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Beechwoods
12-03-2009, 20:35
I'm coming to the conclusion that my current CD Player (which I've owned for about the last 15 years, a Technics SL-PG520A (http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/slpg520a.jpg)) is limiting my enjoyment of digital sources, and needs to be upgraded. It's a basic machine but I like the jog wheel and it's always been reliable.

What I am looking for as a replacement though is something that has a bit of retro cool about it, in keeping with my other kit. Digital-outs are not a pre-requisite, but good sound reproduction is, sound reproduction of an 'analogue' kind - not hard - sound that might compliment my mid-70's amplification setup.

A tall order? It would be interesting to see if anyone has any ideas... :confused:

NRG
12-03-2009, 21:16
Easy, an early Arcam Alpha based on a TDA1541A. Rounded warm sound that can be easily be made to 'open up' up if desired with some simple component swaps, also Leo is a bit of a wiz on these with loads of experience...

Ali Tait
12-03-2009, 21:16
No idea how they sound,but I liked the look of a couple of Musical Fidelity CDT1's on e bay at the mo.Used to be known as frog eyes coz of the couple of valves in the output stage.Epitomise 70's cool to me!

Audiocom AV
12-03-2009, 22:09
What I am looking for as a replacement though is something that has a bit of retro cool about it, in keeping with my other kit. Digital-outs are not a pre-requisite, but good sound reproduction is, sound reproduction of an 'analogue' kind - not hard - sound that might compliment my mid-70's amplification setup.

Hi Beechwoods,

Vintage players that have an analogue sound, now the Sony CDP-x777ES is one to look out for. The regulation is all discrete, no 78xx regulators, it has twin DAC's, two large linear power supplies. The player is circa 1990,
http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyes/CDPX777ES/CDPX777ES.html

Also, the Accuphase DP65;
http://www.thevintageknob.org/ACCUPHASE/DP65/DP65.html

Expect to pay £450 upwards for a s/h 777ES, and around £1K for the DP65.

Best Wishes
Mark/Audiocom

Marco
12-03-2009, 22:35
Vintage players that have an analogue sound, now the Sony CDP-x777ES is one to look out for. The regulation is all discrete, no 78xx regulators, it has twin DAC's, two large linear power supplies. The player is circa 1990,
http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/s...CDPX777ES.html


Now where have I seen one of those before? :scratch:

:)

Marco.

Spectral Morn
12-03-2009, 22:44
Hi Nick


Marantz CD85, Marantz CD94 mk2 (the mk1 is IMHO not as good). As suggested by NRG both are TDA 1541 multi bit units. AudioComs suggestions are good too. A rare one would be the Audiomeca Obsession Mk2...this has a very analogue sound (the designer Piere Lurne is a legendary TT designer)..this is the only machine in the range that is safe to buy S/H. The others have rare laser mechs, that can't be got if they break. This makes them a very unsafe S/H buy. I hate to say that because I like their sound. Audio Aero have quite an analogue sound (another French machine) a Prima could be an option. Tube Technology Fulcrum/CD 64 CDP has a valve output stage. If you want a new machine the Opera/Consonace no filter 120 model (about £700) has a very analogue sound, nice machine. Ring Allium Audio the distributor and ask for Ian Large say Neil sent you.


Regards D S D L----Neil :)

Beechwoods
13-03-2009, 00:21
Thank you for the recommendations... some really nice machines there, though some a little pricey for me :stalks: :stalks:

I must admit that having done some digging I am very taken by the first Technics CDP, the SL-P10 > http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/SLP10/SLP10.html I love the vertical loading and drop-forward tray. It has a quite unique look to it. I'm going to do some more digging around. It does depend on how pricey they are...

symon
13-03-2009, 10:49
I'd be interested in what you end up getting, Nick. My CD player is a very big weak link in my system, and I think it is also close to giving up the ghost. I suspect my budget will be similar (or even leaner) than yours. So, even if I'm not after the same looks as you, I would be after similar quality at a budget price.

Beechwoods
13-03-2009, 19:23
Hi Peter... I'm definitely in the market for an early machine (early 80's if I can), something a bit special from a historical perspective. That's why I'm drawn to the 1st Gen upright disc transport models (like the Technics above), Dual also did a nice upright loader. To be honest I'm interested to take a punt on one just to see how it sounded. I'm under no illusions that the technology refined as time went on, but the early machines were 'high-end' for their time and a lot of the worst early machines came about as costs were forced through the floor in the race for market share...

If I were in the market for a good quality transport at a great price I'd probably be looking at something like the Pioneer PD-S703. It's an early 90's machine so too late for me TBH, but the transport is legendary and it comes with coax and optical outs, so partnered with a good DAC it can make some great sounds. I know it'd sound better than my current machine. And likely so even without an external DAC. There's one on the bay at the moment if you're quick.

symon
13-03-2009, 20:38
One? There's 4.
You're a naughty man making me look at more things I should buy from ebay! :lol:

Thanks for the recommendation. The price fits very nicely for me, so I shall definitely investigate that further. I think it would have to be the CDP first, with a DAC on the wishlist.

DSJR
14-03-2009, 16:35
Most older players spray a load of ultrasonic and RF mush down the interconnects and mains lead and this was one of the reasons why old Naim and Quad pre-amps went ape when used with CD (the Quad 33 had an overload problem too).

The old Arcam Alpha had a sting in its tail and this was a transport/jitter problem. If I were you, I'd save for an Avondale AAA5, which has a tweaked circuit and also Les can supply refurbished CDM9 mechs. He also does a souped up version of the Naim CD3 (ACD3) and both of these vintage players sound amazingly good apparently, with "texture" and "atmosphere" aplenty. he may do an SOR scheme on these too, so ask!!!

Machines from 1983 or so don't sound good, no matter how well built they are. The first Philips and Marantz models give me a headache and the Sony 101, although tonally correct, doesn't "do" atmosphere at all well by comparison with even cheap modern players IMO. The very best of the early top loading Philips 14 bit machines is by far the Meridian MCD-Pro. I had one for some years (replaced by the better 207) but it still didn't "do" spatial depth. After the 207, Meridian's went a bit coloured, changing to suit market (WTF reviewers'?) tastes.

may I suggest a few old cheapies which "may" be servicable still?

