PDA

View Full Version : User reviews - how many are useful?



break-3
11-03-2009, 21:56
Looking around for inspiration, I started Googling a few brands of which I've not had any experience. I found loads of 'reviews' from buyers who started their spiel with stuff along the lines of 'this is my first high-end...' or 'I've had little experience with other...' and you just have to wonder what the point is. :doh:
Generally they're going to eulogise, because they feel they have to justify their purchase, but also if they've only had experience of something universally acknowledged as inferior, what's the point of telling the world that the new one, which cost ten times as much as the old one, is better? :mental: (Not that I'm saying that high cost means high quality, but I think we'd all agree that, for instance, a NAD PP2 is no match for almost any £200+ phono stage.)
I've got no problem with people saying how impressed/happy they are with new kit - I do it myself - but tagging it as a review can simply be misleading for anyone seeking an informed opinion.
Sorry, rant over. ;)

Beechwoods
11-03-2009, 22:22
You make an interesting point, Simon but I think the argument cuts both ways for me. I really hate reviews that say 'compared with my xxxxx transport and yyyyyy DAC, the sound was unrefined, etc' and you go away and look at xxx transport and yyy DAC and they cost ten grand or something... kit which for me is unrealistically aspirational.

I would never trust a sampling of only one or two reviews - but googling you can get a sense of the overall timbre of opinion. Fanboy essays with little substance aren't very useful, but meaningful comparisons with kit that is in the same ballpark either pricewise or soundwise is useful. There have been some famous discussions here about forums versus printed media, and whether forums can be trusted. My view is that on forums like this you can get a feel for someone's experience and reference points (that's why we like people to say hello in the 'Welcome' forum when they join, and to post up about their systems in the 'Gallery') which enhances the level of trust. Magazines can have very respected and experienced writers, but I know that sometimes those writers polarise their readership by very strong favours towards a particular sound or setup... and there are only so many published opinions out there...

Primalsea
11-03-2009, 22:30
Usually its a case of sum over averages. If you have loads of reviews saying its good then it most likely is. You tend to see re-occuring instances of the same negative points on many user reviews which give you a good idea that some of them are honest. You have to be careful when you can only find a few reviews on something but this tend to be on higher end kit.

break-3
11-03-2009, 22:46
Magazines can have very respected and experienced writers, but I know that sometimes those writers polarise their readership by very strong favours towards a particular sound or setup...

Totally agree with this, although at least they tend to comment on how the sound differs from one product to another. So, with a little experience of that reviewer and one or two pieces of kit they've reviewed, you can judge whether something they don't like would be suited to your tastes and vice versa.
I'm not saying the internet's useless for gauging opinion, just that much of the opinion is uninformed and a lot of it can turn into herd mentality.

Spectral Morn
12-03-2009, 01:26
Totally agree with this, although at least they tend to comment on how the sound differs from one product to another. So, with a little experience of that reviewer and one or two pieces of kit they've reviewed, you can judge whether something they don't like would be suited to your tastes and vice versa.
I'm not saying the internet's useless for gauging opinion, just that much of the opinion is uninformed and a lot of it can turn into herd mentality.

Hi break3

I think what you are saying in this post and your first are fair enough, up to a point. However in regard to the text in bold I would say that this is not really the case now. It used to be very much the case that a reviewer was given the space to offer a fairly expansive write up on a product. When I first got into Audio, back in the mid to late 80's; it was a fairly widespread practice to offer the sort of depth that you mention in your post. However in todays very shallow printed Audio reviews, that is not the case IMHO. Magazines pad out reviews with lots of glossy M&S style photos of numerous views of the product in for review. The text, the thing I buy magazines for is edited within an inch of its life, and frankly says very little about the sound. And space for comparison...well by the time the features are listed there is so little room left, that frankly its not possible to do a basic description of sound never mind comparisons with known references or the reviewers own.

