4s in the copper amp. Even if one manufacturer made all three types of valves, I wouldn't use them all together, for reasons given above. It's about achieving synergy by mixing and matching the various sonic signatures of the different brands :)

And so it is with turntable plinths, in terms of the materials used....

Marco.

Bob from Hush platforms made an interesting plinth for an SP-10 form wood and resin. I haven't heard the result, but it is supposed to be good.

Marco
25-03-2013, 22:29
Ebony rings like a bell though :scratch:

Not *just* ebony, daftee! It would need to be combined with something else ;)

However, there is no doubt that ebony has some enviable sonic characteristics, as I know all too well with Speedy Steve's superb solid-ebony armboards (one of which I use on my Techy). I've never heard any other type of armboard sound better!

Ebony is also used in tonearms by some discerning manufacturers, in conjunction with certain metals. That could also be the way to go with a turntable plinth.

Marco.

YNWaN
25-03-2013, 23:23
I've never heard any other type of armboard sound better!

Which different types have you heard and were they all constructed in the same way?

Marco
25-03-2013, 23:30
Hi Mark,

Aluminium, slate and various types of wood. All the wooden ones were constructed the same way. The aluminium and slate boards were different, and coincidentally or not, by far the worst sounding, creating a rather hard and somewhat relentless/unmusical sound.

Experiments show, however, that the Techy sounds best when fitted with a wooden armboard. I suspect that part of the reason for its often mentioned 'grey' or 'mechanical' sound is down to the vast majority of people, who've replaced the stock arm, using their new tonearms with aluminium armboards, particularly when those arms are Regas.

All this of course is turntable dependent, and possibly arm dependent, too. At some point I'd like to try an armboard made from carbon-fibre. I suspect that I may also like its sonic effect :)

Marco.

YNWaN
25-03-2013, 23:31
...but sometimes people base their pseudo scientific theories on misinformation.

Quite.
____________

For what it is worth, my experience with making and trying different armboard is thus; the material choice certainly does make a difference but, equally, so does the construction and the way the arm is mounted to the board and the board mounted to the chassis (or plinth). Even the level of torque applied to the fixing bolts and the type of bolt used make a difference.

Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2013, 12:02
The debate is coming along nicely I will make some comments tonight. Please let's not drag the 1210 into his thread. I appreciate all the comments on the various woods that are out there and ebony sounds like a possible way forward but probably at quite a large cost. I may buy a baltic birch plinth as a temporary solution until. I can't justify the cost of buying a granite or slate plinth yet until I have heard them. Spending >£1k on a plinth that I haven't heard is bonkers.

Clive
26-03-2013, 12:34
Andrew, you could get a slate plinth made for around £150 to £200

Wakefield Turntables
26-03-2013, 12:39
PM THE DETAILS PLEASE :stalks:

Clive
26-03-2013, 16:55
There's no magic, it's what a few people I know have done. You'd need to do a bit of work on the details....

- get a 301 template
- draw out the cutout needed + the 4 bolt holes
- decide on how you want to mount the arm - research this well, it is the critical aspect for the plinth
- specify what cutout or hole is needed
- find a local stonemason who hopefully has some slate off-cuts, the salte should cost you somethime like £40 to £60, the rest is labour
- go with min 30mm thick slate
- different slate will sound a little different but go with whatever the stonemason has and is happy to work on - get him to cut all the holes and at least do an initial polish of the slate
- finish off polishing the slate with wet 'n dry + some linseed or other oil, use steps up to 600 or 1,200 grit
- get some large spike from ebay
- you may need some spacers under the spikes

If you like the sound and want better + a great finish you can then go to Dom and NWA for a high quality plinth.

Clive
28-03-2013, 12:02
I guess the suggested low cost route doesn't appeal. It's not that hard, really it's not. But it does make one appreciate why commercial offerings cost quite a lot.

Wakefield Turntables
28-03-2013, 12:36
Clive,

Your route is exactly what I have planned. But like most things life gets in the way. I need to find some time to get my arse into gear and organise the production of the plinth. Maybe tonight I make a start..... Watch this space :eyebrows:

Clive
28-03-2013, 12:41
Great to hear Andrew! Whatever you choose re the armboard my experience is that something relatively loosely coupled works best. Ideal is something like a twin tier plinth with the armboard sitting on the lower tier and not touching the top tier - but this is over complex for a first attempt. I have my armboard finger tight so not loose and not rock solid. This area is where most big differences occur.

DiveDeepDog
04-04-2013, 11:11
I know its neither slate or granite, but the 2 tier deck with arm mounted on the lower plank is what I have here;
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8102/8545504974_010b0ddb28_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49381909@N08/8545504974/)
image (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49381909@N08/8545504974/) by levs the diver (http://www.flickr.com/people/49381909@N08/), on Flickr


I've got slate, and heavy ply, but this simple Ikea block plinth sounds as good as the others.