:-

Nad 500 series (rather than the 300 baby models) - clear and nothing seriously annoying.

Denon DCD 1015 (I think it was). Clear, natural acoustics but a touch "loose" in presentation

Arcam Alpha 5 (can be Avondaled later). Their Delta 70.2 was good but no spares when the laser expires.

Quad 66CD. Unfairly unloved and an excellent implementation of the Philips 16 bit chipset. Needs a high capacity mains filter and smooth interconnects with ferrites and then sounds great. makes a superb transport too! The 67 had a cheaper chipset, but avoids the possible matching problems of the 66.

Marantz CD80. Solid and good sounding. replaced by the Bitstream CD10, which over-eggs the analogue pudding to me.

Philips CD850 - A dream to use if not as fast as the Sony's of the late eighties. Sweet sound and great as a transport I found.

Pioneer CD91 - If you can find one, this was a lovely machine to listen to and operate. My old mate Jimmy Hughes had one for review for around six months and it communicated the music well to my ears.

Sony 502/505/555ES - A bit "whiter-than-white" in the treble but lovely to use. Spares may be difficult now though.

Micro-Seiki CDM2/100 - Based on the CD94 Marantz, there is a transformer coupled balanced output board added, along with beefing the case up even more. Clean and three dimensional, both these machines were the first CD players to give a proper "walk-in" sound stage, which gets better with the system even now.

Copland - almost any of them - The 288 remains a firm favourite, with a musical and involving sound and a lovely TEAC VRDS mech to delight you. The 289 was like a mini Linn CD12 to my ears, presenting everything in a tidy but clear way.


May I say that all the Philips based players seem to respond well to having their clock circuits replaced with something a bit more sophisticated.

Rega Planet or Jupiter/Io. Good, reliable, tweakable (look on the Acoustica site for Planet tweaks) and very involving to listen to.


Lastly, and a personal favourite - AVI S2000CD. Crap to operate compared to the Jap competition, but great sound with weight, solidity and dynamic drive aplenty, but with some delicacy too. Sounds superb in a "wide open" monitoring system as there's no harshness at all and the CDM9 "Engine" could possibly be looked at by Les at Avondale. I heard one where the output chips and caps were replaced with "better" ones and the resulting sound was too brightly lit and went all "HiFi," bass weight and power being traded for "deeeetaaaaiiiillll" in the treble Loading gears can be got from third parties on eBay and this is really all that fails at present.

I thinks that's more than enough and there's dozens I've no doubt left out. The thing is, a humble Cambridge or the lates Arcam or Rega baby players would almost certainly see most of the above heavyweights from yesteryear off now.

symon
23-03-2009, 22:29
If I were in the market for a good quality transport at a great price I'd probably be looking at something like the Pioneer PD-S703.

I'll let you know how good it is in a few days I hope. I just got this pre-fettled one for what I think is a pretty good price (certainly good enough for me to feel comfortable buying it when I really shouldn't :) )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290302989091

Oooh, I can't wait! :gig:

Beechwoods
23-03-2009, 22:48
An excellent price! Well done!

symon
23-03-2009, 22:51
Good, I'm glad you think so. To be honest, I think the modifications alone are worth more than what I paid. I could almost say I got some modifications with a free cdp! :lolsign:

Beechwoods
23-03-2009, 23:02
I think you're right :) The feet along cost a tenner, same for the plug, give or take! But it's the time and effort to make these changes that's the best thing about a pre-tweaked machine, especially if like me you're not much of a tweaker if you can help it.

That was a bonafide bargain you got there. It'll sound great straight off, and even better when you get it partnered with a good DAC later, and great DACs are pretty affordable these days..... :)

symon
23-03-2009, 23:04
It's even got its own tin foil hat!

Yes, a DAC would be good, but I shall have to wait a while before getting one. Besides, I want to get used to how it sounds without the DAC so that I can appreciate the (any) improvements by getting a DAC.

Beechwoods
23-03-2009, 23:10
Absolutely. I'm in the same place as you, tbh. A DAC is on the list, but not a priority, yet. Having heard the Beresford at the bake-off though I was mightily impressed, and compared with so much gear these days, at it's price point, there's very little risk. The point is though - if you're happy with the sound you're getting, why worry, just enjoy the music!

symon
25-03-2009, 12:35
Ooh - it's at home waiting for me! :eyebrows: Only another 7 hours before I get to play with it :doh:

Ali Tait
25-03-2009, 17:42
I've got a 505 and it sounds rather decent on it's own.Sounds better with a Beresford,but not a great deal!

symon
25-03-2009, 22:29
:stalks::wow:

Beechwoods
25-03-2009, 22:39
Best 41 quid plus postage ever?

symon
25-03-2009, 22:48
I'm still grinning with amazement!!!
Talk about money well spent. It puts my current record player to shame.

symon
25-03-2009, 22:54
I don't want to go to work tomorrow. I want to stay at home and play CDs all day!!

leo
25-03-2009, 23:04
I had to add a reply:) The PDS-703 was the first cdp I ever tinkered with, infact it was the first thing that got me into diy!
Good memories:cool:

No, thats not my cdp for sale BTW, I got rid of mine years ago
I remember one mod I did was to do with the filtering before the op-amp stage, then the standard op-amp could not cope with it so I upgraded that next.
I then did some tinkering with the psu, I then fitted a Trichord clock.
It was a good learning experience, a mate I gave it to later was well chuffed with it, he actually liked it better than his Arcam Alpha9

symon
25-03-2009, 23:08
To me it sounds astonishing! It will take me a while to get used to it.

It has already had some mods done to it, which I'll list here when I get the chance - and remember what they are. Off the top of my head, the top of the case has been strengthened and lined with foil, it has foculpods for feet, the mains cable haas been replaced and some other stuff. I'll get the full list up over the next few days.