I find this unacceptable, as I buy a magazine to read and learn from the...as you say, many years of listening experience that writer has. In this lowest common denominator world we now live in, editors and publishers have decided to cater to the basic intellect of the titles assumed readers; rather than stretching and truly informing them on how any given product sounds. Go back to 80's and early 90's issues of Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, Hi-Fi News and Record Review to see how it used to be done. In fact back in the day, The Absolute Sound did not even always show a photo of the item in for review. I suppose the thinking was you could always get an info sheet on the item, for the specs, but this would tell you nothing about the items sound. The text was king and the photos less important. This approach is not ideal, a photo would be fine, but not the Audio Porn that we have today. I want to read a review not look at a comic.

With reference to the second point in your post also in bold...because of the reduction in text, it is in my opinion now almost impossible to do what you say. I know about the issues, quirks, agendas, taste of the older reviewers because I grew up with them and got to know them when they were allowed to and given the text room to expand on their thoughts. This gave their readers the space and time to learn about them and learn from them. This just is not the norm now. Hi-Fi + and Hi-Fi World are the only two UK magazines which allow this space, with the former being a better place for this than the latter...for the most part, again in my opinion and to my taste.

To get that kind of space now, you must go to the on-line magazines. The likes of 6 Moons, Positive Feedback, Tone Magazine and Stereo Times being the best with 6 Moons being most like the old Absolute Sounds magazine in style and reviewing approach. The breathing room is given to writers to offer expansive and comparative writing.

Many enthusiasts, however go on-line to seek this sort of detail and to escape the idea of bias in reviews because of the influence of advertising ( not a conspiracy theory I subscribe to for the most part. However it does happen sometimes. I should also point out that on-line magazines are now-days not so lacking in adds either, ummm). The industry both as represented by printed magazines and indeed companies that make the kit have, in these days find themselves lacking the trust and respect of many enthusiasts. Sometimes for genuine reasons...sometimes for imagined ones. This has led to a state where someone looking to buy kit would rather trust the opinion of an unaccountable, faceless person sitting at a PC/Mac keyboard, who may well be a hoaxer or have no clue about what they write about, a very real danger ( those in print do have a degree of accountability and a reputation that can be verified, a point you make as can many on-line reviewers too) . This is both a sad and dangerous state we are in now. However there are many on line who do have the depth of experience to write reviews ( who are truly independent ) that are both informative and entertaining to read and can help the readers reach a conclusion about how kit sounds. Thus helping them to make/justify the time to go and hear that kit both in a demo room and at home.

Magazines in my opinion need to go back to fundamentals and start being about depth and less about shallow glossy audio porn. They need to win back the trust of the enthusiasts they used to write for and inform. However it may be to late in the day now to do this. Many now prefer to get their info on line. I for one am a huge fan of the printed media, books etc and I don't want to see the death of the PRINTED word; but it is looking increasingly like this will die as it is also looking like music as physical media will also vanish..for the most part. However Just because information is free does not always mean its worthless or worth something either. Readers must still engage their brains, and seek out the fully qualified information that can be found.

Here on The Art of Sound we have a section called Strokes of Genius in which members can post reviews, and it is my desire and goal to help make this one of the best on-line sources for reviews that can be informative, entertaining and above all free. You are of course welcome to post any reviews there, as can any other member of the forum. I would encourage you all to do so.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)

break-3
12-03-2009, 07:07
Thanks for the reply, Neil. It was actually never my opinion to assert that printed magazines are a better resource than the web - I apologise if that's how it's come across. I would apply my point about 'known' reviewers to online resources as well as print. I agree that some of the dedicated online review sites are great, and a really interesting read, even though they don't review nearly as much kit as I'd like to see. With the decline of printed media, that's almost certainly going to be the future for those of us seeking specialist knowledge. Shame, as I love a proper print magazine.

aquapiranha
12-03-2009, 13:12
I think it is easy to accept what you read, but they ONLY way to tell if you like something is to try it in YOUR system not someone elses, even if they have essentially the same gear the room will be different. You have to take a chance and if you don't like it then you can always sell it on.....