The arm board (Corian) sits on metal studs, fixed down through the centre.

Wakefield Turntables
04-04-2013, 12:02
Your more than welcome to dump your ideas in this thread. It's gives more food for thought and the more opinions I have the better.

SteveO
12-04-2013, 09:38
Hi

I am about to embark on a slate plinth for a 401. Why slate?, well in this instance simply because I have a lump of the stuff to hand. Though I have found that slate works great with Lencos, but for best results the top plate really needs as much contact area with the slate as possible. Easier to achieve with either a PTP type top plate or the simpler top plate of the Lenco light platter models, once converted to heavy platter that is.

This will be my first 401 project, so I don't have the experience that Mark does, but perhaps as the Garrard is only supported around it's outer edge the best choice of plinth material for the Garrards may well be different to the Lencos, or just down to personal preference.

Steve

Wakefield Turntables
12-04-2013, 09:55
Hi

I am about to embark on a slate plinth for a 401. Why slate?, well in this instance simply because I have a lump of the stuff to hand. Though I have found that slate works great with Lencos, but for best results the top plate really needs as much contact area with the slate as possible. Easier to achieve with either a PTP type top plate or the simpler top plate of the Lenco light platter models, once converted to heavy platter that is.

This will be my first 401 project, so I don't have the experience that Mark does, but perhaps as the Garrard is only supported around it's outer edge the best choice of plinth material for the Garrards may well be different to the Lencos, or just down to personal preference.

Steve

Hi Steve, I'm in Wakefield!!!!! nice to see another local audio but ;) I'm having the plinth cut from sandstone and like you I have a massive piece sitting in the garage. It would always be nice to compare materials but i have a funny feeling that my plinth would probably knacker the rear suspension of any vehicle other than perhaps a tank :eek:

SteveO
12-04-2013, 12:20
Hi Andrew,

Wakefield! just up the road from me!

A sandstone plinth would certainly be different, and why not! if you have the material available and can cut it, or get it cut, i would say go for it.

Steve

DiveDeepDog
12-04-2013, 14:32
I have limited experience of slate vs ply.
I don't think there's a huge difference between them, I find it easier to work with wood :-)
Plus being in a constant state of upgrade, it's cheaper


I've just got a Mission 774 tonearm, and must say it's working well. It's just stuck down with double sided tape !

sondale
17-04-2013, 11:50
Hi,

I have recently built a plinth for my GL75 using Corian, this consists of three layers of 12mm Corian on top of two layers of 18mm MDF.

The layers are held together with contact glue, there is no ringing, the whole plinth seems dead. I am using a PTP4 plate and stacked platters with no damping at all, tapping the platters produces a mild thunk!

I have found the Corian to be very easy to work with, much easier than the Panzerholz I used for the SP10 plinth.

The only problem I have found has been sourcing sufficient Corian of the same colour and size.

DiveDeepDog
18-04-2013, 09:40
As you can see, I've used a few offcuts of corian for arm boards.

Its expensive, but may be worth looking up kitchen manufacturers/shop fitters. They often work with solid surfaces. Sink cutouts are almost big enough for a TT.

SteveO
25-04-2013, 05:36
Hi Andrew,

Any progress on the Plinth?

My own 401 is slowly takeing shape, plinth is just about done, and just given the 401 a good service. Just need to make my tonearm mounting collar, and decide on foot options for the plinth.

Steve

Wakefield Turntables
25-04-2013, 08:00
Not much :( I've been playing with tannoy 15" gold monitor speakers and a whest 3.0rdt se phonostage in my 1210 setup, the plinth has taken a backseat for the moment but should be finished in next month or so.

SteveO
02-05-2013, 18:42
Hi Andrew, Hmm........... tannoy 15" gold monitor speakers, thats sound like a whole lota fun,,,,,

Not wanting to hijack your thread, but i have made a little progress.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/velvetsunrise/20130425_175559_zpsfbb802b0.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/velvetsunrise/garrard_zps5c660cf1.jpg

Scuse the grubby mat and feet, and unfinished arm.

Hope to have it at least playing, if not finished for the Bank holiday weekend, and perhaps up to a little shootout with my Lencos.

Wakefield Turntables
02-05-2013, 20:06
Bloody 'ell Steve your making more progress than me mate! I really do need to get my arse into gear and get the plinth finished. You could come over to mine if you like when we both have our plinths finished to compare and contrast? Your only in Leeds, about 9 miles away :cool:

SteveO
03-05-2013, 05:27
Hi

That would be cool Andrew, look forward to it, always nice to meet other members, and of course your more than welcome to pay a visit to Churwell:).