All I know is that it is better than anything I have ever owned and currently outplays vinyl. Which just means I need to get my tt sorted out.

twelvebears
27-03-2009, 18:07
The two players that I've owned and now wish I'd held onto were a Marantz CD85 (which I gave to a mate with a Meridian DAC and he's still using) and a Sony SCD-777ES.

I'd love to have the latter back again.

I probably wouldn't use it much now my whole collection is now losslessly stored on my iMac, but there was just endless fun to be had with the CD puck and the missile-silo top-loading door. :-)

Spectral Morn
27-03-2009, 18:54
The two players that I've owned and now wish I'd held onto were a Marantz CD85 (which I gave to a mate with a Meridian DAC and he's still using) and a Sony SCD-777ES.

I'd love to have the latter back again.

I probably wouldn't use it much now my whole collection is now losslessly stored on my iMac, but there was just endless fun to be had with the CD puck and the missile-silo top-loading door. :-)


Hi Twelvebears....

I still have an 85 which I got for the laser as my Marantz CD94mk2 uses the same a Philips CM1. I too had a Sony SCD-777es...best and most silent SACD mechanism ever IMHO....totally silent. You could put your ear to the lid.............. .......................... SILENCE, as it should be. I am working on getting it back. CD playback was okay but SACD playback was quite good.


Regards D S D L

Tom472
02-04-2009, 13:27
People might shout at me for this suggestion, but maybe a B&O Beogram, the earlier ones were top loading I believe - and they all look pretty retro cool to me.

Also use the same Philips CDM mech and DAC as others suggested - you do have to put up with no remote control, and only two buttons though (I've never felt the need for anything more)...

Theadmans
04-04-2009, 18:24
To me it sounds astonishing! It will take me a while to get used to it.

It has already had some mods done to it, which I'll list here when I get the chance - and remember what they are. Off the top of my head, the top of the case has been strengthened and lined with foil, it has foculpods for feet, the mains cable haas been replaced and some other stuff. I'll get the full list up over the next few days.

All I know is that it is better than anything I have ever owned and currently outplays vinyl. Which just means I need to get my tt sorted out.

Glad you are enjoying your pd-s703 - I looked at that one myself on eBay - looks like you got a bargain. I bought a mint pd-s705 myself a couple of months ago for £39 - to use with the old model Dacmagic 2 - sounds superb to me. The Stable Platter mech seems very slick to me compared with my previous cd player (Marantz CD63 Ki Sig). Does anyone know the difference between the pd-s703 and pd-s705 as Pioneer's model numbering system confuses the c**p out of me!

This may also interest you:-

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Pioneer_703/pioneer703.html

symon
04-04-2009, 21:07
I was looking at a picture of a 705 earlier and, if I remember right, it doesn't have a spdif output, which the the 703 does have.

That link looks good. I don't understand most of it! But, I suspect a lot of the mods that were done to mine were to answer some of the complaints he raises before doing his own mods.

And is that really two valves he put in there? Weird!

Theadmans
05-04-2009, 08:20
I was looking at a picture of a 705 earlier and, if I remember right, it doesn't have a spdif output, which the the 703 does have.

That link looks good. I don't understand most of it! But, I suspect a lot of the mods that were done to mine were to answer some of the complaints he raises before doing his own mods.

And is that really two valves he put in there? Weird!

Actually the UK model of the 705 has both coaxial and optical outputs (other countries only get optical). Given this there seems very little difference between the 703 and 705 (although the chart on the Lampizator site shows a different code for the lens and stable platter mech).

I haven't done any internal mods to mine yet, however, I have stood it on a Tesco Finest Granite Chopping board plus 4 x Yellow Dot Squash balls. Plus added a Tesco Finest Granite Cheese board on top for extra damping.

I kind of understand the addition of valves to the output stage (many high end cd players have this). I am not a DIY expert so I added a Musical Fidelity Tube Buffer between my Dacmagic and Amp - this gives a warmer sound with perceived extended bass. See pic of my rig here :-

http://theadmans.fileave.com/129_2999.JPG

:):):):):)

DSJR
05-04-2009, 09:46
People might shout at me for this suggestion, but maybe a B&O Beogram, the earlier ones were top loading I believe - and they all look pretty retro cool to me.

Also use the same Philips CDM mech and DAC as others suggested - you do have to put up with no remote control, and only two buttons though (I've never felt the need for anything more)...

The CDX was the one!!!!!

I deliberately forgot to mention this one, as B&O gets a very hard time on other "HiFi" forums - not totally undeserved - but the CDX and the Mission DAD7000R (both CDM1 equipped) showed me that CD had some future. Both of these players need to warm up though for an hour or two, but neither would do "air and space" like a modern budget priced player I think.

pulsestudio
05-04-2009, 13:12
Hi Nick

I have used and still have the following CDP's

Marantz CD80: built like a tank and very, very capable of superb depth and detail retrival, but considered by some to be a bit punchy, thick, ballsy, yes it packs a punch but it has detail in droves, S/H price around £200-270

Rega Planet 2000: a good player but a little too analogue IMHO, personally I feel that the mid band is a little recessed and the bass a little soft, so needs carefull system matching, but a good performer for around £200 S/H, the earlier Planet is tweakable but have not seen any mods for the Planet 2000 :(

Arcam Alpha 5: ( Avondaled by Les ) around £60 for the basic unit S/H and then about £450 for the Avondale up-grade, you can find them with the AAA5 up-grade for around £350-380 and well worth the money IMHO, this machine is probably the best performer of the 3 suggested and I own them all, but my CD80 has had no tweaks and it fights for first place, there is also a very desirable Revox CDP the B225/226, these are supposedly very capable machines and have an almost cult following with legendary status, can't comment on the performance as I have never owned one, sadly :(

all of the above feature the now universally recognised and highly regarded Philips TDA1541 DAC and SAA7200, which, when the oversampling function is disabled and fitted with a Tentlabs clock will perform to a very high spec, and will trounce most CDP's up to and above £1000, and this simple and cheap mod can be performed on all the above mentioned, Planet 2000 being the only exception.
PM me for more info if you decide to go this route Nick.
Paul

Beechwoods
09-04-2009, 18:58
I've just bought one of these...

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/700px-HitachiDA-1000_7.jpg

It's Hitachi's 1st CD Player, and the basis for a whole load of 1st Gen CDP clones at the time. The pic is from http://www.hifi-wiki.de/index.php/Hitachi_DA-1000 and there are bunch of other pics on that site, including one showing how the door works... the early designers were obviously thinking CD would be used like a tape deck :)

Other info...

http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/DA1000/DA1000.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeGVfnZw4L4

It's got a 14 bit Burr Brown PCM53P DAC. If anyone knows what happens to the other 2 bits, let me know.

symon
09-04-2009, 19:30
Nice! That will fit in with the rest of your kit nicely.

Spectral Morn
10-04-2009, 09:12
Glad you are enjoying your pd-s703 - I looked at that one myself on eBay - looks like you got a bargain. I bought a mint pd-s705 myself a couple of months ago for £39 - to use with the old model Dacmagic 2 - sounds superb to me. The Stable Platter mech seems very slick to me compared with my previous cd player (Marantz CD63 Ki Sig). Does anyone know the difference between the pd-s703 and pd-s705 as Pioneer's model numbering system confuses the c**p out of me!

This may also interest you:-

http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Pioneer_703/pioneer703.html

Thanks for posting the link Theadmans. Very interesting the Lampizator is a very talented guy IMHO.


Regards D S D L

baron
11-04-2009, 13:33
:) Nice player Nick, looks great. My first CD player was a
JVC XL-V1 cost somthing like £525.00 when it came out. :eyebrows:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/XLV1/XLV1.html

The Grand Wazoo
11-04-2009, 13:46
I love the groovy triangular power switch!!!!!

Well, done Nick, I hope you're very happy together!

Spectral Morn
11-04-2009, 13:48
My first two cd players were all faulty from the get go or after a month or so. First was an Audio Technica (same as the cart-re-badged but of what I don't know)and a Philips which was faulty fixed and then faulty again...the repair guy forced the drawer open forgetting to take the transit bolts out. I got a nice Marantz Cd 273se as compensation, very tasty. Next up a Marantz 65se then a Marantz Cd85 then the Marantz94 mk2.

http://www.gumtree.com/posting_images/34/35564634__1236032530__1__1-3d281feb87e228af7c5b489eb3059b1e.__big__.jpg

Beechwoods
11-04-2009, 15:38
:) Nice player Nick, looks great. My first CD player was a JVC XL-V1 cost somthing like £525.00 when it came out. :eyebrows:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/DAD/XLV1/XLV1.html

Well it could just of easily have been a JVC that I ended up getting. I shortlisted about 8 of the vertical loading players featured on TVK and the Hitachi was the first to come up. The JVC is a nice looking machine. As TVK points out, it's a clone of the the DA-1000. Suffice to say mine cost only slightly more than a tenth your JVC did new!

Looks-wise, the Technics, Pioneer, Kenwood, Dual and Toshiba vertical loaders are most attractive. The Hitachi looks very 80's though. Perhaps that is a good thing! If I can find any of the other CDPs I may well get them in for a look and work out which one I want to keep. I have been bitten by a bit of a bug I think!


I love the groovy triangular power switch!!!!!

That switch has magical properties Chris. It's colour has a unique correlation to the DAC within. The one I've got is Silver. Silver is gooood. Silver = Burr Brown... the earlier Blue switch was partnered with the earlier Hitachi HA16633P D/A... nowadays they would just relaunch the product with a 'Mk II' badge and a complete fascia restyle!

Cheers chaps!

Beechwoods
08-07-2009, 20:30
This just in today!

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods/ToshibaXR-Z900c.jpg

A Toshiba XR-Z90 1st Gen vertical loading CDP.

I think it must have been the deal of the century, because I picked it up for £9.99 and it's available here (http://www.audio-extasa.eu/toshiba-xrz90-vertical-compact-disc-player-p-766.html) for $718 :)

And here, for €559 http://www.audioscope.net/toshiba-xrz90-p-814.html :lol:

It's in fantastic condition, weighs a ton and sounds great!

The eBay Gods were smiling on me :)

symon
08-07-2009, 20:33
Wow! Looks like a tape deck! I wonder if it will be as much fun as the Hitachi?

Maybe we should do our own CDP bake off as well! ;)

Beechwoods
08-07-2009, 20:38
Wow! Looks like a tape deck! I wonder if it will be as much fun as the Hitachi?

Maybe we should do our own CDP bake off as well! ;)

I think this machine is higher-end than the Hitachi, but the door on the Hitachi is motor controlled. This one is manual. It looks great atop my DA-20 :) And you know the only reason I'm so fascinated with these decks is the fact they think they're tape decks :mental: :mental: ;)

We need to get that bake-off sorted. I want to hear your Revox! A friend has just invested in a B710...

twelvebears
21-07-2009, 06:48
The early CDP that I'd LOVE to get my hands on would be the Meridian MCD...

I always just loved the way it looked and I love top-loaders!

Why oh why did I EVER get rid of my Sony 777ES! What was I thinking! :(

Marco
21-07-2009, 20:04
You had an X-777ES and you let it go? Oh dear, you are a very mad boy! :eyebrows:

I bet you replaced it with something newer and, errm, 'better', too...

Marco.

twelvebears
10-09-2009, 11:37
You had an X-777ES and you let it go? Oh dear, you are a very mad boy! :eyebrows:

I bet you replaced it with something newer and, errm, 'better', too...

Marco.

I was a bloody idiot, that's what I was!

I'd just aquired my M3 amp and absolutely loved it and got carried away and traded the 777 in against the 3D CDP to go with it.....

Muppet.

Apart from anything else, the sheer beauty of the way the 777 was put together would have made it worth keeping......

Grrrrrrrr!!!

Spectral Morn
13-09-2009, 14:33
I was a bloody idiot, that's what I was!

I'd just aquired my M3 amp and absolutely loved it and got carried away and traded the 777 in against the 3D CDP to go with it.....

Muppet.

Apart from anything else, the sheer beauty of the way the 777 was put together would have made it worth keeping......