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2013, 07:34
Hi

That would be cool Andrew, look forward to it, always nice to meet other members, and of course your more than welcome to pay a visit to Churwell:).

Yeah, no worries if this project ever gets finished I'll give you a shout.

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2013, 10:28
Steve,

just noticed that you've fixed your tonearm to the main plinth. I've spoken to a few 301'ers who say that this is a bad idea as vibration can easily be loaded into the tonearm from the plinth. I think when I make mine I'll have a seperate tonearm column away from the main plinth:scratch: just a thought, not finalised anything yet. ;)

Andy

SteveO
03-05-2013, 15:40
Hi Andrew, well i am now up and running, bar a little fine tuning of the arm set up.

Early days as only played a couple of albums, but noise wise, its pretty much silent as far as any mechanical or airborn noise from the motor or idler etc.

If i turn the volume up loud, and i mean LOUD, whilst tracking the record run out groove, i can here a little what i believe to be motor noise. Strangely it manifests itself as more of a constant pitch humm rather than a cyclical rumbly noise, if that makes sense,

As i have the deck mounted on a metal TT stand with no base plate, its easy to put my hand undertneath and move the Idler wheel support casting so it disengages the idler wheel from the platter whilst tracking the run out groove.

When i do this the the slight noise disappears totaly, leaving just the ticks from the vinyl. So i am thinking the main noise transfer is from the motor shaft via the idler wheel to the platter.

Whilst in the middle of writing this i rememberd reading about the matchbox/penny stack on plinth, with stylus resting on the matchbox, so just given that a try, again there is a little humm noise when turned up loud.

Hmmm,,,,,,,,interestingly when i disengage the Idler wheel as before, again the noise drops to almost nothing. It would seam to me the motor springs are doing a fine job of isolating the motor from the chassis plate and plinth.

But!,,, at least in my case, it would seem noise is entering both the 401 chassis then plinth through the idler wheel mountings rather than from the motor itself.

Perhaps my Idler wheel mounting gromets may benifit from a little attention.

Sounding really good though, and the noise isnt audble at sane levels whilst playing music. Thing is though, i now know its there!

I shall investigate the Idler wheel mountings.

Just thought i would add for the sake of clarity, with the motor (and platter spinning from its own inertia) and the stylus resting on the plinth. its silent with the idler wheel held off the motor shaft.

Queston? how easy is it to change the 3 idler isolation grommets?

YNWaN
03-05-2013, 16:12
As you can see, I've used a few offcuts of corian for arm boards.

Its expensive, but may be worth looking up kitchen manufacturers/shop fitters. They often work with solid surfaces. Sink cutouts are almost big enough for a TT.

You can buy Corian offcuts on eBay (or similar material). The biggest bit you can normally buy is the size of a sink cut-out (guess why).

Fitters order once the job is placed – I’ve not encountered any who carry it in stock as such. They usually charge by the full sheet, so if you use 1.5 sheets of it, you pay for 2.

In the UK Corian distribution is strictly controlled by their distributor and you have to have an account to buy it (this is not just a question of applying for one). It is only available in full sheet sizes (usually 12mm though some colours are available thinner and thicker) and price depends on what finish/colour/pattern it is).

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2013, 16:54
Queston? how easy is it to change the 3 idler isolation grommets?

Pretty easy but it depends on how confident you feel with dismantling your 401. I completely rebuilt 95% of my 301 with no help. I had to get some work done by NWA but there is no way that I could have done what they did.

SteveO
03-05-2013, 17:07
Quick tempory fix!

I have loosend the 3 nuts slightly that hold the idler wheel mechanism in place, i did this with a nut runner from underneath whilst the stylus was resting on the plinth with the volume turned up.

Wow! this really does effect the amount of noise transmitted into the top plate and then into plinth. The effect was not subtle!!!!

Run out groove is also now as silent as you could wish for!

Andrew after fidling around with my 401 this afternoon, IMHO, and your welcome to come over and hear for youself, that isolating the tonearm isnt essential for low noise, that is not to say isolatian wont also work. But as i have found out the hard way the idler mounting is VERY suceptable to injecting noise into the whole system.

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2013, 18:09
Steve,

Thats good news, I night have a tinker over the weekend.

Andy

PS I'll report back any findings.

SteveO
04-05-2013, 08:26
Hi

Well after an evening of tweaking i must say i am very pleased with the resuting sound.