Grrrrrrrr!!!

We've all done things like that. I had a Sony SCD 777es (second Sony SCAD top loader, baby SCD S1), fabulous build, silent drive mech even while playing SACD (they spin much faster), but despite the looks, build etc it was not great with cds (very good with Sacd though), the Marants SA11 was sonicaly better, but noisy on Sacd playback. I got rid of it and eventually got a Marantz Sa7 much, much better but the Sony's mech was and is the best Sacd mech so far IMHO/E. I miss it. A friend has it, but I can't buy it back and I don't have anything to swop for it and its huge too...I have a lack of room for such big items.

http://www.purecable.co.kr/%EC%A0%9C%ED%92%88%20%EC%84%A4%EB%AA%85/%EC%86%8C%EB%8B%88%20%EC%A0%9C%ED%92%88%20%EC%84%A 4%EB%AA%85/SCD-777ES/SCD-777ES%20%EC%B8%A1%EB%A9%B4%20%EC%83%81%EB%8B%A8.jp g


Regards D S D L

Rare Bird
05-10-2009, 12:28
I've done some stoopid things in my time flogging bits & bobs..Always liked top end Sony CDP's..They just sound right...

Most really early players were build around philips units ..Cambridge Audio 'CD1', Mission DAD7000, Meridian 'MCD/PRO' I've noticed a lot of intrest in early players, maybe cos the Mechs were very well built back then..

If i was to splash out it would deffo be a used Sony SCD-1..The picture deosnt do it any justice.. (Not intrested in SACD btw)

http://www.avland.co.uk/sony/scd1/scd1sideonbig.jpg

DSJR
05-10-2009, 13:39
This just in today!

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/beechwoods/ToshibaXR-Z900c.jpg

A Toshiba XR-Z90 1st Gen vertical loading CDP.

I think it must have been the deal of the century, because I picked it up for £9.99 and it's available here (http://www.audio-extasa.eu/toshiba-xrz90-vertical-compact-disc-player-p-766.html) for $718 :)

And here, for €559 http://www.audioscope.net/toshiba-xrz90-p-814.html :lol:

It's in fantastic condition, weighs a ton and sounds great!

The eBay Gods were smiling on me :)

Wanna swap it for an M75ED as they're worth about the same......? :D

Cart in the post first class, but may take a few days 'cos of strikes etc.....

Barry
05-10-2009, 14:05
I've done some stoopid things in my time flogging bits & bobs..Always liked top end Sony CDP's..They just sound right...

Most really early players were build around philips units ..Cambridge Audio 'CD1', Mission DAD7000, Meridian 'MCD/PRO' I've noticed a lot of intrest in early players, maybe cos the Mechs were very well built back then..

If i was to splash out it would deffo be a used Sony SCD-1..The picture deosnt do it any justice.. (Not intrested in SACD btw)

http://www.avland.co.uk/sony/scd1/scd1sideonbig.jpg

I would love to have one of these just for the 'laboratory' build. Great with SACDs, but only OK with CDs.

Still sticking with my Sony CDP 720E, not the best player but I like the use of the filters. Will possibly upgrade in the New Year.

Regards

Rare Bird
05-10-2009, 14:32
I would love to have one of these just for the 'laboratory' build. Great with SACDs, but only OK with CDs.

Still sticking with my Sony CDP 720E, not the best player but I like the use of the filters. Will possibly upgrade in the New Year.

Regards


Aye i have a Sony XB930 UK Spec CDP i use for CDr's as the Micromega don't like em too much...I love the fixed lazer mech on this, the best way of doing it IMHO

(Sorry about bad pic)

Covenant
09-11-2009, 22:25
I have a Sony CDP-X920E. It just gives the impression it will never break. Sounds excellent and cost all of £50.

sisore
03-12-2009, 13:14
Hi there!

I was googling as I met this thread. I read that some of you are interested in Vintage CD Players.
I suggest that you visit my Website http://vintage-audio-laser.com/

By the way, I am searching for any documents about early players, to include in this site.

If you own any ad, or magazine review please contact me using the "contact" link on the main page.

Of course, I would be glad to share any experience with these players here.

vintage-audio-laser is a french language website. I intend to make it become a bilingual website in the near future, and I am searching for someone to help in translation.

Maybe someone here?

:)

Kind regards from France.

Rare Bird
03-12-2009, 13:58
Nice one
Try get some info on the Cambridge Audio CD-1 Machine

sisore
03-12-2009, 14:19
Nice one
Try get some info on the Cambridge Audio CD-1 Machine


It would be nice! I only have one picture of this player.:confused:

The Vinyl Adventure
03-12-2009, 14:29
sisore
there is a bit of a tradition on this site for intorducing your self in the the welcome section and posting photos of your own kit in the gallery. if you explain who you are and what you are trying to do there you might well get more of a response

sisore
03-12-2009, 14:40
sisore
there is a bit of a tradition on this site for intorducing your self in the the welcome section and posting photos of your own kit in the gallery. if you explain who you are and what you are trying to do there you might well get more of a response


That's ok!

I will in the next few hours! ;)

Rare Bird
03-12-2009, 14:51
It would be nice! I only have one picture of this player.:confused:

That will do..I'll just go get in the shower ready :eyebrows:

sisore
03-12-2009, 14:55
That will do..I'll just go get in the shower ready :eyebrows:


I see we are both "fond of" progressive rock ;)

sisore
03-12-2009, 17:37
sisore
there is a bit of a tradition on this site for intorducing your self in the the welcome section and posting photos of your own kit in the gallery. if you explain who you are and what you are trying to do there you might well get more of a response


Ok for the tradition. that's done! :)

Rare Bird
03-12-2009, 17:40
I see we are both "fond of" progressive rock ;)

Men of great taste ;)

Can we have a flash at your Cambridge 'CD-1' picture then

:flasher:

sisore
03-12-2009, 18:02
Here it is: :)

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/cambridgecd1last3.jpg


Should I reduce?

Rare Bird
03-12-2009, 18:17
:rave:

What happened to that? ..Have you got a pic of the production set?

sisore
03-12-2009, 18:30
I only have this pict. anything wrong? :scratch: :)

Rare Bird
03-12-2009, 18:37
I only have this pict. anything wrong? :scratch: :)

no just wanted a pic of the set in its original form!

sisore
03-12-2009, 18:54
no just wanted a pic of the set in its original form!

Yes, I would like it too! :confused:

:)

sisore
04-12-2009, 08:35
Here are some Picts showing a part of my Vintage CD players collection.

I bought some rare models from Japan. The pictures were taken in my private show room, and a French magazine ( the most famous I believe :scratch:) came for an "interview" and a publication followed a few months later.

The result of a ten years' labour.

It's just for sharing ;)


http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_0.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_1.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_5.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_4.jpg


Many players are missing here, such as a SONY dedicated rack which isn't on the pictures.
This shows more or less half of my collection.


Don't hesitate to comment!

The Grand Wazoo
04-12-2009, 09:56
I only have this pict. anything wrong? :scratch: :)

Hi & welcome to the Art of Sound. I think that what Andre means & you may not realise is that the photo you have is of a non-standard Cambridge CD-1. Someone has changed this one by adding the timber fascia(s).

I tried to hotlink a pic here, but it came out massively large.
Take a look here at post 27:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1892/cd11e.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php%3Fp%3D254784&usg=__-4ee3hcTS_fg8W7FOCo64JPyVqo=&h=2550&w=3510&sz=980&hl=en&start=3&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=4jp-BunT2E2soM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522cambridge%2Baudio%2Bcd1%2522%26h l%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DKUK_en-GBGB250GB250%26um%3D1

Rare Bird
04-12-2009, 10:01
Hi & welcome to the Art of Sound. I think that what Andre means & you may not realise is that the photo you have is of a non-standard Cambridge CD-1. Someone has changed this one by adding the timber fascia(s).

I tried to hotlink a pic here, but it came out massively large.
Take a look here at post 27:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1892/cd11e.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php%3Fp%3D254784&usg=__-4ee3hcTS_fg8W7FOCo64JPyVqo=&h=2550&w=3510&sz=980&hl=en&start=3&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=4jp-BunT2E2soM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522cambridge%2Baudio%2Bcd1%2522%26h l%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DKUK_en-GBGB250GB250%26um%3D1

Ah brilliant Chris, that's it the three boxer..Should be 14 bit philips jobbie same as the Mission 7000..This Cambridge had a great error reader employed..Was one on e-bay youks ago i got outbidded..Would love one

The Grand Wazoo
04-12-2009, 10:15
I think the third box - with the error reader on it was optional. I'm probably wrong though!

Rare Bird
04-12-2009, 10:20
Yes Chris it was optional...With one of those it can be proven that modern CD's have more errors than first generation discs..cos it's true.

Last proper Cambridge player the 'CD-2' was a good one 16bit machine this time, uses an handfull of TDA1541's aswell...

Kris
04-12-2009, 10:32
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_4.jpg



:eek: :stalks: :youtheman:

Umm, Pics of your Sony stack please. Pretty please.

I used to have a Technics SL-P10 until it broke. Very heavy, full of electronics, amazing player. I still have my first Cd player, a Marantz CD63B (the original that is, they should never have reused the name for a later model). Still in perfect working order and plays CDRs as well!

The Vinyl Adventure
04-12-2009, 16:38
Here are some Picts showing a part of my Vintage CD players collection.

I bought some rare models from Japan. The pictures were taken in my private show room, and a French magazine ( the most famous I believe :scratch:) came for an "interview" and a publication followed a few months later.

The result of a ten years' labour.

It's just for sharing ;)


http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_0.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_1.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_5.jpg

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/rack_forum_4.jpg


Many players are missing here, such as a SONY dedicated rack which isn't on the pictures.
This shows more or less half of my collection.


Don't hesitate to comment!



Blimey!! thats some kind of cd player collection ... thats probably more cd players than the average person has actual cds!!

Alex_UK
04-12-2009, 18:34
BLOODY HELL! I've never seen anything like it in my life! Amazing, thanks for sharing !

sisore
04-12-2009, 18:42
Hi!
I am quite busy at the moment, but I will post some more pictures

:)

The Vinyl Adventure
04-12-2009, 18:44
I'm actually going to comment again, that really is very very impresive! Kudos on commitment to your cause!
What's the least and what's the most you have spent on a cd player? Does this corrolate with the best and worst quality? What would you say is the best value player in your collection, and what's your favorite?
I really hope you find someone to help you translate your site into English for you I can imagine it would make very interesting Reading!

Come on everyone, someone must know someone who could help this chap translate.. And all you old fuggys with your mag collections - get scanning those old reviews, this chap is obviously commited to this cause and I recon he desurves all the help he can get!

Dint we have some people on this forum who are involved with magazines, could you get old reviews to him? How about getting readers to dig out old reviews?

sisore
04-12-2009, 18:55
I am very sensitive to your post!

Here in France, people never really realised how difficult task it was to repair all these players. I worked very late in the evening for so many years to put this collection up!

Sorry again for my english!:o

I will reply to all your questions, in a humble way, as soon as I can.

Thanks a lot for all your comments. :grouphug:

:)

The Vinyl Adventure
04-12-2009, 19:01
Your English is far, far better than my French so I wouldn't worry! Some people might even tell you your English is better than my English :)

Beechwoods
04-12-2009, 19:47
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/smilies/confused0053.gif

Extraordinary collection Stan. I can understand the attraction! I have one of the nicest early CDPs I feel, in the XR-Z90 (http://www.audiopower.ru/images/shop/items/x9re8vbeqskqh00uqj8my.jpg), though the Kenwood LO3DP is a great looking deck too..

http://www.real-audio.ru/measurements/misc/xrz90/l03dp.jpg

And the Technics SL-P10

http://www.vintagetechnics.info/images/slp10catalog.jpg

I love those old vertical loading CDPs!