Much to my surprise the Garrard sounds very different to my PTP Lenco both with essentialy the same plinth, arm and cartridge. Next job some decent feet.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/velvetsunrise/20130504_090318_zpscac8df46.jpg

Wakefield Turntables
04-05-2013, 10:07
Steve,

You have some interesting kit, could you send me a pm of what you've got, I can see some classic naim gear and what looks like some 70s speaker. I only ask because we have similar setups and I always like new ideas for my 301 setup. I'm also going to be tweaking the 301 tonight so I will report back in next day or so. :eek:

Andy

SteveO
04-05-2013, 11:17
pm sent:)

DiveDeepDog
04-05-2013, 11:43
Looks great Steve, be even better with a Black 401 ;-):cool:

Patrick Dixon
05-05-2013, 18:53
Why keep it private?

The decks look great and it would be interesting to hear some more about them and the arms at least.

SteveO
05-05-2013, 20:36
Hello Patrick

i hate to kind of talk over Andrews thread, but i guess its slightly related. And i am sure we are all looking forward to hearing more about Andrews sandstone plinth once completed

Well, the deck in the background is a PTP Lenco, on a 2inch thick slate plinth. I am sure we all know what a PTP Lenco is, but for anyone that dosent, its a 4mm thick stainless steel replacement top plate with seperate motor island, that will accept motor, bearing/platter and idler from a standard L75. Its much more rigid than the thin std Lenco top plate, and it makes for a much simpler plinth cutout, with maximum contact area between plinth and top plate.
Available in the traders section over on LH forum.

I have upgraded the standard bearing housing, for a more substantial solid brass afair with bolt on thrust plate, and oversize bushes. Seems lots of lenco owners are getting into stacked Lenco platters, i did try this but settled on the stack you see in the photo, which is a std Lenco platter with a Michell platter on top, no mat. I made a threaded spindle extension with a screw down clamp as the acrylic or whatever marerial it is made from is quite slippy.
Tonearms are of course based on Frank Schroeders tonearm, i didnt set out deliberatly wanting a tonearm like this, but with a tight budget i just kind of looked around at the possible options for a DIY tonearm, and thought i could possibly make something similar that may actually work. They are all 12inch, one with rosewood wand, and a higher mass ebony wand

The Garrard? well, it was a project that nearly never got off the ground, the 401 had a little cosmetic damage to the front lip, which really started to bug me, i did look at recessed plinth options in attempt to hide the missing paint, but i really wanted to go with a slate plinth, So nothing left to do but have a bash at touching up the paint, it came out ok, not perfect but not bad.

Also Mark(diveddeepdog) a very keen and knowledgable Garrard fan gave me lots of encouragement to plod on and get it finished, and i am very glad i did, thanks Mark:)

The arm mounting collar is 60mm diameter and goes into a 60mm hole in the plinth, 35mm deep, it has a 75mm flange on top so it dosent fall through the hole, with similar though less deep boss made from Delrin underneath these bolt togethor with 3 x M4 allen bolts to effectivley clamp the arm in place through the plinth, like a sandwich.

Sound? well its all very subjective, but breifly as i hear it, the Garrard seems to have a little more finess about its presentation, a little more poise, and better upper midrange texture and clarity, it does sound a litlle smaller than the Lenco which is big and bold.

Sorry for the hijac Andrew

Steve

Rare Bird
05-05-2013, 20:38
Hi

Well after an evening of tweaking i must say i am very pleased with the resuting sound.

Much to my surprise the Garrard sounds very different to my PTP Lenco both with essentialy the same plinth, arm and cartridge. Next job some decent feet.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/velvetsunrise/20130504_090318_zpscac8df46.jpg

I much prefer the silver/black over the blingy gold you often see that people have an attraction too for some reason :scratch: . Yeh get shut of thos gold feet :D

Wakefield Turntables
05-05-2013, 20:46
I have my 301 mounted in 40mm MDF at the moment and it sounds remarkably good. I have a 75mm sandstone plinth on order, I finalised the design tonight. I have been experimenting and have found that like Steve you dont need a seperated isolated tonearm. The mass of the plinth seems to cancel out any potential hum or rumble from the platter into the tonearm. Lets get back on topic now please :D

Patrick Dixon
06-05-2013, 08:03
But the topic's "Slate or Granite" and you're going for Sandstone????

Thanks Steve!

Wakefield Turntables
10-05-2013, 10:39
yep! I'm the author of the thread and I can change my mind if I like so, ner! :ner:

PS Nobody else has done a sandstone so you might learn something new. ;)

Patrick Dixon
11-05-2013, 07:19
Yes, I'm looking forward to it ... and it should look nice at the very least.

Anti Meep
11-05-2013, 07:41
Sandstone sounds worth a shot to me. If it were me I'd go for a dense hardwood but sandstone really does yank my chain more than slate or granite.
One exotic hardwood that interests me is Vitex. If one could get a decent slab of Heart Vitex now that would float my boat.
Craig.