Themis
04-12-2009, 19:50
This is an astonishing collection Stan, I'm speechless and full of admiration for all this patient and useful work you've accomplished so far. :youtheman:

sisore
04-12-2009, 20:02
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/smilies/confused0053.gif

Extraordinary collection Stan. I can understand the attraction! I have one of the nicest early CDPs I feel, in the XR-Z90 (http://www.audiopower.ru/images/shop/items/x9re8vbeqskqh00uqj8my.jpg), though the Kenwood LO3DP is a great looking deck too..

http://www.real-audio.ru/measurements/misc/xrz90/l03dp.jpg

And the Technics SL-P10

http://www.vintagetechnics.info/images/slp10catalog.jpg

I love those old vertical loading CDPs!

Ok!!

I own the whole Toshiba XR-Z90 family. I have 3 or 4 Kenwood L-03DP, among which one is brand new in box.
As far as Technics is concerned, it's my favourite brand (we all have one, don't we?), as you may have noticed on my website.

The only Technics vintage player missing is SL-P15 (Multi-disc player), but I will catch it soon, I hope.

I managed to find a SL-P10 in silver (VERY rare), from Japan, and it's working like a new :)

In fact, I have several SL-P10, and this one is of my favourites.

Ok I am going to pick one picture, I don't know which player.

Just for illustration, I will add pictures regularly.

The Vinyl Adventure
04-12-2009, 20:16
I want a vertical loading cd player!! They are proper cool looking!

Beechwoods
04-12-2009, 20:18
The CD Player that thinks it's a tape deck! You can see where the designers got their cues :)

sisore
04-12-2009, 20:20
For you Kris!

Here are two pictures showing the Marantz CD63B:

I have more than 10 thousands vintage players' pictures on my computer (for my website)

I will illustrate from time to time ;)


http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum1.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum2.jpg

Kris
04-12-2009, 21:13
That second pic is interesting. I've never taken mine apart so have never known what it looks like inside.

I really wish my SL-P10 hadn't died on me. It was a beautiful player. Probably my favourite. Press the button and it would present the disc to you. I called it Bonzo, and whenever it presented me with a disc I said 'Thanks Bonzo' :o

sisore
04-12-2009, 21:18
If you want to see how your CD63B was made inside, have a look here (3 pages )

;)


http://vintage-audio-laser.com/Marantz-CD63-Black

sisore
04-12-2009, 21:21
That second pic is interesting. I've never taken mine apart so have never known what it looks like inside.

I really wish my SL-P10 hadn't died on me. It was a beautiful player. Probably my favourite. Press the button and it would present the disc to you. I called it Bonzo, and whenever it presented me with a disc I said 'Thanks Bonzo' :o

SL-P10 was very fragile.

The weakest vintage player's laser units ever , probably. :(

The Grand Wazoo
05-12-2009, 01:02
So then Stan,
Can you tell us what the atttraction for these things is for you?

Rare Bird
05-12-2009, 01:28
For you Kris!

Here are two pictures showing the Marantz CD63B:

I have more than 10 thousands vintage players' pictures on my computer (for my website)

I will illustrate from time to time ;)

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum2.jpg

I bought the Meridian MCD-Pro when it came out, it was a serious player back then & quite thin on the ground these days..Any close up pics to drool over for old times sake??

sisore
05-12-2009, 10:06
I bought the Meridian MCD-Pro when it came out, it was a serious player back then & quite thin on the ground these days..Any close up pics to drool over for old times sake??

Here are pics from my MCD-pro. I still haven't incuded these pictures in my website. ;)

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum9.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum3.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum4.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum6.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum5.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum8.jpg
http://vintage-audio-laser.com/forum/photoperso/forum7.jpg

sisore
05-12-2009, 10:07
So I am gonna try to bring some answers to the questions that were asked in the previous posts.

sisore
05-12-2009, 10:50
So then Stan,
Can you tell us what the atttraction for these things is for you?

I think that the first and second generations of players were the best ever made considering the CD mechanisms.
I avoid (in my website) talking about the quality of sound they produce. This isn't interesting, for me.
None of these old machines can equal today's players. It was like a challenge, at first: gathering all the early players, and trying to fix them up.
As a HIFI technician, I mostly enjoyed disassembling the players, and finding out a different mecha assembly in each player.

This work allowed to see which were the best technical solutions applied, knowing that most of the players have now diappeared, and that old magazines couldn't give interesting and objective opinions, because the CD format was new. It's now time for a complete comparison, in retrospect.

My conclusions (subjective conclusions however), are the content of my website. That's why I would really like to translate this content, and then share opinions with people so as to modify this sort of data base.

Hope you can read me ;)

The Grand Wazoo
05-12-2009, 11:04
OK, so you were purely interested in comparing the mechanical engineering employed by several different groups of engineers who were all trying to solve the same (new) problems simultaneously but independantly?

sisore
05-12-2009, 11:18
I'm actually going to comment again, that really is very very impresive! Kudos on commitment to your cause!
What's the least and what's the most you have spent on a cd player? Does this corrolate with the best and worst quality? What would you say is the best value player in your collection, and what's your favorite?
I really hope you find someone to help you translate your site into English for you I can imagine it would make very interesting Reading!

Come on everyone, someone must know someone who could help this chap translate.. And all you old fuggys with your mag collections - get scanning those old reviews, this chap is obviously commited to this cause and I recon he desurves all the help he can get!

Dint we have some people on this forum who are involved with magazines, could you get old reviews to him? How about getting readers to dig out old reviews?

I bought the players from so many countries. Prices are very different from one to another. For exemple, you can buy a very rare Pioneer P-D90 or NEC CD803, for little money in Japan, whereas a Philips or Marantz player is exorbitantly priced, there.
Anyway, I had to pay 500€ for a Technics SL-P50 (faulty), while I paid 1€ for a AIWA DX-1200, rather similar to very rare DX-1000 (same mecha). I recently bet on a Aiwa DX-1000, which I haven't got, that sold for 1213€, on Ebay!!!!

It's difficult to say which is the best quality. I would say that the players that are still playing CD's are the best! of course. So we can admit that Philips family were the best players, but it's not a scoop!

Toshiba XR-Z90 and clones are quite reliable players while Kyocera DA-01 family, which use the same laser unit are faulty most of the time.

My favourite is probably Luxman D-03, very very rare, which I bought as a faulty player from swiss...and which is in good working order now. ;)

I also love the pioneer P-D1...and many others.

sisore
05-12-2009, 11:25
OK, so you were purely interested in comparing the mechanical engineering employed by several different groups of engineers who were all trying to solve the same (new) problems simultaneously but independantly?

That' exactly what I mean!

I am very puzzled, when I compare the so simple and easy door mechanism used for a Philips CD100 with the complexity of some Japanese equivalents, incuding a hundred parts, using belts and motors. These assemblies resulted in so many failures...

Kris
05-12-2009, 11:46
My favourite Luxman player is the D-500X http://www.thevintageknob.org/LUXMAN/D500XS/D500XS.html

Which makes me ask another question if I may Sisore. Is your collection mostly limited to first generation (except for the Technics console players)? Do you collect anything from the late 80's early 90's?

sisore
05-12-2009, 11:56
My favourite Luxman player is the D-500X http://www.thevintageknob.org/LUXMAN/D500XS/D500XS.html

Which makes me ask another question if I may Sisore. Is your collection mostly limited to first generation (except for the Technics console players)? Do you collect anything from the late 80's early 90's?

Except some players such as Technics SL-P's, as you said, I don't want to buy later generations. It's too many players...and too much money, and I am not really interested in these youger machines.
As for the luxman D500, I think that it' not as well built as first players, and you may not be ok with me, but I think a SL-P1300 is a better machine...
Any way, this luxman is very nice, and I hesitated buying once several years ago from Japan, but I didn't, because I had decided to collect only first and second generations.

Besides, whatever brand may be considered, third generation players are often very simplified and "cheap". Here is the frontier for me.

Rare Bird
05-12-2009, 18:54
I remember one player i used to lust after, it was a Micro Seiki CDM-100, was a beautiful looking player, the woodwork was to die for...simular finish/styling to Marco's spinner.This picture don't do it justice..

http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT1/CDM100/CDM100.html

Beechwoods
05-12-2009, 19:30
I remember one player i used to lust after, it was a Micro Seiki CDM-100, was a beautiful looking player, the woodwork was to die for...simular finish/styling to Marco's spinner.This picture don't do it justice.

Yum yum!

DSJR
05-12-2009, 19:53
My favourite Luxman player is the D-500X http://www.thevintageknob.org/LUXMAN/D500XS/D500XS.html

Which makes me ask another question if I may Sisore. Is your collection mostly limited to first generation (except for the Technics console players)? Do you collect anything from the late 80's early 90's?

Was it really twenty years or so ago when I first saw this player? I nearly wet meself over it and it was almost affordable too, as I was still living at home and still had aome disposeable income. Fat chance now though :(

Luxman in the UK went throughj the roof pricewise after this. Why buy a £3,000 Lux integrated of quality when you could buy a Naim 72/HiCap and 250 for much the same money, or a Linn Kairn/Klout. Who cares if the Lux integrated may whell have blown them away.........

DSJR
05-12-2009, 20:09
I remember one player i used to lust after, it was a Micro Seiki CDM-100, was a beautiful looking player, the woodwork was to die for...simular finish/styling to Marco's spinner.This picture don't do it justice..

http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT1/CDM100/CDM100.html


I was a total tosser ten years or so ago!!! I'd owned my CD-M2 for several years and the friend who sold it to me offered me his CD-M100 for £500 in "as new" condition.

The CD-M100 has larger output transformers on the preferred balanced outs and the display can be turned off as well, which improved things subtly with a wide-open system. The main advantage over my player was this extra weight and extension/power in the bass, although mine has bass weight over other late eighties references like the Sony 555es for example.

My system then was bass-laden and the CD-M100 took it too far. I turned it down and could kick myself now!!!!!! What a pr@t to turn it down - in better nick than mine too.......

Micro-Seiki replaced the '2 and '100 with the CD-X2000, which looked like a piece of lab equipment - all bruched aluminium and a cold blue display. I believe only one was sold in the UK and another mate bought it. The sound was even more refined, but this sample had problems with the mech which Ab Sounds were reluctant to fix satisfactorily. I think Micro-Seiki may have folded shortly after, but cannot be sure.

Rare Bird
05-12-2009, 20:55
I was a total tosser ten years or so ago!!! I'd owned my CD-M2 for several years and the friend who sold it to me offered me his CD-M100 for £500 in "as new" condition.





Dave you can't use that wurd on AOS :lolsign:

Micro Seiki were active well upto early 2000's

Beechwoods
05-12-2009, 21:25
You can if it's Shrove Tuesday :)

sisore
16-12-2009, 20:04
Hi!

I was busy with the "documents" section within my website, these days.

I am searching for vintage CD players magazine reviews, in English language, to add to this section.

I wondered if some of you would take some time to have a look at their archive?

Here is the section in which these documents would take place (only French documents by now):

http://vintage-audio-laser.com/-La-naissance-du-systeme-Compact-#sommaire


Thanks a lot. :)

Rare Bird
17-12-2009, 03:16
Cool got anything on the Sony CDP-557ESD & CDP-X7ESD two my fav Sony machines?

sisore
17-12-2009, 07:37
Hi Andre!

Yes it's ok! anything concerning early or 80's "high end" players such as yours.

Thanks
Any contribution is welcome and the donor's name will be indicated at the bottom of the page.

Sure these English documents would please those visiting my pages, who don't spreak one word of French .

Rare Bird
17-12-2009, 14:20
Hi Andre!

Yes it's ok! anything concerning early or 80's "high end" players such as yours.

Thanks
Any contribution is welcome and the donor's name will be indicated at the bottom of the page.

Sure these English documents would please those visiting my pages, who don't spreak one word of French .

Hi Stan

I don't have the machines no more i was wanting anything on them as i fancy trying locate any of them again.. Don't worry about the French you can easily work things out. Just have patience as Dimnitri told me to do :)

The Grand Wazoo
18-06-2012, 07:33
From The Grave